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I call my Lictor list Lic Rolled.

Besides, although Sean may or may not be able to call it Lictor shame since it is the crux of a multiple GT winning army comp, it doesn't matter. He'll just find another unit/army. Next up:

#Harushame
#pyrovorepatdown
#oneeyeseesall

 krootman. wrote:


He is a fantastic player, when he showed me how to use spore mines, I pretty much had an organism. I plan on running a sporefield formation with my eldar at adepticon. With so many good lists out there, and a wide verity of missions being played across different formats, play skill is now more important then it has ever been.

What is the theory / method behind spore mines? I still haven't really seen it explained by anyone

 krootman. wrote:

That said, everyone said lictor shame couldn't work, and look where we are now.

People can be quite close minded to anything that doesn't involve spamming the perceived strongest unit in the dex. But in the hands of a good player, good balance will always win out in the end in total victorys IMO. It's not hard to get a win against a lot of lists with 5 flyrants, a lot of lists just fold to it, but it also has a lot of bad match ups oh its own, and a properly balanced list with tools for each situation and it just comes down to who the better player is, judging which units will be the more important ones for winning the game and deploying accordingly. This is something that I believe Seans list gives him the tools to do, and allows the better skilled player to win out in a lot of match ups, which is the best thing to rely on, your own skill, instead of just a positive match up.

Spore mines do a few things

1) because they don't actually give anything up when you kill them, you can run a Bunch of units of mines and mucloids, start them on the table to man your coms and prevent yourself from getting tabled or giving up fb or kps to your opponent. Which is a huge deal the ultimate alpha strike counter.

2) great at movement blocking, and killing silly weak units (spore mines for movement blocking, mucloids for killing weak units)

3) they can eat over watch, and just generally be a pain in the ass. They have enormous potential with no real downside.

My first few games of 7th edition were at LVO this weekend and I did alright with a 3-3 record. 2 key tactical mistakes from inexperience cost me 2 games.

I ran the bio blast formation all in tyranocytes with a pair of flyrants and a trygon prime with 2 mucolid spores. I am looking forward to my modified list with 2 flyrants, swarmlord, malanthrope, 3 mucolid spores, and 4 dakka fexes with 5 tyranocytes. The tyranocytes and fexes lay down a lot of fire and can claim objectives while the flyrants go around causing problems for people. I'm just trying to decide if 4 fexes or 3 fexes and 3 zoanthropes would be better.

OrdoSean wrote:
Hey everybody. We're back! Haha. Was a blast at LVO this weekend. Sitting at the airport now ready to fly back east. Played a ton of great games against great guys: John, Sean, Nick, Chris, Jim(jy2), Johnpaul, Nick, Tyler, and Nick again. Took some pics in early games and then as things got tighter and tighter kinda left camera in the wayside. But I'll try to get some reports up at some point. At least for the two biggest games I was on twitch so I barely even bothered with pics then. Interested in watching them on replay to see how it looked and sounded from the outside( always worried I might sound like an idiot or say something dumb or go on a swearing spree and I think my mom was tuning in at some point haha).

I highly recommend anyone thinking of attending LVO next year or any of Reece and front lines events. I heard they are running the event in Austin at the revitalized wargamescon so anyone thinking of going to events look for that.

As always any questions or flattery is appreciated. We don't play for the money but for the praise lol.... People kept asking if we were playing for lots of money and were confused when we said no haha. Though the top itc guy got a healthy check so I might have to look into some more itc events this year.

Apparently I'm not allowed to call it #lictorshame anymore according to Geoff(incontrol) so might have to think up a new name.

Congrats on your win mate!

I'm guessing it's already been covered in this thread, but I played against Tyranids for the first time since 7th edition came out; 2000pts, my Eldar and Blood Angels against his Tyranids.

What surprised me was the sheer amount of firepower out out by large and inexpensive units. 30 Termagants went through 5 Terminators, a Captain in Terminator Armour and 90% of a squad of Guardians. The Terminators were gone through two rounds of overwatch following a failed charge attempt (4" - urgh!).

Genestealers fell pretty easily to Bladestorm and a Dreadnought and all of his monstrous creatures were taken out by the third turn.

Through lack of any real knowledge on Tyranids other than one game last night: large squads Termagants shooting anything that moves.

