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 jy2 wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:

Don't limit the detachments. Instead limit the factions you are allowed to play. I think this is where most people get hung up on. Your bugs couldn't summon daemons then. Try unlimited detachments, but a hard lock on only one faction allowed per player. Then the mythical cheese beast loses his teeth.

That's going to cause even more of an uproar. So no CSM + Daemons? No Eldar + Dark Eldar? No GK's + Space Marines? Man, I'm not going down that rabbit-hole!




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 Jancoran wrote:
his thread is crazy long. Good lawd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
I don't think many players would be happy about completely losing allies this far into the game.

If they banned the allies matrix tomorrow, I'd be fine with it.

Actually, I'd be fine with it also. I'm more of a purist and wouldn't mind strolling down 5th Edition memory lane.

Of course we all know that isn't going to fly with most gamers, not after all the time and money they've invested into their "Secondary" armies. Once you give someone a taste of the good stuff, it's going to be damn hard to get him to stop. #plasticcrack

GK and Marines are the same faction right? So they could still ally together.

How much Eldar does Frankie have in his DE lists?? It's not like these factions can not stand on their own. Instead of using other allies to solve problems, people will have to use formations and detachments within their own faction. It keeps servo skulls out of Tyranid lists. It keeps farseers from summoning Daemons off of Tyranid Warp Charges. It eliminates a lot of what people imagine the worst of 40k is right now.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

tag8833 wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:
Don't limit the detachments. Instead limit the factions you are allowed to play. I think this is where most people get hung up on. Your bugs couldn't summon daemons then. Try unlimited detachments, but a hard lock on only one faction allowed per player. Then the mythical cheese beast loses his teeth.

I'm not thrilled with that as a solution either. It promotes even more spam, i.e. even more unbalanced lists and Rock-Paper-40k.

I think it would be simpler to have unlocking detachments (before you can take a 2nd HS, you must take an Elite and FA), Percentage limits, or Rarity classification. My favorite idea is Douche points, but that is politically untenable in the foreseeable future. Honestly there are thousands of ways to fix the mess that is army Comp.

I disagree. I do not think it increases spam, but instead will reduce it. A player could not spam the two best units from two separate factions (Eldar and Tau) which might compliment each other weaknesses. Now if Eldar just spam their own best unit, they run into more problems with a hard counter. This will eliminate that type of spamming, at least from someone trying to win best general.

I think a one faction rule will allow TAC lists (which are notoriously un-spammy) to thrive again.

DarthDiggler wrote:


GK and Marines are the same faction right? So they could still ally together.

How much Eldar does Frankie have in his DE lists?? It's not like these factions can not stand on their own. Instead of using other allies to solve problems, people will have to use formations and detachments within their own faction. It keeps servo skulls out of Tyranid lists. It keeps farseers from summoning Daemons off of Tyranid Warp Charges. It eliminates a lot of what people imagine the worst of 40k is right now.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

tag8833 wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:
Don't limit the detachments. Instead limit the factions you are allowed to play. I think this is where most people get hung up on. Your bugs couldn't summon daemons then. Try unlimited detachments, but a hard lock on only one faction allowed per player. Then the mythical cheese beast loses his teeth.

I'm not thrilled with that as a solution either. It promotes even more spam, i.e. even more unbalanced lists and Rock-Paper-40k.

I think it would be simpler to have unlocking detachments (before you can take a 2nd HS, you must take an Elite and FA), Percentage limits, or Rarity classification. My favorite idea is Douche points, but that is politically untenable in the foreseeable future. Honestly there are thousands of ways to fix the mess that is army Comp.

I disagree. I do not think it increases spam, but instead will reduce it. A player could not spam the two best units from two separate factions (Eldar and Tau) which might compliment each other weaknesses. Now if Eldar just spam their own best unit, they run into more problems with a hard counter. This will eliminate that type of spamming, at least from someone trying to win best general.

I think a one faction rule will allow TAC lists (which are notoriously un-spammy) to thrive again.

