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Scorcerer on bike with psyker level 3, MoT, and burning brand vs. Scorcerer in Termie armor, psyker level 3 and MoT.

The Termie one is more survivable but the bike one is more mobile and has the Burning Brand, which one would you choose to lead your 1K sons army and why?

Bike and Brand, pretend the Brand is a Tzeentch power that is actually good.

Bike and brand, because you can synergise him with a big unit of spawn.

I should add that the Termie Sorcerer would be in a LR with (4) other Termies and the Bike Sorcerer would join a unit with (3) chaos bikers. I don't know if that makes a difference on your decision......

A sorcerer on a bike is more likely to be able to use maledictions and blessings effectively.

A sorcerer in a transport can only bless himself and/or the transport and can't use maledictions at all until the turn after he disembarks.

What about the Disc instead of the bike? You loose the TL boltgun and gain an attack bonus and increased movement.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
What about the Disc instead of the bike? You loose the TL boltgun and gain an attack bonus and increased movement.

I agree that the disc is an option, but I'm making a fairly fluffy list and the disc just wouldn't/couldn't join with the biker squad. besides it's 10 points more and I would lose the soulblaze option for the combi-bolters. Good suggestion though!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is the list that I'm working on now:

HQ Chaos Sorcerer
psyker level 3
MoT
Burning Brand
Chaos Bike

(5) Chaos Terminators
Heavy flamer
icon of flame
MoT

Troop (5) Thousand sons
icon of flame
Rhino
Havok launcher
warpflame gargoyles

Troop (5) Thousand sons
icon of flame
Rhino
Havok launcher
warpflame gargoyles

Heavy Forgefiend.

Heavy Vindicator tank
havok launcher
warpflame gargoyles

Heavy Predator tank
Autocannon
HB sponsons
warpflame gargoyles

Fast (3) Chaos bikers
Flamer
Icon of flame
MoT

Fast Heldrake
Baleflamer

1497 points

The HQ and the bikers rush forward destroying stuff, the three Heavy units sit back and shoot stuff, the Termies deep strike in behind enemy lines wrecking face, the Heldrake does what it pleases, and the rhinos take objectives. I decided to go with thousand sons for shooting because of their AP3 bolters, they can rapid fire AND assault, and they have a 3+ 4++ save. Every vehicle has warpflame gargoyles for soulblaze and every unit has the Icon of flame for soulblaze. (3) Havok launchers for some vehicle killy goodness. I really think that this much soulblaze is 1. going to annoy my opponents to death 2. going to make my opponent take ALOT more saving throws 3. going to win it's points back every turn.

Bike Sorc, otherwise you're limiting possibilities with the psychic abilities

Why would you take MoT on a sorc after all? For a 3++?
I take sorcs unmarked cause an extra roll on a useful table is priceless. Also, you can join him to a marked unit which will come handy.

What combos i tried:

-Sorc with 8 marines [1 melta, MoS, Icon of Excess] + champ [lc, combi-melta] in a landraider.[dirge caster, dozer]. I tried going telepathy - which is alwayz decent. Invisibility or puppet mastery, or hallucination are really great. Also, domination is great vs lower ld enemies. That's a rather nice setup but sorc starts being offensive with his powers rather late in the game - and other time just spams invisibility on a landraider. Though, best thing you could possibly put in a landraider to accompany your indep are plague marines.

-Sorc with jump pack accompanied by raptors with MoN. The idea was to roll biomancy to get fnp to make Plague Raptors. Even though, i din't suckseed in rolling fnp, iron arm, warp speed and enfeeble were very decent - he became very frightening in mellee. And could start oppressing the enemy with enfeeble earlier than riding a transport. However, 6 ed made jump troops way worse than bikers - and that's unfortunate. I really like raptors. But a MoN raptor costs exactly like a biker marine and biker gets: same toughness, better mobility, hammer of wrath (let's be realistic, it's a very rare occasion when you manage to use that fleet and HoW perk on a jumppack), tl-bolters, relentless - for the same price. The only thing you don't get is deepstrike.