OrdoSean wrote:
Hey everybody. We're back! Haha. Was a blast at LVO this weekend. Sitting at the airport now ready to fly back east. Played a ton of great games against great guys: John, Sean, Nick, Chris, Jim(jy2), Johnpaul, Nick, Tyler, and Nick again. Took some pics in early games and then as things got tighter and tighter kinda left camera in the wayside. But I'll try to get some reports up at some point. At least for the two biggest games I was on twitch so I barely even bothered with pics then. Interested in watching them on replay to see how it looked and sounded from the outside( always worried I might sound like an idiot or say something dumb or go on a swearing spree and I think my mom was tuning in at some point haha).

I highly recommend anyone thinking of attending LVO next year or any of Reece and front lines events. I heard they are running the event in Austin at the revitalized wargamescon so anyone thinking of going to events look for that.

As always any questions or flattery is appreciated. We don't play for the money but for the praise lol.... People kept asking if we were playing for lots of money and were confused when we said no haha. Though the top itc guy got a healthy check so I might have to look into some more itc events this year.

Apparently I'm not allowed to call it #lictorshame anymore according to Geoff(incontrol) so might have to think up a new name.

Sean, do you think you could give a quick rundown of your opponents from rounds 1-6? I'm curious to see what your matchups were like. Also, in your practice what matchups did you find were the worst for you? I could see the right Tau build being very troublesome with enough anti air and SMS to easily kill MSU units.

I take a break from dakka for a few days and #LictorShame wins another GT.

Congrats to Sean and hope everybody had fun who went.

 jifel wrote:


Sean, do you think you could give a quick rundown of your opponents from rounds 1-6? I'm curious to see what your matchups were like. Also, in your practice what matchups did you find were the worst for you? I could see the right Tau build being very troublesome with enough anti air and SMS to easily kill MSU units.

Round 1: Eldar/Dark Eldar - Spiritseer, archon(webway shadowfield, agonizer), 5 dscythe wraithguard, 4 waveserpents, 3 units of dire avengers, 2 wraithknights

Round 2: TSHIFT winner eldar/tau: 4 Wave serpents, mantle jet seer, 4 dire avengers, 2 solo hornets, tau fireblade cadre (2 units of broadsides, riptide), void shield generator

Round 3: blood angels and imperial fists: same list as in the final, cents, 4 units of scouts, centurians, mephiston, librarian, lysander

Round 4: Orks and necrons: 2 weirdboys, warboss with luckystick, 15 boys in a battlewagon, 3 meganobs in truck, 3 mega nobz in truck, 10 boys in truck, mega blasta artillery, canoptex formation (wraiths, scarbs, spyder), gretchin, summoned demons.

Round 5: Jy2 and his Pentyrants: 5 flyrants, 3 lictors, 2 rippers, mawloc, void shield

Round 6: Demons/Tyranids: fateweaver, 2 tzeentch heralds, 2 units of 7 screamers, 11 horrors, 3 nurglings, 3 Flyrants, 3 mucolids

and then demons, eldar, scouts again in the finals. I lost round 3 to Nicks scouts and then we met again in the final round.

OrdoSean wrote:

 jifel wrote:


Sean, do you think you could give a quick rundown of your opponents from rounds 1-6? I'm curious to see what your matchups were like. Also, in your practice what matchups did you find were the worst for you? I could see the right Tau build being very troublesome with enough anti air and SMS to easily kill MSU units.

Round 1: Eldar/Dark Eldar - Spiritseer, archon(webway shadowfield, agonizer), 5 dscythe wraithguard, 4 waveserpents, 3 units of dire avengers, 2 wraithknights

Round 2: TSHIFT winner eldar/tau: 4 Wave serpents, mantle jet seer, 4 dire avengers, 2 solo hornets, tau fireblade cadre (2 units of broadsides, riptide), void shield generator

Round 3: blood angels and imperial fists: same list as in the final, cents, 4 units of scouts, centurians, mephiston, librarian, lysander

Round 4: Orks and necrons: 2 weirdboys, warboss with luckystick, 15 boys in a battlewagon, 3 meganobs in truck, 3 mega nobz in truck, 10 boys in truck, mega blasta artillery, canoptex formation (wraiths, scarbs, spyder), gretchin, summoned demons.