That rule would favor Imperial armies to a ridiculous extent, as Imperials are the only "faction" in the galaxy that have like 10 different codexes to choose from. Every other faction would be limited to one codex (or codex + supplement in the case of Iyanden/Farsight Enclaves lists). I can't really see this as anything other than a pro IOM rule.

Maybe this discussion would be better off else where?

Okay so, I used a Crone last night and was pretty underwhelmed. This was probably down in no small part to me thinking it could launch 4 missles + vect strike in one turn, when in fact it can fire 2 missles or 1 and vector strike. With its potential for anti air/armour much lesser than what I expected, I just wanted to ask how others tend to play it?

Benlisted wrote:
Okay so, I used a Crone last night and was pretty underwhelmed. This was probably down in no small part to me thinking it could launch 4 missles + vect strike in one turn, when in fact it can fire 2 missles or 1 and vector strike. With its potential for anti air/armour much lesser than what I expected, I just wanted to ask how others tend to play it?

What else did you have in your list?

At the moment I'm loving 3 Flyrants, Skytyrant and 2 Crones. Crones thrive off redundancy in my experience.

It's as Eldercaveman said, multiples work best.

It's good for taking on Flyers and FMC's and let's your Flyrants do damage on the ground or to mulch Xenos infantry.

 Frozocrone wrote:
It's as Eldercaveman said, multiples work best.

It's good for taking on Flyers and FMC's and let's your Flyrants do damage on the ground or to mulch Xenos infantry.

It's also really useful in mirror matches.

Eldercaveman wrote:

Benlisted wrote:
Okay so, I used a Crone last night and was pretty underwhelmed. This was probably down in no small part to me thinking it could launch 4 missles + vect strike in one turn, when in fact it can fire 2 missles or 1 and vector strike. With its potential for anti air/armour much lesser than what I expected, I just wanted to ask how others tend to play it?

What else did you have in your list?

At the moment I'm loving 3 Flyrants, Skytyrant and 2 Crones. Crones thrive off redundancy in my experience.

Well I guess that's part of the issue, I'm testing a Highlander list, so 1 Flyrant, 1 Crone! I guess that changes things, but I can certainly see the value in it with more fliers.

Benlisted wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

Benlisted wrote:
Okay so, I used a Crone last night and was pretty underwhelmed. This was probably down in no small part to me thinking it could launch 4 missles + vect strike in one turn, when in fact it can fire 2 missles or 1 and vector strike. With its potential for anti air/armour much lesser than what I expected, I just wanted to ask how others tend to play it?

What else did you have in your list?

At the moment I'm loving 3 Flyrants, Skytyrant and 2 Crones. Crones thrive off redundancy in my experience.

Well I guess that's part of the issue, I'm testing a Highlander list, so 1 Flyrant, 1 Crone! I guess that changes things, but I can certainly see the value in it with more fliers.

Yeah Crones will struggle in Highlander, are you testing it against other Highlander lists?

What's the Highlander event you are testing for?

Which list do I choose for a 1500 point tourney mission will be maelstrom or standard mission or a mix we don’t know. I expect something like the ETC missions.
I was going to take my space wolves but with a busy social life they aren’t ready so I’m going back to my nids who I’ve done reasonably well with.
However, I haven’t played nids for about six months so don’t have any of the new models so I don’t have DImachaeron, Muclids, Barbed Heirodule, Malanthrope, or Tyrannocytes, (after the new codex came out I move house twice and threw out my old spore pods ).
Apart from a harpy I have every unit in the codex.

So which list is best?

