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No worries guys. I was debating over taking single-FOC and a wide variety of guys, but I settled on taking a playstyle that I wanted to try out. Yeah, this battle won't be indicative of a normal Tyranid army, but that was not my plan with this battle.

My next game with bugs will be with a much more "normal" list and it will be against a competitive White Scars army.

 jy2 wrote:
No worries guys. I was debating over taking single-FOC and a wide variety of guys, but I settled on taking a playstyle that I wanted to try out. Yeah, this battle won't be indicative of a normal Tyranid army, but that was not my plan with this battle.

My next game with bugs will be with a much more "normal" list and it will be against a competitive White Scars army.

And to me this is more in line with the spirit of the dex. Too many people are out for taudar blood when the new nid book is actually terrifying to marine players (a much more balanced book as well). I wouldn't have garnered much usable data from the new nids verse taudar in any format since the disparity between books is just silly, I think people should stop expecting newer armies to be on par or surpass the obviously broken armies and just enjoy the armies that are balanced.

Though I must say one of my favorite fights in 40K has always been demons verse nids. MC's fighting all around makes me happy.

Thanks for the Batrep btw. Whether informative or not they are appreciated for their entertainment alone

What concerns me is the amout of Anti-Air the Tau are bringing.

 Anpu42 wrote:
What concerns me is the amout of Anti-Air the Tau are bringing.

Its nothing fishy, that's pretty much the guys standard Taudar army scaled up 150 points which is why its only single FOC.

Not suggesting you implied anything btw.

 warpspider89 wrote:
I'm guessing the Raveners are for backfield disruption.

I don't quite understand why you wouldn't take two Mawlocs instead. They are even better and suit the theme much more appropriately.

Harpies would also have suited nicely. 6 FMC FTW!

Mawlocs will come in future armies.

 Blackmoor wrote:
I have to agree with everyone that the double force org helps you a lot.

Since he took all of the toys and skimped on the troops the only question I have is can you kill his scoring units before he kills your hive tyrants?

Not going to be easy with 3 riptides and 6 broadsides shooting at my units every turn.

 Antario wrote:
Interesting aggressive approach, do you utilize the Hive commander outflank option of the Hive tyrants? I'm curious to see if there are enough Gargoyles in this list for screening purposes.

No, no Hive Commander this game.

herpguy wrote:
I know I'm echoing what everybody else is saying here, but using double FOC seems a little bit of a stretch to call this competitive Tyranids. Some tournaments don't even allow double FOC even when they are at that point level, and most are less to begin with.

I'm also confused at the raveners?

Raveners haven't really changed much from last edition, meaning that they are still good. In a way, they've become better in this edition. Why? Because the current meta is on S6/S7 shooting rather than S8. So in a sense, they are more survivable now than they used to be because of the de-emphasis on insta-killing weaponry against them.

 Redemption wrote:
What's your reasoning for picking Raveners over Shrikes? You prefer the extra point of Initiative and beast movement over jump infantry movement and extra ld10/Synapse?

Having the models.

But also, I like how raveners are beasts and thus ignore all terrain.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I agree vs Tau that Mawlocs are probably better suited than Raveners, but you have to consider that one is a heavy support while the other is fast attack. Raveners vs Shrikes - Shrikes actually make more sense in a lot of cases, and now that you can mix/match wargear I might just be converting some of my 30+ warriors so i can have a unit of 3-6 escorting my raveners up the table. If only they could take bio-cannons....

Edit - holy crap they can now. Venom Cannon Shrike, you will be soon a model i own! Now to get some gargoyle wings....

One thing to note is that with 4 flyrants, forward synapse is not an issue. Thus, I can afford to take beasts, which are actually better assault units with their ability to ignore terrain and fleet.

tag8833 wrote:
The most powerful unit nids could field against that tau list is deathleaper.

Hmmm....gotta try that in the future, though it's hard to give up a flyrant for him. Maybe at double-FOC's....

 Anpu42 wrote:
What concerns me is the amout of Anti-Air the Tau are bringing.

That's his normal list.

Apparently, our meta is more filled with flyers (me) than it is with 2+ terminators. In any case, he relies on VoF to take out 2+ units.

Instantly disappointed to see a 2xFOC list at 2000 instead a typical tournament amount of points. Oh well, we shall see what happens.

Did you decide to do the list this way because you didn't think you could win against triptide without it? Playing a "normal" list against wscars is one thing, but you got us all excited to see you beat down triptide tau.....we were ALL assuming you were talkin, like 1850, or at least single FOC.

