What do you want from the Space Wolves 6th Edition Codex?

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**Martel732**

Anpu42 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I care because I've been watching SW be better than all other meqs since 1994. That's why.

If you think marines have "powerful" troop choices, you need to hit yourself with your own foam bat. GH are still better than anything he listed, particularly in a mirror match against other meqs, since meqs can't burn your GH to the ground like Xenos.

My statements aren't assumptions. The one time I army swapped with SW in 6th, the guy threw one of my BA models across the room he was so upset with the results. Because he though BA were supposed to be a "fair matchup". I tabled him.

You also seem to have a grasp of scale. It seems every Unit is either Overpowered or is Sucks
What is a fair and ballanced unit out there in your opiniion?

In a vacuum? I can't answer that. To determine balance, we must compare two separate lists or units.

Look. Here's the thing. What list do you want the game balanced around? Marines? If so, SW, Tau, Eldar, GK, Daemons, and Necrons are all too strong.
If you balance around Tau, then marines, sisters, CSM are all too weak.

Most people seem to consider the space marine as a standard for troops. In this case, GW has made a point of making nearly every other troop a better value for the points in the context of 6th edition. For example, GH, sniper kroot, and Dire Avengers are all a better value than tactical marines. These advantages in value snowball and grant huge advantages over the course of many, many games.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
No, because Space Wolves are already Space Marines +1 on way too many fronts. You want to be unique you have to actually accept some drawbacks that actually matter (so not "no heavy weapons on Troops and no inability to take useless meatshields on Long Fangs").

Things SW don't get that SM get:
1.We can't take flyers save the Forge World/Escalation ones which will drain a great deal of pts
2.we can't take the Mortis Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought
3.Our Scouts are troops. Albeit better in comparison except the fact they can't hold objectives and can't be taken as troops(said it twice to make sure it's take into account)
4.Other marines can take bikes as troops for cheaper. Wanna know how we can? Have to have Logan and have over costed Wolf Guard on em. Too much points for something that won't be as effective when compared to WS and RW.
5.Jump Packs as troops which, like #4 relies on Logan and over costing Wolf Guard and over all taking a huge chunk out of the army when others can do it better.
6.We can't take extra bodies for our Long Fangs like regular Devastators can. Yes we get one more heavy weapon...but the unit will/can be blasted away and is very squishy.
7.We can't take heavy weapons for our GH. A heavy weapon is something that makes Tactical Squads very good because they can use them. Having that heavy weapon is very good and our guys don't have them.
8.Mastery Level 3 Psyker. I don't really care but eh it's one thing.
9.Flakk Missiles(for now)
Lastly number ten because this is starting to get long: Iron Clad Dreadnoughts, the scout version of the Land Speeder, Hunter/Stalker(for now. Or they will keep that as a Marine unique thing), Grave Weapons(I hope we don't get them personally. Too gimmicky. Powerful yes. But just eh to be honest) and all the crazy relics.

Number 6 and number 7 suggests to me that you didn't actually read what you responded to.

**Martel732**

Heavy weapons for tac squads are usually crap. How much do these people play this game?

**Anpu42**

Martel732 wrote:

In a vacuum? I can't answer that. To determine balance, we must compare two separate lists or units.

Look. Here's the thing. What list do you want the game balanced around? Marines? If so, SW, Tau, Eldar, GK, Daemons, and Necrons are all too strong.
If you balance around Tau, then marines, sisters, CSM are all too weak.

Most people seem to consider the space marine as a standard for troops. In this case, GW has made a point of making nearly every other troop a better value for the points in the context of 6th edition. For example, GH, sniper kroot, and Dire Avengers are all a better value than tactical marines. These advantages in value snowball and grant huge advantages over the course of many, many games.

First of all that was a really good response.

The key word there is Vacuum.
Here is an example of not taking things in a Vacuum.
Scoring Units:
>Space Wolf Choices are very limited. If we want Scoring units I either have to take Logan to make my Wolf Guard Troops, but then I am spending a lot of points and not gaining any Scoring Units, so we have to back to Grey Hunters or Blood Claws and we all know Blood Claws are not the best Choice for “Competitive List”, so we are back to Grey Hunters.
>Marines have got it better in Options. Heck if you wait till just before the game and have No Special Characters you can Tool Your Chapter Tactics Against whatever enemy you face. A if I am reading the Rules correctly this can be from round to round in a tournament.
You have Tactical Squads and Scouts and in some Meta’s both are good. And if you need to you can combat Squad them doubling your Scoring Ability.
You can go with Crimson Fist and with Pedro you can add Sternguard to the list of scoring which can also Combat Squad.
Take Commander on a bike and you can take good bikes that if you need to Combat Squad.