List 1, Hive Guard have always done well for m, as t6 and impaler cannons surprise opponents, I know they aren’t top tier. Idea is to have air superiorty backed up with shooting from the fexes and hive guard, gaunts bubble wrap and tarpit and ripper swarms deep strike onto objectives.
HQ.
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Electroshock grubs, Twin liked devourers with brain leech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. Level 2 psycher, Warlord. 240
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Electroshock grubs, Twin liked devourers with brain leech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. Level 2 psycher, 240

Elites
Venomthrope 45
2 Zoanthropes, 100
3 Hive Guard Impaler cannons 165

Troops
30 Termagants, Fleshborers, 120
3 ripper swarms, deep strike, 45
3 ripper swarms, deep strike, 45
3 ripper swarms, deep strike, 45

Fast attack
Hive Crone, 155

Heavy Support
2 x Carnifex, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. 300

Total points 1500

List 2. Probably more mobile with lictor and Mawloc, Mawloc has never done very well for me before but he is a big psychological threat. I think this list would be much stronger for the maelstorm games.
HQ.
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Electroshock grubs, Twin liked devourers with brain leech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. Level 2 psycher, Warlord. 240
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Electroshock grubs, Twin liked devourers with brain leech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. Level 2 psycher, 240

Elites
Venomthrope 45
2 Zoanthropes, 100
Lictor 50

Troops
20 Termagants, Fleshborers, 80
15 Termagants, fleshborers 60
3 ripper swarms, deep strike 45
3 ripper swarms, deep strike 45

Fast attack
Hive Crone, 155

Heavy Support
2 x Carnifex, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. 300
Mawloc 140

Total points 1500

Eldercaveman wrote:

Benlisted wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

Benlisted wrote:
Okay so, I used a Crone last night and was pretty underwhelmed. This was probably down in no small part to me thinking it could launch 4 missles + vect strike in one turn, when in fact it can fire 2 missles or 1 and vector strike. With its potential for anti air/armour much lesser than what I expected, I just wanted to ask how others tend to play it?

What else did you have in your list?

At the moment I'm loving 3 Flyrants, Skytyrant and 2 Crones. Crones thrive off redundancy in my experience.

Well I guess that's part of the issue, I'm testing a Highlander list, so 1 Flyrant, 1 Crone! I guess that changes things, but I can certainly see the value in it with more fliers.

Yeah Crones will struggle in Highlander, are you testing it against other Highlander lists?

What's the Highlander event you are testing for?

A 1500pt one with some heavy restrictions: no more than 1 of each troop, no formations, one CAD only + allies, 2 sources max. There is no first blood but you instead get points for denying StW and Linebreaker. It's actually been very difficult to write a solid list... I'm going with:

Flyrant, 2x TL Devs, Wings, E-grubs
Deathleaper (WL)

5 Genestealers
1 Mucolid

1 Venomthrope
3 Zoanthropes (1 Neuro)

6 Shrikes (RC/ST and either AG or FH, not decided)
6 Raveners (RC)
Crone

Carnifex, 2x TL-Devs
Tyrannocyte (normally for Zoans)

I'm uncertain on the Zoans, Fex and Crone (and Deathleaper to an extent) - the aim of the list is to get up in my opponent's face and overload them with threats, which it does quite well, but the listed units have been underperforming a little. I need to playtest more.

Benlisted wrote:
Okay so, I used a Crone last night and was pretty underwhelmed. This was probably down in no small part to me thinking it could launch 4 missles + vect strike in one turn, when in fact it can fire 2 missles or 1 and vector strike. With its potential for anti air/armour much lesser than what I expected, I just wanted to ask how others tend to play it?

Well, it is not a Super unit...it works best in pairs. It's golden age was way back when folks could only get a couple of Tyrants into a list, so the short comings were more tolerable.

That being said it can be very good, Haywire is one of the few dependable Anti armor (AV 13+) we have, and even with the nurfs, a S8 vector strike is still dang nice. Add in a acid spray and you have a monster that can do work in all phases of the game.

I find them a mite overpriced. but they are still more likely to contribute than a Harpy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

hivefleethannibal wrote:
Which list do I choose for a 1500 point tourney mission will be maelstrom or standard mission or a mix we don’t know. I expect something like the ETC missions.
I was going to take my space wolves but with a busy social life they aren’t ready so I’m going back to my nids who I’ve done reasonably well with.
However, I haven’t played nids for about six months so don’t have any of the new models so I don’t have DImachaeron, Muclids, Barbed Heirodule, Malanthrope, or Tyrannocytes, (after the new codex came out I move house twice and threw out my old spore pods ).
Apart from a harpy I have every unit in the codex.