-Sorc with a bike accompanied by bikers. Slaanesh bikers with fnp mark and sorc heavy on telepathy, and MoN bikers with sorc heavy on biomancy. Both are viable but the single possibility of making t6 bikers with fnp...is priceless. They are SO good - i stopped using them in fun games. Cause they can win games singlehandedly. Not much stuff can deal with t6 fnp 3+ 4+ jink bikers. They're as tough as nob bikers and even more imprievous to small-gunz fire.

-Sorc on bikes accompanied by MoN spawns. The most obvious setup. And one of the best. Not nearly as expensive as nurgle bikers - they're so cheezy i stopped running them also. Only if i want to oppress some annoying eldar or tau

 koooaei wrote:
Why would you take MoT on a sorc after all? For a 3++?

To unlock Thousand Sons as Troops.

Which is folly in itself, of course, but there you go.

If it wasn't for the fluff reasons, I'd tell you that it is best to drop it.


But I'd always say go on a bike with a burning brand. Termies are too slow and bikes are T5.

Thanks for all of the responses. I've decided to put the Sorcerer on a bike with the Burning Brand. I know that this isn't the "optimal" CSM list, but that wasn't what I was going for here. I want to do a mono-Tzeentch list with 1K sons and this is the best way to do that.

If I were going for the optimal list, I would have used Nurgle plague marines, they seem to be the most effective troops in the book.

You poor... poor fool. Good luck my fellow Tzeentchian! I hope he looks upon you with favor!

Yeah Nurgle plagues, cultists, and zombies are the most effective troops in our book. Noise Marines aren't as good but are still pretty usable without wanting to hit yourself in the face.

Personally I like to go with the Disc (+1 T and +1 A), Burning Brand, and Force Sword/Lightning Claws (sometimes I consider one of the other Force weapon options). Complete and utter MEQ shredder which is especially useful in my MEQ heavy meta.

I have been testing out the dimensional key on him for gaks and giggles.

ugh....im rooting for you but i really dislike your lists

running 5 man tsons squads makes me shiver

running like 6 different squads is a bad idea. You need redundancy with such aggressive units that tsons need to support them.

I understand you want something fluffy but you WILL get tired of losing if you take lists like this.

I vote for the biker

Disc of Tzeentch all day everyday. Lets you tag things with psychic powers then jetbike move in the assault phase back to somewhere reasonable so you don't get assaulted and murdered.

I really hope this doesn't come off as a rant or disrespectful in any way, but have you guys ever just played the game to have fun? When me and my group play, the sole purpose of playing is to have a good time, not to find every way to kick my opponents teeth in. I get the fact that my list isn't the be all end all of CSM lists, it isn't suppose to be. I love the background and fluff of the 1K sons, the blue and gold paint scheme, and the fluffy special rules that this army has (soulblaze, inv saves, inferno bolts).

The point of this thread is to get your opinion on a bike vs. Termie armor for my Sorcerer. I understand that sometimes you can't help yourself but to suggest major changes to the list (deamon allies, swapping out units, etc.), but remember, it's not your list.

I would appreciate if my fellow dakkanites could keep the negative comments and poo pooing of the 1K sons to themselves. I already know that the CSM dex is sub-par, that plague marines are better, and that using Deamon allies is the cat's meow, but this is a F U N list that would be fun to play and to build. I don't plan on attending any major tourneys or GTs in the near future.

That being said, feel free to comment on my list, just try to keep the comments in a positive direction. Thanks.

^Exalted.

Too bad you're on the other side of the country. You seem like the kind of guy I'd actually bother to break my models back out to play against.

That said, I still say disc of Tzeentch. You can still join units of bikers if you're on one, and I personally really like that if he's alone, I can zip him close enough to witchfire enemies and then use the bike assault move to then jet back to a safe distance so he doesn't get assaulted. Plus, building your own disc is a lot of fun!

I also like and play TSons.
Though I would recommend larger units, scorc on a disk is most fluffy, but a bike will suffice.

 SRSFACE wrote:
^Exalted.

Too bad you're on the other side of the country. You seem like the kind of guy I'd actually bother to break my models back out to play against.

That said, I still say disc of Tzeentch. You can still join units of bikers if you're on one, and I personally really like that if he's alone, I can zip him close enough to witchfire enemies and then use the bike assault move to then jet back to a safe distance so he doesn't get assaulted. Plus, building your own disc is a lot of fun!

