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2015/05/21 03:23:06
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
pinecone77 wrote: Seeing how we've got some math going. I am still liking HyperToxic Node, and I am ruminating on the loadout...
Base: Winged Tyrant, Toxic, MawClaws, Thorax....230 points I am seriously considering Miasma Cannon. Because of the Special Rule, it might be viable....255 if I take it. Thoughts?
If you don't like MawClaws, Rending+ Old Adversary cost 20 points...? Base of 240...?
I would try it - two templates on a platform like that sounds brutal for anything with a wounds characteristic. Still think the toxicrene is a bit of a tax, but I haven't used it yet so...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/21 03:24:07
SBG wrote: So, I have a thought regarding Raveners. How does everyone feel about them if supported by Venomthropes (cover), The Swarmlord (furious charge/psychic support), and 3 deep striking dakkafexes in spores? Thinking of running about 18 of them, in a few squads.
More for a fun game, but it's something I've been wanting to try out, since Raveners can't get combat biomorphs.
Raveners are great. If Imperial Knights and Wraith Lord / Knights weren't a thing we might even see them finding their way into lists.
Personally, I think it is best to accompany Raveners with Shrikes for Synapse. Malanthropes can work, but Shrikes can keep up easier, and can take biomorphs and BS + LW for situational superiority.
If you don't want to run Malanthropes, you should put that Venom in a box (Bastion). If you are feeling really gutsy buy an escape hatch and 2 squads of 1 Venom. That way you can advance them upfield with the raveners.
The Swarmlord is very points inefficient. Use flyrants instead.
2015/05/21 13:05:46
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Soo my road to the nova open officially started Yesterday morning, which means its list building time!
So after reading basic primer, my first idea is msu bugs, my thoughts on lictors lately is they have been fantastic, but I always wish I had more of them, and when you read nova missions malwocs seem underwhelming most of the time.
So here is my first draft of bugs for the nova open
Cad
flyrant 240
Malenthrope 85
lictor 50
3 ripper swarm with deep strike 45
3 ripper swarm with deep strike 45
3 spore mines 15
Bunker with coms 75
This list has the ability to be whereever it wants, the -1 ld bonus deathleaper and his lictors provide will come in handy vs msu and I have some deep striking obsec that could come in handy from time to time.
2015/05/21 15:46:13
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
My problem with Hypertoxic Node is that I do not want toxin sacs on my HT nor do I want three venomthropes. I want units downtable in tyrannocytes with this formation. So I find it a tax to field said upgrades.
However, if going that route - yes maw-claws and scything talons and egrub is all you need. Why take rending? You are already AP2 and ID. The miasma cannon is not a bad upgrade either but it can go on a tervigon that DSes with a tyrannocyte.
I can do as much damage with a simpler list without ther Node.
felixcat wrote: My problem with Hypertoxic Node is that I do not want toxin sacs on my HT nore do I want three venomthropes. I mwant units downtable in tyrannocytes with this formation. So I find it a tax to field said upgrades.
However, if going that route - yes maw-claws and scything talons and egrub is all you need. Why take rending? You are already AP2 and ID. The miasma cannon is not a bad upgrade either but it can go on a tervigon that DSes with a tyrannocyte.
I can do as much damage with a simpler list without ther Node.
Rending only costs 5 points, and it gives me a small chance to take out heavy armor. The Toxin is not a waste in my eyes because the Special Rule gives all poison attacks IK on a 6 (or 5-6 if they have IK 6) so I view it as a cheap Bone Sword. MawClaws costs 10 but gives PE on a kill, so I see it as "OK".
Without the Special Rule, I don't normally see Miasma Cannon as being worthwhile...but Maybe a IK Template/Blast can earn it's points back...
I agree that Toxicrene has not "proven" it's self yet, but it is about the only Big Bug that has Shrouding, And a reasonable CC ability.
The main reason I like HyperToxic is it brings 3 Broods of Venos, that frees up Elite slots for Zoeys, or Lictors, etc...