So which list is best?

List 1, Hive Guard have always done well for m, as t6 and impaler cannons surprise opponents, I know they aren’t top tier. Idea is to have air superiorty backed up with shooting from the fexes and hive guard, gaunts bubble wrap and tarpit and ripper swarms deep strike onto objectives.
HQ.
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Electroshock grubs, Twin liked devourers with brain leech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. Level 2 psycher, Warlord. 240
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Electroshock grubs, Twin liked devourers with brain leech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. Level 2 psycher, 240

Elites
Venomthrope 45
2 Zoanthropes, 100
3 Hive Guard Impaler cannons 165

Troops
30 Termagants, Fleshborers, 120
3 ripper swarms, deep strike, 45
3 ripper swarms, deep strike, 45
3 ripper swarms, deep strike, 45

Fast attack
Hive Crone, 155

Heavy Support
2 x Carnifex, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. 300

Total points 1500

List 2. Probably more mobile with lictor and Mawloc, Mawloc has never done very well for me before but he is a big psychological threat. I think this list would be much stronger for the maelstorm games.
HQ.
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Electroshock grubs, Twin liked devourers with brain leech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. Level 2 psycher, Warlord. 240
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Electroshock grubs, Twin liked devourers with brain leech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. Level 2 psycher, 240

Elites
Venomthrope 45
2 Zoanthropes, 100
Lictor 50

Troops
20 Termagants, Fleshborers, 80
15 Termagants, fleshborers 60
3 ripper swarms, deep strike 45
3 ripper swarms, deep strike 45

Fast attack
Hive Crone, 155

Heavy Support
2 x Carnifex, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. 300
Mawloc 140

Total points 1500

I like list two, because I like Mawloc, though I would swap one Brood of Termagants for Hormagaunts. But that is a "style" thing. List one I think I would trim one Hive Guard, and some Termagants and grab a Mawloc...

Something i found fun in a small game (Maelstrom league, escalation)...

Dropping a Tervigon in a nidsack.

You all of a sudden have a pair of monstrous creatures and a small swarm of gants to eat up space on the board. A great way to cover multiple objectives.

A quick question for those of you who are using the SkyTyrant Swarm formation (Hive Tyrant + Gargoyles).

How do you handle the love-hate relationship of Gargoyles and terrain? By this I mean that Gargoyles have such a crappy armour save, they really want to be in terrain to increase their survivability. But being Jump Infantry, this means that each model needs to take a dangerous terrain test when *ending* its move in terrain, and also when *starting* its move in terrain.

Realistically that would mean that each Gargoyle has about a 13% chance of dying to terrain every time it moves. And with a footprint as big as that Swarm, it's not unrealistic to think that the unit won't clear some terrain pieces in one go, and thus need multiple tests.

It would seem that you lose a lot of Gargoyles that way, just by moving. So how do you guys handle this? Do you avoid terrain, and rely on a 5+ cover save from Malanthropes? Or do you hug terrain anyway, and accept the inevitable losses?

cheers

Sam

Polkadragon wrote:
A quick question for those of you who are using the SkyTyrant Swarm formation (Hive Tyrant + Gargoyles).

How do you handle the love-hate relationship of Gargoyles and terrain? By this I mean that Gargoyles have such a crappy armour save, they really want to be in terrain to increase their survivability. But being Jump Infantry, this means that each model needs to take a dangerous terrain test when *ending* its move in terrain, and also when *starting* its move in terrain.

Realistically that would mean that each Gargoyle has about a 13% chance of dying to terrain every time it moves. And with a footprint as big as that Swarm, it's not unrealistic to think that the unit won't clear some terrain pieces in one go, and thus need multiple tests.

