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Having recently restarted my boiler, re-equipped my goggles and brought out my Juggernaut plush toy I wish to expand my Khadoran force.


Currently I only have a few units, a Kodiak, Juggernaut, Destroyer, IFP, Winter Guard Mortar and Widowmakers, all lead by the lovable pButcher.


Whilst I'm learning the ropes and slowly expanding my forces, I'm also looking for another caster to give me a different taste. I was thinking one of the Irusks.


But which Irusk is the one for me? I've looked at BattleCollege and I'm slightly towards the side of eIrusk, but does anyone actually have any battle experience with Khador's greatest general?

If you want a completely different taste, you could run vlad 3 with a whole mess of cavalry. No idea how effective it would be but it would certainly look cool on the table.

Both Irusks are really intriguing. I was about to start a Khador force with one of them, but never decided which.

Then my Brother started Khador so I traded the khador stuff I had for other gaming things.

 welshhoppo wrote:

Whilst I'm learning the ropes and slowly expanding my forces, I'm also looking for another caster to give me a different taste. I was thinking one of the Irusks.
But which Irusk is the one for me? I've looked at BattleCollege and I'm slightly towards the side of eIrusk, but does anyone actually have any battle experience with Khador's greatest general?

I play both extensively. They're both great, but different. I could not personally say who is best, but I do prefer p-irusk at 25, and e-irusk at 50. E-irusk ideally needs more stuff and a larger points size - he scales better than p-irusk IMO, he gets better as the game size increases.

P-irusk is an infantry-centric support caster. He's a decently stated (all the right numbers in def, arm, focus etc) toolbox with something for all situations. Of note is superiority, which makes a single jack amazing (speed, mat and def boost), iron flesh, which is still an excellent defensive buff paired with winter guard (def17 with other tricks), iron fangs (normal, or the black dragons - def 16 arm22 for a turn is amazing) or else on others such as kommandos, or kayazy. You've got battle lust to buff your damage output as well.You should rate lots of infantry to get the most out of these spells, and your feat (further accuracy boost, knockdown immunity and 4+ tough. Last trick is inhospitable ground. 14" bubble of difficult terrain. Situational, but it's won me games against menoth and other slow factions in the past.

P-irusk is solid on all accounts. He won't surprise anyone, but he is hugely effective.

E-irusk is technically speaking, my favourite khadoran caster. Epic butcher is my favourite in terms of fluff and joy, but in terns of reliability, it's e-irusk. And the thing is, not many share my opinion on him. For dome reason, he is a hugely under rated, and under appreciated caster win in my books, he's top tier. Well. I do know the reason - no iron flesh! But look at what he has. Situational def buff for a bonded jack. Def12 spriggan might not sound impressive, but if it lowers the odds of banes hitting any bit, it's a plus! He does all the traditional khadoran stuff - buff survive ability (10" tough bubble), and damage output (battle lust), but look at his other tricks. Fire for effect put this on the mortar. Or black Ivan.Boosted hit rolls and boosted damage rolls. Gold. Artifice of deviation. 4" aoe of no rough terrain/rough terrain. It's not inhospitable ground, but it's solid control. It stops the other guy getting places, or it helps you get there. Gold. Tactical supremacy. 3" move for a unit/model at the end if your turn. Utter gold. Combined with martial discipline - where you can move, shoot and charge through your small and medium based models.stop and think for a second. You've got a wall of meno war. Blocking tramples and Los to your guys. But not for you. You can shoot, or charge through them. Then use tactical supremacy to push that arm21 wall back out in front again to soak up hits and block Los again. You can use it to close up charge lanes that expose your caster. These two features let e-irusk give a game of mobility shenanigans to a faction that dies not really get to do it. He completely rewrites the play book, and gives khador a huge amount of extra trickery you normally will not see. But the best part? His feat. -2 spd, no running or charging. And it affects models/units. Clip one guy in a unit, and they're all affected. What does it mean? It means e-irusk always controls the battleground. Going first or second - it doesn't matter. Play it right, and you're the one with the alpha strike. It means you're the one controlling the game, and acting on the front foot all the time.nit lets you deliver the hits, avoid the counter and repeat, and hopefully attrition the other guy to such an extent that he can't counter punch. I used his feat (with a1" push up the board from energiser) to clip a guys whole army with the feat on turn 1 after he went first. Needless to say, spent a turn hustling up the board, waited out his turn where he could do jack all, and then tore the throat out of his army on turn two.