All of this is may be rambling but you should see my point.
>Codex Marines can be better in some situation.

**Martel732**

Combat squads only matter if you want more than six scoring units. How many marine lists have that?

Space wolves don't need choices other than GH. That's the whole problem. Options don't matter at all if they are all bad. Like C:SM.

**Anpu42**

Martel732 wrote:
Combat squads only matter if you want more than six scoring units. How many marine lists have that?

Space wolves don't need choices other than GH. That's the whole problem. Options don't matter at all if they are all bad. Like C:SM.

There you go again calling something bad just becouse there is something better.

What is a Good Unit?

**AlmightyWalrus**

Anpu42 wrote:

All of this is may be rambling but you should see my point.
>Codex Marines can be better in some situation.

But Codex: Space Wolves is better most of the time, which is what matters.

Anpu42 wrote:
Heck if you wait till just before the game and have No Special Characters you can Tool Your Chapter Tactics Against whatever enemy you face. A if I am reading the Rules correctly this can be from round to round in a tournament.

No. That's not how it works at all. You pick one and you play that, you don't get to pick and choose between games if you're playing a TAC list.

**Martel732**

Anpu42 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Combat squads only matter if you want more than six scoring units. How many marine lists have that?

Space wolves don't need choices other than GH. That's the whole problem. Options don't matter at all if they are all bad. Like C:SM.

There you go again calling something bad just becouse there is something better.

What is a Good Unit?

I'd say a good unit would be a unit at least in the top half of all possible choices in that slot across all codices. Tactical marines are in the bottom third of troops. They are bad.

**ZebioLizard2**

>Space Wolf Choices are very limited. If we want Scoring units I either have to take Logan to make my Wolf Guard Troops, but then I am spending a lot of points and not gaining any Scoring Units, so we have to back to Grey Hunters or Blood Claws and we all know Blood Claws are not the best Choice for “Competitive List”, so we are back to Grey Hunters.

Except GH are better then all the options you listed, so they would be comparable to those Blood Claws. With exception to the bikes anyways.

**Anpu42**

Ok Will state this again, I do come from a Fun First environments. This is where I am coming from.
To me Limitations is being forced to Taking the Same thing Every Time.
Grey Hunters have 3 basic Builds
>2x Flamers
>2x Meta-Gun
>2xPlasma-Guns
Mixing is not a good idea other than maybe Flamer/Melta Gun. The point is your opponent knows when you are pulling out of your box and they know what to expect.

Tactical Marines have a lot of variety in there builds. You can do things like a take a Flamer and a Missile Launcher and still make it work. You can Combat Squad; take the one with the Flamer with your Sergeant with his Combi-Flamer for dealing with the Gaunts whiles the Missile Launcher can work on the Gaunts or Warriors.
Grav-Gun Heavy Bolter can sit there and pull off a Gunline approach to the battle.
Now Personally I normally use Gunline with Combi-Plasma, Plasma-Gun, and Plasma-Cannon Gunline while other units take on the rest of the army. This set up allows me to deal with most things and I have used it for 5 Editions.
Now with the new Codex: Space Marines I am looking at changing it to Sergeant with a Combi-Grav, Plasma Gun and a Heavy Bolter using Crimson Fist with Pedro to make my Sternguard Scoring. With that set up I will start to be a little more aggressive, I might even start to take Rhinos.
Unless you are like me every time it could be different not giving your opponent time to pre-plan.

**DOOMONYOU**

What we want in the new codex is for blood claws to become cheaper. Then there will be less hate for grey hunters as space wolf players start fielding blood claws (either from fluff or the fact they haven't been fielding them for years)

Then everybody can complain about the OP bloodclaws with 4 attacks on the charge.

**Waaaghpower**

Martel732 wrote:
Waaaghpower wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
No one needs low AP shooting anymore if they can just spam S6/7 and force marines to die to failed saves. This has the side effect of melting every rhino hull in one or two turns.

Coincidentally, Grey Hunters have a pretty good way to get around this, considering how great they are at Drop Pod spam. You can't shoot someone who isn't on the field... And 24 Boltguns + 6 Special Weapons in your backfield on Turn One can really hurt.