Thanks I would love a game with you, but unfortunately this army is in the very beginning stages of development. lol Last night I finished painting my first unit, a 1K sons Vindicator tank. I should have my 1K sons Forgefiend completed by next week. Then I'll have to wait until I receive my tax return to buy the rest of the models that I'll need.

It's going to be a slow process, but worth it in the end.

To original poster: creds for making a fluffy, fun to play (against) list. I would advice bike as it adds mobility and range to the MoT spells. Biker sorcerer with Doombolt seems rather lethal.

 King Pariah wrote:
Personally I like to go with the Disc (+1 T and +1 A), Burning Brand, and Force Sword/Lightning Claws (sometimes I consider one of the other Force weapon options). Complete and utter MEQ shredder which is especially useful in my MEQ heavy meta.

Hi,

While that would make a good MEQ shredder, I'm afraid there are some mistakes there.

1. The Disc does not give your +1T, only +1A (and changes type to Jetbike). You have to choose between disc (+1A) or bike (+1T).
2, If "Force Sword/Lightning Claws" refers to taking two melee weapons, then you cannot also take the Burning brand. As the Burning brand replaces one weapon. And the disc, in contrast with the bike, does not come with any weapon.

Yea, I've decided to put the Sorcerer on a bike and join him with the bike squad. If I remove the Icons and the warpflame gargoyles from the list, I'll have 80 points to spend elsewhere, where would the most effective place to spend those points be?

 sub-zero wrote:
I really hope this doesn't come off as a rant or disrespectful in any way, but have you guys ever just played the game to have fun? When me and my group play, the sole purpose of playing is to have a good time, not to find every way to kick my opponents teeth in. I get the fact that my list isn't the be all end all of CSM lists, it isn't suppose to be. I love the background and fluff of the 1K sons, the blue and gold paint scheme, and the fluffy special rules that this army has (soulblaze, inv saves, inferno bolts).

The point of this thread is to get your opinion on a bike vs. Termie armor for my Sorcerer. I understand that sometimes you can't help yourself but to suggest major changes to the list (deamon allies, swapping out units, etc.), but remember, it's not your list.

I would appreciate if my fellow dakkanites could keep the negative comments and poo pooing of the 1K sons to themselves. I already know that the CSM dex is sub-par, that plague marines are better, and that using Deamon allies is the cat's meow, but this is a F U N list that would be fun to play and to build. I don't plan on attending any major tourneys or GTs in the near future.

That being said, feel free to comment on my list, just try to keep the comments in a positive direction. Thanks.

You gotta remember that everyone's definition of fun is different. For myself, I lean towards competitive lists and I find the players that do so as well. Winning isn't the goal, a closely contested game where both players bring their best and try to win is what I enjoy the most. Some players would rather push models around on the table and don't care whether they win or lose. But, most people don't want to lose every single time they play. That's not fun for me or for most other people. So when you ask about tactics in a tactics forum without giving any parameters of what types of games you play or what changes you will consider, you're going to get advice on how to maximize your list to best effect. It doesn't make people WAAC or wrong, they are just giving advice on how to tackle a problem.

That being said, sorcerer on the bike is the way to go. He can start effecting the game turn one and can almost alw ays get where he needs to in order to effect the battlefield. A sorcerer cooped up in a landraider isn't going to have an effect until turn 3 most of the time.

 koooaei wrote:

-Sorc with a bike accompanied by bikers. Slaanesh bikers with fnp mark and sorc heavy on telepathy, and MoN bikers with sorc heavy on biomancy. Both are viable but the single possibility of making t6 bikers with fnp...is priceless. They are SO good - i stopped using them in fun games. Cause they can win games singlehandedly. Not much stuff can deal with t6 fnp 3+ 4+ jink bikers. They're as tough as nob bikers and even more imprervious to small-gunz fire.

Thank you for calling my attention to Nurgle bikers with the sorc. I've been running Slaanesh bikers with a Slaanesh sorcerer for FNP, and I actually like the slaanesh powers plus a couple of telepathy rolls to make some effective spell slinging combos. I'm not normally a fan of nurgle because of the aesthetic that usually goes along with it, and I don't like SNP daemons so I forget to look at it when I make lists. T6 bikers with full biomancy powers seems like an extremely good combo for my meta.