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I think so.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Does shrouded confer to the bastion itself when the venomthrope is inside?

Although it is debatable, I believe it is a firm 'no'.

Fortifications are not models as defined by the game, as they do not have a model type (something required for a 'model' to have), instead they just have a 'terrain type'. Now, in some cases, the rules still do refer to fortification as 'models', but this is just a general use of the word, because the rules are quite specific that all models (as far as the game rules are concerned) have a model type. That's why the rules have to specify how you're allowed to shoot a building ('like a vehicle'), because on its own you could not normally target a building (because it is not a model per the rules and therefore cannot be a unit that you can target).


So long story short, the Bastion is not a model, and only models (from Codex Tyranids) within 6" benefit from the Venomthrope's ability.

Looking forward to reading this report, thanks Jim.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Does shrouded confer to the bastion itself when the venomthrope is inside?

I think in the BAO FAQ there's something about fortifications not gaining benefits from things like the Kustom Force Field so I would say no.

The new Stronghold Assault rules do change how buildings are viewed though:

In many respects, these buildings function like any other unit in a player's army; the major difference is that they can be captured by the enemy...

Sadly they do not list all the differences or qualify in what respects it's NOT a unit then..

We've been playing that buildings can benefit from things like Night Fighting's Stealth/Shrouded now though.

Turn 1 up on p.1.


Will finish the report tomorrow.

Are you charging with your spore mines on the turn they arrive (or running with them if they're too far out of charge range)?

Just curious.

 yakface wrote:

Are you charging with your spore mines on the turn they arrive (or running with them if they're too far out of charge range)?

Just curious.

That's interesting, I hadn't even thought of that! I assume you mean that, as the Spore mines created by Biovores and Harpies technically didn't arrive from reserves, there's nothing stopping them from assaulting?

 Redemption wrote:

That's interesting, I hadn't even thought of that! I assume you mean that, as the Spore mines created by Biovores and Harpies technically didn't arrive from reserves, there's nothing stopping them from assaulting?

Exactly. I don't even think it is a loophole.

Spore Mines have dramatically changed...they ONLY blow up on their own in combat, if the enemy shoots them, they just die now. So even though you get to charge the same turn they are placed on the table, their charge range is half what is rolled and the enemy is still going to get to overwatch at them (and given their stats, pretty much any hit is a kill now).

One interesting thing about the bugs now is that it is one of the only armies that can reliably attack ongoing combats, both with Spore Mines and with the Mawloc's burrowing attack. I wonder if someone could work out an army strategy using lots of little cheap bugs to tie the enemy up in combat and then hit them with Spore Mines and Mawloc attacks. Probably not very effective (as you'll sacrifice a bunch of tiny bugs to do this each time), but is certainly different and interesting.

Thanks for the kind words and encouragement, guys. I will keep on writing battle reports as long as people are still interested in reading about them.

 doktor_g wrote:
Well, I don't know who I'm rooting for? I like underdogs so I should root for the tyranids. BUT, I took such a beating from John's biker list at the Golden Throne I want him to just thrash a top tier guy like you jy! Go John!!!!! See you guys in Vegas!

Plus, I think John's Captain lights up! I mean that's just cool!

Wished I could have gone to the Golden Throne last year to defend my title, but at least I got to play the Golden Throne winner (as well as Frankie's brutal 6-ravager DE list).

John and I have only played once thus far. Going into this game, I was 1-0 against him.

BTW, were you the guy at the Golden Throne with the humongous ork army...the one that required an assistant?

 Dezstiny wrote:
***Also to note, no RP can ever take the same power meaning he can't have 2x Jaws.

