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Is anywhere mentioned weight of a Guard standart Heavy Bolter, Autocannon or Lascannon?

Or in refence to real weapons, how much it could be?

My toughts:
I'll use Sgt. Harker as an example. He can handle Heavy Bolter witn an ease. Codex says he's stronger than average Catachan, who is in common stronger than average Cadian.
It's like Vietnam era M60 Machine Gun. It weights about 11Kgs, but normal soldier could handle it without bigger problems. Which means, if Harker is significantly stronger than average human (Cadian), it must weight significantly more than M60.
My guess is about 20 to 30Kgs.


Thank you

It's much, much bigger than an M60. An M60 fires a 7.62mm round, a Heavy Bolter fires a 25mm round. Dark Heresy has the weights for a heavy bolter listed somewhere, but I don't have access to my books at the moment to check.

I can say that a lascannon weighs 55 kilograms, according to DH.

 Psienesis wrote:
It's much, much bigger than an M60. An M60 fires a 7.62mm round, a Heavy Bolter fires a 25mm round. Dark Heresy has the weights for a heavy bolter listed somewhere, but I don't have access to my books at the moment to check.

I can say that a lascannon weighs 55 kilograms, according to DH.

¨

Seems rather light. They're pretty big fethers.



On the other hand, the model scale is completely whacked so it would not surprise me if it wasn't that big.

55kg is still 100+ pounds for a weapon that is, basically, a giant flashlight.

It would also vary on which kind, because Imperial equipment is not always quite so standardized.

Probably being in the same weight class like this baby.
+/- a few kg.

Probably around there, yeah.

It depends a lot on the material. It also looks considerably bigger to me.

Its weight would only be that high on 1G worlds. Suspensors are noted throughout the fluff as being able to help with heavy weapons and if the model is on a light gravity world they could carry even a lascanno around relatively easily, if not stop it easily once it starts moving

 Flinty wrote:
Its weight would only be that high on 1G worlds. Suspensors are noted throughout the fluff as being able to help with heavy weapons and if the model is on a light gravity world they could carry even a lascanno around relatively easily, if not stop it easily once it starts moving

That may be right, but not every every Forgeworld/Hiveworld/etc is capable of building their weaponry with suspensors, so there is always a place for standard weight weapons.

a Heavy Bolter differs in size, and weight by the pattern.
but I would imagine they would generally be roughly the same as lugging one of these around.



its portable....ish. Its best fired from tripod or vehicle mounted (like a HB). If you were crazy strong you could in theory pick it up and fire it with modifications to the trigger and another hand hold on the body or barrel.
heck if you added a big blockly front end to it you have a HB....

the recoil would be like that of a heavy jackhammer, so being incredibly strong you could wield it....

 Engine of War wrote:
a Heavy Bolter differs in size, and weight by the pattern.
but I would imagine they would generally be roughly the same as lugging one of these around.



its portable....ish. Its best fired from tripod or vehicle mounted (like a HB). If you were crazy strong you could in theory pick it up and fire it with modifications to the trigger and another hand hold on the body or barrel.
heck if you added a big blockly front end to it you have a HB....

the recoil would be like that of a heavy jackhammer, so being incredibly strong you could wield it....

That cannot be fired standing... and putting your hand on the barrel when you fire will burn your hand so badly. Thats if you are standing after kick back. Even if you could stand and shoot it there is no way you would hit anything remotely far away. (i never model harker with a HMG, i think its crazy, i give him a lighter looking weapon).

the heavy stubber can be fired standing (like an a LMG)

Heavy Bolter is like a HMG, must be mounted or set up to be fired. I mean common, this weapon fires grenades... rapidly...

To the best of my knowledge you need to have specially modified weapons to fire them standing. Many LMGs have areas on the barrel to hold so you can fire standing (also helps when removing the barrel) but they also need to wear special gloves to fire it standing to avoid being burned. But firing a machine gun on the move isnt what they where made for, they can do it but i am very certain its advisable to have it set up so you can fire it to full effect. After all 1 machine gun is over a third of a teams fire power. Its vital that a machine gun is set up in the right place to provide its full effect. Shooting on the move is pretty wasteful.

However it does look pretty epic...

But its not just from weight as much as its impractical.

Remember, Harker is a beast of a man. He is much taller than the average guardsman, and he comes from a world with especially high gravity. He is built like Arnold Schwarzenegger in his youth, only broader and taller, with added grim-darkness and GW plot magic. It's still a bit silly that he can move and fire it accurately when a Space Marine can't, but that is GW special characters for you.

 Bonde wrote:
Remember, Harker is a beast of a man. He is much taller than the average guardsman, and he comes from a world with especially high gravity. He is built like Arnold Schwarzenegger in his youth, only broader and taller, with added grim-darkness and GW plot magic. It's still a bit silly that he can move and fire it accurately when a Space Marine can't, but that is GW special characters for you.

