Left out of your Codex

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**AlmightyWalrus**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Troike wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Troike wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Troike wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Troike wrote:
conker249 wrote:
Probably best we don't bring up the topic(allying) for those 2 armies in particular since GW refuses to produce a Faq to clarify a vast difference of opinion among this site. Already had one thread locked over it

GW has actually FAQ'd it, in a way. The Inquisition codex came with its own allies chart, and the Templars were not on there. Ergo, they use the C:SM slot.

For Codex: Inquisition, yes.

Yes, and it demonstrates their intention. If the BT were meant to retain their own allies sliot, they would've gotten a spot on the Inquisition allies table. But they didn't.

Or, you know, the designer's note in Codex: Space Marines telling us to use the BT chart tells us the intent?

Nobody could agree on that designer's note, and even GW customer service gave conflicting replies

Anyway, why remove the Templars from the Inquisition codex if they are, supposedly, meant to retain their own allies slot?

For the same reason that Brotherhood Champions in Codex: Grey Knights can take Digital Weapons despite already rerolling all to-wound rolls in close combat: no one at GW has a clue what they're doing.

And yet, the Inquisition codex did recieve and update, and the allies table was untouched. And how exactly would they accidentally draw the allies table wrong? That's an intentional action, not an oversight.

Or they just figured that Codex: Inquisition didn't need a row for Templars since the alliance level was supposed to be the same as for C:SM, so they didn't include it. There's really no need to when there's no difference between the two.

Except you stated there was a difference between the two as you keep stating. If there's no difference, then your argument is moot as BT uses the C:SM chart exactly.

There's no difference when it comes to the case of "Codex: Inquisition". There are differences in the BRB.

**Galorian**

Jefffar wrote:
The Tau used to be able to put 9 strength 10 weapons on the table fire around 650 points using 3 heavy support slots.

Now they can put 3 strength 10 and 3 strength 9 weapons on the table for around 975 point using 3 heavy support slots and 3 elite slots.

So their anti-armour firepower has taken a hit and a lot of Tau would like some of it back. It doesn't need to be Deathray or flying Railgun crazy but if Imperial Flyers can carry Lascannons, Multimeltas and Ordnance weapons, why can't Tau flyers carry something more armour busting than Seeker Missiles?

Playing against 5th ed Tau was goddamn boring- "Tau eh? Alright, better put all my vehicles back in the army box"

AV14 is supposed to be f**king tough, armies shouldn't have the ability to easily spam S10 weapons.

**Bronzefists42**

Galorian wrote:
Jefffar wrote:
The Tau used to be able to put 9 strength 10 weapons on the table fire around 650 points using 3 heavy support slots.

Now they can put 3 strength 10 and 3 strength 9 weapons on the table for around 975 point using 3 heavy support slots and 3 elite slots.

So their anti-armour firepower has taken a hit and a lot of Tau would like some of it back. It doesn't need to be Deathray or flying Railgun crazy but if Imperial Flyers can carry Lascannons, Multimeltas and Ordnance weapons, why can't Tau flyers carry something more armour busting than Seeker Missiles?

Playing against 5th ed Tau was goddamn boring- "Tau eh? Alright, better put all my vehicles back in the army box"

AV14 is supposed to be f**king tough, armies shouldn't have the ability to easily spam S10 weapons.

Yeah man us Parking lots are a dying race. I love running mechanized SM but it's hard enough keeping my stuff alive without the horrors of S 10 spam.

**Jefffar**

And I haven't suggested more Railguns. I'm just pointing out that the Tau are down on the anti-armour scale from where they used to be, and a flyer able to do more than glance heavy armour would be nice. Something like the fusion cannons from Forgeworld for hammerheads would be a great weapon for a tau ground attack flyer. Nasty against heavy infantry and light vehicles, plus, if you get close, you can do some real damage to a high AV target.

**GoliothOnline**

Jefffar wrote:
The Tau used to be able to put 9 strength 10 weapons on the table fire around 650 points using 3 heavy support slots.