So you're janking your opponent with double force org as evidence that nid dex is good?

Next.

Perhaps people aren't ready for this report.

Perhaps I shall start off my Tyranid battle with another report.

 jy2 wrote:
Perhaps people aren't ready for this report.

Perhaps I shall start off my Tyranid battle with another report.

I'm ready....

I think the setup is good. Against such an anti-air screen, those two extra Flyrants are pretty much throwaway points. The terrain is also okay because those long, open lanes will hurt the Tyranids just as much as those buildings will hurt the Tau.

My prognosis is that the fast moving Tyranid units will die a horrible death without doing anything meaningful and the forward deployed scoring units will die too because the SMS doesn't care about LoS. The battle will be a draw or a Tyranid victory though because the Tervigon will spawn enough extra scoring units to pull it out with objectives.

I don't understand the comments about "normal" games, at 2000pts. you can take 2 FOC charts which IS NORMAL, wether you personally like it or not. I say lets see it, it shows Tyranids in a new light with double FOC which clearly as the majority of people posting on here have not seen before, but also it shows a similar list I am trying to help my twin brother put together by using a heavy flyer approach. I say post it and ignore the nay sayers, they will get another "normal" report in the near future it sounds like.

jy2 im rooting for you on this one! I feel an optimized nids list will pull the W on this one, and that the nids are not as bad as first thought (although you should have some biovores just cause I feel they got a huge boost and are well worth their points now)

A single FOC would be a little more relevant but im happy to see a double FOC just cause you dont see many these days.

As for the LOS blocking terrain, good, im all for it, its in the game for a reason and if the high and mighty taudar cant win with it well boo hoo, welcome to every other armies life when they have to play Taudar on an open field.

For the double FOC nay sayers, go look up the other thousand battle reports that are out there since the new nids release and stop whinning that this one is Double FOC

 jy2 wrote:
Perhaps people aren't ready for this report.

Perhaps I shall start off my Tyranid battle with another report.

View this thread as the new Tyranid release perhaps. They will complain no matter what if it isn't what they want to the letter!

But, suffice to say that an enlightened few are still looking forward to it.
I like the base of your list a lot, primarily the Venomthrope+Bastion+Zoanthrope. I've already included that combo in my lists, which I'll be testing Friday. Good luck!

Besides, in a world with Allied slots, inquisition slots, dataslate slots and self-allying slots, I think we can take it easy on Nids for using a Double Force Org at the appropriate amount of points...

DarthDiggler wrote:
Double FOC is a huge boon for the Tyranids. Really not a realistic way to test the new codex.

On top of that, and much more important, you are playing on a table with 18 LOS blocking structures. That is ridiculous. to balance it out you should play another game with no terrain at all.

18 LOS blocking pieces of terrain really break the game as much as playing on the plains of Nebraska does.

Here is the prediction.

Tau will spend the game trying to kill the 4 Flyrants, Gargoyles and raveners who make it into the Tau lines bacuse of all that LOS blocking terrain. The 3 little Tau troop units get killed along with all the Bug attackers, but the Bugs still win because small squads of bug scoring units will remain alive in the backfield behind LOS blocking terrain.

^^ This!

The batrep does not prove anything because not every game is 2000+ points and allowing double FOC. It is a crutch list. jy2 I would like to see you really show how good is the new codex... don't listen to the fanbois...

 jy2 wrote:
Perhaps people aren't ready for this report.

Perhaps I shall start off my Tyranid battle with another report.

There is often a disconnect between the first impression of a codex, and the combinations and possibilities of what it really can do. There are a lot of naysayers right now about the Tyranid codex, and it is not getting any love so this report was a chance to see if the codex can really compete in the hands of a skilled player.

So we were all looking forward to a 1500-1750-1850 point game to see if they can do alright in a normal game of 40k.

You and Jathkin are some of the main Tyranid players through 6th edition and we wanted to see what you can do with this codex. This battle report means they we do not get to see how the codex operates in the hands of a skilled general under normal circumstances.

So your report came as a bit of a disappointment to see that you took a double force org army (that 99% of the people don’t play) and spammed a unit that is very good. The problem is also compounded by the fact that your opponent took a single force org army, and there is a ton of LOS blocking terrain.

Because of these factors there is little to be learned by your game.

 jy2 wrote:
Perhaps people aren't ready for this report.

Perhaps I shall start off my Tyranid battle with another report.

Nah, it may not be "enlightening" to those of us who hate double FOC, but I'm sure it'll still be an interesting read!

