Happyjew wrote:

 CveleZT wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 CveleZT wrote:
Its only incorrect to those that believe that 1 shot causes 7,233,532 hits like you. Hahahaha go make up your rules somewhere else.

Obviously, just like in a bunker or a vehicle 1 shot causes 1 hit unless the weapon profile states otherwise. Not as many hits as there are inside a vehicle or bunker.

Its obvious this is too complicated for you.

Just a few friendly reminders:

 Lorek wrote:
1. Rule #1 is Be Polite! It's easy!
6. No Thread Necromancy. If a thread is more than a month old, leave it alone. If you're really interested in the topic, start a new thread! There are exceptions, like updates to modelling blogs or threads in forums that don't get much traffic, but in general bringing back old threads is simply annoying to the bulk of the posters who have already moved on.

 Lorek wrote:
1. Don't make a statement without backing it up.
- You have to give premises for a conclusive statement; without this, there can be no debate. For more detail on how to actually create a logically supported conclusion, please read this article on how to have an intelligent rules debate.

1a. Don't say that someone is wrong, instead you explain why you think their opinion is wrong. Criticize the opinion, not the person.

5. Stick to discussing the rules, not the poster. Phrases like "Rules Lawyer", "Cheater" and "TFG" have no place in rules discussions. Don't depart from rules discussions by attaching value judgments to different interpretations.

Hahaha so you can say someone is wrong but when someone tells you you are wrong you get offended. Please. Get a life.

I provided my rule its right in the VSG entry. States 12 inch radius. Which means up down left right. Like a dome.

If you dont have the book you should not comment on this thread. As you are not reading the actual rule. I am and am providing you the facts for all my arguments. You just choose to ignore them.

Now instead of asking me to repeat myself how about YOU provide the rule that proves me wrong? Go on please, humor me.

Otherwise you posting this above is simply just sour grapes because you dont have an argument or a rule to back up your claims.

Sounds good?

Somebody saying I'm wrong does not bother me. I've been corrected numerous times in this forum, including on things regarding units I use, in the armies I play (rather recently I might add). What annoys me, is:
a) People being impolite. Sure I could click on the yellow triangle of friendliness and alert a mod, but why waste their time? It is possible, the other poster doesn't realize their comment offends. Of course, calling people immature, or saying something is complicated, is not very polite, and the poster should realize this.
b) digging up a thread that is over a month old, shortly after a more recent thread on the exact same topic has been locked.
c) People making claims and refuse to back them up with rules. For example, if someone claims that 1 shot = 1 hit, then when asked for a citation, they should be able to, and willing to give it. If I claimed that models without eyes cannot shoot, and I'm asked for a citation, I can (and will) give it.
d) If I tell someone they are wrong, I will try to show them why they are wrong. Usually the wording of the rule confuses them and clarification is needed. However, I don't ever recall saying to you "You're wrong." You on the other hand have posted multiple times things along the lines of "You're wrong, you haven't read the rule and it is very simple."

You've made claims and when asked to back them up you ignore it. You continually state that poster s have not read the rule. I have. In fact I've read it enough times on these threads I can probably quote it almost verbatim. Probably something along the lines of "Any shooting attacks that originates from outside the shield zone and hits a target within the shield zone instead hits the shield." You are arguing that any weapon that generates multiple hits per shot, instead only generates 1 hit. Where are you getting 1 hit from? Clearly, you are not getting it from the Void Shield rules, because it never mentions shots. It's not the blast rules, as the only way to determine hits with blast weapons is to count the models underneath the marker, and the shield is clearly not a model. So I'm asking for a page number in the BRB that states "1 shot = 1 hit". Please tell me what page number that it is on and I'll not only concede but will apologize to all who said 1 hit with blast weapons.

 grendel083 wrote:

 CveleZT wrote:
Obviously I was referring only to treating it like a bunker to units within its range. But I see again that's WAY to complicated for you.

Insults again? Can't come up with a rules based argument, so you still resort to them?

Here is something simple enough, shield takes only 1 hit from a template weapon unless the profile of the weapon specifically says so. Regardless of how many troops are under it.

That's an assumption. Can you quote any rule to back that up?

Again you haven't shown me the rule that say it takes any more than that. You are just as you say... imagining and inventing rules that don't exist without proving anything to back up your argument.

It's your statement. As per the rules of this forum you should back it up.

And you want me to prove a rule doesn't exist? My proof is simple, your lack of being able to supply it. I've asked you, and anyone else to provide the rule. No one can.

