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I can agree on a lot of those points. Honestly, Pentyrant IS better, it just feels so wrong. But Pentyrant + Deathleaper brood sounds fun, and dropping a mawloc can easily become a large Gargoyle brood or what have you.

But is 4 any less evil than 5? Meh.

 Iechine wrote:
I can agree on a lot of those points. Honestly, Pentyrant IS better, it just feels so wrong. But Pentyrant + Deathleaper brood sounds fun, and dropping a mawloc can easily become a large Gargoyle brood or what have you.

But is 4 any less evil than 5? Meh.

Am I missing something that's good about the Deathleaper brood without Mawlocs? I know it provides MSU which is great to compliment all the Flyrants but all those Lictors should be pretty easy to take out right? And correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the Lictors are Obsec right?

Not trying to say it's bad, just that I don't understand the reason to put it in with Pentyrants other than to provide MSU scoring but non-obsec. Is that reason alone good enough?

Xyptc wrote:
Has anyone fiddled around with starting a Mawloc on the field on T1, burrowing T2 and getting a guaranteed strike on T3?

If you place it in cover (and with Shrouding) but also somewhere tempting then it might draw a bit of fire (and with its resilience it does take a fair bit to put down) for a turn or two from an opponent who would rather get rid of it than let it strike at will later. It doesn't matter if it has 6W or 1W when it starts digging, so it could be a means of having an opponent split their fire and perhaps prolong a Tyrant's life a bit?

The trade-off of course is that you lose the chance of a T2 strike (but you do also take the randomness of Reserves rolls out of the picture entirely so... more reliable but a little slower to start?).

Given that without any reserves manupulators you have a 66% chance that it comes in on turn 2 and a 89% chance that it comes in on turn 2 or three....I mean that's not a trade off I'd like to make. Why give up odds that are already in your favor to gain 10% more certainty? Plus Tyranids really do need reserves manipulators unless you just have a unit or two (or they're like outflanking Genestealers are you're ok with them coming in on turn 2 or 4)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 syypher wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
I can agree on a lot of those points. Honestly, Pentyrant IS better, it just feels so wrong. But Pentyrant + Deathleaper brood sounds fun, and dropping a mawloc can easily become a large Gargoyle brood or what have you.

But is 4 any less evil than 5? Meh.

Am I missing something that's good about the Deathleaper brood without Mawlocs? I know it provides MSU which is great to compliment all the Flyrants but all those Lictors should be pretty easy to take out right? And correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the Lictors are Obsec right?

Not trying to say it's bad, just that I don't understand the reason to put it in with Pentyrants other than to provide MSU scoring but non-obsec. Is that reason alone good enough?

The reason why lictors are good basically boils down to this:

If they can sit in cover, you are pretty happy with their durability. They will usually either require a ton more points than 50 to remove them from the table, so that is a victory in and of itself. They can go to ground and synapse pop back up next turn. They are highly mobile, have a ton of attacks, actually hit at initiative when charging through terrain, and can shred light infantry.

The reason why lictors are bad basically boils down to this:

Ignores cover is a thing. And means a dead Lictor. And a kill point if it is a solo Lictor.


However, if you have reserves manipulation (which with DLAB you almost certainly need) then you can have them come in when you want (and always where you want of course). Sometimes giving up a Lictor or two so that his three surviving friends can destroy that wave serpent/kill those obsec troops is absolutely worthwhile. Although they aren't as hardy as we might like, they are still able to perform high level surgical strikes. Can they get out alive? Not likely, but something that I've been realizing more lately is that 40k is a lot like chess sometimes. You have to sacrifice pieces in order to move towards the end game in a beneficial fashion.

The rule of single model units that is king: I have 5 models standing next to each other. Which one model would your 50 man guard blob like to shoot at? Ok cool. The other 4 will do as they please next turn.

Good luck to everyone at tournaments this weekend, we should have some interesting feedback coming back over the next few days!

Ok guys, the wait is over. The tournament is here and the army I will be running at the LVO will be:

Yar. Exactly what I wanted to see most.

Good luck jy2!

Tasty.

Best of luck Nid players

 jy2 wrote:

Ok guys, the wait is over. The tournament is here and the army I will be running at the LVO will be:

Spoiler:

Huzzah! Good luck, and good hunting!

GOOD LUCK JY2!!!!

Make sure to take pics for batreps!! (If time allows )

I guess for the LVO/ITC format with Maelstorm as secondary, nids/mass flyrants can be strong. But I feel and sometimes wonder if a maelstorm primary format, is very bad for nids in general since we have to be on the ground to score, and mass flyrants tend to be lacking in the ground presence department.

 jy2 wrote:

Ok guys, the wait is over. The tournament is here and the army I will be running at the LVO will be:

Spoiler:

Sweeeet. Although I was kind of partial to the Fluff Killahs.

