Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2014/01/19 13:20:16
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Tyranids vs Taudar JY2 vs. Reecius
I agree, I'd like to see a best of three games type thing if not more so we can get a real feel or picture on how the match up is.
And for the purposes of experimentation, perhaps if we do have a rematch, we play with Dawn of War deployment just to contrast how the different deployment types would affect the outcome of the game.
But if anything like that ever happens, a rematch, that is, it'll probably have to wait until after the LVO. I'm sure Reece is already super-busy. Also, now I've got to start preparing for the tournament itself!
Seemed like the Carnifexes didn't do much but get shot (one killed a few jetbikes, I think). That was a little discouraging. In this kind of list, would you take 2 Mawlocs instead next time, or will you sick with the Fexes?
Although it seemed as if the fexes didn't do much, they still had a purpose in this game, and that was to guard the middle. Come anywhere close to there and feel the wrath of my carnies.
But I will be using mawlocs in the future for the sake of experimentation. For now, you're going to see me rotate a lot of units into the army. With the exception of my "Base 5" core units, each Tyranid army I play will probably be vastly different from the last.
BTW, I didn't know that you had a bug army. You can borrow units from Reece's army to challenge him with them.
Yup I do. I even won the Golden Gargant with it up at Kubla Con around 2006 when it was a 2 day GT.
I have not played it since early 4th edition and have been meaning to sell it but I have never gotten around to it. I am missing the models that have come out in 5th edition and 6th (think Hive Guard, Tervigons and Tyrgons) so it needs updating.
Ah, so you played in the Golden age of Nidzilla? Back when dakkafexes were only 114-pts and you could run carnifexes with 2+ T7 5W and flyrants could also get 2+ saves? My, how things have changed ever since.
Red Corsair wrote: Jim played that mission the best he could have, but it really is telling that it took Reece "napping" and second turn and he STILL only had a 1/3 chance to win.
Again, not undermining your play jy2 but just illustrating how much of a disparity there really is between the two.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
y0disisray wrote: This is an example of why I believe winning in 40k is far more reliant on the player than it is with list hammering. Well played Jim I was really rooting for you to pull this one out so that Jeff and Frankie can endlessly torment Reece by never letting him live that down. Excellent batrep I really enjoyed this one!
Yes and no. The better player lost here. Being the better player with an optimized list from a different yet sadly brand new army and all your looking at is a 33% chance on turn 5 or definite defeat? Props to jim for getting as much luster outta that turd as he did but this is just telling of the state of 40k currently.
It really is a bad matchup between bugs and Tau. Honestly, I think this matchup is even worse than the 5th Ed. Tyranids vs Venom-spam. Tau just neutralizes so many of the Tyranid strengths. Flying monsters? Tau is without a doubt perhaps the 2nd best army against flyers (Necron Airforce is #1). Relying on cover from your venomthrope? Not against Tau, you're not. Bringing big monsters? Volume of S7 shooting and Monster Hunter will take care of them and if not, then your army is still stubborn so can screen them out, thus allowing you to shoot some more, or just jump away with your suits. Against Tau, tyranids need every advantage they can get. The deployment type really did me no favors and not getting Catalyst really hurts as well.
Sadly but true, that is how the game has become for many armies against Tau (or Eldar). They (tau/eldar) are just a bad matchup for most armies. Only other armies with just-as-broken mechanics (fast daemons with re-rollable 2++ units, necrons with their troops in flyers, White Scars scouting alpha-strike bikers) can truly compete with Tau and Eldar. Most other armies just cannot. That is just the way it is currently. So yeah, I agree that there definitely is a disparity between armies.
But it isn't all bad. Play with Dawn of War deployment with a central BLOS terrain. Give bugs a few good powers (i.e. a couple of Catalysts) and I guarantee you that they can even give the top-tier armies a challenging game.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dozer Blades wrote: "My list is still a Work-in-progress. At this stage, it is more experimental than anything else and I will be evolving it over time. I will most likely be using mawlocs, trygons and probably outflankers as well in future games."
I think outflanking could make a big difference in this type of deployment—it will give you some disruption units to take the heat off the rest of your army and buy some time to move in to key positions... Just need the right balance.