White Scars Objectives
- jaws carnifex's and do best to kill venomthrope in the building to deny shrouded and get F.B.
- ground just one flyrant on his second turn and shoot it down with grav guns bikers while the stormtalons kill the other one
- Move up the RP, JAWS the carnifex squad.
- Take out the Zoanthrope (Now Jy2 only has Synapse based on Tervigon and can easily take scouring, and purge the alien shouldn't be that tough either with so many bug units)
-Jaws the Tervigon

Nids Objectives
-Shoot at the biker grav squads and reduce the threat of grav guns
-pull back dakkafexes out of sight of Jaws until dealt with
- shoot at the RP unit, and assault with fly -rants
- break out come back up and shoot down stormtalons now that they have gone past the Tyrants
- Use the Dakkafexes to wipe stragglers
-re-assault into the Achilles/last biker squad

Nice write-up.

My actual objectives.

- Shoot up Rune Priest's unit. Then take out grav guns.
- Ram the carnifexes right down his throat. Play very aggressively with them. If you position them correctly, his RP will only be able to get 1 dakkafex from a distance with Jaws. In any case, use the carnifexes to draw out his other RP from the land raider so that my flyrants can deal with him.
- Flyrants won't assault unless I can isolate a unit from the rest of the army. Otherwise, the flyrant will be dead once his guys Hit-&-Run out of combat and his army shoots my grounded flyrants to bits.

thanatos67 wrote:
I feel like you have the advantage in this matchup, pending how the storm talons do vs the flyrants. His list is very low model and low unit count, even with combat squads he doesnt have a ton of units to force grounding checks. Basically I see this game coming down to this: if the talons can gang up at some point and take down a flyrant he'll be in a much better position. Otherwise you can bully him with the threat range on the flyrants and eliminate his relatively flimsy troop units. His tanky chapter master wont be too much help due to the speed of the flyrants, either. Should be a good showing for the bugs.

Yeah, I believe I have an advantage as well. However, Jaws is such a wild card. If my opponent gets lucky with it, he may just pull off what I feel would be an upset.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Does shrouded confer to the bastion itself when the venomthrope is inside?

 yakface wrote:

Although it is debatable, I believe it is a firm 'no'.

Fortifications are not models as defined by the game, as they do not have a model type (something required for a 'model' to have), instead they just have a 'terrain type'. Now, in some cases, the rules still do refer to fortification as 'models', but this is just a general use of the word, because the rules are quite specific that all models (as far as the game rules are concerned) have a model type. That's why the rules have to specify how you're allowed to shoot a building ('like a vehicle'), because on its own you could not normally target a building (because it is not a model per the rules and therefore cannot be a unit that you can target).


So long story short, the Bastion is not a model, and only models (from Codex Tyranids) within 6" benefit from the Venomthrope's ability.

In the game, we played it as a yes. If you can embark into it, then it must be a friendly unit for your army.

However, after looking at the rules once again, the bastion is not a unit from the Tyranid codex, so now I would say it is a no.


It didn't really make a difference in the game as I never had to make a save for the bastion. My opponent only shot at it once (on Turn 1) but then decided not to do so again when he realized that he could only glance it on a 6 with his multi-meltas from 24" out.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 y0disisray wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Does shrouded confer to the bastion itself when the venomthrope is inside?

I think in the BAO FAQ there's something about fortifications not gaining benefits from things like the Kustom Force Field so I would say no.

You're right. I just looked it up right now.

 yakface wrote:

Are you charging with your spore mines on the turn they arrive (or running with them if they're too far out of charge range)?

Just curious.

I didn't in this game (because I totally forgot about them) but I believe that you currently can, though I don't think GW intends for you to be able to do so. Expect it to be FAQ'd.

I also spoke to Reece about it in our game and he believes the same thing.

Nice write-up.

My actual objectives.

- Shoot up Rune Priest's unit. Then take out grav guns.
- Ram the carnifexes right down his throat. Play very aggressively with them. If you position them correctly, his RP will only be able to get 1 dakkafex from a distance with Jaws. In any case, use the carnifexes to draw out his other RP from the land raider so that my flyrants can deal with him.
- Flyrants won't assault unless I can isolate a unit from the rest of the army. Otherwise, the flyrant will be dead once his guys Hit-&-Run out of combat and his army shoots my grounded flyrants to bits.