Good luck! Bring one home for the Hive Mind!

Panic stations.

What do we do against Wolfstars?

Eldercaveman wrote:
Panic stations.

What do we do against Wolfstars?

Go second, stay in the air (assuming FMC spam), and kill everything else I imagine. Might be a little tougher for barbed heirodule lists, but i feel like all that S10 shooting should at least put a dent in it. Although an EW character up front might be problematic. Still flyrants are mobile enough to bypass tanks and can start putting wounds on the normal dudes

Thoughts on how to deal with a standard tournament Chaos Daemon summoning army with JY2's Pentyrant list? I've never faced it myself (just having gotten into 40k again) but my bud was telling me about it. 2+ invul on one of their characters, some of the FMCs being T8, their Vector strike being more efficient against our Flyrants since we dont have invuls, how much summoning power they have and how much dice they can throw to cancel our psychic phase, etc. etc.

It just seems ridiculously overwhelming. How do you deal with this?

It depends on how it is built, it is very different a Nurgle one than a Tzeentch one or one with a Screamer Council.

Also it depends in which powers and rewards it gets.

 syypher wrote:
Thoughts on how to deal with a standard tournament Chaos Daemon summoning army with JY2's Pentyrant list? I've never faced it myself (just having gotten into 40k again) but my bud was telling me about it. 2+ invul on one of their characters, some of the FMCs being T8, their Vector strike being more efficient against our Flyrants since we dont have invuls, how much summoning power they have and how much dice they can throw to cancel our psychic phase, etc. etc.

It just seems ridiculously overwhelming. How do you deal with this?

Yeah Daemons have some very distinctly different builds. Summoning a bunch of dudes isn't that difficult to deal with. Often it will net you kill points and as long as you keep the end game in mind, it is not too often overwhelming.

Pentyrant is one of the better lists to take it to a Flying Circus build (just a ton of FMC) because although they are often durable, we can still pump a TON of shots into them. The vector strikes absolutely are dangerous. You can't jink so unless you have Catalyst on, your flyrant might just instantly lost 1-3 wounds, and then take a grounding check of course. It can be pretty nasty, but on average it should only do .6 wounds because you are T6.

The various deathstars (dog-star, screamerstar, nurgle-star...I don't think that nurgle star has an actual name but blight drones are stupid good) basically revolve around having 2+ saves, followed by even more durability (a re-roll on a 2++, or FNP after a 2+ cover save, or invisibility) so they just will not die. Focus your attention literally anywhere else and you should be able to do some work. Avoid these deathstars like the plague and if you must feed a unit to them, try to make them waste a turn by making them move further/out of the way to come get you. Kill the buffing unit(s) if they are separate from the deathstar itself. And above all, if you get a chance to murder fateweaver, do it. He is actually a big part of the army, lessening the randomness by giving out re-rolls when they are needed most.

Xyptc wrote:
Has anyone fiddled around with starting a Mawloc on the field on T1, burrowing T2 and getting a guaranteed strike on T3?

If you place it in cover (and with Shrouding) but also somewhere tempting then it might draw a bit of fire (and with its resilience it does take a fair bit to put down) for a turn or two from an opponent who would rather get rid of it than let it strike at will later. It doesn't matter if it has 6W or 1W when it starts digging, so it could be a means of having an opponent split their fire and perhaps prolong a Tyrant's life a bit?

The trade-off of course is that you lose the chance of a T2 strike (but you do also take the randomness of Reserves rolls out of the picture entirely so... more reliable but a little slower to start?).

It's not a bad idea depending on the situation. If you are running 3 Mawlocs you might be low on models by the time you factor in Flyrants + whatever else you need. In a game where you want to deploy the Flyrants as forward as possible (against say a gunline or a backfield deployment), but want to keep them a bit safer, Mawlocs give a cover save witht their amazing cheap bulk, and will come in and nuke the field T3 regardless. That being said, ruins + Venom/Malanthrope often outperform this strategy if you have a ruins on your side, you are probably better off just rolling for the turn 2. If you have an extremely low model count (Mawlocs + Flyrants at 1500) you can even consider drop the Vope for more points and just do this, since the only thing claiming it on turn 1 anyway would be the Flyrants, and nothing else on every other turn after that. It's not a bad strategy, just generally gotta make it worthwhile because its pretty safe to assume the Mawlocs will be there by turn 3 anyway

 syypher wrote:
Thoughts on how to deal with a standard tournament Chaos Daemon summoning army with JY2's Pentyrant list? I've never faced it myself (just having gotten into 40k again) but my bud was telling me about it. 2+ invul on one of their characters, some of the FMCs being T8, their Vector strike being more efficient against our Flyrants since we dont have invuls, how much summoning power they have and how much dice they can throw to cancel our psychic phase, etc. etc.