Well, sorta. But with Tau, you've got EWO and with Eldar, they assault you with the immortal seer council and the Wave Serpents just run away and keep shooting the next turn. Drop pods have to do crippling damage on the alpha strike or they are usually dead in the water.

That's true. But you really get an alpha strike and a beta strike: 30 guys on turn one, 20-30 more on turn two. You can realistically get 6 squads of drop pod Grey Hunters, a Rune Priest, an Aegis Line with anti-air, and 5 Missile Launchers in a 1500 point game. That's a lot of early-game hurt that your opponent can't do much about.

**Kavik_Whitescar**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Anpu42 wrote:

If you look thought this thread of what we want.
A NICE AND BALLANCED CODEX!

Which, funnily enough, is what myself and Martel and everyone else who doesn't play Space Wolves want too.

I will agree you want a balanced dex, and the few others who kept their cool but as for martel

Oh, and if GW insists on having good and bad codices, the SW have NEVER had their turn on the bottom. EVER. They're due for a terrible codex. Lots of karma is owed.

I dont see this as wanting Balance, seems to me he is pretty dead set on bitching and moaning till SW get put into an awful codex.

I have hated Space Wolves since 2nd edition. So this isn't a recent thing. BA have been bad before, I'm just very sick of SW getting special treatment. SW get too many advantages for free compared to other meqs as it stands right now. All justified by "fluff". Well, Dante is the oldest mother f*&&^^er in the Space Marines and he's a turd. Where's my fluff?

This is a game, with tiny plastic men and little plastic tanks. You are holding a grudge against tiny plastic men, and little plastic tanks because they are unique to meet a demographic and written in a way that GW seems to find acceptable. New codex discussions aside, I think you have some serious issues and need to take a step back.

**ZebioLizard2**

Anpu42 wrote:
Ok Will state this again, I do come from a Fun First environments. This is where I am coming from.
To me Limitations is being forced to Taking the Same thing Every Time.
Grey Hunters have 3 basic Builds
>2x Flamers
>2x Meta-Gun
>2xPlasma-Guns
Mixing is not a good idea other than maybe Flamer/Melta Gun. The point is your opponent knows when you are pulling out of your box and they know what to expect.

Tactical Marines have a lot of variety in there builds. You can do things like a take a Flamer and a Missile Launcher and still make it work. You can Combat Squad; take the one with the Flamer with your Sergeant with his Combi-Flamer for dealing with the Gaunts whiles the Missile Launcher can work on the Gaunts or Warriors.
Grav-Gun Heavy Bolter can sit there and pull off a Gunline approach to the battle.
Now Personally I normally use Gunline with Combi-Plasma, Plasma-Gun, and Plasma-Cannon Gunline while other units take on the rest of the army. This set up allows me to deal with most things and I have used it for 5 Editions.
Now with the new Codex: Space Marines I am looking at changing it to Sergeant with a Combi-Grav, Plasma Gun and a Heavy Bolter using Crimson Fist with Pedro to make my Sternguard Scoring. With that set up I will start to be a little more aggressive, I might even start to take Rhinos.
Unless you are like me every time it could be different not giving your opponent time to pre-plan.

First one is horribly ineffective as your combat squadding a one shot missile launcher, and an anti-infantry troop. You've effectively split the troop's combat potential in half and not for much gain, and the GH squad does it far better by having Counter-attack and CCW/BP

Second: Heavy Bolters are horribly ineffective for their cost, and it's targets are different from the grav-gun.

Third: Which is alright, and most likely taken, but it's still far worse then the GH

**Anpu42**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Anpu42 wrote:
Ok Will state this again, I do come from a Fun First environments. This is where I am coming from.
To me Limitations is being forced to Taking the Same thing Every Time.
Grey Hunters have 3 basic Builds
>2x Flamers
>2x Meta-Gun
>2xPlasma-Guns
Mixing is not a good idea other than maybe Flamer/Melta Gun. The point is your opponent knows when you are pulling out of your box and they know what to expect.

Tactical Marines have a lot of variety in there builds. You can do things like a take a Flamer and a Missile Launcher and still make it work. You can Combat Squad; take the one with the Flamer with your Sergeant with his Combi-Flamer for dealing with the Gaunts whiles the Missile Launcher can work on the Gaunts or Warriors.
Grav-Gun Heavy Bolter can sit there and pull off a Gunline approach to the battle.
Now Personally I normally use Gunline with Combi-Plasma, Plasma-Gun, and Plasma-Cannon Gunline while other units take on the rest of the army. This set up allows me to deal with most things and I have used it for 5 Editions.
Now with the new Codex: Space Marines I am looking at changing it to Sergeant with a Combi-Grav, Plasma Gun and a Heavy Bolter using Crimson Fist with Pedro to make my Sternguard Scoring. With that set up I will start to be a little more aggressive, I might even start to take Rhinos.
Unless you are like me every time it could be different not giving your opponent time to pre-plan.