I figure putting Toxicrene in a Pod lets me put a fairly survivable Big Bug in the backfield, and it does have a ranged Blast (that has IK by Special Rule) So I currently don't view Toxicrene as a "tax" (currently... ) Remember Toxi has Lash whips doesn't it? that can be handy once in a while... I think I can interpose the Pod to give the Toxi a decent cover save if I need to...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Solidcrash wrote: Just look in Tyranids wargear... Miasma Cannon? Maw-claws?
Is that sort of combined with weapon and upgrade? Explain please... It is first time for me to use poison weapon since 2nd edition!
Take a look at ..Bio Artifacts? something like that...only HQ quality units can take them...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/21 19:54:20
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2015/05/21 20:00:41
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
About hypertonic node - Phodian Hive Warrior is useful there! 6pts cheaper than warrior with same wargear and upgrades but without Phodian Hive Warrior special rule.
Still I need know what / where can I find rule about maw-claws and cannon. EDIT - Ninjas ! Bah.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/21 20:01:47
2015/05/22 11:41:51
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Just look in Tyranids wargear... Miasma Cannon is strength 1!?
Can anyone tell me why this is good? Re-roll on 2+ and 6 to wound a space marines....already ID space marine if this tyrant are part of node....
Maw-claws can take prefer enemy if kill first model... Include rending for extra 5 pts.. Maybe not bad but what if it got innate understanding? Such a waste if you just re-roll and got that...
2015/05/22 12:09:16
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
If there are no (number+) mean re-roll on 6? Don't made a sense....
It means that it always wounds on the number+, in this case it always wounds in a roll of 2+. If there is no number+ then it is considered 4+.
The re-roll only happens if the strength is greater than the toughness of the target, which is impossible for S1.
2015/05/22 14:16:36
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
How come it is impossible to wound a space marine with T4 use miasma cannon? Can wound on 2+... If space marine cuddle each other we just kill 8 men unless we roll a 1s... Prefer enemy can help with that(!)
And toughness of 10 we can wound on 2+ with miasma cannon?
That was much better than venom cannon..
No, don't listen to this spoiler.... If you did read it then read below..
EDIT
Spoiler:
I just have answer in my own question!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/22 15:57:22
2015/05/22 17:35:58
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
SBG wrote: So, I have a thought regarding Raveners. How does everyone feel about them if supported by Venomthropes (cover), The Swarmlord (furious charge/psychic support), and 3 deep striking dakkafexes in spores? Thinking of running about 18 of them, in a few squads.
More for a fun game, but it's something I've been wanting to try out, since Raveners can't get combat biomorphs.
Raveners are great. If Imperial Knights and Wraith Lord / Knights weren't a thing we might even see them finding their way into lists.
Personally, I think it is best to accompany Raveners with Shrikes for Synapse. Malanthropes can work, but Shrikes can keep up easier, and can take biomorphs and BS + LW for situational superiority.
If you don't want to run Malanthropes, you should put that Venom in a box (Bastion). If you are feeling really gutsy buy an escape hatch and 2 squads of 1 Venom. That way you can advance them upfield with the raveners.
The Swarmlord is very points inefficient. Use flyrants instead.
I've experimented with Raveners and Shrikes a bit (was running 6 of each, all with RC) but found them pretty lacklustre, at least in those numbers. I would like to try something like:
9 Raveners, 6 RC 9 Raveners, 6 RC 9 Shrikes, 6 RC, 3 LWBS, Flesh Hooks
Malanthrope in Bunkerwith Escape Hatch
But that clocks in at 1156 points... It's a hell of a lot.Still, adding a Skytyrant and/or Manufactorum Genes and having a full on rush army sounds pretty fun...
The other thing I want to try is running MSU Raveners/Shrikes - something like lots of units of 3, presumably with Leviathan+CAD to allow 6 units of fast moving assaulty threats that you can't reduce under 25%.
2015/05/22 20:25:28
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
krootman. wrote: Soo my road to the nova open officially started Yesterday morning, which means its list building time!
So after reading basic primer, my first idea is msu bugs, my thoughts on lictors lately is they have been fantastic, but I always wish I had more of them, and when you read nova missions malwocs seem underwhelming most of the time.