Very well played!
It sure could. I call my list the fast Tyranid army. The army that you are talking about - the "Disruption" Tyranid army with outflankers, mawlocs deepstriking and flyrants/FMC's closing in for the kill - may just be it's most competitive. Now that is a true Maximum Threat Overload list. I just don't really have the models to run that type of list currently, but make no mistake, that type of Tyranid army means serious business.
Great job playing to the mission. I have a question: Ever thought about dumping one of your Flyrants? I know they are the best unit in the codex, but you could use the points for more ranged Heavy supports like a mawloc, exocrine, or a tyrannofex. And you could fit another Zoanthrope.
The Ravagers seemed disappointing. What about shrikes instead?
Thanks again for all this experimentation.
Sure, I've thought about swapping out 1 flyrant, but that is more for experimental purposes more than anything else. I already know that for a competitive Tyranid army, there really is no other option. Flyrants are a necessity for both their mobility as well as their flexibility to handle any and all types of armies and threats.
The raveners actually did really good in my first game against Triptide Tau. I ran 2x6 and they were responsible for a grea deal of carnage. To me, there is no question that raveners are much, much better than shrikes, especially when I run dual flyrants for my forwards synapse.
But in this game, it was just an impossible situation for them. You are asking them to run fowards and to bear the entire firepower of the Tau army without cover or FNP. No unit, not shrikes nor raveners, would survive that unless I throw everything at them all at once. And if we were playing Dawn of War deployment, I probably would, but in Hammer & Anvil deployment, it would be tantamount to suicide.
Tomb King wrote: Well played JY2 but I have to say i was not a fan of the Taudar build. I think it would be a worse match-up against Eldau. That middle piece of terrain was huge for keeping you alive. I originally questioned you leaving the board with your big guys. Well played though and some decent luck to make it as close as you did.
Yeah, the goal was to keep my flyrants alive. Leaving the board was what I felt was the best tactic for them. With the dakkafexes holding the middle, I was pretty sure that my opponent wouldn't dare come close so I had the luxury of flying them (the flyrants) off the table.
Taudar and Eldar would both have been tough matchups for bugs. I don't really see one as worse than the other. Both are pretty bad.
jifel wrote: Jy2, why go for the Relic turn 5? I feel like it would have been better as a turn 6 gamble and would've kept the Tervigon safe. Instead of playing for a major turn 5 win, you'd be playing for a minor turn 5 win and the chance to get a turn 6 win if you could kill a riptide and grab the relic, or cause a FW squad to fall back with the Biovores. I just think the game couldve gone another turn, even if Taudar had a major advantage at that point.
Edit: Riptides aren't heavy, ignore that part.
Because the game may have ended on 5. If I had waited and the game ended, then I would be kicking myself. You only wait if the chances of you losing on 5 is low, but the chances of me losing on 5 was practically guaranteed because Reece had First Blood and +1 VP for killing my dakkafexes as well.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/19 17:15:30
One is worse then the other because from my experience tyranids still have a serious issue with mech!
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Its hard to comment on bits and pieces of the action, but it looks like a bit of a strategy fail. First going for only a 1 in 3 chance to win, but more important, there is zero pressure on the Tau. Partially a function of the army list, but also over conservative play.
Also, you completely gave away your strategy in turn 4. You should have simply ended your turn by saying Reece was doing well, rather than explain that you were waiting for 5 to try to win it all
2014/01/19 23:47:37
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Tyranids vs Taudar JY2 vs. Reecius
Agreed. Felt like Reece wasn't being aggressive enough, seems he fell into the "deer in the headlights" a lot of people get with hordes and nids in general.
The Zoan and Vemon in the bastion is very smart. I wouldn't be surprised if that became a staple for nid players.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/19 23:48:21
Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
2014/01/19 23:52:07
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Tyranids vs Taudar JY2 vs. Reecius
Fragile wrote: Its hard to comment on bits and pieces of the action, but it looks like a bit of a strategy fail. First going for only a 1 in 3 chance to win, but more important, there is zero pressure on the Tau. Partially a function of the army list, but also over conservative play.