Round 5: Jy2 and his Pentyrants: 5 flyrants, 3 lictors, 2 rippers, mawloc, void shield

Round 6: Demons/Tyranids: fateweaver, 2 tzeentch heralds, 2 units of 7 screamers, 11 horrors, 3 nurglings, 3 Flyrants, 3 mucolids

and then demons, eldar, scouts again in the finals. I lost round 3 to Nicks scouts and then we met again in the final round.

You are so tall and dreamy sean

OrdoSean wrote:
Round 6: Demons/Tyranids: fateweaver, 2 tzeentch heralds, 2 units of 7 screamers, 11 horrors, 3 nurglings, 3 Flyrants, 3 mucolids

This guy got a gift in round 2 when they ruled that Shadows in the Warp affected every unit, and not just psychers. It never occurred to me to make that argument, and it blew my mind that judges would agree. When I saw that, I asked Reece if I could use that ruling in my future games, and he had a judges pow-wow, and decided that it was a one game only ruling, and that from then on Shadows only affected Psyker again.

Has anyone ever heard of that reading of shadows:

All enemy units and models with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers special rules suffer a -3 penalty to their Leadership whilst they are within 12 of one or more models with the Shadow in the Warp special rule.

The idea behind the interpretation is an implied seperation between "All enemy units" and "models with the Psyker..." making it apply to both all enemy units, and also all Psyker be they friendly or enemy, so a Tyrant is always at -3 leadership because it is a Psyker and in its own shadows bubble, but a Lord Commissar (despite not being a Psyker ) is only Leadership 7.

tag8833 wrote:

OrdoSean wrote:
Round 6: Demons/Tyranids: fateweaver, 2 tzeentch heralds, 2 units of 7 screamers, 11 horrors, 3 nurglings, 3 Flyrants, 3 mucolids

This guy got a gift in round 2 when they ruled that Shadows in the Warp affected every unit, and not just psychers. It never occurred to me to make that argument, and it blew my mind that judges would agree. When I saw that, I asked Reece if I could use that ruling in my future games, and he had a judges pow-wow, and decided that it was a one game only ruling, and that from then on Shadows only affected Psyker again.

Has anyone ever heard of that reading of shadows:

All enemy units and models with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers special rules suffer a -3 penalty to their Leadership whilst they are within 12 of one or more models with the Shadow in the Warp special rule.

The idea behind the interpretation is an implied seperation between "All enemy units" and "models with the Psyker..." making it apply to both all enemy units, and also all Psyker be they friendly or enemy, so a Tyrant is always at -3 leadership because it is a Psyker and in its own shadows bubble, but a Lord Commissar (despite not being a Psyker ) is only Leadership 7.

That is possibly the dumbest reading I've ever heard.

And applying it only to one game is even dumber. If you're going to make a call, own it and apply it everywhere.

rigeld2 wrote:
And applying it only to one game is even dumber. If you're going to make a call, own it and apply it everywhere.

They sorta tried to fix it. It cost my Tau friend a Game, because on the turn where the ruling came up, a single Psychic Scream killed 2 Riptides, and some drones and suites, which mattered quite a bit in Kill points. As the team captain I complained, and they agreed that If he won out, they would have given him some bonus battle points to make sure he made it into the finals if any one loss players did. He lost his final game, so it was a moot point.

 krootman. wrote:

OrdoSean wrote:

 jifel wrote:


Sean, do you think you could give a quick rundown of your opponents from rounds 1-6? I'm curious to see what your matchups were like. Also, in your practice what matchups did you find were the worst for you? I could see the right Tau build being very troublesome with enough anti air and SMS to easily kill MSU units.

Round 1: Eldar/Dark Eldar - Spiritseer, archon(webway shadowfield, agonizer), 5 dscythe wraithguard, 4 waveserpents, 3 units of dire avengers, 2 wraithknights

Round 2: TSHIFT winner eldar/tau: 4 Wave serpents, mantle jet seer, 4 dire avengers, 2 solo hornets, tau fireblade cadre (2 units of broadsides, riptide), void shield generator

Round 3: blood angels and imperial fists: same list as in the final, cents, 4 units of scouts, centurians, mephiston, librarian, lysander

Round 4: Orks and necrons: 2 weirdboys, warboss with luckystick, 15 boys in a battlewagon, 3 meganobs in truck, 3 mega nobz in truck, 10 boys in truck, mega blasta artillery, canoptex formation (wraiths, scarbs, spyder), gretchin, summoned demons.