Weight isnt the only factor though. Its also a huge gun, how do you hold it in a way you can shoot it? He would have to have his own modified version for it to work. If at all. I prefer my men to be a little more beleivable personally.

Heavy Bolters weigh a lot. I mean, A LOT. Then consider the weight of the ammo. You have a gun capable of firing 1.5" caliber rounds, and a belt of at least a hundred of those rounds on your person....

There is a reason that IG weapons are modeled as crew-serviced guns.

Generally, heavy weapons are too big, too heavy, too cumbersome, and have too much recoil to be fired at the hip by one individual. Harker has a strength of 4, which is equivalent to a Space Marine. That should give you some idea of what kind of a mutant freak Harker is. If a strength of 3 is "average human" and 4 is "7ft tall genetically enhanced super warrior" just imagine how much strength it must take to hip shoot that heavy bolter. And the recoil. Ouch.

Well, SoB are known to carry heavy weapons on foot. There is, however, one catch: they have metal braces around the arm with which they carry them.
I think that's enough evidence to prove that your average human would be unable to carry a heavy weapon without some kind of brace or support.
Since they are roughly twice the weight as their assault counterparts, I'd say it's around 20-30kg for the heavy ones and 10-15 for the assault ones.

Especially the recoil would be an issue. Bolters are repeatedly stated between 'Recoil difficult for humans to handle' and 'if a normal human were to fire the boltgun, the resulting recoil would rip their arm from its socket.' (Talking about Astartes boltguns in the second one, mind.)

Imagine what a Heavy Bolter would do to your arm socket, lol.

Quite interesting discussion we got here.

Firing from a hip is one thing, weight of a gun second and recoil third.
Just imagine how kick .303cal, how .50cal and how 1.0cal Bolter round.
0,50cal is very difficult to shoot standing, now imagine 2 times bigger projectile.

(Just for fun, search Youtube for shooting .700 Nitro Express. )

I'm asking because I'm making a guy with handheld autocannon out of a Cadian. My first tought was creating someone as Harker. Now i decided to build an exoskeleton for him. It would be more realistic and fluff wise.

Thank you all

Edit// Sorry, my bad.

Incidentally, a HB is 1.0 cal, not 1.5cal. Standard boltround is .75cal.

depends on the model too, harker has a more compact looking SM version of the HB, compared to the larger pintle mounted one the guard have.

add to the fact that the scale is wayyyy off, the HB should be 1" caliber, but if you measure the scale model, its like 3"

but people saying 20-35kg or more seems about right.

 Psienesis wrote:
Incidentally, a HB is 1.0 cal, not 1.5cal. Standard boltround is .75cal.

I've seen it listed as 1.5" before. I think it varies a lot, depending on the source. Everyone seems to agree that bolters are .75", but FFG says 1" for HEavy B's while older (practically ancient) studio material said 1.5"...

Brother Michael wrote:
I think that's enough evidence to prove that your average human would be unable to carry a heavy weapon without some kind of brace or support.

Unable to carry is a bit of a stretch. The impression I had of the IG weapons teams is that when they move one carries the weapon, and the other carries the tripod/ammunition etc. Definatly very dam hard to fire without proper set up, and not something non-extraordinary people are going to be firing from the hip. There is precedence for single person heavy weapon users aside from Harrker though: back in the days of Necromunda a 'heavy' could wield his heavy weapon with the same (relative) ease as a space marine, and he didn't even need S4 to do it.

 Bonde wrote:
Remember, Harker is a beast of a man. He is much taller than the average guardsman, and he comes from a world with especially high gravity. He is built like Arnold Schwarzenegger in his youth, only broader and taller, with added grim-darkness and GW plot magic. It's still a bit silly that he can move and fire it accurately when a Space Marine can't, but that is GW special characters for you.

Catachan is a deathworld, but its not a high-g world. Also, I say again, Harker can fire his gun because suspensors exist in 40k.

 Psienesis wrote:
55kg is still 100+ pounds for a weapon that is, basically, a giant flashlight.

Lasers are incredibly bulky. Our modern day almost equal to the lascannon, the Thel laser, is well.



That's just the firing mechanism. The gigantic thing under is how the energy is generated, and all it does is pop missiles. It isn't even close to the point of boring holes through tanks and aircraft with no problem and nigh ignoring refracting problems with elements in the air. The fact that it weighs just a hundred plus pounds for what it does is astounding.

And heavy bolters don't function like normal 40mm cannons to my knowledge. They're rocket propelled. There's the initial kick of firing the round, then the blast as the rockets kick in. There might actually be less recoil in that aspect as you wouldn't need as much of a propellent to fire it down the field. Just enough to get it out the barrel and make it accelerate.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
55kg is still 100+ pounds for a weapon that is, basically, a giant flashlight.

