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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I like to play the game the way it is, rules, codices, force orgs, etc. I dislike changing the game with house rules. Anyone else feel this way?
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






i dont mind them so long as I know beforehand what i'm getting into.
As we have seen here though, it can cause confusion when you start to interact with players outside of your small gaming group that uses the house rules. It is easy to forget that the actual rulebook says something other than what your used to and have it bite you in the rear in a tournament or cause an argument.

clively wrote:
"EVIL INC" - hardly. More like "REASONABLE GOOD GUY INC". (side note: exalted)

Seems a few of you have not read this... http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp 
   
Made in us
Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm





Riverside CA

 EVIL INC wrote:
i dont mind them so long as I know beforehand what i'm getting into.
As we have seen here though, it can cause confusion when you start to interact with players outside of your small gaming group that uses the house rules. It is easy to forget that the actual rulebook says something other than what your used to and have it bite you in the rear in a tournament or cause an argument.

And capies are made avalible to all who want them. This is a big thing for us.

Space Wolf Player Since 1989
My First Impression Threads:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727226.page;jsessionid=3BCA26863DCC17CF82F647B2839DA6E5

I am a Furry that plays with little Toy Soldiers; if you are taking me too seriously I am not the only one with Issues.

IEGA Web Site”: http://www.meetup.com/IEGA-InlandEmpireGamersAssociation/ 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I mean, sure my daemons don't have eternal warrior anymore, but I would much rather play them the way they're written and I'm happy playing with them now, than just house rule in stuff like eternal warrior.
   
Made in us
Bounding Black Templar Assault Marine




You either love them or hate them.

A lot of people do not like deviating from standardized or official rules, which is fine.

This becomes a problem when the people that absolutely must 'play by the book' also vocally criticize or complain incessantly about the rules, which is extremely common on dakka/other social outlets for the hobby.

Should we have to fix GW's rules for them? No, probably not- but it is your choice to do so, and for many people (myself included) a very enjoyable experience.

A group of my friends have been working together for a good 2-3 months now on slowly tweaking the balance and game mechanics into what is ultimately an infinitely more enjoyable and tactical experience while staying true to the core game concepts and not deviating too far from what makes 40k/40k.

In many cases there are very simple tweaks that can be made to solve a lot of problems with this game, and quite honestly why anyone would willingly refuse to at least try it (unless they have no outlet to do so) is mind boggling to me as a hobbyist with a passion for the game.

To each their own ultimately.
   
Made in gb
Raging Ravener




Maidstone, Kent

The only house rule we have is that my flyrant moves as if he has a jump-pack and doesn't use the flier rules.

That's simply because none of our group own or want to use fliers.

More than 7pts, less than 7000...just
4000+ 2500 2000+
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Boggy79 wrote:
The only house rule we have is that my flyrant moves as if he has a jump-pack and doesn't use the flier rules.

That's simply because none of our group own or want to use fliers.


See, this bothers me. Flyers are part of 6th edition people need to embrace it.
   
Made in us
Bounding Black Templar Assault Marine




Django_Unchained wrote:
Boggy79 wrote:
The only house rule we have is that my flyrant moves as if he has a jump-pack and doesn't use the flier rules.

That's simply because none of our group own or want to use fliers.


See, this bothers me. Flyers are part of 6th edition people need to embrace it.


I agree- the problem with Fliers has always been the disparity with reliable ways to deal with them among individual codex releases. The concept is very fun and having different types of units that behave differently/fulfill different roles only further expands the capabilities of the game.

Our house rule change to fliers was to simply increase their minimum movement distance to 24" from 18"- this way they are still very useful, but cannot turn 90' every turn and fly in circles as easily- in some situations you will have to fly off the board or be out of LOS to be effective.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




XenosTerminus wrote:
Django_Unchained wrote:
Boggy79 wrote:
The only house rule we have is that my flyrant moves as if he has a jump-pack and doesn't use the flier rules.

That's simply because none of our group own or want to use fliers.


See, this bothers me. Flyers are part of 6th edition people need to embrace it.


I agree- the problem with Fliers has always been the disparity with reliable ways to deal with them among individual codex releases. The concept is very fun and having different types of units that behave differently/fulfill different roles only further expands the capabilities of the game.