Also, there are two large tournaments in the Bay Area this year (BAO and Golden Throne), one of which is 2000 points/double FOC. So, while this may not be an applicable list for many tournaments, it's not garbage, either. Jy2 could pretty much post any battle report and I'd be happy. I'm really excited to see how he tackles the new nids at any point level.

Can people please lay off the FOC and terrain?

1. Im pretty sure this wont be the first and last report with the nids
2. If you don't want to watch this one then wait until the next!!

Eagerly awaiting this jy2! I hope that you can garner some competitiveness out of the dex. I for one understand that with the percieved "bonuses" of the double FOC and LOS blocking terrain (helps jumping Tau as well) there will be a TON of things to learn from this!

bodazoka wrote:
Can people please lay off the FOC and terrain?

1. Im pretty sure this wont be the first and last report with the nids
2. If you don't want to watch this one then wait until the next!!

Eagerly awaiting this jy2! I hope that you can garner some competitiveness out of the dex. I for one understand that with the percieved "bonuses" of the double FOC and LOS blocking terrain (helps jumping Tau as well) there will be a TON of things to learn from this!

I totally agree with this sentiment. I'm looking forward to the rep.

I think double FOC like this is an excellent opener! It would be very telling if - given the observations people have made here (2xFOC, terrain, anti-air), and Jy2's playing skill - 'nids still got smashed.

Hey Jy2. Just want to send out a positive note that I, for one, really appreciate all the time and effort you put into your reports. Especially the tactical analysis. I'm very much looking forward to this and future 'Nid bat reps.

How the dex performs with you at the helm will determine whether or not this is the edition that Nids finally make their way into my collection AND I' personally am just as keen to see how they do with 2 Charts as I am to see them with one.

Thanks again.

I'm just looking forward to reading more ofyour reports jy2. Cheers.

Throws a rock at JY2. I wanna see what crones can do.

Alright sir well lets see what the flyrants can do. I already voted and originally said Tau but then noticed the 4 flyrants. I think you got this with 4 of them.

Adepticon, NOVA, WGC and BAO are all 1850 points or lower this year .

Yup, but plenty of other tournaments aren't. We don't all live in the USA you know

 LeadLegion wrote:
Yup, but plenty of other tournaments aren't. We don't all live in the USA you know

Those events pull international players from all over the world your realise right?

Tzeentch FMCs with their 4++/5++/2++ rerolling 1's already have huge problems surviving in the current meta.

I honestly don't see how Tyranid MC/FMC spam with their piddling 3+/4+ saves and no FNP can hope to accomplish anything, especially now that grav weapons are commonplace.

That Tau list is terrible. Not a Skyray in sight; no counter-assault; Buff commander is spending absurd points to buff a single riptide. Over 100 points spent getting skyfire on everything; is every other player in the game store running Flying French bakery? Mono-tau with a farseer is like half the power level of Tau/Tau.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 LeadLegion wrote:
Yup, but plenty of other tournaments aren't. We don't all live in the USA you know

Those events pull international players from all over the world your realise right?

Yeah, I know. I've always wanted to attend at least one of them myself. Just making the point that the US meta isn't the only meta out there and that not everyone on Dakka is able to attend the big cons. I'm making an educated guess that a good portion of Jy2's audience are unable to attend the big American tournaments regularly (if at all). We still read them though, for the simple reason that even if the meta is different, we can still learn a great deal from his experiences.

Edit: Asmodei's comment sums up the meta differences very well. Spam's list obviously does very well over in California, but going by Asmodei's comments, it wouldn't stand up very well in his local meta (unless he's being sarcastic and my sarcasm-dar isn't working properly). You wouldn't see his list in my local area either, but possibly that would have more to do with the general lack of regard for spam lists in my area (combined with a surprisingly low flier turnout).

 Ravenous D wrote:
So you're janking your opponent with double force org as evidence that nid dex is good?

Next.

Try to come across as less of a dick next time. This guy doesn't owe you anything.

Don't like it? Don't watch it. That goes for everybody in this thread.

@HiveFleetCollossus

2 things:

1. Love the profile pic! Best ever!
2. I agree 100%

 HiveFleetCollossus wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
So you're janking your opponent with double force org as evidence that nid dex is good?

Next.

Try to come across as less of a dick next time. This guy doesn't owe you anything.

Don't like it? Don't watch it. That goes for everybody in this thread.

OP says that he is awesome and thinks nids aren't bad, perfectly viable and is here to prove it. Apparently that means using non standard points on unfavourable tables. The second force org changes the game completely.

The rest of this message has been edited for rule #1 - MT11