@Jy2
Jea, I actually spent a little while debating that myself. If you shoot up the runepriest and fail to take him out then the grav gun bikers are free on the ground. With talons coming in and plenty of fire power every grounded tyrant would be a dead tyrant so by neutralizing the grav gun bikers there wouldn't be a serious threat for them if they did get grounded and they could get into combat without worry of being taken out by grav guns. Hopefully get tied up in assault with the rune priest in actual close combat and kill him there with a stomp attack, while that is going on the talons themselves wouldn't be able to shoot at the flyrants. Break out of the combats and shoot the talons once the pass over in rear arc. with the opponent knowing there is major threat from the flyrants that might even give a daredevil move to start moving the carnifexes up the field. They could then maybe even be in range to take some pop shots at the talons as they have 36 twin linked str6 shots which is pretty good odds of taking down one of the talons. From there it would just be cleaning up stragglers popping the Achilles and taking out the other rune priest inside. I guess it would come down to what seems to be more important and I deemed the Flyrants as more important in this matchup to survive the match as they are synapse, capable of easily shooting down flyers, and some of the most sturdiest units on the field. In addition to that by taking out the grav gun bikers, that also helps free up the exocrine who would probably be a target for the grav gun bikers who I'm sure wouldn't spend time trying snap shots at the flyrants. They if teamed up together would be very dangerous if they could run down my flank. They could take out the Tyrannofex, then the tervigon and there goes all the gaunts, and then after that 1 zoanthrope and now the biker player has put a lot of synapse stress on you. while still having the talons to be able to try and deal with the flyrants. All in all I guess we'll see how everything played out

Note:
One of the biker units was the R.P. I thought he had them with the Grey hunters

Edit 1*
In objective games I almost always go second myself , the only exceptions are against DarkEldar and Tau. I just don't like the idea of my opponent getting an extra turn to put 100+ poision shots into whatever they like, and I also don't like someone ignoring all the cover with pathfinders and then blowing me to with Riptide Ionaccelerators

My pipettes about first 3 turns

Omg! Omg! I can't believe he moved up in range of all 3 dakka fexes and the flyrants , 60 twin-linked str 6 shots.
-I personally would have backed up some and waited to see about more support from his Talons rather than get in range of that much shooting. 24 shots is much better than 60.
-Choosing not to take out that venemthrope.... I'm not a big fan of that idea.
-He continues to shoot at the Carnifexes which I do believe was the right choice in his situation but that decision not to try and take out the venemthrope decision is really hurting him now.

Battle report completed.

 Dezstiny wrote:

Nice write-up.

My actual objectives.

- Shoot up Rune Priest's unit. Then take out grav guns.
- Ram the carnifexes right down his throat. Play very aggressively with them. If you position them correctly, his RP will only be able to get 1 dakkafex from a distance with Jaws. In any case, use the carnifexes to draw out his other RP from the land raider so that my flyrants can deal with him.
- Flyrants won't assault unless I can isolate a unit from the rest of the army. Otherwise, the flyrant will be dead once his guys Hit-&-Run out of combat and his army shoots my grounded flyrants to bits.

@Jy2
Jea, I actually spent a little while debating that myself. If you shoot up the runepriest and fail to take him out then the grav gun bikers are free on the ground. With talons coming in and plenty of fire power every grounded tyrant would be a dead tyrant so by neutralizing the grav gun bikers there wouldn't be a serious threat for them if they did get grounded and they could get into combat without worry of being taken out by grav guns. Hopefully get tied up in assault with the rune priest in actual close combat and kill him there with a stomp attack, while that is going on the talons themselves wouldn't be able to shoot at the flyrants. Break out of the combats and shoot the talons once the pass over in rear arc. with the opponent knowing there is major threat from the flyrants that might even give a daredevil move to start moving the carnifexes up the field. They could then maybe even be in range to take some pop shots at the talons as they have 36 twin linked str6 shots which is pretty good odds of taking down one of the talons. From there it would just be cleaning up stragglers popping the Achilles and taking out the other rune priest inside. I guess it would come down to what seems to be more important and I deemed the Flyrants as more important in this matchup to survive the match as they are synapse, capable of easily shooting down flyers, and some of the most sturdiest units on the field. In addition to that by taking out the grav gun bikers, that also helps free up the tyrannofex who would probably be a target for the grav gun bikers who I'm sure wouldn't spend time trying snap shots at the flyrants. They if teamed up together would be very dangerous if they could run down my flank. They could take out the Tyrannofex, then the tervigon and there goes all the gaunts, and then after that 1 zoanthrope and now the biker player has put a lot of synapse stress on you. while still having the talons to be able to try and deal with the flyrants. All in all I guess we'll see how everything played out