First one is horribly ineffective as your combat squadding a one shot missile launcher, and an anti-infantry troop. You've effectively split the troop's combat potential in half and not for much gain, and the GH squad does it far better by having Counter-attack and CCW/BP

Second: Heavy Bolters are horribly ineffective for their cost, and it's targets are different from the grav-gun.

Third: Which is alright, and most likely taken, but it's still far worse then the GH

I think we are getting off track a little
Yes Grey Hunters are usaly better most of the time, and they cost more.

**Jayden63**

I say the proof is in the pudding. Empirical evidence is the only answer. Someone needs to build a marine list (don't care which chapter tactics you use) that needs to include at least one unit of tactical marines for every say 600 points. And now play 10 games with this army. Record your wins vs losses. Now use the exact same list but instead of tactical marines import grey hunters and spend the exact same number of points. You have all options as presented in the Grey Hunter unit list. If you include a dedicated transport you must use the prices/wargear found in the SW codex for that vehicle.

Now play those exact same 10 (same opponent, same mission, same table setup) games again and record your results. If the Grey hunter is in fact so much better than your tactical marine I expect no less than a 50% win increase because of the unit change out.

This is the only way to do it. Heck 10 games may still be too few of a sample. If you only win 50% of your games normally that means taking GH will only win you two and a half more games. Which could be a dice anaomally. Might have to change it to 20 games.

**Anpu42**

It also comes down how you use each.
My Grey Hunters don’t win the games I am in by killing off my opponent. They win my games because they stubbornly hold the Objectives. What wins the games for me are my Long Fangs, Land Speeders, Wolf Scouts and sometimes Blood Claws.

The same for my Space Marines. My Tactical Squads, they are winning my games by stubbornly sitting on Objectives. What is Winning my games are my Sternguard, Devastators and even my Assault Squads.

**Martel732**

Anpu42 wrote:
It also comes down how you use each.
My Grey Hunters don’t win the games I am in by killing off my opponent. They win my games because they stubbornly hold the Objectives. What wins the games for me are my Long Fangs, Land Speeders, Wolf Scouts and sometimes Blood Claws.

The same for my Space Marines. My Tactical Squads, they are winning my games by stubbornly sitting on Objectives. What is Winning my games are my Sternguard, Devastators and even my Assault Squads.

You can't beat more vicious foes with this approach. You need to squeeze every bit of offense out because marines stubbornly sitting on objectives are just ducks in a barrel for Xeno firepower. You don't realize how good you have it being able to do this.

Long Fangs, Speeders, and scouts don't have the aggregate firepower to bring good lists to heel.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Anpu42 wrote:
Ok Will state this again, I do come from a Fun First environments. This is where I am coming from.
To me Limitations is being forced to Taking the Same thing Every Time.
Grey Hunters have 3 basic Builds
>2x Flamers
>2x Meta-Gun
>2xPlasma-Guns
Mixing is not a good idea other than maybe Flamer/Melta Gun. The point is your opponent knows when you are pulling out of your box and they know what to expect.

Tactical Marines have a lot of variety in there builds. You can do things like a take a Flamer and a Missile Launcher and still make it work. You can Combat Squad; take the one with the Flamer with your Sergeant with his Combi-Flamer for dealing with the Gaunts whiles the Missile Launcher can work on the Gaunts or Warriors.
Grav-Gun Heavy Bolter can sit there and pull off a Gunline approach to the battle.
Now Personally I normally use Gunline with Combi-Plasma, Plasma-Gun, and Plasma-Cannon Gunline while other units take on the rest of the army. This set up allows me to deal with most things and I have used it for 5 Editions.
Now with the new Codex: Space Marines I am looking at changing it to Sergeant with a Combi-Grav, Plasma Gun and a Heavy Bolter using Crimson Fist with Pedro to make my Sternguard Scoring. With that set up I will start to be a little more aggressive, I might even start to take Rhinos.
Unless you are like me every time it could be different not giving your opponent time to pre-plan.