Lasers are incredibly bulky. Our modern day almost equal to the lascannon, the Thel laser, is well.

Spoiler:

That's just the firing mechanism. The gigantic thing under is how the energy is generated, and all it does is pop missiles. It isn't even close to the point of boring holes through tanks and aircraft with no problem and nigh ignoring refracting problems with elements in the air. The fact that it weighs just a hundred plus pounds for what it does is astounding.

And heavy bolters don't function like normal 40mm cannons to my knowledge. They're rocket propelled. There's the initial kick of firing the round, then the blast as the rockets kick in. There might actually be less recoil in that aspect as you wouldn't need as much of a propellent to fire it down the field. Just enough to get it out the barrel and make it accelerate.

I heard one of the big problems of lasers is finding a way to dissipate the excess energy generated (or radiation cant remember).

But the rocket propelled thing is annoying as there is no exhaust or anything so the gun would be ruined along with the user. It would have to travel a decent distance away from the gun before it can jet off. But then without some form of guidence it would be far from accurite.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
55kg is still 100+ pounds for a weapon that is, basically, a giant flashlight.

Lasers are incredibly bulky. Our modern day almost equal to the lascannon, the Thel laser, is well.

Spoiler:

That's just the firing mechanism. The gigantic thing under is how the energy is generated, and all it does is pop missiles. It isn't even close to the point of boring holes through tanks and aircraft with no problem and nigh ignoring refracting problems with elements in the air. The fact that it weighs just a hundred plus pounds for what it does is astounding.

And heavy bolters don't function like normal 40mm cannons to my knowledge. They're rocket propelled. There's the initial kick of firing the round, then the blast as the rockets kick in. There might actually be less recoil in that aspect as you wouldn't need as much of a propellent to fire it down the field. Just enough to get it out the barrel and make it accelerate.

I heard one of the big problems of lasers is finding a way to dissipate the excess energy generated (or radiation cant remember).

But the rocket propelled thing is annoying as there is no exhaust or anything so the gun would be ruined along with the user. It would have to travel a decent distance away from the gun before it can jet off. But then without some form of guidence it would be far from accurite.

Easily done enough to guide the shell.

Really, we could build a functioning bolter in real life. Just that it's not exactly practical for us as we don't fight heavily armored xenos enemies. Or have access to admantanium for that matter, which is a crucial part of the bolt shell.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
55kg is still 100+ pounds for a weapon that is, basically, a giant flashlight.

Lasers are incredibly bulky. Our modern day almost equal to the lascannon, the Thel laser, is well.

Spoiler:

That's just the firing mechanism. The gigantic thing under is how the energy is generated, and all it does is pop missiles. It isn't even close to the point of boring holes through tanks and aircraft with no problem and nigh ignoring refracting problems with elements in the air. The fact that it weighs just a hundred plus pounds for what it does is astounding.

And heavy bolters don't function like normal 40mm cannons to my knowledge. They're rocket propelled. There's the initial kick of firing the round, then the blast as the rockets kick in. There might actually be less recoil in that aspect as you wouldn't need as much of a propellent to fire it down the field. Just enough to get it out the barrel and make it accelerate.

I heard one of the big problems of lasers is finding a way to dissipate the excess energy generated (or radiation cant remember).

But the rocket propelled thing is annoying as there is no exhaust or anything so the gun would be ruined along with the user. It would have to travel a decent distance away from the gun before it can jet off. But then without some form of guidence it would be far from accurite.

Spoiler:

Easily done enough to guide the shell.

Really, we could build a functioning bolter in real life. Just that it's not exactly practical for us as we don't fight heavily armored xenos enemies. Or have access to admantanium for that matter, which is a crucial part of the bolt shell.

That video didnt show the bolter round rockets going off though... (i couldnt have sound). But i am far from convinced the bolter will ever work without heaps of changes.

And imagine all your weapons being louder tracers (rockets produce a lot of noise and smoke) and when bullets already go far and hard enough there is no need for expensive rocket propelled shells. Your men will be louder and unable to hide. Death sentence guns for whoever is unfortunate enough to have one. Let alone how little ammo you would be able to carry. But Imperium is impractical.

But i definately wouldnt go as far to say the bolter would work in real life. Guns that fire that kind of size bullet are huge and need extreme colling and so on.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
55kg is still 100+ pounds for a weapon that is, basically, a giant flashlight.

Lasers are incredibly bulky. Our modern day almost equal to the lascannon, the Thel laser, is well.