Now they can put 3 strength 10 and 3 strength 9 weapons on the table for around 975 point using 3 heavy support slots and 3 elite slots.

So their anti-armour firepower has taken a hit and a lot of Tau would like some of it back. It doesn't need to be Deathray or flying Railgun crazy but if Imperial Flyers can carry Lascannons, Multimeltas and Ordnance weapons, why can't Tau flyers carry something more armour busting than Seeker Missiles?

And it was exactly those 9 str 10 weapons that were arguably holding them back. Becoming too heavily reliant on those set few, 9 models, was where Tau became crippled. GW spread the guns around and limited the availability of Str 10 Weapons so that you have a more limited field of range. Your hammer heads have 72" range with a str 10 gun.. Your Broadsides, str 8 60". If you were to give those, or any combination of Rail - weaponry to your flyers you would have total board dominance the second your planes passed their reserve rolls. I don't particularly like the Tau bomber and fighter, but they have their places. It isn't fighting av 14 though... They are meant to lay suppressing fire for the rest of the codex and deal with Aerial targets respectively.

A lot of Armies don't have the means to deal with high AV targets on their flyers.... Though if you wanted, ask gw to bump the cost of the bombers and fights to the 250+ point cost they would need to be in order for them to carry the loadout... Personally, I'd cringe at that notion and most likely sell off my Tau.

**Galorian**

Besides, Tau can still fairly reliably pop high AV vehicles with fusion crisis suit deepstrikes (from my rather extensive experience at losing vehicles to those things anyway).

**StarTrotter**

I'm okay with it as soon as my Daemon Prince gets eternal warrior

**GoliothOnline**

You know what, bring back EW to everything in the Daemon Dex period. I'm tired of this nonsense with Rapetides and Eldar running around gibbing everything. Enough of this nonsense. Bring back my EW Bloodcrushers!

**MWHistorian**

Jefffar wrote:
The Tau used to be able to put 9 strength 10 weapons on the table fire around 650 points using 3 heavy support slots.

Now they can put 3 strength 10 and 3 strength 9 weapons on the table for around 975 point using 3 heavy support slots and 3 elite slots.

So their anti-armour firepower has taken a hit and a lot of Tau would like some of it back. It doesn't need to be Deathray or flying Railgun crazy but if Imperial Flyers can carry Lascannons, Multimeltas and Ordnance weapons, why can't Tau flyers carry something more armour busting than Seeker Missiles?

Tau are already too powerful. They need the nerf bat and you want to give them more power? An army not being "super powerful excellent" at everything isn't a bad thing.

**BaalSNAFU**

MWHistorian wrote:
Jefffar wrote:
The Tau used to be able to put 9 strength 10 weapons on the table fire around 650 points using 3 heavy support slots.

Now they can put 3 strength 10 and 3 strength 9 weapons on the table for around 975 point using 3 heavy support slots and 3 elite slots.

So their anti-armour firepower has taken a hit and a lot of Tau would like some of it back. It doesn't need to be Deathray or flying Railgun crazy but if Imperial Flyers can carry Lascannons, Multimeltas and Ordnance weapons, why can't Tau flyers carry something more armour busting than Seeker Missiles?

Tau are already too powerful. They need the nerf bat and you want to give them more power? An army not being "super powerful excellent" at everything isn't a bad thing.

Quoted for truth! The ability to turn those Str 9 insta-death templates into intercepter (for 5pts!), the best MC in the game, meat shields with inv saves, the ability for tanks, and everybody near the tanks to overwatch, crisis suits with no scatter deep strike and TL fusion for less than the cost of a bike squad, armor save ignoring missile spam and the ability to straight up ignore fundamental rules like line of sight and Jeffer thinksthey need to be more powerful... seriously dude? May as well make a plastic kit for a sign that says "I WIN" that tau can take for 500 pts. It would save tau opponents the time and headache and let the tau players have what they really want at the same time. Everybody comes out on top.