I've given examples before showing that 1 shot at a single model target can generate more than 1 hit.
You chose to ignore that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CveleZT wrote:
It clearly states shots from outside the 12'' radius hit the shield first.

No it doesn't. The rule is the unit must be hit, before the shooting attack is transferred. The unit must be hit first.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Happyjew wrote:
So I'm asking for a page number in the BRB that states "1 shot = 1 hit". Please tell me what page number that it is on and I'll not only concede but will apologize to all who said 1 hit with blast weapons.

Count me in, I'll even hand write the letter of concession and post it.

How many times has this question been asked? How many threads?
No one has provided the quote, nor made a decent attempt to prove it.

 CveleZT wrote:
Again I am not insulting anyone,

 CveleZT wrote:
Its obvious this is too complicated for you.

CveleZT wrote:People here must be willfully ignorant.

CveleZT wrote:You are extremely ignorant but I forgive you.

I have also only returned in kind the comments that were given to me. If someone says I am wrong I will say they are wrong.

As for the rule 1 shot = 1 hit

Go to page 12 of BRB and read the Roll to Hit rule.

"Roll "A" D6 for each shot that is in range." Not Roll X D6 for each shot that is in range"

 CveleZT wrote:
Go to page 12 of BRB and read the Roll to Hit rule.

"Roll "A" D6 for each shot that is in range." Not Roll X D6 for each shot that is in range"

Thats the definition of 1 shot = 1 hit. Regardless if its template or not. You roll 1 scatter die instead of a D6. Now I expect an apology from you as well.

 Happyjew wrote:

 CveleZT wrote:
Again I am not insulting anyone,

You've not been insulting?

Just a small list:

 CveleZT wrote:
Its obvious this is too complicated for you.

CveleZT wrote:People here must be willfully ignorant.

CveleZT wrote:You are extremely ignorant but I forgive you.

I'm curious as how you do not see those as not insulting.

I have also only returned in kind the comments that were given to me. If someone says I am wrong I will say they are wrong.

No, people say you are wrong, and you reply with things such as "You are ignorant". While there are a couple people who tend to get a little impolite, for the most part people here don't respond by saying that people are stupid. Sorry, ignorant, don't want to be accused of putting words in your mouth.

As for the rule 1 shot = 1 hit

Go to page 12 of BRB and read the Roll to Hit rule.

"Roll "A" D6 for each shot that is in range." Not Roll X D6 for each shot that is in range"

That tells you how to generate hits. Again there is no rule that says that 1 shot=1 hit.

 CveleZT wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
That tells you how to generate hits. Again there is no rule that says that 1 shot=1 hit.

HAHAHAHAAAAaaaaaaa 1 shot = 1 hit is the definition of "Roll "A" D6 for each shot that is in range."

No apology? I see how good your word is and I am not surprised. You have lost all credibility here and to anyone reading this.

 grendel083 wrote:

 CveleZT wrote:
Go to page 12 of BRB and read the Roll to Hit rule.

"Roll "A" D6 for each shot that is in range." Not Roll X D6 for each shot that is in range"

Thats the definition of 1 shot = 1 hit. Regardless if its template or not. You roll 1 scatter die instead of a D6. Now I expect an apology from you as well.

That rule at no point ever says one shot can only generate one hit.
That rule simply says how you roll to hit. There is no limitation placed on number of hits.

So you still haven't proved your statement. Unless you can prove (with rules) that one shot can only generate one hit, then your theory on shields remains incorrect.

And your apology for all the insults you threw at various users is still long overdue.

Stormbreed wrote:
However we know it hits the shield first.

 CveleZT wrote:
You asked for something. You were provided the exact page and rule. And now you are in denial.

 CveleZT wrote:
As I said above in the rules it says the shield is hit first at a 12'' radius. Hence the need for AV12. Otherwise, this would be just a cover save.

Hence, just like with regards to shooting at a bunker or a vehicle it doesn't make any difference how many models are in the bunker or vehicle to how many hits the bunker or vehicle take.

PS Im gonna ignore some people on here from now on as they dont mean what they say and they break their word when they are proven obviously wrong when provided clear evidence they ask for.

 CveleZT wrote:
As I said above in the rules it says the shield is hit first at a 12'' radius.

Hence, just like with regards to shooting at a bunker or a vehicle it doesn't make any difference how many models are in the bunker or vehicle to how many hits the bunker or vehicle take.

PS Im gonna ignore some people on here from now on as they dont mean what they say and they break their word when they are proven obviously wrong when provided clear evidence they ask for.