E-irusk is a top tier caster who helps completely redefine what khador does. Rather than being an infantry centric attrition caster, he's a control, denial and movement/manipulation support caster.nHe's the dude give him a jack like black Ivan, or a destroyer, spriggan, and he's solid. He likes wyshnayler, as he's got a fair few up keeps. Beyond that? Strangely, he makes men o war solid, tanks to ts and md, and I'd always run a full squad with him. Beyond that, you've got the usual,suspects. I usually run the great bears, Nysa hunters with v, widowmakers, and a drakhun. Ive run him with doomies, winter guard, kayazy and iron fangs and he gets huge mileage out of all of them.

Interesting assessment on eIrusk. I can never understand why MoW are so good with him. He provides them with tough and the little bit of extra movement which I suppose is all they really need but I have always felt that eIrusk supports lots of combined arms infantry more since he grants them all tough.

I have always had more success with pIrusk. IMHO, he has the perfect blend of spells and feat. Everything he has works absolutely perfectly in a khador list. I generally run him with Winterguard and either Kayazy or IFP. Kayazy get insanely dangerous with him. Iron flesh makes them a nightmare to hit, battle lust makes them into effective POW12 weapon masters, his feat bumps their MAT up to 10, and they can just walk right through enemy models to kill the squishy center, and then survive due to the extra tough rolls.

He is the definition of a Khador warcaster.

Personally, I prefer O.G. Irusk to the new school version, but based on your collection, you might want the Supreme Kommandant. He's slightly more jack friendly, so you should be able to do straight caster swap.

KingKodo wrote:
Interesting assessment on eIrusk. I can never understand why MoW are so good with him. He provides them with tough and the little bit of extra movement which I suppose is all they really need but I have always felt that eIrusk supports lots of combined arms infantry more since he grants them all tough.
.

its a two way street, really.

What does Irusk give Men o War? Speed, via tactical supremacy (9" shield wall with the Kovnik, or 11" running). And surviveability, in the form of tough.it brings a unit that many see as being a bit lacking, and brings them to the forefront of the game. they're contenders, all of a sudden.

What do Men o War give eIrusk? a 10" wall of medium base that blocks LOS for a start! which you can see through, shoot through, and charge through. and which you can push back up front at the end of the turn. What Men o War give eirusk is a viable anvil. they're solidly stated, especialy with shielddwall. Arm21, 8 hits, and tough. I find since colossals has hit, the stock of medium based multiwound infantry has risen. what kills a winter guardsmen bounces off a man o war. i find a solid wall of medium based infantry adds a lot to a player's game. its not easy to go through them (especially with eIrusk's feat giving you the first strike most times!) Men o war aren't there to kill stuff, they're "tanks". they're there to soak up the hits, whilst something else does the killing.

I've often used the MoW brick to soak up the attacks, block LOS to stuff behind it, and use their area denial as a safe staging ground from which to launch my attacks, before reforming the wall with them.

KingKodo wrote:

I have always had more success with pIrusk. IMHO, he has the perfect blend of spells and feat. Everything he has works absolutely perfectly in a khador list. I generally run him with Winterguard and either Kayazy or IFP. Kayazy get insanely dangerous with him. Iron flesh makes them a nightmare to hit, battle lust makes them into effective POW12 weapon masters, his feat bumps their MAT up to 10, and they can just walk right through enemy models to kill the squishy center, and then survive due to the extra tough rolls.

He is the definition of a Khador warcaster.

and yet, everything pirusk does, eirusk can also do. buff damage? yup. buff surviveability? yup. 5+ tough all game, or 4+ tough once? airbust? yup. area denial? yup. Now add to that a brutal control feat that stops whole armies dead. add to that mobility shenanigans (you're charging through your own models?), terrain manipulation (AoD) and you've got a caster who does the typical khadoran game, but also brings stuff to the table that no other khadoran caster does.