Also, you completely gave away your strategy in turn 4. You should have simply ended your turn by saying Reece was doing well, rather than explain that you were waiting for 5 to try to win it all
Hammer and Anvil is a tough set up for Jim to go up against this TauDar army. What he did was the best he could with what he had. Had he just bum rushed the TauDar the big bugs would get dropped easily while they fell back keeping away from the Nids. After that everything that requires synapse would start breaking and causing all kind of problems. Had it been any of the other stable set ups he could've had more to work with.
-5000 Pts. of Orks
-1750 Pts. of Ravenwing
2014/01/19 23:52:25
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Tyranids vs Taudar JY2 vs. Reecius
Agreed. Felt like Reece wasn't being aggressive enough, seems he fell into the "deer in the headlights" a lot of people get with hordes and nids in general.
The Zoan and Vemon in the bastion is very smart. I wouldn't be surprised if that became a staple for nid players.
I'm holding off on that tactic until after the FAQs.
jajaja "Minimun Threat Underfrozen" that was a getto list.... playing for the 5th ending turn is normally a desperate option onces everything have failed and you have to save the day somehow. But running it as your main pregame start is not an option.
Anyway good match... im looking forward seen you playing a real good list, lets hope it will happen soon.
Flyrants, Tervigons, Harpies, Venonthropes, Zoamthorpes, Termagaunts, Mawlocs And Biovores are our main strength. Complete and minmax them with biomorphs and weapons to make them more flexible.
Basically you must be able to deal a lot of preasure from first turn so no1 ever think on turtling agains you..... many have been wrote about 9 fexes list ... but I havent heard of any1 talking about 9 biovores..... No cover saves and hard pressing from turn 1.
Wanna give it a try?
Cheers from Spain
2014/01/20 03:25:31
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Tyranids vs Taudar JY2 vs. Reecius
There is nothing wrong playing for the game to end on turn 5. Like jy2 said sometimes that is your best odds. Taudar has been around a long time now and is fully distilled. Tyranids are fresh and need some time to fully flesh out. I think they will be competitive. Except for Nidzlilla it's not like they were ever all that popular. I see a lot of potential.
Warning: Spoilers included. Please don't read until after you've viewed the videorep.
Spoiler:
While it may not seem like it, there was actually a lot of strategy involved in this game. There was the overall strategy and then there were a lot of smaller, tactical nuances that defined the game. I shall break down both the larger strategy and some of the smaller, less obvious tactics as well.
Reece's Overall Strategy: What Reece wanted to do was to make me come to him. He wanted me to go all out against him. Hammer & Anvil deployment made this strategy almost a no-brainer. If I advance towards him, he'd get 1 turn of shooting against my flyrants and most likely 2 turns of shooting against any of my other units. That was why he deployed way back - to be able to maximize his shooting.
SMS. Reece took advantage of a huge tactical blunder on my part. I made a huge deployment mistake with my venomthrope. I was thinking that if I deployed it inside the bastion, then Reece could fire his wraithknight at it in order to blow it up. Thus, I deployed my venomthrope outside of it, with the intent of entering it on my Turn 1. However, I had totally forgotten about Ripple-fire SMS from his riptides. Well, 8 TL-cover ignoring shots later and Reece got First Blood from my venomthrope. SMS played a huge role in this battle, letting him kill/hurt stuff that he couldn't see.
The Bait. This was actually a very good tactic, and most lesser-experienced players would fall for it. Basically, he deployed his jetbikes forwards as well as 1 unit of fire warriors to try to bait my flyrants with First Blood as well as a troop choice. Basically, if I had sent my flyrants out to take out his troops, I would most likely have lost them. Overall, the trade-off would have heavily favored Taudar.
Grabbing the Relic. He wanted to get the Relic away from me. As long as it was there, I could have grabbed it at any time. More importantly, I could have grabbed it with my tervgion and then dropped it behind the BLOS terrain (due to the large base
that my tervigon was on) where it would have been impossible for Reece to get it. This was the main reason why he had chosen to go 1st.