Our house rule change to fliers was to simply increase their minimum movement distance to 24" from 18"- this way they are still very useful, but cannot turn 90' every turn and fly in circles as easily- in some situations you will have to fly off the board or be out of LOS to be effective.


The only overpowered game breaking flyers in the game i.e.(FMC,Heldrakes,vendetta) get around this, thanks to hover.
   
Made in us
Bounding Black Templar Assault Marine




Right, but Hover isn't unbalanced in most cases as you can then shoot at it/assault it normally.

Back on topic though- the beauty of house ruling/balancing is that, if done correctly, solves most of the issues people have with GW's ruleset. It's hard to describe just how enjoyable the game is when these problems have been cleaned up.

It's just a shame GW didn't do this for us.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




XenosTerminus wrote:
Right, but Hover isn't unbalanced in most cases as you can then shoot at it/assault it normally.

Back on topic though- the beauty of house ruling/balancing is that, if done correctly, solves most of the issues people have with GW's ruleset. It's hard to describe just how enjoyable the game is when these problems have been cleaned up.

It's just a shame GW didn't do this for us.


I just like to play the game the way it was written. I'm not a game designer, therefore I am not going to tell them how to develop, just like they don't tell me how to be an Electrical Engineer.
   
Made in nz
Disguised Speculo





Django_Unchained wrote:
Boggy79 wrote:
The only house rule we have is that my flyrant moves as if he has a jump-pack and doesn't use the flier rules.

That's simply because none of our group own or want to use fliers.


See, this bothers me. Flyers are part of 6th edition people need to embrace it.


We don't have to embrace anything. Its not like when buying a rulebook and some models, we sign some contract agreeing to play with the RAW for all eternity.

Different people want different things from the hobby.

GW has gakky rules, and if there weren't people around here as keen on house rules as I am, I'd have sold my models long ago
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




House rules don't travel well. Everyone ends up playing a different game, and no one can compare results. That's why I hate it.
   
Made in us
Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm





Riverside CA

Martel732 wrote:
House rules don't travel well. Everyone ends up playing a different game, and no one can compare results. That's why I hate it.

That is correct, we had that problem with one of our old DMs [with a 4" binder of house rules] and when we decided to run a RAW Campain we gave up after a few games beouse every time somthing happend we had a few players constantly going "What do you mean that was a hose rule".
The best way to do house rules is a small number of them, make them avalible for everyone [hard coppy preferd] and make sure everyone knows they are house rules.
My group has there own that we are using.

Spoiler:
IEGA WH40k House Rules
Warlord Traits: You can choose one of two, but must choose before you roll.
>You choose what Trait Type you are rolling on and can Re-Roll if you get something that is useless to your army. Like Acute Senses and you are Playing Space Wolves.
>Roll one Die and then choose what Table you are going to use.

FOC Modification: This is an optional Rule, we really don’t enforce self it, but we encourage its use.
HQ: 1-2
Troop: 2-6
Elite: 1-3
Fast Attack: 1-3
Heavy Support: 1-3
Fortifications: 0-1
Lord of War: 0-1 [Let others know you are using this one in advance.]
Double FOC: We just ask that you let the other player you will be using it in advance.
Allies: We just ask that you let the other player you will be using them in advance.
Flyers: We just ask that you let the other player you will be using any in advance.

Army Specific Rules:
Codex Imperial Guard:
>Marbo: Save Becomes an Invulnerable Save.
>Ogryn: Gain Rending
>Rough Riders: May replace their Hunting Lances for a Second Las Pistol.
Codex Orks:
>Burner Boys: Can choose to make their Flamers either Power Weapons or Flamers during the Assault Phase. Must be declared in the Overwatch Phase.
Codex Space Marines
>Salamanders: Tactical Squads and Scout Squads may take A Heavy Flamer in place of a Heavy Bolter. Attack Bike can replace their Multi-Melta with a Heavy Flamer.
Codex Space Wolves:
>Rune Priest: The Rune Priest may make his Runic Weapons an Axe/Lance/Maul/Sword
>Wolf Priest: The Wolf Priest may make his Crozius an Axe/Lance/Maul/Sword


We realy don't see the need to do much more.