Note:
One of the biker units was the R.P. I thought he had them with the Grey hunters

Edit 1*
In objective games I almost always go second myself , the only exceptions are against DarkEldar and Tau. I just don't like the idea of my opponent getting an extra turn to put 100+ poision shots into whatever they like, and I also don't like someone ignoring all the cover with pathfinders and then blowing me to with Riptide Ionaccelerators

My pipettes about first 3 turns

Omg! Omg! I can't believe he moved up in range of all 3 dakka fexes and the flyrants , 60 twin-linked str 6 shots.
-I personally would have backed up some and waited to see about more support from his Talons rather than get in range of that much shooting. 24 shots is much better than 60.
-Choosing not to take out that venemthrope.... I'm not a big fan of that idea.
-He continues to shoot at the Carnifexes which I do believe was the right choice in his situation but that decision not to try and take out the venemthrope decision is really hurting him now.

Just a few points:

1. The venomthrope is actually in the bastion, not on top (I just put him up there as a reminder to my opponent that he is inside). Thus, he couldn't have shot at the venomthrope.

2. He had 2 Rune Priests. One was inside the LR with the grey hunters. The other was on a bike with a combat squad.

3. Maximum range of biker shooting and Jaws is 24" (I think grav guns may be even shorter than that). That means if he wanted to mount any type of offense, then he would have to put himself inside the threat range of my MC's with devourers. So unless he avoids them directly and fled, I'm going to most likely be able to shoot at them. Don't forget I've got 2 Onslaughts so I could give my dakkafexes a range of potentially 31-36".

4. I'm not that concerned about grav-guns, not when I'm getting 3+ cover and FNP for my TMC's.

Great report! Thanks for doing it up. Not surprised at the outcome, you played well and with the right synergy, the bugs look to be a force to be reckoned with. Catalyst helps, for sure. Looking forward to the rest of your reports with the Nids!

Good game fellas

Just a few points:

1. The venomthrope is actually in the bastion, not on top (I just put him up there as a reminder to my opponent that he is inside). Thus, he couldn't have shot at the venomthrope.

2. He had 2 Rune Priests. One was inside the LR with the grey hunters. The other was on a bike with a combat squad.

3. Maximum range of biker shooting and Jaws is 24" (I think grav guns may be even shorter than that). That means if he wanted to mount any type of offense, then he would have to put himself inside the threat range of my MC's with devourers. So unless he avoids them directly and fled, I'm going to most likely be able to shoot at them. Don't forget I've got 2 Onslaughts so I could give my dakkafexes a range of potentially 31-36".

4. I'm not that concerned about grav-guns, not when I'm getting 3+ cover and FNP for my TMC's.

Jea, I still believe he should've tried to pull your guys out more closer towards him so as the they would be out of range of the venemthrope or the venemthrope would come outside inorder to keep up with them giving him a chance to kill it. By coming to you, you had no had no reason to move up and outside of venomthrope range with the carnifexes and or the flyrants. 3+ cover was just ludicrous and denying him his strength of taking so much ap weaponry. Other than good game to both players

Well his chapter master appeared to be unarmed for combat, and he definitely made some head scratching choices. Not sure why he didn't focus on your flyrants first actually. They are your only forward synapse source. I'm not saying it's an easy feat but moving into range of all those brainleech devourers was funny to watch but not very wise.