It just seems ridiculously overwhelming. How do you deal with this?

1) Don't listen to the hype.

2) Put them in Shadow (Shadow in the warp does very little these days, but it still hoses Daemons)

3) Ignore the Deathstar, and kill everything else. Or multi assault, with Shadow on the Deathstar, and profit.

I'm rethinking my deployment against a lynx. I just finished 4-2 at LVO with both of losses coming when a lynx D-slapped my Heirodule on turn 1. 2+ cover does nothing against a 6 on the D.

Both games were super close, despite that, and I think I win both of them if they waited until turn 2 to roll a 6 on Barbie.

Sean who created lictor shame is playing in the finals tommorrow broadcast on twitch.

Quick thought for the guide on P1 - how about we add relevant fortifications to the reviews? Bastions and VSGs spring to mind as the two which are particularly relevant, though ADL and others could probably be added.

tag8833 wrote:
I'm rethinking my deployment against a lynx. I just finished 4-2 at LVO with both of losses coming when a lynx D-slapped my Heirodule on turn 1. 2+ cover does nothing against a 6 on the D.

Both games were super close, despite that, and I think I win both of them if they waited until turn 2 to roll a 6 on Barbie.

Sean who created lictor shame is playing in the finals tommorrow broadcast on twitch.

Tag that's awesome man. Shame about getting the D twice like that. Incredibly unlucky. Maybe a VSG? Even so, you really represented! Have you posted the list you took? Would be interested to hear how you supported Barbie

tag8833 wrote:
I'm rethinking my deployment against a lynx. I just finished 4-2 at LVO with both of losses coming when a lynx D-slapped my Heirodule on turn 1. 2+ cover does nothing against a 6 on the D.

Both games were super close, despite that, and I think I win both of them if they waited until turn 2 to roll a 6 on Barbie.

Sean who created lictor shame is playing in the finals tommorrow broadcast on twitch.

Awesome, there is no cure for the wrath of the Dice Gawds.

 luke1705 wrote:

Tag that's awesome man. Shame about getting the D twice like that. Incredibly unlucky. Maybe a VSG? Even so, you really represented! Have you posted the list you took? Would be interested to hear how you supported Barbie

my list:


I played newcrons, Eldar/dark Eldar, Eldar, sisters/knights, Eldar, orks)
The 1st 2 games had really good opposing generals and were close. I blew out Orks and sisters, but the two games against lynxes were a mess. In both cases my opponents were lured into thinking they had it won early, and I had a way to win in 5 if thehy failed to D-slap the unit on an objective, but both games started and ended wit a 6 being rolled on the D.

Eta: void shield generator is a solid idea. I have to drop a crone for it which makes me worse against knights, serpent spam, orks, farseers, daemons, and of course flyrants who were everywhere. I think there were more flyrants than tactical marines at the event.

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate Sean and LictorShame? Rooting for a Tyranid win!

That said, I've only just entered FLG twitch and it's T5 so I have no knowledge about how the battle has gone down

 Frozocrone wrote:
Can we all just take a moment to appreciate Sean and LictorShame? Rooting for a Tyranid win!

That said, I've only just entered FLG twitch and it's T5 so I have no knowledge about how the battle has gone down

he pulled it out. Two mawlocs got 6'd, but he was running a list more tolerant to such things than me, and so he won it. I'm super impressed.

It was great seeing how he ran his list. I understand how it works more, and will have to give something similar a try.

tag8833 wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Can we all just take a moment to appreciate Sean and LictorShame? Rooting for a Tyranid win!

That said, I've only just entered FLG twitch and it's T5 so I have no knowledge about how the battle has gone down

he pulled it out. Two mawlocs got 6'd, but he was running a list more tolerant to such things than me, and so he won it. I'm super impressed.

It was great seeing how he ran his list. I understand how it works more, and will have to give something similar a try.

My main query with it is how does he use the Guards (and the Spores to a lesser extent)? The list is certainly unique, someone posted it in the LVO thread; http://i.imgur.com/7oeFVCP.jpg

We need battle reports with the Lictorshame.

I agree. Lictorshame just won LVO - need moar tactica

Sean Nayden has officially won his second Grand Tournament with his #Lictorshame list. He actually lost a game to the man that he played in the finals before the round of 8 began but got the retribution W when it counted, quite convincingly in the end. It was close but the Nids pulled it out


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gotta love how many people said his list was just a result of the 11th company missions. Way to go Sean! Even taking down Nick Nanavati in the Quarterfinals

This is the list if anyone is interested.

That SM list is deceptively powerful.

I just love how it's title is #Lictorshame and 'Spore Mines? What do Spore Mines do?'