It would seem that you lose a lot of Gargoyles that way, just by moving. So how do you guys handle this? Do you avoid terrain, and rely on a 5+ cover save from Malanthropes? Or do you hug terrain anyway, and accept the inevitable losses?

cheers

Sam

When possible, take intervening Terrain over area with Gargoyles. Also, don't put the entire unit in terrain, just the front 8-9. If he's punching through that many 2/3++ cover saves (assuming a Malanthrope) then he isn't shooting much at anything else. Finally, you can land your gargoyles right in front of terrain and then run them in, meaning you only have to take a test to leave, not to enter.

Hey guys! I tried Nids back early in 7th, but I had to stop 40k for a bit. (Excuse my noob questions, I like Nids but don't much about them)

I had a real hard time dealing with AV12/13/14 with our standard Flyrant, Devourers, eGrubs, Dakkafex lists.
Has things changed? I understand eGrubs is a good way to deal with it but it's not 100% chance to take off HP. And in the end your only running 2 or 3 Flyrants in a list for 2-3 eGrubs chances... How do you vet nid players deal with AV12-14 consistently? Wave Serpents even... ugh >_< Such a PITA

Also, how do you deal with the likes of MCs like Wraithknights spams or Triptide? Is the answer shoot them a lot? Our S6 vs T8 of a Wraithknight doesn't seem very efficient... thoughts on this as well?

Looking forward to your answers! I'm trying to get back into 40k and trying to decide on what army to start up. My meta is pretty competitive and would like to be able to roll with the top armies like White Scars, Eldar, Daemons/CSM and Tau that keep placing up there.


TLDR:
1) How do standard Nid lists deal with AV12/13/14 reliably? Wave Serpents spam too?
2) How to deal with MCs like Nurgle Daemons, Wraithknights and to a lesser extent TripTide?

Polkadragon wrote:
A quick question for those of you who are using the SkyTyrant Swarm formation (Hive Tyrant + Gargoyles).

How do you handle the love-hate relationship of Gargoyles and terrain? By this I mean that Gargoyles have such a crappy armour save, they really want to be in terrain to increase their survivability. But being Jump Infantry, this means that each model needs to take a dangerous terrain test when *ending* its move in terrain, and also when *starting* its move in terrain.

Realistically that would mean that each Gargoyle has about a 13% chance of dying to terrain every time it moves. And with a footprint as big as that Swarm, it's not unrealistic to think that the unit won't clear some terrain pieces in one go, and thus need multiple tests.

It would seem that you lose a lot of Gargoyles that way, just by moving. So how do you guys handle this? Do you avoid terrain, and rely on a 5+ cover save from Malanthropes? Or do you hug terrain anyway, and accept the inevitable losses?

cheers

Sam

I tend to stay in the open, every shot at a Gargoyle is a shot that did not go vs my Tyrant. The whole point (IMHO) of the Gargoyles is to take wounds for the Tyrant. I don't care if it is direct fire, or "look out M'ams!"

pinecone77 wrote:

Polkadragon wrote:
A quick question for those of you who are using the SkyTyrant Swarm formation (Hive Tyrant + Gargoyles).

How do you handle the love-hate relationship of Gargoyles and terrain? By this I mean that Gargoyles have such a crappy armour save, they really want to be in terrain to increase their survivability. But being Jump Infantry, this means that each model needs to take a dangerous terrain test when *ending* its move in terrain, and also when *starting* its move in terrain.

Realistically that would mean that each Gargoyle has about a 13% chance of dying to terrain every time it moves. And with a footprint as big as that Swarm, it's not unrealistic to think that the unit won't clear some terrain pieces in one go, and thus need multiple tests.

It would seem that you lose a lot of Gargoyles that way, just by moving. So how do you guys handle this? Do you avoid terrain, and rely on a 5+ cover save from Malanthropes? Or do you hug terrain anyway, and accept the inevitable losses?

cheers

Sam

I tend to stay in the open, every shot at a Gargoyle is a shot that did not go vs my Tyrant. The whole point (IMHO) of the Gargoyles is to take wounds for the Tyrant. I don't care if it is direct fire, or "look out M'ams!"