**Enigma Crisis**

BaalSNAFU wrote:
MWHistorian wrote:
Jefffar wrote:
The Tau used to be able to put 9 strength 10 weapons on the table fire around 650 points using 3 heavy support slots.

Now they can put 3 strength 10 and 3 strength 9 weapons on the table for around 975 point using 3 heavy support slots and 3 elite slots.

So their anti-armour firepower has taken a hit and a lot of Tau would like some of it back. It doesn't need to be Deathray or flying Railgun crazy but if Imperial Flyers can carry Lascannons, Multimeltas and Ordnance weapons, why can't Tau flyers carry something more armour busting than Seeker Missiles?

Tau are already too powerful. They need the nerf bat and you want to give them more power? An army not being "super powerful excellent" at everything isn't a bad thing.

Quoted for truth! The ability to turn those Str 9 insta-death templates into intercepter (for 5pts!), the best MC in the game, meat shields with inv saves, the ability for tanks, and everybody near the tanks to overwatch, crisis suits with no scatter deep strike and TL fusion for less than the cost of a bike squad, armor save ignoring missile spam and the ability to straight up ignore fundamental rules like line of sight and Jeffer thinksthey need to be more powerful... seriously dude? May as well make a plastic kit for a sign that says "I WIN" that tau can take for 500 pts. It would save tau opponents the time and headache and let the tau players have what they really want at the same time. Everybody comes out on top.

I can guarantee that a majority of Tau players would love to ditch the Riptides to allow for the Broadsides to have Railguns. S9 only insta-deaths T3, it's the best MC only when spammed, and the loss of a single shield drone forces the Riptide to make a morale test.

Tanks can only overwatch their secondary systems of S5 or less unless they are Longstrike.

You need to check your math for the deepstriking no scatter Crisis Suits and bikes. You either have to pair them with Farsight or hope to roll that warlord trait for a Shas'o which will be more points than a full Gravgun squad, or rely on another squad which will be easy to remove from the board due to low armor saves or close proximity.

Seeker Missile are Krak Missiles btw and operate.

Jeffar was wanting Tau to be back to their Anti-Tank glory days of Old. Want to know which army can spam S10 now? Eldar they can field upto 9 units with it which on a to wound roll of a 6 you are insta-gibbed.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Enigma Crisis wrote:

Jeffar was wanting Tau to be back to their Anti-Tank glory days of Old. Want to know which army can spam S10 now? Eldar they can field upto 9 units with it which on a to wound roll of a 6 you are insta-gibbed.

6 of which have a 12" range and are Infantry.

Enigma Crisis wrote:

I can guarantee that a majority of Tau players would love to ditch the Riptides to allow for the Broadsides to have Railguns. S9 only insta-deaths T3, it's the best MC only when spammed, and the loss of a single shield drone forces the Riptide to make a morale test.

I can assure you that S9 in fact inflicts instant death on T4 models too. Further, I'd argue that Riptides have to be spammed to be the best MC; they're T6 W6 2+/5++ with a potential 3++ and access to FNP, while putting out stellar shooting. What MC is better than that?

**Enigma Crisis**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Enigma Crisis wrote:

Jeffar was wanting Tau to be back to their Anti-Tank glory days of Old. Want to know which army can spam S10 now? Eldar they can field upto 9 units with it which on a to wound roll of a 6 you are insta-gibbed.

6 of which have a 12" range and are Infantry.

T6 Infantry which can take a Wave Serpant and still does not mean that Eldar don't have upto 9 units that can have it.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Enigma Crisis wrote:

I can guarantee that a majority of Tau players would love to ditch the Riptides to allow for the Broadsides to have Railguns. S9 only insta-deaths T3, it's the best MC only when spammed, and the loss of a single shield drone forces the Riptide to make a morale test.

I can assure you that S9 in fact inflicts instant death on T4 models too. Further, I'd argue that Riptides have to be spammed to be the best MC; they're T6 W6 2+/5++ with a potential 3++ and access to FNP, while putting out stellar shooting. What MC is better than that?