I don't list tailor. So against unknown foes how good does those tacs look now?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Anpu42 wrote:

If you look thought this thread of what we want.
A NICE AND BALLANCED CODEX!

Which, funnily enough, is what myself and Martel and everyone else who doesn't play Space Wolves want too.

I will agree you want a balanced dex, and the few others who kept their cool but as for martel

Oh, and if GW insists on having good and bad codices, the SW have NEVER had their turn on the bottom. EVER. They're due for a terrible codex. Lots of karma is owed.

I dont see this as wanting Balance, seems to me he is pretty dead set on bitching and moaning till SW get put into an awful codex.

I have hated Space Wolves since 2nd edition. So this isn't a recent thing. BA have been bad before, I'm just very sick of SW getting special treatment. SW get too many advantages for free compared to other meqs as it stands right now. All justified by "fluff". Well, Dante is the oldest mother f*&&^^er in the Space Marines and he's a turd. Where's my fluff?

This is a game, with tiny plastic men and little plastic tanks. You are holding a grudge against tiny plastic men, and little plastic tanks because they are unique to meet a demographic and written in a way that GW seems to find acceptable. New codex discussions aside, I think you have some serious issues and need to take a step back.

I would prefer that all lists were balanced, but given that we have both DA and Eldar in the same edition, GW disagrees. Given this, I'd like to see SW suffer a hit in their efficacy and let another chapter be the boss for a while.

**Anpu42**

I was not list tailoring, you can replace Gaunts and warriors with most anything.

You might be surprised about what Plasma Armed Wolf Scouts can do.

And yes I am happy I don’t have to play in a “Ultra-Competitive Environment.”

**Martel732**

No, I'm not surprised because I've seen them before. I've pretty much seen every permutation of every trick marines have. None are as brutally efficient as Xeno shooting. None.

My BA actually love to face plasma armed meqs, because meqs usually can't ignore my cover saves. And plasma doesn't ignore FNP. So you are paying a lot of points to not clear many extra wounds. It takes an obscene amount of plasma to do as much damage as a single ion accelerator against BA.

The difference is the tricks my BA are paying for still have some efficacy against SW and other MEQs in general. Even against helldrakes I still get FNP. Against SW, I might have a hope of out shooting them.

Against Taudar, I get no save or have to make 50+ saves a turn which I can't manage. My whole army is gone in 3-4 turns.

**Anpu42**

In an attempt to get back on track:

I really don’t think there is much that can be done to Long Fangs. I would be happy with a Copy Paste with Flack Missiles and the Long Fang Pack Leader gaining access to an Auspex for x points, that can not be used at the same time as the Split Fire.

**AllSeeingSkink**

DOOMONYOU wrote:
What we want in the new codex is for blood claws to become cheaper. Then there will be less hate for grey hunters as space wolf players start fielding blood claws (either from fluff or the fact they haven't been fielding them for years)

Then everybody can complain about the OP bloodclaws with 4 attacks on the charge.

If they dropped 1 leadership and gained 1 Ws but stayed the same points, that'd be cool with me.

I don't really want to get embroiled in the whole SW overpowered thing. IMO, Space Wolves SHOULD be Marines +1 (in close combat) and Marines -1 (at shooting). How that is done, I don't really mind.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
I would prefer that all lists were balanced, but given that we have both DA and Eldar in the same edition, GW disagrees. Given this, I'd like to see SW suffer a hit in their efficacy and let another chapter be the boss for a while.

So, spite is your reason, can we just leave it there and move on

**Jayden63**

As they are right now, they are -1 in shooting. No Thunderfires, limited typhoon landspeeders, no sternguard, no grav guns, no Centurion devastators. no flyers of any kind with any sort of guns what so ever.

And I'll be honest. I really dont want any of those things when the codex gets redone either.

Ok ok, I'll admit, having more typhoon landspeeders wouldn't be a bad thing.

**Kavik_Whitescar**

I would prefer that all lists were balanced, but given that we have both DA and Eldar in the same edition, GW disagrees. Given this, I'd like to see SW suffer a hit in their efficacy and let another chapter be the boss for a while.

you mean like the Whitescars?

**ZebioLizard2**

Jayden63 wrote:
As they are right now, they are -1 in shooting. No Thunderfires, limited typhoon landspeeders, no sternguard, no grav guns, no Centurion devastators. no flyers of any kind with any sort of guns what so ever.

And I'll be honest. I really dont want any of those things when the codex gets redone either.