Space Wolf Player Since 1989
My First Impression Threads:
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I am a Furry that plays with little Toy Soldiers; if you are taking me too seriously I am not the only one with Issues.

IEGA Web Site”: http://www.meetup.com/IEGA-InlandEmpireGamersAssociation/ 
   
Made in nz
Heroic Senior Officer




New Zealand

I would not be gaming and nor would my friends without house rules. The freedom you have with table top gaming is what brought me to the game and still keeps me here.
   
Made in pl
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine





My gaming group attempts to stay as close to the official rules as possible given our relative lack of experience. The only thing I recall we specifically "house-ruled" is that my Characters won't die in case of a Spawn/Daemon Prince roll on the Chaos Boon table, even though I don't have either of those. I've yet to even roll such a result, though, so it's very minor.

The offical rules aren't exactly balanced, but in a friendly, semi-competitive environment that doesn't matter that much. Once we all get a much better grasp of the mechanics, we might introduce some "fixes", but for the time being we're completely fine playing the official rules.

Drukhari - 4.7k
Space Marines - 3.1k
Chaos Space Marines - 2.9k
Harlequins - 0.9k
 
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Ultramarine Devastator




Massachusetts

I think introducing house rules to a game such as 40; its just fine. GW has laid the ground work for a great game, but often has a knack of leaving units behind and not giving things the proper support. If you wanted to propose a house rule to get models off your shelf and onto the table, that's awesome. Why bother owning models you don't ever play because they aren't the bestchoice? Make a house rule or two and they are seeing some action.

That's the beauty of table top gaming. Its our game, its our models. We all pay a lot if money to play this game and be in this hobby. We own it. As owning it, make it your own. Take the core rules and expand them. Try it. It might just be fun.

Overwhelm the enemy with an unrelenting onslaught of the hive mind.  
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






My group is pretty good for this kind of stuff, we for the most part follow the written rules, but if we hit a gray area we'll make a group ruling.

4500
 
   
Made in jp
Cosmic Joe





I love houserules.



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I don't hate them if it's meant to fix a bad rule such as the Dark Angels speeder guy being unable to be the armies warlord.

Other house rules like dice that roll off the table don't count or similar things in that vein are perfectly fine with me too.
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!




Castro Valley, CA

I guess at my FLGS we have a house rule of just throwing the terrain onto the board instead of doing it how the BRB says to do it. We mainly do this just to save time and be a little thematic to our battles. And on page 8 in the BRB they have a little text box talking about "the spirit of the game" that basically says that house ruling is encouraged.

DS:90S-G++MB--I--Pw40k12+D+A++/aWD-R++T(Ot)DM+
"It is said remorse is the pain of sin. We feel no remorse."

You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
<small>Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.</small>

You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what I create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
 
   
Made in us
Using Inks and Washes




St. George, Utah

Django_Unchained wrote:


I just like to play the game the way it was written. I'm not a game designer, therefore I am not going to tell them how to develop, just like they don't tell me how to be an Electrical Engineer.
I am not a game designer.

What I am is a game player, and I am not going to let poorly functioning, poorly written, awfully worded, broken/unfun/unfair rules get in the way of me having fun. I've played lots and lots and lots and lots of games before in my life, and can tell when something is blatantly unfun to play.

You know what's kind of funny to me is it seems the way a lot of the BRB was written in all of the little asides taken, the game designers encourage people to experiment with their own rules and house campaigns and what not yet lots of people are unwilling to play around with ways to make the game more enjoyable because "that's not 40k."

I honestly think the best thing that could ever happen to WH40k is for the IP to somehow go public domain. It'll never happen in our lifetimes because it's worth too much, but it feels to me the spirit of the hobby as it was initially conceived was very build it yourself and tell us why it fits the universe. Looking at old-school orks and how people literally built tanks out of flower pots and scrap metal, or how the original official landspeeder of Warhammer 40k was a freakin' deodorant stick? That stuff still gets my imagination flowing and turns me into a little kid again.