Rorschach9 wrote:

 CveleZT wrote:
As I said above in the rules it says the shield is hit first at a 12'' radius. Hence the need for AV12. Otherwise, this would be just a cover save.

Hence, just like with regards to shooting at a bunker or a vehicle it doesn't make any difference how many models are in the bunker or vehicle to how many hits the bunker or vehicle take.

PS Im gonna ignore some people on here from now on as they dont mean what they say and they break their word when they are proven obviously wrong when provided clear evidence they ask for.

Underlined : But that's not at all what the rules for the VSG say.

 CveleZT wrote:
Indeed, the part that says you are shooting at the unit is simply because of range of your weapons.

You must be in range to target a unit but even though you shoot at it, all shoots (template or not) will hit the shield first until the shield is destroyed. They hit the shield at a different location than the unit. Somewhere on that 24''+ diameter.

 CveleZT wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:

 CveleZT wrote:
As I said above in the rules it says the shield is hit first at a 12'' radius. Hence the need for AV12. Otherwise, this would be just a cover save.

Hence, just like with regards to shooting at a bunker or a vehicle it doesn't make any difference how many models are in the bunker or vehicle to how many hits the bunker or vehicle take.

PS Im gonna ignore some people on here from now on as they dont mean what they say and they break their word when they are proven obviously wrong when provided clear evidence they ask for.

Underlined : But that's not at all what the rules for the VSG say.

Indeed, the part that says you are shooting at the unit is simply because of range of your weapons.

You must be in range to target a unit but even though you shoot at it, all shoots (template or not) will hit the shield first until the shield is destroyed. They hit the shield at a different location than the unit. Somewhere on that 24''+ diameter.

Rorschach9 wrote:

 CveleZT wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:

 CveleZT wrote:
As I said above in the rules it says the shield is hit first at a 12'' radius. Hence the need for AV12. Otherwise, this would be just a cover save.

Hence, just like with regards to shooting at a bunker or a vehicle it doesn't make any difference how many models are in the bunker or vehicle to how many hits the bunker or vehicle take.

PS Im gonna ignore some people on here from now on as they dont mean what they say and they break their word when they are proven obviously wrong when provided clear evidence they ask for.

Underlined : But that's not at all what the rules for the VSG say.

Indeed, the part that says you are shooting at the unit is simply because of range of your weapons.

You must be in range to target a unit but even though you shoot at it, all shoots (template or not) will hit the shield first until the shield is destroyed. They hit the shield at a different location than the unit. Somewhere on that 24''+ diameter.

The VSG rules state absolutely none of what you're claiming here.
In fact, it says that a shooting attack that originates from outside the projected shield that HITS a unit inside the shield instead hits the shield. Clearly stating you must hit the unit first, then the attack hits the shield instead. There is nothing about the range or "hits the shield first" .. instead, not first. You absolutely must hit the unit first to instead hit the shield.

How do you determine if you have hit the unit? Roll to hit. That has now determined a number of hits. Now instead, hit the shield. You've already determined # of hits. Resolve those hits on the shield.

 CveleZT wrote:

This is the whole reason there is a debate on this. Since they use the word instead the shield is its own unit with an AV12. While generator is AV13. Based on this my interpretation is that even if there is no unit under the template after it scatters the shield still takes a hit as long as part of the template is anywhere within 12 inches of the generator. Hence it cannot cause multiple hits on anything under the shield as the shield is hit instead of whatever its protecting until its destroyed.

Rorschach9 wrote:

 CveleZT wrote:

This is the whole reason there is a debate on this. Since they use the word instead the shield is its own unit with an AV12. While generator is AV13. Based on this my interpretation is that even if there is no unit under the template after it scatters the shield still takes a hit as long as part of the template is anywhere within 12 inches of the generator. Hence it cannot cause multiple hits on anything under the shield as the shield is hit instead of whatever its protecting until its destroyed.

That is a perfectly fine house rule, but it is merely that. If there is no unit under the template (or no unit hit within the shield) then the shield is not hit. The rule clearly states that you must first determine that you have hit a unit inside the shield. If you have not met that condition you have no permission to still hit the shield (nor any way to work out a number of hits on the shield as it is not a unit). If you have not, in order to hit the shield at that point requires making up a rule that does not exist.

sonicaucie wrote:
So if I death ray infantry underneath a void shield, I get hits equal to the number of models under the line on the shield with a S10 AP1 weapon?

Seems pretty silly when if I was shooting the unit itself, I'd only get one hit... But because I shoot those guys sitting at the side of it, I get 10.

I'd probably just take one hit and assume that I hit the shield once.