I think his ruin priests should be in a drop pod like all good wolf allies as well. Had he down this he would have SERIOUSLY messed with your deployment, probably forcing you to deploy your gants to screen back the pod, thus giving his thunderfire canon a better target. I hate the achilles in his list. Serves no purpose other then to waste points in a list that has so few models as it is. He could have bought a pod and 2! more T-fire canons AND had points for a proper weapon on his CM.

God I forgot how fugly that armorcast exocrine was lol. It did take me back though, just not to a friendly place

Good writeup! Now take on something none MEQ. Or at least elite MEQ. I think low body count marines aren't a huge challenge to your list. Fewer grounding checks, easy to eliminate with massed devourers. Nothing is afforded expandability to handle your bastion. Etc. etc.

Very enjoyable read though!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jy2 wrote:




3. Maximum range of biker shooting and Jaws is 24" (I think grav guns may be even shorter than that). That means if he wanted to mount any type of offense, then he would have to put himself inside the threat range of my MC's with devourers. So unless he avoids them directly and fled, I'm going to most likely be able to shoot at them. Don't forget I've got 2 Onslaughts so I could give my dakkafexes a range of potentially 31-36".

4. I'm not that concerned about grav-guns, not when I'm getting 3+ cover and FNP for my TMC's.

3. See my comment and why a pod would help his list so much. Forcing you to deal with the backfield makes you back track.

4. I agree, I don't use grav guns on scoring troops. It doesn't help that I don't own any but I feel their range makes your scoring units suicide squads which is a no no for elite armies.

@ Red Corsair
Jea, I agree with practically everything you said buddy. Moving up in range was pretty scuicidal and giving Jy2 home field advantage with the bastion and venomthropes. He could've held them back in protection with Achilles and made the Nids come out some more or to draw out the Venomthrope. The stormtalons would have been nice to try and ground a flyrant and then pop out and take it down with the grav gun bikers.

To all: Remember this was a trial list the SM player was playing and he did say he was his first time so mistakes/headscratching decisions are to be expected. Everyone is in the same manner when developing list and he was going up against Jy2 afterall so gotta give him props for that as this was certainly going to be no easy match for him

Yea it really helped having three large pieces of are terrain and a BLOS piece to place his bastion in between. Its an awesome tactic but I feel this was fairly ideal. (which I think is good as it proved it can happen)


Still have to reiterate that achilles as terrible in his list. He could have another T-fire and a storm raven for it's price lol.

To be fair though, it's not as if JY2 had tons of practice with the new Tyranids or this particular list either.

The dakkafexes seem to be doing most of the load, compared to the biovores and exocrine.

Another great report there Jim! I really enjoyed the inclusion of the pro-tips in the comments of each turn as it gives aspiring Nid players ideas/advice. I voted for the Marine player to win thinking he would've stayed back and let you come to him getting away from that Bastion. I think he really hurt himself by pressing too far forward allowing you to use the cover from the Venomthropes. Great win though Jim it's good to see good players making good use out of this new codex.

He spent 225 points on a CM, but didn't spring for a harder stick to beat your bugs with? I don't get it...

Besides that, I like the Nid army and I'm looking forward to seeing how it does against other armies.

J2Y really appreciate you getting this game up early. Good report. First off, I'd like to welcome your opponent to Dakka. Hopefully you'lll make more appearances in Jim's future bat reps.

Secondly, I'm now just about sold on splurging the cash for a Nid army. I like the Bastion idea, and I especially appreciated the turn 1 tip.

However, I'm still not sold on the two flyrants. I know they're just about the best units in the Nid list but I just can't shake the feeling that I would need more Synapse creatures in the mid and back field. Even with the Bastion. I'm torn though because Flyrants do a lot of work and earn the points. I just don't think I have sufficient savvy in the movement phase to keep either both flyrants or enough of my other synapse creatures alive.

Great Batrep jy2! love the pro tips haha

I was anticipating seeing your nids in action, loved it! Now i cant wait to see that double FOC match!