All rules for all games are just guidelines. Warhammer 40k should be a playground for imagination and fun rather than a prison for it.
   
Made in gb
Raging Ravener




Maidstone, Kent

Django_Unchained wrote:
XenosTerminus wrote:
Django_Unchained wrote:
Boggy79 wrote:
The only house rule we have is that my flyrant moves as if he has a jump-pack and doesn't use the flier rules.

That's simply because none of our group own or want to use fliers.


See, this bothers me. Flyers are part of 6th edition people need to embrace it.


I agree- the problem with Fliers has always been the disparity with reliable ways to deal with them among individual codex releases. The concept is very fun and having different types of units that behave differently/fulfill different roles only further expands the capabilities of the game.

Our house rule change to fliers was to simply increase their minimum movement distance to 24" from 18"- this way they are still very useful, but cannot turn 90' every turn and fly in circles as easily- in some situations you will have to fly off the board or be out of LOS to be effective.


The only overpowered game breaking flyers in the game i.e.(FMC,Heldrakes,vendetta) get around this, thanks to hover.


Sorry let me clarify a little. I haven't got anything against the flying rules. I think they do add a different dimension to the game. Most of my group, myself included, dropped out of the game midway through 4th Ed due to life taking over. New babies, mortgages and redundancies to deal with meant no time to fit in 40k. We missed the launch of most flyer models and now although most of us are back playing again in 6th we can't spend the money we used to on the hobby, especially considering the price rises.

I'm the only 'Nid player so I'm the only one who has anything that uses the flyer rules. We made the decision so that I didn't get too much of an advantage with my flyrants because I know that most of the group can't go out and buy flyers to match. Two picked up the ADL as a cheap way of fitting in Skyfire but that's all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/18 12:26:15


More than 7pts, less than 7000...just
4000+ 2500 2000+
 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







Django_Unchained wrote:
I just like to play the game the way it was written.


So do I.

By the way, the game as it is written specifically allows house rules. Page 8, top left box.

The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. 
   
Made in jp
Cosmic Joe





 lord_blackfang wrote:
Django_Unchained wrote:
I just like to play the game the way it was written.


So do I.

By the way, the game as it is written specifically allows house rules. Page 8, top left box.

Oh, shnap!



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in es
Morphing Obliterator




Elsewhere

Django_Unchained wrote:

I just like to play the game the way it was written. I'm not a game designer, therefore I am not going to tell them how to develop, just like they don't tell me how to be an Electrical Engineer.

Isn´t it the other way around?

The designers have claimed, over and over, that this is not a fixed set of rules. You are supposed to try new stuff all the time. For instance, page 108 in the Rulebook (Army List entry) claims that " players are free to either adapt the army lists or use their own system as they wish." Have you seen official events or White Dwarf battle reports? They change the rules all the time. They do not even use the same number of points for both armies.

The game is intended to bolster creativity and imagination. It is a social game where you talk with your friends to adapt the rules, with the sole objective of getting fun. You are telling them that you know better, that a game design should be "closed" instead of all the crazy stuff 40k has.

In my opinion, you are missing important sections of the game. You will never play against the Lost and the Damned, the Chaos Legions or the Genestealer Cult. You will never find out how awesome Mandrakes, Pyrovores and Mutilators can look on the battlefield, and how fun they are to play once they are fixed. You will never play one of the thousand different custom-made missions you can find on the Internet, some of them quite cool.

Django_Unchained wrote:
I mean, sure my daemons don't have eternal warrior anymore, but I would much rather play them the way they're written and I'm happy playing with them now, than just house rule in stuff like eternal warrior.

Most House Rules are born of three things:
1) People willing to try new things because they find them fun.
2) People playing custom made campaigns and adding rules to create a distinctive feeling.
3) People fixing a broken rule, typically a unit.

The rule you say is none of the above, it reeks of Power-Gaming, the ancient enemy of House-Ruling. Power-Gaming wants to Win, House-Ruling wants to Have Fun. They are like Good and Evil. Power-Gaming (which is Evil) often hides behind the face of House-Ruling (Good), talking about house-ruling something because it will be fun, while its only goal is gaining advantages over other players.