Round 5: Jy2 and his Pentyrants: 5 flyrants, 3 lictors, 2 rippers, mawloc, void shield

Round 6: Demons/Tyranids: fateweaver, 2 tzeentch heralds, 2 units of 7 screamers, 11 horrors, 3 nurglings, 3 Flyrants, 3 mucolids

and then demons, eldar, scouts again in the finals. I lost round 3 to Nicks scouts and then we met again in the final round.

You are so tall and dreamy sean

This can't be said enough.

tag8833 wrote:

OrdoSean wrote:
Round 6: Demons/Tyranids: fateweaver, 2 tzeentch heralds, 2 units of 7 screamers, 11 horrors, 3 nurglings, 3 Flyrants, 3 mucolids

This guy got a gift in round 2 when they ruled that Shadows in the Warp affected every unit, and not just psychers. It never occurred to me to make that argument, and it blew my mind that judges would agree. When I saw that, I asked Reece if I could use that ruling in my future games, and he had a judges pow-wow, and decided that it was a one game only ruling, and that from then on Shadows only affected Psyker again.

Has anyone ever heard of that reading of shadows:

All enemy units and models with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers special rules suffer a -3 penalty to their Leadership whilst they are within 12 of one or more models with the Shadow in the Warp special rule.

The idea behind the interpretation is an implied seperation between "All enemy units" and "models with the Psyker..." making it apply to both all enemy units, and also all Psyker be they friendly or enemy, so a Tyrant is always at -3 leadership because it is a Psyker and in its own shadows bubble, but a Lord Commissar (despite not being a Psyker ) is only Leadership 7.

Holy crap that is the hands down stupidest interpretation I've ever seen suggested, let alone let through... WOW, that is one bad judge. If he did one thing all day it should have been kicking that TFG ass interpretation to the curb without a seconds thought. This person should not be judging a game of backyard cricket let alone a competitive event.

Drifting away from LVO - I've always lost to space wolves. Starting with one of my first games back in 40k in 5th edition, I had literally half my army wiped out on turn 1 to Drop Pod Jaws.

I'm not sure why I've always lost, but I broke that streak last night. Played the Relic at 1k points (league game) against a SW list with a Rune Priest on a bike, a bunch of other bikes, and 8 thunderwolves, and a Vindicaire. I had 3 Flyrants, 3 Mucolids, a Carnifex, and a Malanthrope. After rolling poorly for Psychic Powers (Shriek and Horror on all 3 Flyrants - Horror is useless because none of his models can be pinned) I got Infiltrate on my warlord... since we were doing Hammer and Anvil I ended up being able to deploy him in my opponent's back corner.

My turn one I end up nuking an entire bike unit, but not the one with the warlord. His turn one he vrooms up to the Relic and holds it with his Iron Arm/Endurance warlord. Yay. He also charges and pastes my Carnifex.

Fast forward - my turn 5 he's down to his warlord and 2 units of 2 wolves and his vindicaire. I lost one Flyrant to Perils which grounded him, and then a 2 wound shot from the Vindi. He is running his Warlord away from my Flyrants while being nigh invulnerable (T8 and FNP4+ because I haven't been able to deny a damn thing). I kill a unit of wolves with one Flyrant's shooting and land my Warlord near his Priest. He charges my Warlord with his wolves, I ID one of them with Smash and take a wound.

He rolls to see if the game continues - it does. I move Flyrant #2 up and manifest Psychic Scream into the wolf/flyrant combat and roll an 11 - poof goes the wolf. My now free-to-fire Warlord fired into his Rune Priest and rolled amazingly - 6 wounds, he failed 2 armor saves and then failed the 2 FNPs.

tag8833 wrote:

OrdoSean wrote:
Round 6: Demons/Tyranids: fateweaver, 2 tzeentch heralds, 2 units of 7 screamers, 11 horrors, 3 nurglings, 3 Flyrants, 3 mucolids

This guy got a gift in round 2 when they ruled that Shadows in the Warp affected every unit, and not just psychers. It never occurred to me to make that argument, and it blew my mind that judges would agree. When I saw that, I asked Reece if I could use that ruling in my future games, and he had a judges pow-wow, and decided that it was a one game only ruling, and that from then on Shadows only affected Psyker again.

