Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 15:45:03
Subject: The Swarmlord
|
 |
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice
|
I'll let you know when I see a hormagaunt. It's been a long time since I have actually seen one in a game. The only way they work is if you build a horde around them. In which case it's your problem you can keep synapse up with them.
Edit. I do see your point, it's just getting old in these threads. I know it sucks they didn't improve, but even had they remained the same no one takes them so rippers and horms are rather moot at least.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/13 15:47:25
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 16:44:46
Subject: The Swarmlord
|
 |
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut
|
Now don't forget that Tyrant guards auto-pass Look Out Sir test, wich can give him a bit more durability.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 16:48:08
Subject: The Swarmlord
|
 |
Boosting Black Templar Biker
|
Slayer le boucher wrote:Now don't forget that Tyrant guards auto-pass Look Out Sir test, wich can give him a bit more durability.
This also means that the Swarmlord's unit can be granted cover by gaunts as long as there's still at least one guard left. Gaunts will cover 25% of a guard, and if the unit tries to use Focus Fire on the Swarmlord, who would not have cover, the guard automatically LOS all of the shots.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 17:29:17
Subject: The Swarmlord
|
 |
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
|
Not to mention with a Venomthrope near by(preferably out of LoS) that cover save goes up
|
Tyranids will consume the universe!!! There is no chance for survival!!
.........eventually anyways......... |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 21:32:51
Subject: The Swarmlord
|
 |
Raging Ravener
|
50%?
first there's the Ld test at Ld 6: 21-36 times it fails (59%)
Then the random table: 1/2 times (makes 30%)
Then you take 10 wounds, 8 dead (8/20) makes 12%
Now I won;t say you want to run your Hormagants without Synapse, but it is not as bad as you make it sound
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 21:45:13
Subject: The Swarmlord
|
 |
The Hive Mind
|
feluca wrote:50%?
first there's the Ld test at Ld 6: 21-36 times it fails (59%)
Then the random table: 1/2 times (makes 30%)
Then you take 10 wounds, 8 dead (8/20) makes 12%
Now I won;t say you want to run your Hormagants without Synapse, but it is not as bad as you make it sound
Half the times you fail Synapse you lose half your unit.
And then you take a Morale test because you lose more than 25% of the unit - with another 59% chance to fail.
It's dumb that the creature was designed with eating the cannibalism as an instinct.
|
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 22:04:24
Subject: Re:The Swarmlord
|
 |
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
|
The Swarmlord isn't and has never been terrible. If there's a negative to be found, it's that he's expensive and slower than the Flyrant. Peeps can say that he took a nerf here or there from the previous codex and the loss of biomancy, but he'll still be one of the scariest models on the table, and that doesn't go hand-in-hand with the description of "terrible."
An inefficient use of the HQ slot in comparison to other options? Possibly. A unit that's not worthy of playing on the table? Hardly.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 22:11:40
Subject: The Swarmlord
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
Nate668 wrote:
This also means that the Swarmlord's unit can be granted cover by gaunts as long as there's still at least one guard left. Gaunts will cover 25% of a guard,
25% is irrelevant. Shooting through a unit always grants a 5+ cover save regardless of any model actually being in the way.
|
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 23:46:19
Subject: Re:The Swarmlord
|
 |
Infiltrating Broodlord
|
Voidwraith wrote:The Swarmlord isn't and has never been terrible. If there's a negative to be found, it's that he's expensive and slower than the Flyrant. Peeps can say that he took a nerf here or there from the previous codex and the loss of biomancy, but he'll still be one of the scariest models on the table, and that doesn't go hand-in-hand with the description of "terrible."
An inefficient use of the HQ slot in comparison to other options? Possibly. A unit that's not worthy of playing on the table? Hardly.
Quantity and quality of damage is irrelevant if he has no way to apply it.
I could put a S10, AP1 armourbane flesh bane assault 25 weapon in the game and still make it suck, even though it would be the most powerful weapon in the game.
|
Looking for Durham Region gamers in Ontario Canada, send me a PM!
See my gallery for Chapterhouse's Tervigon, fully painted.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 23:58:24
Subject: The Swarmlord
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
Veteran of The Long War wrote:And... Swarmlord has lost his crown, now it's Abaddon, Skarbrand, and Be'lakor fighting for the best duelist in the game.
Oh no...he's not #1 in close combat anymore? Big deal. He also does more for his army than either Abaddon or Skarbrand. They are a touch fightier, but are in no way a force multiplier like the Swarmlord.
Even then, with a nearby Venomthrope, some TG with Lash Whips, he's still going to eat most things in close combat. Cast a few buffs on him and he'll be ridiculous to try and bring down while soaking up most of the enemy's fire. That allows the rest of the [now cheaper] threats to hit home.
Probably only suitable in games of 1999+1 or higher, but still not terrible.
He isn't worse, he's just different. People automatically equate different to worse, but that's because the majority of the player base is unimaginative. This is the same group that said the Helldrake and Riptide were bad when they first came out. In the minds of the lowest common denominator, a codex update should use all the previous entries as the "low bar" and bump everything up from there; all while lowering the points cost. The problem with their line of thinking is that they fail to accept that 6th edition is different from 5th. S6 and S7 weapons are now the sweet spot, not S8; there are fewer vehicles than before, and virtually no parking lots; models are getting bigger, and thus there needs to be more/taller terrain everywhere; objectives are more important, as is the movement phase; synergy and force multipliers are pertinent - the game is no longer about finding the mathematically most killy unit in the FO and spamming it to max. Each unit doesn't function in isolation anymore, and thus varied lists are just better.