I keep saying what I've been saying, Carnifexes are going to be king in this book! This batrep pretty much shows it. I'm pretty sure though that this list is about as good as the Tyranid codex can muster. With that said, it is VERY solid. Also, this is a list that will always be fun to play against, it is not OP in the slightest.

herpguy wrote:
I keep saying what I've been saying, Carnifexes are going to be king in this book! This batrep pretty much shows it. I'm pretty sure though that this list is about as good as the Tyranid codex can muster. With that said, it is VERY solid. Also, this is a list that will always be fun to play against, it is not OP in the slightest.

IDK I think it can be pushed much further. I think a few misplays from the opponent and his pricy frivolous unit choices made Jims list much favorable. I am still hoping he forgot to type in the CM weapon in the list. If not I seriously don't understand spending that much on a chapter master without a fist or hammer.

It's true, I'm sure it could be pushed a bit more, but I'm sure it's still always going to be around this power level.

Yeah I was wondering the same thing. It boggles my mind why he wouldn't at least throw a power axe on him?

POST-GAME THOUGHTS:

Ok, I'm going to address some of the questions in my Post-game Thoughts, especially the ones with regards to why my opponent and/or I did the things we did. For my opponent, I will try to explain why I think he did the things he did.


John's List.
Originally, his list has a drop pod for one of his Rune Priests and more grey hunters. He also had a 2nd TFC (thunderfire), a thunderhammer for his Chapter Master and more biker units. However, he wanted to try out the Land Raider Achilles because he was seriously thinking about bringing it to the LVO tournament. Thus, he had to drop a lot to be able to fit the tank in. With regards to the Chapter Master, I think it was either his hammer or some guns from his bikers or probably the 2+ on his Rune Priest. It appears that he preferred defense and shooting over close-combat killing power.


Why did John advance his unit forwards on Turn 1?
I believe this is due to 3 main reasons. First of all, it was just too tempting for him to try to get First Blood with a Jaws attempt. The exocrine with its AP2 shooting has a huge threat to his army. By trying to take it out, he would have killed 2 birds with 1 stone. First, he would have gotten First Blood. Secondly, he would have eliminated what he probably felt was a huge threat.

Secondly, I think he under-estimated the firepower of my carnifexes and the shooting of my army in general.

Last, I think he also under-estimated the resiliency of my carnifexes when buffed by Shrouding in terrain as well as FNP. He probably figured he could potentially take out the exocrine and perhaps 1, maybe 2 carnies to blunt my counter-attack, especially after firing 8 TFC blasts, 6 gravgun shots, 3 multi-meltas (of which 2 were twin-linked) and a host of rapid-firing twin-linked bolters. Honestly, even I was kind of surprised that none of my carnifexes went down.

In any case, he played the odds. It just didn't work out for him.


Why not go after my flyrants initially?
My flyrants were deployed much further in than my carnifexes. In order to target them (not sure he could even see them behind the bastion), he would have to move his bikers in much closer. That means he will be moving them into the assault threat range of my carnies. I think he was much more concerned with being assaulted by them than being shot by them. Also, if he goes after my flyrants, they will be getting 2+ cover (3+ from the fortification and then +2 because of Shroud). But as soon as the flyrants were out of Shrouding range, he did focus on them. He just didn't have enough firepower to really put them down.


Terrain setup.
So why was there so much terrain in the middle? Honestly, this was John's doing. We actually took turns placing terrain. He placed the first big LOS-blocker (BLOS terrain) near the middle of the table. I then placed the 2nd BLOS terrain in the middle as well. He then connected the 2 pieces of terrain with area terrain. Now why did he do that, thus allowing plenty of cover for my big guys?

Firstly, I don't think he was aware of my strategy with the venomthrope + bastion. I did explain to him what the venomthrope did but sometimes, you just have to experience it in order to understand.

Secondly, he was hoping that the terrain would slow me down, thus giving his bikers more time to shoot. It appears to me that he was more concerned about assault nids rather than shooty nids. It just may be that most tyranid players he has played against before just didn't bring really shooty bugs. In any case, the placement of terrain actually ended up helping me much, much more than hurting me. As he would soon find out, my bugs actually do much more damage with their shooting than with assault.