So here is my first draft of bugs for the nova open
Cad
flyrant 240
Malenthrope 85
lictor 50
3 ripper swarm with deep strike 45
3 ripper swarm with deep strike 45
3 spore mines 15
Bunker with coms 75
This list has the ability to be whereever it wants, the -1 ld bonus deathleaper and his lictors provide will come in handy vs msu and I have some deep striking obsec that could come in handy from time to time.
Very interesting Nid list, good for the obj heavy Nova missions. Want to test play it against my daemons?
2015/05/22 21:32:11
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Hive Fleet Detachment and Skyblight Eternal War is about keeping your guys alive till turn five so 7 FMC's and respawning Gargoyles should be sufficient to last the game
YMDC = nightmare
2015/05/22 22:46:45
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Hive Fleet Detachment and Skyblight Eternal War is about keeping your guys alive till turn five so 7 FMC's and respawning Gargoyles should be sufficient to last the game
At 1650 it is literally just 3 flyrants, venom, 3 Mucoloids, and skyblight. And those 30 gargoyles don't do the job in the long run for scoring without any back up.
krootman. wrote: Soo my road to the nova open officially started Yesterday morning, which means its list building time!
So after reading basic primer, my first idea is msu bugs, my thoughts on lictors lately is they have been fantastic, but I always wish I had more of them, and when you read nova missions malwocs seem underwhelming most of the time.
So here is my first draft of bugs for the nova open
Cad
flyrant 240
Malenthrope 85
lictor 50
3 ripper swarm with deep strike 45
3 ripper swarm with deep strike 45
3 spore mines 15
Bunker with coms 75
This list has the ability to be whereever it wants, the -1 ld bonus deathleaper and his lictors provide will come in handy vs msu and I have some deep striking obsec that could come in handy from time to time.
Very interesting Nid list, good for the obj heavy Nova missions. Want to test play it against my daemons?
Alright, I'm free every night next week accept tues If you want to test
Hive Fleet Detachment and Skyblight Eternal War is about keeping your guys alive till turn five so 7 FMC's and respawning Gargoyles should be sufficient to last the game
A lot of people let the gargs get down to 2 or 3 models, then just shoot them off the table last turn of the game :/
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/23 00:32:23
2015/05/23 01:53:31
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Hive Fleet Detachment and Skyblight Eternal War is about keeping your guys alive till turn five so 7 FMC's and respawning Gargoyles should be sufficient to last the game
A lot of people let the gargs get down to 2 or 3 models, then just shoot them off the table last turn of the game :/
If you have multiple DS rippers with obsec you have some decent scoring potential there too.. Take second turn so you can drop your fliers if need be, and deepstrike some of the gargoyles from the start perhaps?
2015/05/23 13:24:12
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Am I right in thinking the Barbed Hierodule is the best anti tank in the Tyranid army.
12 shots at 48" S10. With 6 being able to split fire.
You can easily take down 2 vehicles per turn with average rolling.
Granted it is 565 points.
2015/05/23 13:36:10
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
And it's one Wraithknight or WolfStar to the face from being dead. I just don't think at 565 points with the amount of D out their now, it pulls its weiight now.
Barby is also missing half of his shots every shooting phase. I would pass simply due to him no longer being worth his points. Imperial knights and stomped will eat him in CC. Wraith knights are going to using D weapons against him for half his costs. Only way I would run mine is if I bring swarmlord for perfected enemy.
2015/05/23 14:15:50
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
jpevansiii wrote: Barby is also missing half of his shots every shooting phase. I would pass simply due to him no longer being worth his points. Imperial knights and stomped will eat him in CC. Wraith knights are going to using D weapons against him for half his costs. Only way I would run mine is if I bring swarmlord for perfected enemy.
Which at 1650 points is a massive points sink into something that can just be one shot away from dead.
Because of the Special Rule, it might be viable....255 if I take it. Thoughts? 
The Toxin is not a waste in my eyes because the Special Rule gives all poison attacks IK on a 6 (or 5-6 if they have IK 6) so I view it as a cheap Bone Sword. 