I'll agree with you. pIrusk is great. he is obviously good. eirusk? not so obvious. He's not as obvious as his prime incarnation. But with a bit of digging, he shines. With a bit of digging, he offers more. Like i said, he is hugely underestimated, and under appreciated.

Deadnight wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:

Whilst I'm learning the ropes and slowly expanding my forces, I'm also looking for another caster to give me a different taste. I was thinking one of the Irusks.
But which Irusk is the one for me? I've looked at BattleCollege and I'm slightly towards the side of eIrusk, but does anyone actually have any battle experience with Khador's greatest general?

I play both extensively. They're both great, but different. I could not personally say who is best, but I do prefer p-irusk at 25, and e-irusk at 50. E-irusk ideally needs more stuff and a larger points size - he scales better than p-irusk IMO, he gets better as the game size increases.

P-irusk is an infantry-centric support caster. He's a decently stated (all the right numbers in def, arm, focus etc) toolbox with something for all situations. Of note is superiority, which makes a single jack amazing (speed, mat and def boost), iron flesh, which is still an excellent defensive buff paired with winter guard (def17 with other tricks), iron fangs (normal, or the black dragons - def 16 arm22 for a turn is amazing) or else on others such as kommandos, or kayazy. You've got battle lust to buff your damage output as well.You should rate lots of infantry to get the most out of these spells, and your feat (further accuracy boost, knockdown immunity and 4+ tough. Last trick is inhospitable ground. 14" bubble of difficult terrain. Situational, but it's won me games against menoth and other slow factions in the past.

P-irusk is solid on all accounts. He won't surprise anyone, but he is hugely effective.

E-irusk is technically speaking, my favourite khadoran caster. Epic butcher is my favourite in terms of fluff and joy, but in terns of reliability, it's e-irusk. And the thing is, not many share my opinion on him. For dome reason, he is a hugely under rated, and under appreciated caster win in my books, he's top tier. Well. I do know the reason - no iron flesh! But look at what he has. Situational def buff for a bonded jack. Def12 spriggan might not sound impressive, but if it lowers the odds of banes hitting any bit, it's a plus! He does all the traditional khadoran stuff - buff survive ability (10" tough bubble), and damage output (battle lust), but look at his other tricks. Fire for effect put this on the mortar. Or black Ivan.Boosted hit rolls and boosted damage rolls. Gold. Artifice of deviation. 4" aoe of no rough terrain/rough terrain. It's not inhospitable ground, but it's solid control. It stops the other guy getting places, or it helps you get there. Gold. Tactical supremacy. 3" move for a unit/model at the end if your turn. Utter gold. Combined with martial discipline - where you can move, shoot and charge through your small and medium based models.stop and think for a second. You've got a wall of meno war. Blocking tramples and Los to your guys. But not for you. You can shoot, or charge through them. Then use tactical supremacy to push that arm21 wall back out in front again to soak up hits and block Los again. You can use it to close up charge lanes that expose your caster. These two features let e-irusk give a game of mobility shenanigans to a faction that dies not really get to do it. He completely rewrites the play book, and gives khador a huge amount of extra trickery you normally will not see. But the best part? His feat. -2 spd, no running or charging. And it affects models/units. Clip one guy in a unit, and they're all affected. What does it mean? It means e-irusk always controls the battleground. Going first or second - it doesn't matter. Play it right, and you're the one with the alpha strike. It means you're the one controlling the game, and acting on the front foot all the time.nit lets you deliver the hits, avoid the counter and repeat, and hopefully attrition the other guy to such an extent that he can't counter punch. I used his feat (with a1" push up the board from energiser) to clip a guys whole army with the feat on turn 1 after he went first. Needless to say, spent a turn hustling up the board, waited out his turn where he could do jack all, and then tore the throat out of his army on turn two.