Keep in mind that not everyone browses the 40K forums on the Internet. Many of the tips/tricks that you may find obvious because you saw it online isn't necessarily obvious to the average gamer.


Staying back to shoot at my army.
This actually isn't a very viable option for marines. That is because his army is mainly a mid-range shooting army. With the exception of the thunderfires, most of his guns need to be within 24" to function. That means if he wants to shoot at me, then I can shoot back at him as well. Even more so with 2 instances of Onslaught in my army. Yeah he could have waited to for me to move out of range of the bastion, but then guess what? I will get the alpha-strike on him with the 42" range of my flyrants. That's 24 TL-S6 shots that can take a big chunk out of his army and that could also potentially net me First Blood as well. And while this is happening, he will be getting more and more out-of-position with regards to the objectives and my monsters will be getting closer and closer to contesting range of his objectives.

Also, by backing up his army, he is also backing up his psychic defense. This would basically give my army more room and space, and thus more freedom, to cast my psychic powers unimpeded. Any ways you look at it, it's going to be a tough fight for him. We will either be trading shots or he backs up, waiting for me to move up, and give me the alpha-strike on his army with my flyrants. All this time, he would be moving his army more and more out of position.


Why double flyrants?
IMO, flyrants are the best HQ in the Tyranid codex. What sets them apart?

1. Mobility. They are the most resilient, mobile unit in the Tyranid army. Mobility is such a huge factor in the game but yet, ironically, most players still do not realize that. I've said it before and I'll say it again....YOU CAN'T BEAT A GOOD ARMY IF YOUR ARMY DOESN'T HAVE MOBILITY.

2. Threat range. Because of their mobility, the flyrant has actually got a huge threat range. That is VERY important in the strategy of Positional Dominance, or board control. If you can't threaten your opponent, then you cannot control where he goes. To threaten him, you need mobility and that is what the flyrant gives you.

3. Force-multipliers. Where is in the army can you get mobile synapse? Where else in the army can you get force-multipliers in the form of 2 psychic powers? Where else in the army that will give you the flexibility to outflank one of your units other than genestealers? I can't stress enough how much of a difference a good force-multiplier is for an army. I would take a force-multiplier unit over a beatstick any day. In the case of Tyranids, you get to have your cake and eat it too. The flyrant is probably one of the best force-multipliers as well as one of the best offensive units in the army as well.

4. Anti-air. Along with the hive crones, flyrants are one of the most reliable anti-air solutions for the bugs. However, unlike the hive crone, the flyrant is just as good against ground targets as they are against air targets.

5. Flexibility and consistency. Other HQ's are usually somewhat specialized. For example, the Deathleaper may good against armies that rely particularly on a single character, but suffers against a wide assortment of armies, including fearless ones, armies with a lot of fire power, mechanized armies, etc. The Swarmlord is a great force-multiplier unit as well as a scary beatstick. However, he can do almost nothing against air targets (i.e. FMC-spam, flyer-spam) or armies with high firepower that can easily take him out. Flyrants are flexible enough to be good against any and all armies. You throw almost any army against them and they can deal with it. They are also a consistent threat to all armies.


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Ok, now for the part that everyone is probably waiting for, my review of the Tyranid units.


Flyrants: A. They were a consistent threat in this game and their mobility was the main reason why I was able to keep up with the much faster bikes. The fact that they didn't die was a pleasant bonus. Doling out FNP and Onslaught to my other units was just icing on the cake.

Venomthrope: A. Excellent! They are the reason that none of my big buns died this game. The combination of the Venomthrope in a bastion is a must-buy for all Tyranid players.

Zoanthrope: B. Solid! His job was to provide synapse and he did it well with Dominion. He was the only unit in the game that my opponent was able to kill.

Tervigon: B+. Great unit. This guy is the true anchor to the army. He was a beacon of synapse to my backfield units, give out FNP like candy on a Sunday and created almost 25+ gants without running out.

Termagants: B. They did what they had to do, which was to survive and score.