What he did was actually quite brilliant. He picked up the Relic with his jetbikes. Then, instead of bringing them backwards, he actually moved them forwards into the ruins. This had the advantage of 1) protecting them from my biovores, who would only hit the top level of ruins with their barrages, 2) protect him from assault, as I cannot assault what I could not see and I can't pass through the ruins because he is blocking them off and 3) he was still trying to bait my flyrants.
Then on his Turn 2, he moved his bikers back and dropped the Relic out in the open. This way, he could shoot down whatever unit tried to pick it up. Meanwhile, he moved his jetbikes back to the safety of his deployment edge.
Monsters to the flanks. He deployed his MC's - the riptides and wraithknights - to the flanks in order to have the best lanes of fire for them and also to minimize the places where I could hide. Now here I would have played it a little differently from Reece. Whereas he normally tended to push his MC's back with the JSJ (jump-shoot-jump) move, I would have actually pushed them forwards instead. This would have 1) given me even less places to hide as his visibility increases the closer he gets and 2) forced me to send a unit towards them, thus providing the rest of his army with some targets to shoot down.
Protecting his objectives on Turn 5. This is where I almost got him. He was thinking that he had the advantage when he killed my carnifexes due to them being a Heavy Support. So if we both end the game with 2 objectives apiece, he would still the the Primary, Big Guns, because he would have been 1-up on me with the carnifex VP. He didn't see until it was almost too late what my tactic was going to be, but he was able to recover on Turn 5 due to 2 huge jump moves (he got an 11" jump move for both his missile drones and the Commander with Iontide). He was then able to block me off from contesting. In addition, he was able to put 3 scoring units - broadside missile drones, fire warriors and windrider jetbike - on that one objective that I would go after. So in order for me to pull off the upset, I had to actually get rid of all 3 scoring units on that objective...that was no easy feat!
Jy2's Overall Strategy: My overall strategy was to gamble for the Turn 5 win. Even a 1/3 chance to win on Turn 5 was better than a head-on battle with Reece's Taudar in Hammer & Anvil deployment and with no Catalyst in my army. Yeah, it was a bad situation and a desperate win, but overall, I felt that it was actually my best chance for a victory.
Positional Dominance. This is my philosophy on how to play objectives-based games. You have to play a little more aggressively and advance onto the objectives first, while keeping your opponent either too pre-occupied to move towards the objectives or somehow keep them away from the objectives. Basically, Positional Dominance is all about board control. Control where your forces will be. Control where you want your opponent to be relative to the objectives or your army. If you can take control, then you have the advantage. You will already be on the objectives whereas your opponent will have to fight to get onto his objectives. Meanwhile, your "forward" elements will be trying to contest his objectives/kill off his troops while your troops are somewhat safe. In short, if you do it properly, it will be his game to lose and your game to win.
For my strategy to work, I needed to do a few things:
Control the middle. Advance towards the middle. Hide and wait. If anything gets close, go after it and kill it. I've got 2 dakkafexes, the raveners, gargoyles and 2 flyrants. I think I should be able to hold the middle quite well. With a threat radius of up to 18-24" with both shooting and assault, holding the middle means that I am actually controlling maybe about 75% of the board. I've actually got the mobility advantage against my opponent and by controlling the majority of the board, it would be easier for me to contest his objectives in the end than it would be for him to contest mine.
Keep him in his deployment zone. Why is this important? Because if he advances, then I would lose the advantage of being able to control the middle. If he advances....if he played a little more aggressively....then he would have forced me to come out of "hiding" much earlier, thus exposing myself to the firepower of his entire army. And if I hadn't, then his MC's would have had a better lane of fire into my forces. So how do I keep him from advancing, especially along the flanks? By feeding him threatening units to keep him honest. If you'd notice, on Turn 1, I advance my raveners and gargoyles. Then on Turn 2, I pulled back my raveners and advance my gargoyles. Then on Turn 3, I advance my raveners again. On Turn 4, I finally advance my dakkafex. Finally on Turn 5, I went all out. If you hadn't noticed, each turn, I was slowly feeding my opponent 1 unit at a time. This was to serve 2 purposes - 1) to keep his units back and 2) to serve as a distraction as well as to draw his firepower. Better for him to shoot at units that I want him to shoot at rather than at units that I don't want him to shoot at. I was also hoping that by feeding him 1 unit at a time, it would mask my true intentions as well as to instill in him a sense of over-confidence...that he could do whatever he wanted to against my army. But the reality of it was, I was trying my best to control the situation by letting him kill what I wanted him to kill and to keep him out of "my territory".