Brain farted on the S9, I should check my math as well

To get the 3++ they risk wounding themselves and have average shooting without support. One Riptide is manageable and able to be dealt with. The closest MC to compete would be the Dreadknight and WratihKnight (which is priced as it should and the what the Riptide's price should be as well).

I would rather the Riptide be dropped all together to get Railsides S10 to ground and S8 AA firing.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Enigma Crisis wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Enigma Crisis wrote:

Jeffar was wanting Tau to be back to their Anti-Tank glory days of Old. Want to know which army can spam S10 now? Eldar they can field upto 9 units with it which on a to wound roll of a 6 you are insta-gibbed.

6 of which have a 12" range and are Infantry.

T6 Infantry which can take a Wave Serpant and still does not mean that Eldar don't have upto 9 units that can have it.

No, but a 12" weapon is awfully limited as anti-tank if you can't Deep Strike or Outflank or somehow get close without having to ride up in a non-open topped transport.

**Enigma Crisis**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Enigma Crisis wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Enigma Crisis wrote:

Jeffar was wanting Tau to be back to their Anti-Tank glory days of Old. Want to know which army can spam S10 now? Eldar they can field upto 9 units with it which on a to wound roll of a 6 you are insta-gibbed.

6 of which have a 12" range and are Infantry.

T6 Infantry which can take a Wave Serpant and still does not mean that Eldar don't have upto 9 units that can have it.

No, but a 12" weapon is awfully limited as anti-tank if you can't Deep Strike or Outflank or somehow get close without having to ride up in a non-open topped transport.

True I haven't really missed the loss of the S10 Broadsides to be honest. It's the loss of the Tau's mobility in our heavy support as I said early in the thread. No vehicle Multi-trackers means our vehicles will be semi-stationary, no A.S.S. for the broadsides means they will be firing Snap shots if the move. If they kept it in you wouldn't have to worry about the Broadsides firing overwatch because of Slow and Purposeful.

**Kain**

Panzer1944 wrote:
Love to hear thoughts on what you feel should be in your codex but for some reason it’s just not there. Whether it be a piece of wargear upgrade, weapon, vehicle, what have you as long as it’s something that pretty much established in Warhammer 40k fluff that your army should have access to.

EX.
In Codex: Inquisition, you don’t have access to Inquisitorial Stormtroopers. Sure you can upgrade a guy to get a hot-shot lasgun and carapace armour but still only BS3 instead of BS4 like true Stormtroopers. Even on the GW site in their fluff for the models they have them states they are used by the inquisition, http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1580022 as well as pictures of them in the digital codex saying how the model can be used for upgraded acolytes, so why not just have them in the book as a unit as a troop then?

Spores and biomancy. Most of my quibbles with my main book would go away if I had those back.

**Bharring**

Corsair Vypers.

Eldar non-gamebreaking transport for more than 6 models...
And a reason to take Falcons.

**Zathras**

Galorian wrote:
Periahs!

Also, warscythes in fluff have built in Gauss flayers and noteworthy space marines have repeatedly been shown to be incapable of or at least have serious trouble to keep up with the speed, skill and reaction times of Necron lords/overlords.

Both facts are suspeciously absent from the Codex...

Also, Overlords are WAAAY too high up the totem pole of Necron society for them to be the basic HQ choice, it's the equivalent of sending a Sector Governor or Chapter Master to war leading a company level force. Sure, it could happen (does happen often enough for the latter), but as the default, cheapest choice?

Do you think it'll make sense for a chapter master to be the default, cheaper HQ choice of a generic SM company?

And Phaerons... Oh boy... I could see "small fry" phaerons of lesser Dynasties being reasonable choices for higher cost HQ choices in regular games, but how often do you suppose Sementum command or a Lord of Terra takes to the field leading a small strike force (or even a sizable one, say a regiment)?

Imotekh the Stormlord has no business leading anything below apocalypse point levels- he's got an entire hierarchy of lesser subordinates to lead such small engagements for him (hell, I do believe most named HQ choices in the book ARE his subordinates).