E-irusk is a top tier caster who helps completely redefine what khador does. Rather than being an infantry centric attrition caster, he's a control, denial and movement/manipulation support caster.nHe's the dude give him a jack like black Ivan, or a destroyer, spriggan, and he's solid. He likes wyshnayler, as he's got a fair few up keeps. Beyond that? Strangely, he makes men o war solid, tanks to ts and md, and I'd always run a full squad with him. Beyond that, you've got the usual,suspects. I usually run the great bears, Nysa hunters with v, widowmakers, and a drakhun. Ive run him with doomies, winter guard, kayazy and iron fangs and he gets huge mileage out of all of them.

That massive wall of text makes me want to marry you and have your babies.


I'm going towards eIrusk I think, I want something different yet fun, and I think he is fitting the bill.


Or I may just get both, if I can stand up to my girlfriend that is.

 welshhoppo wrote:

Or I may just get both, if I can stand up to my girlfriend that is.

If you marry Deadnight, you won't need to.

Deadnight wrote:


and yet, everything pirusk does, eirusk can also do. buff damage? yup. buff surviveability? yup. 5+ tough all game, or 4+ tough once? airbust? yup. area denial? yup. Now add to that a brutal control feat that stops whole armies dead. add to that mobility shenanigans (you're charging through your own models?), terrain manipulation (AoD) and you've got a caster who does the typical khadoran game, but also brings stuff to the table that no other khadoran caster does.

I'll agree with you. pIrusk is great. he is obviously good. eirusk? not so obvious. He's not as obvious as his prime incarnation. But with a bit of digging, he shines. With a bit of digging, he offers more. Like i said, he is hugely underestimated, and under appreciated.

He does some of the things that pIrusk does, but not all, and certainly not as well. He sacrifices many of the more solid support for more movement shenanigans. pIrusk's supremacy is distinctly superior to eIrusk's bond, Artifice of deviation trades the army blanketing rough terrain to give your troops pathfinder in a much smaller area. eIrusk also lacks our staple annoying buff spell of Iron Flesh as well as a decent damage spell although you generally are too busy to really cast Grind, but it is a very powerful spell. I think pIrusk performs better as the iconic "grind you to death with tougher and harder hitting units" style that Khador is known for, whereas eIrusk is probably better at scenario and assassination victories due to all the movement tools and that big denial feat. I know how lethal a SPD debuff on the entire enemy army can be since I play Gorten Grundback, difference here is, they cant run, they cant shieldwall, and they cant CRA which normally negates Gorten's feat.

KingKodo wrote:

He does some of the things that pIrusk does, but not all, and certainly not as well. He sacrifices many of the more solid support for more movement shenanigans. pIrusk's supremacy is distinctly superior to eIrusk's bond, Artifice of deviation trades the army blanketing rough terrain to give your troops pathfinder in a much smaller area. eIrusk also lacks our staple annoying buff spell of Iron Flesh as well as a decent damage spell although you generally are too busy to really cast Grind, but it is a very powerful spell. I think pIrusk performs better as the iconic "grind you to death with tougher and harder hitting units" style that Khador is known for, whereas eIrusk is probably better at scenario and assassination victories due to all the movement tools and that big denial feat. I know how lethal a SPD debuff on the entire enemy army can be since I play Gorten Grundback, difference here is, they cant run, they cant shieldwall, and they cant CRA which normally negates Gorten's feat.

I disagree. I don't see e-irusk 'sacrificing' anything, let alone 'solid support'.

On supremacy - it's awesome It makes a single jack great. That said, e-irusk doesn't play the same game. Supremacy is great for a melee jack, but offers nothing for a ranged game. E-irusk likes to play the ranged game with his jacks. Energiser for movement and repositioning. Fire for effect. On a conquest, black ivam or destroyer? Gold. No knockdown, and plus two def? Again, very useful. So, on the whole, separate but equal, if you ask me.
On artifice of deviation. Inhospitable ground is a great spell, but useless against factions that are natively pathfinder. But I think you're selling aod short - it's not just pathfinder in a small area. Combine it with his feat and you can ignore forests and clouds for Los and also charge right through obstructions and other models like they weren't there. Think about that for a second. You're charging right through forests, like they weren't even there. Add to that event models treat the 5' aoe as rough terrain.