Kill off his mobility. Another main part of my strategy was to kill off his mobility and to take away his ability to contest. Fortunately, for me, Reece only had 2 real units with mobility - his jetbike troops and his farseer so this was actually much easier to do than some of the other armies I've had to face. BTW, it was smart of Reece to turbo-boost his jetbikes back into his deployment zone on Turn 2. If he hadn't of done that, what I would have done was to vector-strike his jetbikes and then fly off the board at the same time. This way, I would have achieved my goal of killing his mobility (as well as 1 scoring unit) and denying him his retaliation against my units as well.
Contest at all costs! Actually, Reece finally realized what I was doing on Turn 4 and made a great recovery on Turn 5 to protect his objective. He actually had it protected in layers, with 3 scoring units on it. He completely ignored the Relic (not that he could get it this turn....his jetbike was still 2-3" away after I shot at them and killed 2 bikers the previous turn with my dakkafex) and just moved everyone to protect the objective. He also got a little lucky with an 11" assault move by his missile drones to then be able to reach his objective. In any case, contesting was now out of the question with all those troops screening it off.
So my only choice was to kill anyone who was claiming the objective. First of all, I moved my tervigon up and then spawned some gants to go grab the Relic. I then did something that Reece just wasn't expecting. He was expecting me to vector-strike his lone biker and then to shoot at one of his units. Instead, I cast Psychic Shriek and then shot at one of his units. Psychic Shriek came through for me big time. It killed his lone biker and also wiped out all but 1 fire warrior. It also killed a couple of missile drones as well. I even had a chance to take out his riptide, who had only 1 or 2 Wounds left, but Reece past that morale test. Then my newly spawned gants on the Relic shot down his last fire warrior. Finally, my biovores fired at his missile-drones and killed 2....and that was just enough to take them out of claiming range. So while I failed to contest his objective, I did something else that was just as effective....I took out all his scoring units around the objective.
After that, it was just up to the Dice Gods.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/01/20 07:27:59
Just beat a tau list with my nids at 1850... even got seized on. Wasnt easy though... had only 1 synapse creature left in the end of it. I killed off all of his troops. Was hammer and anvil relic. 7-1 Nid victory. Still no good solution for buff commander + riptide.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
So cheeky! That was pretty exciting, even though the turns had little visible action. The battle was like Jim described it in an earlier post, a lot of subtle strategy that is easily overlooked. A shame that it all came down to 1D6, although it did make the finish entertaining!
I will...never be a memory
2014/01/20 16:26:30
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Tyranids vs Taudar JY2 vs. Reecius
One is worse then the other because from my experience tyranids still have a serious issue with mech!
Mech isn't as bad as most would think for Tyranids.
However, the problem against Eldau is the firepower. Those serpents put out a lot of dakka that will give bugs problems, especially if they are spammed. So the problem isn't so much taking out the tanks as it is having to traverse the field and take it in the chin for 1 or maybe 2 rounds of shooting from their tanks.
On the bright side, at least they don't have skyfire.
mortetvie wrote: I think this game really highlights the shortcomings of Tyranids in terms of a total lack of ranged firepower and a lack of speed/resiliency. I understand Nids are not supposed to be a shooty army like Tau but you can only do so much when you face the proposition of just removing buckets of your army due to decent quantities of cover ignoring firepower.
When Tyranids are forced to withstand what Tau and Eldar can dish out, the Hivemind might as well go back home and watch "As the imperium turns" on daytime TV...
I think the only way to do it is have enough units that pose an immediate treat like maybe 40 infiltrating stealers followed by fasting units like gargoyles/shrikes/flyrants and a continual stream of things to drown your opponent in wounds... Though, like I said, I think Tau and Eldar have the firepower to do enough damage each turn to destroy the Nids :(.
