Re-rolling 1s on Blast weapons

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**BlackTalos**

Poll for this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/572358.page

If OP of the thread copies the Poll this will be a duplicate thread.

Re-rolling Scatter with Earth Cast Array:

Some believe there is no limitation on what can Re-Roll
Some believe there are limitations on what can Re-Roll
It is as simple as that.

If you are in a Tournament then run the rules by an organizer to ensure you do not run fowl of their rules. For friendly games you should discuss it with an opponent if you really want to use this piece of war-gear for Re-Rolling blast markers. Personally, I would never use a Re-Roll of 1 to Re-Roll a Blast marker as it doesn't feel right to me: The Re-Roll of 1 was designed to be a 'random chance' thing, that is to say it obviously isn't designed to grant you the ability to Re-Roll every time. The outlook that there is no limitations would grant the Rip-Tide the chance to use it 100% of the time, should they decide, instead of the 16.5% chance it is meant to have.

**nosferatu1001**

Rules wise the rules only require that you have a Reroll, not "how good " a Reroll you have. Reroll all failed, all ones to hit etc are all rerolls to hit.

**Formosa**

Don't debate the rule in here, thats for the other thread

I voted yes, I can't see where rr blasts differentiates types of rr

**nosferatu1001**

I was presenting the other side.

also, was this meant to be a RAW or HYWPI poll?

**Formosa**

How it will be played was my suggestion, I assumed that with my vote

**nosferatu1001**

RAW and HIWPI concur so my vote of yes wouldn't alter, however badly worded polls aren't always the most reliable ones to draw conclusions from...

**BlackTalos**

Formosa wrote:
Don't debate the rule in here, thats for the other thread

I voted yes, I can't see where rr blasts differentiates types of rr

Don't forget (hope the poll was clear enough) that this is only RR of 1, like preferred enemy. Not just simple rr...

**nosferatu1001**

Reroll to-hit of one, indeed.

When the rule only requires you to have the ability to reroll your to-hit rolls, ANY reroll satisfies that as it is unconditional

Same as in the prior threads on this, you are assuming page 33 places conditions on how "good " a Reroll you need, but cannot actually show this.

If you can reroll all failed to hit rolls, do you have the ability to reroll your to-hit role? Yes

If you Reroll to-hit of 1, do you have the SAME ability? Yes

If you disagree, an actual rule showing where this supposed condition on how good a reroll you need would be helpful

**BlackTalos**

Just specifying the subject of the Poll, arguments are for the other thread ;-)

**nosferatu1001**

Yep, and the poster clearly knew what the poll was about, hence "types of rr" context meaning "how good a rr you have"

Is this hywpi or RAW? Badly worded polls (in future loom at the way YAk etc word them) aren't the most reliable.

**BlackTalos**

Fixed

**busby**

Voted no because you cannot create the reroll condition without first reaching the 1 requirement which is impossible for blast.

**BlackTalos**

busby wrote:
Voted no because you cannot create the reroll condition without first reaching the 1 requirement which is impossible for blast.

Please just Vote, this is Poll only, no arguments ;-)

**nosferatu1001**

busby wrote:
Voted no because you cannot create the reroll condition without first reaching the 1 requirement which is impossible for blast.

Page 33 doesn't require you to have rolled to hit , just have the ABILITY to reroll to hit. A Rr of 1s is indisputably an ability to Reroll your to hit rolls. Your continued insistence on misreading this rule is impressive

**Chardun**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
busby wrote:
Voted no because you cannot create the reroll condition without first reaching the 1 requirement which is impossible for blast.

Page 33 doesn't require you to have rolled to hit , just have the ABILITY to reroll to hit. A Rr of 1s is indisputably an ability to Reroll your to hit rolls. Your continued insistence on misreading this rule is impressive

But it doesn't gain the ability until it rolls a one.

Not trying to piss in anyones cheerios, as I've read the other thread and do feel it is a big circular argument.

**busby**

BlackTalos wrote:
busby wrote:
Voted no because you cannot create the reroll condition without first reaching the 1 requirement which is impossible for blast.

Please just Vote, this is Poll only, no arguments ;-)

Sorry.

**Rapture**

Why is the argued permission for the re-roll potential not quoted? Are people supposed to take the poll without knowing what the actual rule language people are disagreeing over?

**HoverBoy**

Rapture wrote:
Why is the argued permission for the re-roll potential not quoted? Are people supposed to take the poll without knowing what the actual rule language people are disagreeing over?

It's in an official book, posting it here could get dakka in trouble.

I think this pool won't give as conclusive an answer as the OP would like, because many people who understand both sides will vote HIWPI rather than RAW.

**grendel083**

Rapture wrote:
Why is the argued permission for the re-roll potential not quoted? Are people supposed to take the poll without knowing what the actual rule language people are disagreeing over?