One has to consider what the Swarmlord does in this rules set, against the 6th edition armies. Comparing him to what his 5th edition rules were designed to do, in the 5th edition version of the game, and what he accidentally did with the addition of BRB psychic powers is not an accurate means of comparison. Remember that Biomancy wasn't originally a part of the Swarmlord, and then what did you do when you only bought one Tyrant Guard but didn't roll Iron Arm or Endurance? I only had that happen 4 straight games...
This book is better than the last one. Period. Biomancy was the only thing keeping that previous piece of crap alive, while 2/3 of it's units were still unplayable. 3 monsters that were impossible to kill does not a good or fun army make.
Now I can saturate the board with threat overload because most of our stuff got cheaper, more interesting, and faster (thanks to Adrenal Glands everywhere).
rigeld2 wrote: feluca wrote:50%?
first there's the Ld test at Ld 6: 21-36 times it fails (59%)
Then the random table: 1/2 times (makes 30%)
Then you take 10 wounds, 8 dead (8/20) makes 12%
Now I won;t say you want to run your Hormagants without Synapse, but it is not as bad as you make it sound
Half the times you fail Synapse you lose half your unit.
And then you take a Morale test because you lose more than 25% of the unit - with another 59% chance to fail.
It's dumb that the creature was designed with eating the cannibalism as an instinct.
You just did some really bad math. They don't eat themselves that often.
Furthermore, it isn't really "cannibalism" to Tyranids. I would wager no Tyranid "knows" that another Tyranid is their kin. They are instructed to consume biomass, and the Hive Mind is probably the only thing that keeps them from eating each other all the time. When they break contact with Synapse, they just instinctively attack anything living.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/14 00:03:25
My favorite new podcast: https://firstturngaming.podbean.com/
Current Projects: (Oct 24, 2021) Completed Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh, now working on Be'Lakor
CHECK OUT THE GALLERY AND SERVICE OPTIONS!!! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/14 00:08:03
Subject: The Swarmlord
|
 |
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
OK
|
rollawaythestone wrote:
He's just as vunerable to ID as any other thing in the game but still has his 4+ Invuln. Eternal Warrior is the rare unicorn of 6E.
Eternal warrior is rare for some codexes.
Eldar have like 5 eternal warriors (to be fair the rule was invented for them), and Space Marines have 2 eternal warriors plus an efficient way to give it to any IC.
|
Argel Tal and Cyrene: Still a better love story than Twilight |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/14 00:30:24
Subject: The Swarmlord
|
 |
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet
|
brassangel wrote:Veteran of The Long War wrote:And... Swarmlord has lost his crown, now it's Abaddon, Skarbrand, and Be'lakor fighting for the best duelist in the game.
This is the same group that said the Helldrake and Riptide were bad when they first came out.
Heldrakes didn't have a turret when they were released, which put them from "good, but competing with Spawn and Nurgle Bikers" to "OMGWTFBROKEN!!!" For that matter though, it was pretty obvious off the bat though that Heldrakes were good, they just weren't broken until the FAQ. And who ever said that Riptides were bad when the book came out...? I can't ever recall that... now Wraithknights, I still stand by my assessment that they aren't worth it (and are only truly survivable when you have threat overload).
brassangel wrote:One has to consider what the Swarmlord does in this rules set, against the 6th edition armies. Comparing him to what his 5th edition rules were designed to do, in the 5th edition version of the game, and what he accidentally did with the addition of BRB psychic powers is not an accurate means of comparison. Remember that Biomancy wasn't originally a part of the Swarmlord, and then what did you do when you only bought one Tyrant Guard but didn't roll Iron Arm or Endurance? I only had that happen 4 straight games...
If you'll recall 5th edition, nobody took the Swarmlord then. And now he's using almost the same stats as he did then. 285pts + Tyrant Guards just feels like way too large a point sink, whereas with Biomancy he at least could justify his cost.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/14 12:52:53
Subject: The Swarmlord
|
 |
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
Grand Rapids Metro
|
feluca wrote:50%?
first there's the Ld test at Ld 6: 21-36 times it fails (59%)
Then the random table: 1/2 times (makes 30%)
Then you take 10 wounds, 8 dead (8/20) makes 12%
Now I won;t say you want to run your Hormagants without Synapse, but it is not as bad as you make it sound
Thanks...glad someone else can do the maths.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/14 15:01:06
Subject: The Swarmlord
|
 |
Boosting Black Templar Biker
|
ductvader wrote: feluca wrote:50%?
first there's the Ld test at Ld 6: 21-36 times it fails (59%)
Then the random table: 1/2 times (makes 30%)
Then you take 10 wounds, 8 dead (8/20) makes 12%
Now I won;t say you want to run your Hormagants without Synapse, but it is not as bad as you make it sound
Thanks...glad someone else can do the maths.
That last part is a little misleading, though. You don't have a 12% chance to lose a hormagaunt, you have a 30% chance to lose 40% of your hormagaunts.
|
|
 |
 |
|