If the "ignores cover" rule wasn't so prevalent in 40kATM the nid codex would be fine IMO (aside from some minor issues but meh).
IMO, they do lack ranged firepower. They have speed in spades (at least my build does). However, against Tau, the main problem is that they lack resiliency. That is why Catalyst is such an important power for them. If only they'd make Catalyst the Primaris (but have it affect only 1 unit), Tyranids would have been much, much better off. But alas, sigh.....
The best way for bugs to deal with Tau and some builds of Eldar would be a Maximum Threat Overload strategy. That build will give them problems and it is something I will try out in the future. But first, I need to get myself 3 tyranid flyers....
ansacs wrote: That was an extremely well played game. You really deserved that 1 or 2 Jy2.
Thanks to both of you for a very nice tactical game. Definitely worth watching.
Reece sorry to say I was definitely hoping Jy2 would come out 100 usd richer.
Jy2 how much do you think your more optimized list would have helped in this match?
I think a more optimized list could definitely give Reece's Tau a run for their money. Such a list could potentially put 7-8 very fast TMC's right at his doorsteps on Turn 2! And in the process, they'll probably take out some broadsides as well.
doktor_g wrote: This is the reason that I like 40k. Friends competing hard against each other and a victor emerging who acknowledges a lucky win. One of the more exciting reports I've seen for how little happened.
You can sum it up as "Hubris vs Cunning"
Really enjoyed it. Thanks both. See you in Vegas.
Thanks!
Be sure to introduce yourself if you see me. Always cool to put a face to the internet persona.
djn wrote: Great game and great advert for what Los blocking terrain brings to the game. The problem is unless tournaments are clear upfront about what you can expect from their terrain taking nids is a risk against the big hitters imo.
You can always ask the TO what the typical terrain setup would be, but yeah, lack of terrain is always a risk. Don't rely on the TO's. Bring your own terrain. That's why I recommend the bastion.
Man... I hate doing it, as it feels so "unfluffy", but the more days and batreps we are into the new 'Nid codex, the more it looks like "Bastion" is going to be an auto-include.
If they somehow FAQ that we can't take fortifications.... the next few years are going to be long ones for me. :-p
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted)
2014/01/20 18:33:07
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Tyranids vs Taudar JY2 vs. Reecius
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Man... I hate doing it, as it feels so "unfluffy", but the more days and batreps we are into the new 'Nid codex, the more it looks like "Bastion" is going to be an auto-include.
If they somehow FAQ that we can't take fortifications.... the next few years are going to be long ones for me. :-p
That is a 125pt minimum inclusion. I have had success without it but can see the benefits to having it.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Man... I hate doing it, as it feels so "unfluffy", but the more days and batreps we are into the new 'Nid codex, the more it looks like "Bastion" is going to be an auto-include.
If they somehow FAQ that we can't take fortifications.... the next few years are going to be long ones for me. :-p
We could have always taken fortifications before so I don't see why they would FAQ that against us. The only thing we couldn't do before was to fire gun emplacements like the quad-gun. That, they may FAQ against us again, though I really don't see the reasoning behind why they should do so.
In any case, nids can still run without fortifications like the bastion. However, by including the bastion, it just makes everything so much easier for the bugs.
Fluffwise, you can justify it as the tyranids have overrun and infested a bastion. Maybe they are using it as a spawning point for some new species of bugs. Maybe they are using it as an experimental lab or maybe they are just using it as a storehouse of genetic material to be consumed later on by a different type of tyranid bug.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Man... I hate doing it, as it feels so "unfluffy", but the more days and batreps we are into the new 'Nid codex, the more it looks like "Bastion" is going to be an auto-include.
If they somehow FAQ that we can't take fortifications.... the next few years are going to be long ones for me. :-p
That is a 125pt minimum inclusion. I have had success without it but can see the benefits to having it.
It should be a minimum 75-pt inclusion. You don't have to upgrade it with anything, though the Comms Relay would be excellent for certain Tyranid builds.