The corruptive power of Power-Gaming cannot be overestimated. Many good house-rulers have fallen, deluding themselves, trying to fix their favorite units when they are not broken at all. Which brings shame to all house-rulers.
Django_Unchained wrote:
Boggy79 wrote:
The only house rule we have is that my flyrant moves as if he has a jump-pack and doesn't use the flier rules.

That's simply because none of our group own or want to use fliers.


See, this bothers me. Flyers are part of 6th edition people need to embrace it.

Why? If people do not like flyers, why should they be forced to play with them? The rules do not say so, quite the contrary indeed.

Many clubs did not allow flyers, because they saw them as broken, or because they break the sense of scale. Others fixed them using house-rules. That´s good. People had lots of fun. Not all people enjoy the same things. Not everybody ran to the store to buy Flyers or Fortifications.

Because.... let´s be serious here, Flyers were utterly broken at the beginning of 6th edition. Since the game designers do not care about balance at all, many things are broken and require fixing. The current set of rules is a mess. And it seems that is getting worse week by week. I guess you will see an increase of the people wanting to try house rules or banning units (a far worse solution, in my opinion).


Give them a try.

‘Your warriors will stand down and withdraw, Curze. That is an order, not a request. (…) When this campaign is won, you and I will have words’
Rogal Dorn, just before taking the beating of his life.
from The Dark King, by Graham McNeill.
 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




The game is intended to bolster creativity and imagination. It is a social game where you talk with your friends to adapt the rules, with the sole objective of getting fun. You are telling them that you know better, that a game design should be "closed" instead of all the crazy stuff 40k has.

Not realy , the parts about do what you want and roll if you don't like something are there in their rulebooks , because of two things. First they are there to protect their butts from criticque how bad rules writeres their are . Second boosting sales. The last thing GW wants is someone to buy 1500pts and stop or not buy a second WK , because you already have a two prisms and a WK .
Technicly yes , you can do what ever you want as long your opponent is ok with it . To use Djangos example someone can let a non EE do his cable work for him too . But how offten will that happen ? How offten will an opponent say sure man take the illegal army , am cool with it and even more important how many people will start their army thinking that opponents will let them do what they want ? Examples? This is not the first edition when were are getting the do what you want thing . That jervis guy , has been talking about it in 5th too . So technicly in 5th someone could play tau+eldar too . And as a bonus both armies were not the best thing int he world so people shouldn't have had any problems with that . Why weren't the list building sections of different forums fulls of ally lists ? Because there weren't legal and I doubt that outside of UK anyone plays the game the way GW wants it to be played.
   
Made in fi
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





A while ago we took a house rule between couple of friends.
Known as "last man standing" (or as I like to call it, "the lonely mother****er").

So when only a single model is left in a unit he gets a single wound more, Fearless, Eternal Warrior and FnP special rules.

a) it makes our games more fun!
b) it's not a rule I'd ever mistake as an existing one
c) there's really no harm in it.

If you're modifying the current rules in your favor, it's a bit cheating but if you and your friends create a rule that is equal to everyone and doesn't change the basic setting too much, I'm fine with it.

4000p
1500p

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Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Pure raw is as stupid as attempting pure rai, where rai can be genuinely unknowable in some cases, raw can and is used to justify cheating or idiotic rulings that make no sense whatsoever.

Both together in moderation is what is best
   
Made in fi
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





Makumba wrote:
The game is intended to bolster creativity and imagination. It is a social game where you talk with your friends to adapt the rules, with the sole objective of getting fun. You are telling them that you know better, that a game design should be "closed" instead of all the crazy stuff 40k has.

Technicly yes , you can do what ever you want as long your opponent is ok with it . To use Djangos example someone can let a non EE do his cable work for him too . But how offten will that happen ? How offten will an opponent say sure man take the illegal army , am cool with it and even more important how many people will start their army thinking that opponents will let them do what they want ?


So you're basically saying that "creating your own rules with your friends before playing" is equal to "bringing four Wraithknights in 1500p game against unknown opponent".
Are you sure you know what we are talking about here? Nobody's breaking rules and claiming it as a "house rule" five minutes before playing.

4000p
1500p

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