Has anyone ever heard of that reading of shadows:

All enemy units and models with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers special rules suffer a -3 penalty to their Leadership whilst they are within 12 of one or more models with the Shadow in the Warp special rule.

The idea behind the interpretation is an implied seperation between "All enemy units" and "models with the Psyker..." making it apply to both all enemy units, and also all Psyker be they friendly or enemy, so a Tyrant is always at -3 leadership because it is a Psyker and in its own shadows bubble, but a Lord Commissar (despite not being a Psyker ) is only Leadership 7.

Gah, that is madness! Rules lawyer nonsense of the highest order. If a friend tried that in a game, our friendship would be endangered..

 Sinful Hero wrote:

This can't be said enough.

If you are ever lucky enough to run your hands through his beard, you will find enlightenment like I have.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Holy crap that is the hands down stupidest interpretation I've ever seen suggested, let alone let through... WOW, that is one bad judge. If he did one thing all day it should have been kicking that TFG ass interpretation to the curb without a seconds thought. This person should not be judging a game of backyard cricket let alone a competitive event.

Its not nearly that bad. There is a RAW argument, and the Tyranid player made it effectively, and convinced the Judges. It was something that had mainly never occurred to me.


Another example of a rules confusion at LVO that was completely my fault. Did you know that if you are on the ground (Gliding), and you switch flight modes to Swooping, then you can only pivot 90 degrees from your current facing? I have played this wrong in 100% of my games ever, and got called out for it in my final game. I was guilty of it in every single game before, because when I deploy, I make no effort to pick a facing for my 1st round of Swooping, though if I had know, I could have rotated my fliers.

The only game where I used it to my advantage was an Ork player who shot a flyrant out of the sky, and that flyrant swooped 180 degrees in reverse to kill a battle wagon. If I ever play that opponent again, I will do the Nick Nanavati thing and reroll a couple successful grounding checks.

tag8833 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Holy crap that is the hands down stupidest interpretation I've ever seen suggested, let alone let through... WOW, that is one bad judge. If he did one thing all day it should have been kicking that TFG ass interpretation to the curb without a seconds thought. This person should not be judging a game of backyard cricket let alone a competitive event.

Its not nearly that bad. There is a RAW argument, and the Tyranid player made it effectively, and convinced the Judges. It was something that had mainly never occurred to me.

There really isn't a RAW argument to be made - that's not how English works.

Another example of a rules confusion at LVO that was completely my fault. Did you know that if you are on the ground (Gliding), and you switch flight modes to Swooping, then you can only pivot 90 degrees from your current facing? I have played this wrong in 100% of my games ever, and got called out for it in my final game. I was guilty of it in every single game before, because when I deploy, I make no effort to pick a facing for my 1st round of Swooping, though if I had know, I could have rotated my fliers.

Yeah, I didn't know this was an unknown :-) I've always thought it was clear that you can't pivot before you declare swooping.

tag I played my hive tyrants the same way... there is more of an argument to be made but yeah I gave up on it as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ALSO SEAN you've inspired me to try goofy things as well! I am going to the Broadside Bash which is a hugely comp'd and fluffy tourney but a full GT with ITC points where I will bring 45-60 Manufactorum genes hahah. I can't imagine it is super competitive but it sounds fun and is an excuse to work with the mawloc/lictor combo you showed off.

Undecided what I will do with my main list. I dropped 1 game due to rules "cheating" (he did it on accident) and another loss was silly dice (Swarmlord held in combat for 3 game turns by 1-2 legion of the damned) where had it gone on to 6+ I would have won handily. Tourneys like that where you don't do well but COULD HAVE make you think about your list :(

iNcontroL wrote:
tag I played my hive tyrants the same way... there is more of an argument to be made but yeah I gave up on it as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ALSO SEAN you've inspired me to try goofy things as well! I am going to the Broadside Bash which is a hugely comp'd and fluffy tourney but a full GT with ITC points where I will bring 45-60 Manufactorum genes hahah. I can't imagine it is super competitive but it sounds fun and is an excuse to work with the mawloc/lictor combo you showed off.