Fragile wrote: Its hard to comment on bits and pieces of the action, but it looks like a bit of a strategy fail. First going for only a 1 in 3 chance to win, but more important, there is zero pressure on the Tau. Partially a function of the army list, but also over conservative play.
Also, you completely gave away your strategy in turn 4. You should have simply ended your turn by saying Reece was doing well, rather than explain that you were waiting for 5 to try to win it all
So what other tactics would you have recommended I do? To just commit seppuka by throwing my bugs into the sword that is Tau shooting? Given the list that I used and the conditions as set forth in this game, do you see alternative strategies would have given me a better chance to win?
Keep in mind that the video was taken at the end of each turn. Before then, Reece already figured out what I was planning to do so I really didn't give anything away that he didn't know. Rather, I thought it would have been better to share with the audience my strategy and tactics for "educational" purposes.
Sandokann wrote: jajaja "Minimun Threat Underfrozen" that was a getto list.... playing for the 5th ending turn is normally a desperate option onces everything have failed and you have to save the day somehow. But running it as your main pregame start is not an option.
Anyway good match... im looking forward seen you playing a real good list, lets hope it will happen soon.
Flyrants, Tervigons, Harpies, Venonthropes, Zoamthorpes, Termagaunts, Mawlocs And Biovores are our main strength. Complete and minmax them with biomorphs and weapons to make them more flexible.
Basically you must be able to deal a lot of preasure from first turn so no1 ever think on turtling agains you..... many have been wrote about 9 fexes list ... but I havent heard of any1 talking about 9 biovores..... No cover saves and hard pressing from turn 1.
Wanna give it a try?
Cheers from Spain
That's easier said than done when you're playing against Tau on the long table edge, especially with my army which, although fast, still has to traverse the board to reach my opponent.
Tomb King wrote: Just beat a tau list with my nids at 1850... even got seized on. Wasnt easy though... had only 1 synapse creature left in the end of it. I killed off all of his troops. Was hammer and anvil relic. 7-1 Nid victory. Still no good solution for buff commander + riptide.
So what did you run? Tau is definitely a very tough matchup for bugs. Still winnable, but perhaps the hardest matchup for tyranids currently.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/01/20 18:56:19
I think we are about to witness the latest GW money grab. I am thinking that the units that vanished and all viable builds will be contingent on the latest data slates. Basically the codexes from now on are 50 + enter amount here to get the units it needs.
I mean, hey having trouble justifying deathleaper as an HQ and wishing you had Ymgarls still? Just buy vanguard assault and both issues vanish!
I wonder why their health as a company is in question as of late? hmmmmmm.....
I wouldn't mind if they had the Doom and mycetic spores in a dataslate. Yes, I'd probably fall for that money-grabbing scheme of theirs if only they'd include some of those units.
And while they're at it, why not put Biomancy in a Tyranid dataslate as well....
jy2 wrote: I wouldn't mind if they had the Doom and mycetic spores in a dataslate. Yes, I'd probably fall for that money-grabbing scheme of theirs if only they'd include some of those units.
And while they're at it, why not put Biomancy in a Tyranid dataslate as well....
And continue store closings to make that Hasbro buyout happen all the quicker!
Cause if gamers aren't disenfranchised enough already, pinching them with a hidden price hike to play their armies should do the trick!
BTW, I didn't know that you had a bug army. You can borrow units from Reece's army to challenge him with them.
Yup I do. I even won the Golden Gargant with it up at Kubla Con around 2006 when it was a 2 day GT.
I have not played it since early 4th edition and have been meaning to sell it but I have never gotten around to it. I am missing the models that have come out in 5th edition and 6th (think Hive Guard, Tervigons and Tyrgons) so it needs updating.
Ah, so you played in the Golden age of Nidzilla? Back when dakkafexes were only 114-pts and you could run carnifexes with 2+ T7 5W and flyrants could also get 2+ saves? My, how things have changed ever since.
Exactly! The 4th edition Nidzilla list was so good that it was no fun playing it, and no one had fun playing against it so I retired it.
2014/01/20 21:50:55
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Tyranids vs Taudar JY2 vs. Reecius
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
-5000 Pts. of Orks
-1750 Pts. of Ravenwing 
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted) 