Could you not put the Hive Tyrant at the front, and jink when he is shot at, for a 2+ cover save with Malonthrope support?

 syypher wrote:
1) How do standard Nid lists deal with AV12/13/14 reliably? Wave Serpents spam too?

Option #1: Barbed Heirodule. He solves problems that other tyranid units really can't.
***** Big Gap *****
Option #2: Crones. S8 Vector Strike + Haywire missiles.
Option #3: Flyrants. E.Grubs and Warp Lance
***** Big Gap *****
Option #4: Carnifexes or Dimachaerons in Assault.

It just got worse playing 'nids on account of Necron becoming AV:13 all the way around. Annihilation barges went up to 120 points, but they are still autotake, and Necron lists should try to spam as many of them as possible. Thankfully, they now lose tesla if snapshooting, so they won't be plucking our flier out of the air quite as easily.

 syypher wrote:
2) How to deal with MCs like Nurgle Daemons, Wraithknights and to a lesser extent TripTide?[/b]

Option #1: Barbed Heirodule. Once again, solving problems that other Tyaniids don't. Riptides and Dreadknights are still a problem, but other MC's go down fairly easily.
***** Big Gap *****
Option #2: Flyrants. Weight of Fire + psychic scream and Warp Lance. Its not great, but its what we have.
Option #3: Tarpit. 20 Gargoyles work well for this. Stick them on there, and neutralize the threat for a while.
***** Big Gap *****
Option #4: Dimachaerons in Assault. They can kill MC's in assault, but most of those MC's can kill them right back, and without Grenades, they are a risky proposition.
Option #5: Dakkafexes. Weight of Fire.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldercaveman wrote:
Could you not put the Hive Tyrant at the front, and jink when he is shot at, for a 2+ cover save with Malonthrope support?

With only 4 wounds that is a dangerous proposition.

Eldercaveman wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

Polkadragon wrote:
A quick question for those of you who are using the SkyTyrant Swarm formation (Hive Tyrant + Gargoyles).

How do you handle the love-hate relationship of Gargoyles and terrain? By this I mean that Gargoyles have such a crappy armour save, they really want to be in terrain to increase their survivability. But being Jump Infantry, this means that each model needs to take a dangerous terrain test when *ending* its move in terrain, and also when *starting* its move in terrain.

Realistically that would mean that each Gargoyle has about a 13% chance of dying to terrain every time it moves. And with a footprint as big as that Swarm, it's not unrealistic to think that the unit won't clear some terrain pieces in one go, and thus need multiple tests.

It would seem that you lose a lot of Gargoyles that way, just by moving. So how do you guys handle this? Do you avoid terrain, and rely on a 5+ cover save from Malanthropes? Or do you hug terrain anyway, and accept the inevitable losses?

cheers

Sam

Sure! I just consider the point of having the Gargoyles as taking wounds, so I don't put much effort into protecting them. The best way to kill the Tyrant is volume of fire...if somebody is fool enough to shoot the Gargoyles first...well I'm pleased to let them. My problem is when I am cheerful while removing them, and grinning, they tend to "get wise" So I need to work on my poker face.



I tend to stay in the open, every shot at a Gargoyle is a shot that did not go vs my Tyrant. The whole point (IMHO) of the Gargoyles is to take wounds for the Tyrant. I don't care if it is direct fire, or "look out M'ams!"

Could you not put the Hive Tyrant at the front, and jink when he is shot at, for a 2+ cover save with Malonthrope support?

Hmmm...sorry my reply is up mixed into the quote...

tag8833 wrote:

It just got worse playing 'nids on account of Necron becoming AV:13 all the way around. Annihilation barges went up to 120 points, but they are still autotake, and Necron lists should try to spam as many of them as possible. Thankfully, they now lose tesla if snapshooting, so they won't be plucking our flier out of the air quite as easily.