Undecided what I will do with my main list. I dropped 1 game due to rules "cheating" (he did it on accident) and another loss was silly dice (Swarmlord held in combat for 3 game turns by 1-2 legion of the damned) where had it gone on to 6+ I would have won handily. Tourneys like that where you don't do well but COULD HAVE make you think about your list :(

Geoff I've posted up here a few times about a crazy MSU Genestealer list I've wrote and haven't had chance to run yet, despite having all the models. You should give it a try out.

1850 points

Flyrant Electrogrubs, Devourers
Flyrant Electrogrubs, Devourers
Flyrant Electrogrubs, Devourers

Malonthrope

5 x Genestelaers, Broodlord
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers

Manafactorum Genestealers

5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers

Yeah Geoff those are the hardest. I brought the same list to an event two weeks before LVO, and lost a close game to my friend, and then got blown out in a game that I know I should normally win but I played really bad and made tons of mistakes. It had me wondering about my list and needing to change it before LVO... but I had to recognize that I still believed in my list and myself and change for the sake of playing bad was a bad idea.

Now I did change the list from 11th to now because of change for the sake of improvement. That I think is the hardest to judge. When you are changing for worries or for real need. Because the meta does shift and change is necessary from time to time. I was stubborn at first wanting to keep my 11th list but went to a rtt and did poorly and had to look inside and accept with access to a third flyrant I would need to move that way. And finding the shifts to still give me the ground forces I wanted. Thus the tyrant guard to replace lost lictors.

I watched the streams yesterday and you guys were highly entertaining. Was a fun watch. And you guys not being able to hear us I apologize. Was most funny in the eldar game, like you guys kept talking about maybe me not knowing it could fly... which I did and wondered why he didnt, and also when talking about the impact hit from the mawloc charging and I did roll it he just holofielded it lol, but since you guys couldnt hear it affected it.

I wonder if in future they could pause clocks after every turn to point out some stuff to the broadcasters... especially in a finals game where time is maybe less important. LIke mini 30 second interviews between rounds to talk about strategy, if not every turn every other or something. Or at least point out objectives to you guys better. Since in the final you guys thought nick was winning objectives for a while until you guys heard us having a discussion near the end of the game wondering if it was worth even playing anymore. Was really fun to watch though and you guys(goatboy and you) had great rapport.

OrdoSean wrote:
Yeah Geoff those are the hardest. I brought the same list to an event two weeks before LVO, and lost a close game to my friend, and then got blown out in a game that I know I should normally win but I played really bad and made tons of mistakes. It had me wondering about my list and needing to change it before LVO... but I had to recognize that I still believed in my list and myself and change for the sake of playing bad was a bad idea.

Now I did change the list from 11th to now because of change for the sake of improvement. That I think is the hardest to judge. When you are changing for worries or for real need. Because the meta does shift and change is necessary from time to time. I was stubborn at first wanting to keep my 11th list but went to a rtt and did poorly and had to look inside and accept with access to a third flyrant I would need to move that way. And finding the shifts to still give me the ground forces I wanted. Thus the tyrant guard to replace lost lictors.

I watched the streams yesterday and you guys were highly entertaining. Was a fun watch. And you guys not being able to hear us I apologize. Was most funny in the eldar game, like you guys kept talking about maybe me not knowing it could fly... which I did and wondered why he didnt, and also when talking about the impact hit from the mawloc charging and I did roll it he just holofielded it lol, but since you guys couldnt hear it affected it.

I wonder if in future they could pause clocks after every turn to point out some stuff to the broadcasters... especially in a finals game where time is maybe less important. LIke mini 30 second interviews between rounds to talk about strategy, if not every turn every other or something. Or at least point out objectives to you guys better. Since in the final you guys thought nick was winning objectives for a while until you guys heard us having a discussion near the end of the game wondering if it was worth even playing anymore. Was really fun to watch though and you guys(goatboy and you) had great rapport.

Are you talking about when you let me have fb from a turn 1 lictor charge on my wk because you didnt see the window?!!!!

OrdoSean wrote:
I wonder if in future they could pause clocks after every turn to point out some stuff to the broadcasters... especially in a finals game where time is maybe less important. LIke mini 30 second interviews between rounds to talk about strategy, if not every turn every other or something. Or at least point out objectives to you guys better. Since in the final you guys thought nick was winning objectives for a while until you guys heard us having a discussion near the end of the game wondering if it was worth even playing anymore. Was really fun to watch though and you guys(goatboy and you) had great rapport.