They're supposed to read the relevent thread that was included in the original post. That arguement and all others are listed there.

BlackTalos wrote:
Poll for this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/572358.page

**Rapture**

That thread is 8 pages long. How many people do you honestly believe read it in its entirety or even at all?

HoverBoy wrote:

It's in an official book, posting it here could get dakka in trouble.

It would constitute a fair use. Besides, that quote is already on this site at least a dozen times.

**rigeld2**

HoverBoy wrote:
I think this pool won't give as conclusive an answer as the OP would like, because many people who understand both sides will vote HIWPI rather than RAW.

Then they're not answering honestly as the poll explicitly asks for the RAW answer.

**liturgies of blood**

Can I ask, is this A) a case where you have the ability to get a re-roll as you have preferred enemy or B) where you are shooting at an enemy that is your preferred enemy and you have the rule?

**sirlynchmob**

FYI. If you vote for rerolling 1's, you are also voting for ammo runts granting blast rerolls all game long.

Ammo runts grant a reroll to a model
Blast allows reroll of scatter dice because the model does have the ability to reroll.
see the condition on how good of a reroll it is, is irrelevant.

like Nos says

If you can reroll all failed to hit rolls, do you have the ability to reroll your to-hit role? Yes

If you Reroll to-hit of 1, do you have the SAME ability? Yes

If you disagree, an actual rule showing where this supposed condition on how good a reroll you need would be helpful

**Kisada II**

I'd say it's very similar to gets hot on blasts where any kind of reroll including BS 6 would allow for a complete reroll.

**BlackTalos**

liturgies of blood wrote:
Can I ask, is this A) a case where you have the ability to get a re-roll as you have preferred enemy or B) where you are shooting at an enemy that is your preferred enemy and you have the rule?

How are these different? please expand.

The subject of the Poll is Rerolls of 1, so Earth Cast Array, Preferred enemy, even BS 6+ and any others.

**Rapture**

BlackTalos wrote:
liturgies of blood wrote:
Can I ask, is this A) a case where you have the ability to get a re-roll as you have preferred enemy or B) where you are shooting at an enemy that is your preferred enemy and you have the rule?

How are these different? please expand.

The subject of the Poll is Rerolls of 1, so Earth Cast Array, Preferred enemy, even BS 6+ and any others.

The problem with this poll is that it fails to differentiate. BS6+ uses language (I.e. models 'gaining' the ability to re-roll 1s only after they roll To Hit dice - see p13) that sets it apart from a lot of the other rules like PE or ECPA. A vote for/against PE might not be a vote for/against BS6+.

**liturgies of blood**

BlackTalos wrote:
liturgies of blood wrote:
Can I ask, is this A) a case where you have the ability to get a re-roll as you have preferred enemy or B) where you are shooting at an enemy that is your preferred enemy and you have the rule?

How are these different? please expand.

The subject of the Poll is Rerolls of 1, so Earth Cast Array, Preferred enemy, even BS 6+ and any others.

The last protracted thread had someone arguing that having the preferred enemy rule was enough to gain a re-roll, while I think shooting at a preferred enemy as that is when you actually have the ability to re-roll not the potential for the ability.
I do think blanket re-rolls of 1 for shooting grant the re-roll of scatter but I think you have to meet the caveats of your rule that grants the re-roll of a 1 to gain it.

**BlackTalos**

liturgies of blood wrote:
BlackTalos wrote:
liturgies of blood wrote:
Can I ask, is this A) a case where you have the ability to get a re-roll as you have preferred enemy or B) where you are shooting at an enemy that is your preferred enemy and you have the rule?

How are these different? please expand.

The subject of the Poll is Rerolls of 1, so Earth Cast Array, Preferred enemy, even BS 6+ and any others.

The last protracted thread had someone arguing that having the preferred enemy rule was enough to gain a re-roll, while I think shooting at a preferred enemy as that is when you actually have the ability to re-roll not the potential for the ability.
I do think blanket re-rolls of 1 for shooting grant the re-roll of scatter but I think you have to meet the caveats of your rule that grants the re-roll of a 1 to gain it.

So you would vote Yes: Preferred Enemy (Orks) allows you to re-roll scatter against Orks. Even though the Rule specifies: "re-rolls failed To Hit rolls of 1", you would re-roll your Scatter & 2D6.

**liturgies of blood**

Yes, if the blast weapon was shot at orcs. I'm not sure it's RAI but it is a re-roll.

**BarBoBot**

Didnt see RAW in the question when I voted. I would have voted #1

RAW if you have any reroll you can reroll scatter.

HIWPI is if a model rerolls 1's, you only reroll 1's, not scatter. I see the arguement for both sides though, so I wouldn't argue it in a game if my opponent did not agree.