I did like how how FW handled it though- the Phaeon of the Maynarkh Dynasty, the Mother of Darkness, is named and mentioned at some points in IA12, but the highest HQ choice you can actually field is her Nemesor, Kultekh the Worldkiller, and he's a big enough honcho to get the Phaeron trait in his statline, being the commander of the armies of a major Dynasty.

Still, Lords should be the basic HQ choices, not Overlords.

Let me add a few things to your list:

Necron vehicles should have some form of self repair due to being made of Living Metal.
Gauss Weaponry should get its Wound on a 6 rule back from the previous codex.
A Warlord trait chart that doesn't suck.

For other codex:

CSM - Bring back the Sacred Number rules for each god.
Orks - Bring back the Clan rules (hopefully this will be taken care of in the next codex rumored for this year).

**Galorian**

Enigma Crisis wrote:
One Riptide is manageable and able to be dealt with.

EVERYTHING should be manageable and able to be dealt with, otherwise the game is BROKEN (which it is).

**Kain**

Also, can I have my "without number" back?

Tyranids should not be outswarmed by a borderline offensive Soviet stereotype.

**hellpato**

One word : pyrovore as elite.

**Galorian**

hellpato wrote:
One word : pyrovore as elite.

That's three words...

**Melissia**

I can do a one word thing though.

PLASTICS!

Yes, I'm harping on this point. It's still a valid point.

**Kain**

Galorian wrote:
hellpato wrote:
One word : pyrovore as elite.

That's three words...

To be fair, even the Pyrovore's fluff is hardly flattering. They're described as being the functional equivalent of functionally slowed acid mouthed murder cows with a dragon stapled onto them.

**Galorian**

Kain wrote:
Galorian wrote:
hellpato wrote:
One word : pyrovore as elite.

That's three words...

To be fair, even the Pyrovore's fluff is hardly flattering. They're described as being the functional equivalent of functionally slowed acid mouthed murder cows with a dragon stapled onto them.

Sounds legit.

**Kain**

Galorian wrote:
Kain wrote:
Galorian wrote:
hellpato wrote:
One word : pyrovore as elite.

That's three words...

To be fair, even the Pyrovore's fluff is hardly flattering. They're described as being the functional equivalent of functionally slowed acid mouthed murder cows with a dragon stapled onto them.

Sounds legit.

Their weapon is smarter than they are. Which is...all kinds of silly.

**Galorian**

Kain wrote:
Galorian wrote:
Kain wrote:
Galorian wrote:
hellpato wrote:
One word : pyrovore as elite.

That's three words...

To be fair, even the Pyrovore's fluff is hardly flattering. They're described as being the functional equivalent of functionally slowed acid mouthed murder cows with a dragon stapled onto them.

Sounds legit.

Their weapon is smarter than they are. Which is...all kinds of silly.

They just have to be standing the right way, the gun has to actually aim and plot out ballistic trajectories!

**Kanluwen**

Vultures and anti-aircraft Sentinels.

Clearly though that was just a mistake and will be rectified with Codex: Kanluwen's Guard.

**BaalSNAFU**

AA Sentinel? Frag missile launcher on it?

**Kain**

Galorian wrote:
Kain wrote:
Galorian wrote:
Kain wrote:
Galorian wrote:
hellpato wrote:
One word : pyrovore as elite.

That's three words...

To be fair, even the Pyrovore's fluff is hardly flattering. They're described as being the functional equivalent of functionally slowed acid mouthed murder cows with a dragon stapled onto them.

Sounds legit.

Their weapon is smarter than they are. Which is...all kinds of silly.

They just have to be standing the right way, the gun has to actually aim and plot out ballistic trajectories!

But it's a flamethrower used by a faction that cares nothing for friendly fire. Not exactly much need for precision.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BaalSNAFU wrote:
AA Sentinel? Frag missile launcher on it?

Given where the weapons are mounted on a Sentinel I can't see how you'd get a decent anti-fixed wing aircraft weapon out of a sentinel. Now against slower vehicles like aircraft they'd still work fine.