Sean, did having the audience, and play-by-play guys bug you at all?

I'm used to drawing a crowd at local RTTs, but at LVO when my wife, teammates, and my opponents buddies all started gathering around it unnerved me a bit. One of my opponents was clearly more unnerved than I, and I asked my cheering section to leave, but Frankie came over at that point because of the number of rules arguments we kept having, and it frazzled my opponent even more, but at least shut down the random rules arguments. By the end I was pissed because of the rules arguments, and he was pissed because of the crowd, and I'm sure neither of us had any fun in that game.

rigeld2 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Holy crap that is the hands down stupidest interpretation I've ever seen suggested, let alone let through... WOW, that is one bad judge. If he did one thing all day it should have been kicking that TFG ass interpretation to the curb without a seconds thought. This person should not be judging a game of backyard cricket let alone a competitive event.

Its not nearly that bad. There is a RAW argument, and the Tyranid player made it effectively, and convinced the Judges. It was something that had mainly never occurred to me.

There really isn't a RAW argument to be made - that's not how English works.

Exactly, and it IS that bad. The fact that this got through at all, and that you are describing it not as something stupidly outlandish but as something "you can't believe you hadn't considered" makes me personally doubt the credibility of both some people's own metas AND the whole LVO tournament setting, and makes me wonder what other crazy gak both of these places let fly. If a judge made a ruling like this at the highest end of competitive MTG, the amount of backlash would be insane. Not only is it undeniably against RAI by anyone using common sense, it's also completely against RAW even before the English fail, as the BEST possible argument that can be made is that there is two equally legitimate interpretations for it, which makes you wonder what his personal stake in the match was, to rule towards the option that obviously went against RAI as well the one that absolutely NOBODY has been playing it as thus far. But as Rigeld said, even that ARGUMENT is a complete fail, that's not how the English language works, it's not freaking BODMAS where you just chop it all up and go through it as you please, grammar exists for a reason.

OrdoSean wrote:
Yeah Geoff those are the hardest. I brought the same list to an event two weeks before LVO, and lost a close game to my friend, and then got blown out in a game that I know I should normally win but I played really bad and made tons of mistakes. It had me wondering about my list and needing to change it before LVO... but I had to recognize that I still believed in my list and myself and change for the sake of playing bad was a bad idea.

Now I did change the list from 11th to now because of change for the sake of improvement. That I think is the hardest to judge. When you are changing for worries or for real need. Because the meta does shift and change is necessary from time to time. I was stubborn at first wanting to keep my 11th list but went to a rtt and did poorly and had to look inside and accept with access to a third flyrant I would need to move that way. And finding the shifts to still give me the ground forces I wanted. Thus the tyrant guard to replace lost lictors.

I watched the streams yesterday and you guys were highly entertaining. Was a fun watch. And you guys not being able to hear us I apologize. Was most funny in the eldar game, like you guys kept talking about maybe me not knowing it could fly... which I did and wondered why he didnt, and also when talking about the impact hit from the mawloc charging and I did roll it he just holofielded it lol, but since you guys couldnt hear it affected it.

I wonder if in future they could pause clocks after every turn to point out some stuff to the broadcasters... especially in a finals game where time is maybe less important. LIke mini 30 second interviews between rounds to talk about strategy, if not every turn every other or something. Or at least point out objectives to you guys better. Since in the final you guys thought nick was winning objectives for a while until you guys heard us having a discussion near the end of the game wondering if it was worth even playing anymore. Was really fun to watch though and you guys(goatboy and you) had great rapport.

So true!

I know a lot of it is also not the list but rather mental mistakes I made. Played too slow and took a unnecessary stab at a power one game that rolled me a fat 1 inside of shadows and blew up my 5 wound Swarmlord lol. Bah! That is the beauty of this game though.. no 1 list is perfect. Makes for a ongoing and exciting experience.