On iron flesh. Overhyped, especially since colossals. Pp have been pushing the game in a direction where the stock of high def simply isn't the thing it used to be. Too many things counter it, deal with it, or flat out ignore it. And to be fair, e-irusk has a 10" tough bubble on everything, which is easily put on a par, if not arguably better than if on one unit.

Thing is p-irusk is great at grinding. He is solid, but un imaginative. He plays a straight forward, simple game. He is obvious though. Grind, batter and win. He has limited tricks and shenanigans. You'll see him coming. And you can get the drop on him. He plays the piece trading game, and needs that, along with favourable piece trading to cone out ahead. The question becomes can you avoid the sledgehammer before it falls. E-irusk plays the same buff survive ability and damage output game, but couples it to movement and repositioning mastery, with a better focus on a ranged game, non linear threat vectors, utterly brutal control feat that let's him control, and dominate the game, whether he goes first if second, to a degree that p-irusk simply cannot hope to match.

I love p-irusk. He is a great toolbox caster. Easily one of my go-to's for tournaments. But my thoughts have not changed. He is solid, but obvious. E-irusk isn't obvious. But he has far greater depth, and flexibility, if you ask me, and offers a lot more options. He asks far more questions, and has lots of answers.

I feel supremacy is still significantly better. You gain KD immune in exchange for SPD and MAT in a faction where their ranged jacks are mediocre at best and have poor SPD and MAT.His bond does absolutely nothing for a conquest wwhereas supremacy makes it incredible so I find it interesting that you even mentioned it. I think the only benefit he gets out of his bond is with black Ivan since he can buff DEF and still give give him FFE...but I don't think he can bond with black Ivan since its a character jack...

Correct. eIrusk cannot bond with Black Ivan.

KingKodo wrote:
I feel supremacy is still significantly better. You gain KD immune in exchange for SPD and MAT in a faction where their ranged jacks are mediocre at best and have poor SPD and MAT.His bond does absolutely nothing for a conquest wwhereas supremacy makes it incredible so I find it interesting that you even mentioned it. I think the only benefit he gets out of his bond is with black Ivan since he can buff DEF and still give give him FFE...but I don't think he can bond with black Ivan since its a character jack...

We've been doing it wrong. It's superiority, not supremacy! D'oh!

And do t get me wrong, it's fantastic. Slapping it on the behemoth is one of my favourite things to do.

I suppose I just don't see it as a downgrade because I don't play my jacks the same way with eirusk as I do with p-irusk. E-irusk is all about the ranged game with his jacks, whilst the infantry do the hamming. P-irusk uses his jack as a melee bruiser, and if it shoots, it's a nice extra. Really though, I see it as a case if two different things. Neither is better, because neither does the same thing.

Regarding the conquest and irusks bond - you're right. It is wasted. But i don't see the conquest as the best tool for e-irusk to bring either. I'd rather bring a destroyer, or spriggan personally

And superiority also prevents KD and it grants 2 SPD which combines the effect of energizer and the bond at the same time while costing only 1 focus. Superiority grants everything eIrusk's bond grants plus granting extra movement and MAT...

The only possible combination where Superiority is not hands down better than eIrusk's bond+energizer is when you are running multiple warjacks which you should probably never be doing with either Irusk as they are so infantry focused. With superiority, you will have more focus left over to cast all those other sexy spells since you are spending 1 focus to upkeep it rather than several focus for energizer just to compete with the movement bonus.

Besides, if you are NOT interested in running conquest, and would rather run a Sriggan, then it should be even more of a no brainer as Superiority is AMAZING on a spriggan and FFE is fairly wasted on him unless you have no other ranged weapons in your entire list.

Thank you everyone for all of your replies.


In the end, I think I am going to go with eIrusk for all his movement abilities and everything else. I think Fire for Effect will really cause the pain and engergizer and Tactical Supremacy allow for fast moving heavy units.

Although I may use pIrusk too at some point.