With all the other buffs to the other units, I'm not sure they are still autotake.

 Tyran wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

It just got worse playing 'nids on account of Necron becoming AV:13 all the way around. Annihilation barges went up to 120 points, but they are still autotake, and Necron lists should try to spam as many of them as possible. Thankfully, they now lose tesla if snapshooting, so they won't be plucking our flier out of the air quite as easily.

With all the other buffs to the other units, I'm not sure they are still autotake.

Also, to be fair, the Annihilation Barges have been confirmed not to have rear armor 13. The rumormonger made a mistake and clarified it later, but Quantum Shielding is the exact same as before.

Now, onto killing heavy armor: Flyrants hitting rear/side armor are our most common option, but the Barbed Heirodule is good too. Worth mentioning, in addition to all of the above, is Zoeys in a Pod. I personally wouldn't take it, but it should be mentioned. But, ignoring and killing other things is always effective, as these kinds of units usually put out less damage for their points than other units because they are paying extra for toughness. Ignore that wraithknight, kill those Guardians!

Thank you guys! As usual the Hives support is great (I use to be a Nid player when I first got into 40k way back in 5th )

Another question... What do competitive Nid lists look like now a days? What do they have in them? I know there might be many ways to do a good list but things get streamlined after a while as to whats top tier, great, good, bad, don't take usually. I'd like to start looking around for deals on models and a good competitive list can be a good base for me to start with!

Thanks!

 syypher wrote:
Thank you guys! As usual the Hives support is great (I use to be a Nid player when I first got into 40k way back in 5th )

Another question... What do competitive Nid lists look like now a days? What do they have in them? I know there might be many ways to do a good list but things get streamlined after a while as to whats top tier, great, good, bad, don't take usually. I'd like to start looking around for deals on models and a good competitive list can be a good base for me to start with!

Thanks!

Pretty much all the units have reviews in the original post by jy2 so you can get a sense of whats good and bad.

Generally, Flyrants and Malanthrope/Venomthrope are auto-takes (you could build an army on Flyrants like Serpentspam and still do well).

 Frozocrone wrote:

 syypher wrote:
Thank you guys! As usual the Hives support is great (I use to be a Nid player when I first got into 40k way back in 5th )

Another question... What do competitive Nid lists look like now a days? What do they have in them? I know there might be many ways to do a good list but things get streamlined after a while as to whats top tier, great, good, bad, don't take usually. I'd like to start looking around for deals on models and a good competitive list can be a good base for me to start with!

Thanks!

Pretty much all the units have reviews in the original post by jy2 so you can get a sense of whats good and bad.

Generally, Flyrants and Malanthrope/Venomthrope are auto-takes (you could build an army on Flyrants like Serpentspam and still do well).

Serpents can super score though and their payload too. Do nids forgo their troops choices usually?

Dunno how much you guys are keeping up with the cron thread, but quantum shielding is unchanged, it's not all sides as was initially reported.

Those wraiths though...that's just dirty. They make me feel funny, and I like it.

 syypher wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 syypher wrote:
Thank you guys! As usual the Hives support is great (I use to be a Nid player when I first got into 40k way back in 5th )

Another question... What do competitive Nid lists look like now a days? What do they have in them? I know there might be many ways to do a good list but things get streamlined after a while as to whats top tier, great, good, bad, don't take usually. I'd like to start looking around for deals on models and a good competitive list can be a good base for me to start with!

Thanks!

Pretty much all the units have reviews in the original post by jy2 so you can get a sense of whats good and bad.

Generally, Flyrants and Malanthrope/Venomthrope are auto-takes (you could build an army on Flyrants like Serpentspam and still do well).

Serpents can super score though and their payload too. Do nids forgo their troops choices usually?