Thanks for the kind words on the broadcast <3 yeah a much better set up is one where we can see the board better AND cannot be heard by you guys. Then mini interviews and additional content coming in from other tables.

iNcontroL wrote:
tag I played my hive tyrants the same way... there is more of an argument to be made but yeah I gave up on it as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ALSO SEAN you've inspired me to try goofy things as well! I am going to the Broadside Bash which is a hugely comp'd and fluffy tourney but a full GT with ITC points where I will bring 45-60 Manufactorum genes hahah. I can't imagine it is super competitive but it sounds fun and is an excuse to work with the mawloc/lictor combo you showed off.

Undecided what I will do with my main list. I dropped 1 game due to rules "cheating" (he did it on accident) and another loss was silly dice (Swarmlord held in combat for 3 game turns by 1-2 legion of the damned) where had it gone on to 6+ I would have won handily. Tourneys like that where you don't do well but COULD HAVE make you think about your list :(

Manufactorums are really terrain sensitive. If you have a lot of buildings or ruins around, they can be devastating effective as both fire magnets and actual assaulting units. The ability to infiltrate with in 6" of an opponent just seems to scare them alot, along with entering from reserve into ruins making for nice objective hunters.

Yeah well as a Nid player if the table doesn't have ruins I'm already in trouble haha. That said.. I really don't think this list is THE BEST but in a comp tourney at 2k points I kinda want to have fun and challenge myself

Eldercaveman wrote:

iNcontroL wrote:
tag I played my hive tyrants the same way... there is more of an argument to be made but yeah I gave up on it as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ALSO SEAN you've inspired me to try goofy things as well! I am going to the Broadside Bash which is a hugely comp'd and fluffy tourney but a full GT with ITC points where I will bring 45-60 Manufactorum genes hahah. I can't imagine it is super competitive but it sounds fun and is an excuse to work with the mawloc/lictor combo you showed off.

Undecided what I will do with my main list. I dropped 1 game due to rules "cheating" (he did it on accident) and another loss was silly dice (Swarmlord held in combat for 3 game turns by 1-2 legion of the damned) where had it gone on to 6+ I would have won handily. Tourneys like that where you don't do well but COULD HAVE make you think about your list :(

Geoff I've posted up here a few times about a crazy MSU Genestealer list I've wrote and haven't had chance to run yet, despite having all the models. You should give it a try out.

1850 points

Flyrant Electrogrubs, Devourers
Flyrant Electrogrubs, Devourers
Flyrant Electrogrubs, Devourers

Malonthrope

5 x Genestelaers, Broodlord
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers

Manafactorum Genestealers

5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers
5 x Genestealers

I've played a couple variations on this theme at 1500 points and it was a lot of fun. Not the uber-est or anything, but you guys already know that.

First time I did 2 Flyrants, Vope, 2x Zopes, 4x 5 Genestealers, Dakkafex in a Pod, and 5x 5 Manufactorum Genestealers. That game was against Eldar and I won pretty handily. Infiltrating 9 squads literally all over the board is both fun and hilarious. I imagine its even more so with 14 lol.

Second time was 3 Flyrants, 2x Vope, Zope, 4x 5 Genestealers, and 5x 5 Manufactorum Genestealers. This time I was up against a Newcron Decurion for the first time, and man that was a learning experience lol. I had read the codex already and had an idea of how durable they were going to be, but seeing it play out on the table was eye opening. Damn things just don't go down. He was running a Rec Legion with Overlord, 2x 20 Warriors, 5x Immortals, 2x Night Scythes, 4x Tomb Blades, 10 Flayed ones, and a Canoptek Harvest w/ 4 Wraiths. This time I only deployed 2 'Stealer squads and outflanked the rest because I didn't want to give the Wraiths a turn 1 charge, and I didn't want them stuck in my backfield either. I mitigated the wraiths by ouflanking a couple squads near an objective in his corner, but away from the rest of his force. The Flyrants just could not do enough damage to those warrior bricks to get him off objectives and a lucky round of shooting by one Night Scythe followed by a bad round of saves for me cost me my Warlord. The Flayed Ones just waltzed up the board and mulched my backfield. Probably should have killed those guys first and it would have been a closer game. The other 6 squads of 'Stealers outflanked into cover near his warrior bricks, but came in piecemeal so I was never able to put enough wounds in an assault to get a sweeping advance off. I could have played it better, but I do think that DecurionCrons with a strong ground game are going to be tough for Flyrant Spam Nids to deal with.