Biovores: B-. Their performance was a little disappointing this game, but that is really not their fault. The White Scars just don't fear the biovore due to T5 units and the fact that bikes can't be pinned. Biovores would have probably shined against any other army but this one.

Exocrine: B-. He was actually a little disappointing this game. While he did help to finish off the biker RP, he only killed less than a handful of bikers, though that is partially because of their 4+ jink saves. In any case, the threat of his presence to keep the bikers away was probably bigger than the threat of his shooting, which was actually kind of lousy.

Dakkafexes: A. Excellent. A huge threat that forced my opponent to play very defensively. They also soaked up a ridiculous amount of firepower. I love the dakkafexes. These guys are a front-runner to make it onto my permanent Tyranid All-star team for Heavy Support slots.

Bastion: A. What can I say? In my early lists, there are only 5 must-haves in my standard Tyranid list. The first 2 are dual flyrants. Slots #3 & #4 are 1 zoanthrope and 1 venomthrope. The bastion is the 5th auto-include unit in my lists. The bastion is such a great force-multiplier piece of terrain for the bugs and just opens up so much tactical flexibility for the army. Plus, in probably 90% of the games, it just makes Synapse issues a non-issue.

MVP: Flyrants. It's actually a very tough choice here between the flyrants and the carnifexes. The fexes were really good and soaked up a huge amount of firepower, but ultimately, I have decided to give the award to my flyrants. The heart of my strategy was Positional Dominance and that couldn't have been achieved without the mobility and the threat of the flyrants and their ability to quickly react to any threats, whether it be stormtalons coming in or bikers trying to flank my army. Plus, their ability to give out Onslaught and FNP like candy was instrumental in helping the carnifexes to survive and to reach some of the enemies with some Tyranid loving.

 jy2 wrote:
POST-GAME THOUGHTS:

Ok, I'm going to address some of the questions in my Post-game Thoughts, especially the ones with regards to why my opponent and/or I did the things we did. For my opponent, I will try to explain why I think he did the things he did.

A couple of points:

1) This report once again shows that an army must have a way to take out targets with cover save. Although in this case the Venomtrope is untargetable inside the bastion, which leads to point nr 2.

For Space Marine to accomplish this, the best way is the Legion. Unfortunately they are more of a suicide team, don't necessarily come in play soon enough and can miss. In short, I don't like them

Next option is to ally in Psykers who get good access to divination. Hello, Tiggy! Also Coteaz could do, but random power generation can be a pain.

2) Must have missed something in the rules, but why does giving Shrouded work from within the Bastion when such powers don't work from within a vehicle? Oversight by GW? No way! My own misinterpretation of the rules?

3) I did not like the army composition to begin with. Not enough Grav and that Achilles was really worthless. Well, all Land Raiders are But the reason for the Achilles was given multiple times.

4) I believe that the new Tyranids, like the old ones, are a bad matchup for elite armies such as Marines.

Naw wrote:

2) Must have missed something in the rules, but why does giving Shrouded work from within the Bastion when such powers don't work from within a vehicle? Oversight by GW? No way! My own misinterpretation of the rules?

That ability would work just fine in a vehicle too (that's why it works from a building). It does not require line of sight and just affects friendly Tyranid models within 6".

Psychic powers by default in 6th edition require LoS unless specified otherwise, and the rulebook states that you can't use fire points for psychic powers (unless they are witchfire), so that's why non-witchfire psychic powers can't be used out of vehicles.

But any other type of ability that doesn't require LoS just measures it's range from the edge of the vehicle/building when the model with that ability is inside a vehicle/building.

Thanks, don't have the codex so could not check. Sounds like another inconsistency introduced by GW. Good for Tyranids, bad for everyone else (- Tau/Eldar)

I'm going to run 4 biker squads, three with gravs and one with melta plus 3 separate MM attack bikes from now on just to tackle buildings.

Are you playing by a house rule where Fast Attack vehicles become Denial units in The Scouring? Because if not that Stormtalon couldn't have contested that objective even if it did get close enough.

Good report, I dislike the whole Venomthrope in a Bastion gimmick, but I can't deny it's effectiveness.