Either they use the 15pt Mucolid minimum troops, or take several broods of Rippers oddly enough. For maelstrom Hormagaunts are also good scoring units just because of how fast they can travel and be objective secured.

 syypher wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 syypher wrote:
Thank you guys! As usual the Hives support is great (I use to be a Nid player when I first got into 40k way back in 5th )

Another question... What do competitive Nid lists look like now a days? What do they have in them? I know there might be many ways to do a good list but things get streamlined after a while as to whats top tier, great, good, bad, don't take usually. I'd like to start looking around for deals on models and a good competitive list can be a good base for me to start with!

Thanks!

Pretty much all the units have reviews in the original post by jy2 so you can get a sense of whats good and bad.

Generally, Flyrants and Malanthrope/Venomthrope are auto-takes (you could build an army on Flyrants like Serpentspam and still do well).

Serpents can super score though and their payload too. Do nids forgo their troops choices usually?

That's a play style preference. Some like DS Rippers to get Objectives, some like Mucolids as they are dirt cheap, some like swarming the board with Hormagaunts and Termagants (Devourers)...whatever you play. Even a Tervigon if you so wish.

Personally I'm all for the big bugs, so I use Rippers in CAD as they get OS, Mucolids in Hive Fleet Detachment (fills up Troops for 45 points).

 gigasnail wrote:
Dunno how much you guys are keeping up with the cron thread, but quantum shielding is unchanged, it's not all sides as was initially reported.

Those wraiths though...that's just dirty. They make me feel funny, and I like it.

Haha I know right?! This isn't the thread for it, but wraithwing is BACK baby! Not that I ever left it haha. Definitely not so sure that barges are as auto-take as they once were. Jinking is now a real decision that actually greatly lowers damage output.

Back to Nids, I was able to attend a local rtt this past weekend down in Somerville, NJ and man was it a blast! I filled in at the last moment for someone else due to the inclement weather and I'm really glad I did. It was labeled as a LVO prep tournament and I believe it! I played against serpent spam in the first round, daemons allied with leviathan in the second round, and against Nick Nanavati in the finals (apologies if I've butchered his name). Also got to meet Sean Nayden and see his updated #lictorshame list firsthand (beautifully-painted army by the way).

Though I'm not attending the LVO this year, I would definitely bring the list that I brought here if I was, which was: (in shorthand)

4 Flyrants
3 mucolids
5 single Lictor squads
Malanthrope
Bastion w/comms
2 Mawlocs
3 DS ripper squads

A quick recap of the games I played:

First round was against a new player running 5 serpents and a wraithknight (I know he had other stuff but I can't recall what), and we had less time to play because we arrived late and were sticking to the schedule, but he did manage to seize on me and get first blood on one of my hive tyrants through 2+ cover (what is cover, Eldar ask?). However, Flyrants really do just get exponentially better the more of them you take because they can just murder everything. Even wave serpents as long as you don't roll ones (which I didn't do a great job of tbh but it worked out well enough). Took the game 8-1 using the BAO missions, which will also be used at the LVO.

Second round against the Daemons/Nids player was odd because I just couldn't forge the narrative. Why are Flyrants shooting at Flyrants?? Both of our dice were hot early so first blood wasn't managed until bottom of 3 (seriously) but I finally got it and took that game 9-1. He didn't start summoning early enough to keep up with the maelstrom objectives I was pumping out and it was the scouring so he conceded at the bottom of 4. Fateweaver did manage to stay off the board enough to avoid giving up warlord. So sneaky!

Last round was against Nick and man his list was nuts. It was pure Daemons and I won't spoil it because I don't think he'll change much for the LVO but man. I was never left with a good decision and I messed up in a key situation late game, thinking that horrors that he had were summoned rather than his actual OS troops, plus forgetting that I could Mawloc my own guys to end a combat early enough to kill off his guys. Definitely could have been able to tie if I had played that right, but that's what happens when you go up against a GT winner. A mistake or two will cost you. Still a great game and had a blast. Didn't wind up placing due to battle points, but it was a great time nonetheless.

4 Flyrants
3 mucolids
5 single Lictor squads
Malanthrope
Bastion w/comms
2 Mawlocs
3 DS ripper squads

Does that come out to 1850? Seems short.