Ok ok, I'll admit, having more typhoon landspeeders wouldn't be a bad thing.

You can take the Stormraven/Stormtalon dataslate, why does every SW keep ignoring this? You can take the exact same flyers as SM.

**Jayden63**

No, I can take two storm talons and one storm raven. Everytime always. Regardless if I only want one storm raven.

And you can't even utilize all the bits from the stormraven that actually make it worth its points (its transport ability). I might have 220 points or whatever for it, but I sure as heck don't have 520 for the entire data slate. Thats the problem. If SW could take a storm raven I might consider having it replace my LRC. If storm talons could escort drop pods I might consider taking one for my dread. However, the dataslate allows for non of that pick and choose, and when points get tight, sometimes you just don't have a block that big available.

**Kavik_Whitescar**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Jayden63 wrote:
As they are right now, they are -1 in shooting. No Thunderfires, limited typhoon landspeeders, no sternguard, no grav guns, no Centurion devastators. no flyers of any kind with any sort of guns what so ever.

And I'll be honest. I really dont want any of those things when the codex gets redone either.

Ok ok, I'll admit, having more typhoon landspeeders wouldn't be a bad thing.

You can take the Stormraven/Stormtalon dataslate, why does every SW keep ignoring this? You can take the exact same flyers as SM.

I'm not ignoring it, I just have no intrest in those models in particular as of right now, I dont know why most of the people here havent yet realized that they have access to em :/

**Waaaghpower**

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:
ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Jayden63 wrote:
As they are right now, they are -1 in shooting. No Thunderfires, limited typhoon landspeeders, no sternguard, no grav guns, no Centurion devastators. no flyers of any kind with any sort of guns what so ever.

And I'll be honest. I really dont want any of those things when the codex gets redone either.

Ok ok, I'll admit, having more typhoon landspeeders wouldn't be a bad thing.

You can take the Stormraven/Stormtalon dataslate, why does every SW keep ignoring this? You can take the exact same flyers as SM.

I'm not ignoring it, I just have no intrest in those models in particular as of right now, I dont know why most of the people here havent yet realized that they have access to em :/

Really? What book is that in, if you don't mind my asking. (My LGS bans Forge World rules, unfortunately, so that might be why I haven't heard it...)

**Kavik_Whitescar**

Waaaghpower wrote:
Kavik_Whitescar wrote:
ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Jayden63 wrote:
As they are right now, they are -1 in shooting. No Thunderfires, limited typhoon landspeeders, no sternguard, no grav guns, no Centurion devastators. no flyers of any kind with any sort of guns what so ever.

And I'll be honest. I really dont want any of those things when the codex gets redone either.

Ok ok, I'll admit, having more typhoon landspeeders wouldn't be a bad thing.

You can take the Stormraven/Stormtalon dataslate, why does every SW keep ignoring this? You can take the exact same flyers as SM.

I'm not ignoring it, I just have no intrest in those models in particular as of right now, I dont know why most of the people here havent yet realized that they have access to em :/

Really? What book is that in, if you don't mind my asking. (My LGS bans Forge World rules, unfortunately, so that might be why I haven't heard it...)

Check the Data slates GW put out (FAQ sorta things) gives us access to them

Edit: I wish I could give you more, but I am at work and am lucky Dakka isnt blocked >.> (yet) otherwise i would give a better answer, anyone else help out here?

**ZebioLizard2**

Waaaghpower wrote:
Kavik_Whitescar wrote:
ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Jayden63 wrote:
As they are right now, they are -1 in shooting. No Thunderfires, limited typhoon landspeeders, no sternguard, no grav guns, no Centurion devastators. no flyers of any kind with any sort of guns what so ever.

And I'll be honest. I really dont want any of those things when the codex gets redone either.

Ok ok, I'll admit, having more typhoon landspeeders wouldn't be a bad thing.

You can take the Stormraven/Stormtalon dataslate, why does every SW keep ignoring this? You can take the exact same flyers as SM.

I'm not ignoring it, I just have no intrest in those models in particular as of right now, I dont know why most of the people here havent yet realized that they have access to em :/

Really? What book is that in, if you don't mind my asking. (My LGS bans Forge World rules, unfortunately, so that might be why I haven't heard it...)

http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Dataslate-Adeptus-Astartes-Storm-Wing.html

Here ya go.

If storm talons could escort drop pods I might consider taking one for my dread.

Even normal storm talons can't escort Drop pods.

However it still means you can take flyers, even DA mostly take the dataslate over their own flyers.