Spoiler:

That's just the firing mechanism. The gigantic thing under is how the energy is generated, and all it does is pop missiles. It isn't even close to the point of boring holes through tanks and aircraft with no problem and nigh ignoring refracting problems with elements in the air. The fact that it weighs just a hundred plus pounds for what it does is astounding.

And heavy bolters don't function like normal 40mm cannons to my knowledge. They're rocket propelled. There's the initial kick of firing the round, then the blast as the rockets kick in. There might actually be less recoil in that aspect as you wouldn't need as much of a propellent to fire it down the field. Just enough to get it out the barrel and make it accelerate.

I heard one of the big problems of lasers is finding a way to dissipate the excess energy generated (or radiation cant remember).

But the rocket propelled thing is annoying as there is no exhaust or anything so the gun would be ruined along with the user. It would have to travel a decent distance away from the gun before it can jet off. But then without some form of guidence it would be far from accurite.

Spoiler:

Easily done enough to guide the shell.

Really, we could build a functioning bolter in real life. Just that it's not exactly practical for us as we don't fight heavily armored xenos enemies. Or have access to admantanium for that matter, which is a crucial part of the bolt shell.

That video didnt show the bolter round rockets going off though... (i couldnt have sound). But i am far from convinced the bolter will ever work without heaps of changes.

And imagine all your weapons being louder tracers (rockets produce a lot of noise and smoke) and when bullets already go far and hard enough there is no need for expensive rocket propelled shells. Your men will be louder and unable to hide. Death sentence guns for whoever is unfortunate enough to have one. Let alone how little ammo you would be able to carry. But Imperium is impractical.

But i definately wouldnt go as far to say the bolter would work in real life. Guns that fire that kind of size bullet are huge and need extreme colling and so on.

Oh no, it'd work. Just that it'd be useless in real life. Like how we have functioning laser arrays and railguns, just that they're in prototype or eat up so much energy and space they're not useful on modern battlefields. Also, while the video is good, I'd reckon that bolter shells are normally a lot longer than depicted rather than the fat shape of 40mm rounds. The IOM benefits from magitech and being 20,000 years more advanced than us.


Really, a bolt would look more like the above than a squat 40mm styled slug like in the video. Maybe even have fins that deploy after firing like with some modern rounds (guided sniper shells are a thing now).

As for what they use, bolters would actually be better than something like a lasgun or a lascannon. I'd rather have a tracer shell where it's still somewhat hard to tell where it came from that an intense laser that is typically described as being extremely bright and scarlet red that's a direct line from you and the target. There's really no 'stealth' for the Imperium unless you're using special commando teams or for Astartes, use suppressed bolters (haven't a fething clue how that works).

Ok hold up... The only thing close to a bolter shell being used in real life was one of hitlers wonder weapons. It had to sit in a hill bunker complex, it used magnets and rocketry to propell the shell accross the channel. It had an extensive vent system and the shell wasnt too big either. I am not sure if it even got to fire...

Other than that i am far from convinced a bolter round can be made (along with a portable weapon) today. for one the gun would have to be HUGE and heavy, the round would be loud and visible, it would not be accurite and it would not be able to be aimed easily and the gun would need some kind of super freezer to keep it cool.

Rail guns yes, but thats not what we are talking about.

And also the idea of a boltgun in every way is impractical for real life.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Ok hold up... The only thing close to a bolter shell being used in real life was one of hitlers wonder weapons. It had to sit in a hill bunker complex, it used magnets and rocketry to propell the shell accross the channel. It had an extensive vent system and the shell wasnt too big either. I am not sure if it even got to fire...

Other than that i am far from convinced a bolter round can be made (along with a portable weapon) today. for one the gun would have to be HUGE and heavy, the round would be loud and visible, it would not be accurite and it would not be able to be aimed easily and the gun would need some kind of super freezer to keep it cool.

Rail guns yes, but thats not what we are talking about.

And also the idea of a boltgun in every way is impractical for real life.

Lolwut? No, they're called grenade launchers. They serve the exact same purpose, only airburst launchers are designed for multiple casualty infliction while the bolter typically tries to cause a single casualty. We could build one quite easily with modern day tech, just that it would lack the specific range and penetration power, but it'd function just the same. Only we don't need it because we don't fight aliens with hide having the strength of heavy armor or giant battlemechs. But we have the tech to make a heavy gun out of them. It'd be a large 20mm shell, but it'd work.

We have the technology to make guided shells, just they'd be a lot longer to make room for the booster. Hell, we actually are a step above the Imperium as we could make those shells guided. Because self guided bullets are now a thing as of 2012 and increase accuracy of snipers for long-distance targets. The only problem keeping us from making one besides it being a toy is the expense of doing so and it's lack of use on a modern battlefield.



We could definitely build a bolter turret minus the alien alloys we don't have access to in reality. You couldn't shoulder it unless you wanted a busted arm, but we could certainly make it.