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Hey there, ive had my eye on infinity for a while now. After playing some 40k kill team games, and having a blast. I decided I want to try a game that really focuses on that skirmish level. I heard someone mention that tournament play with infinity is really well handled compared to what im use to with 40k. So I started looking through the models.

I have found that each faction tends to have a few models I just really love. So I am not overly picky about which faction I play. I have noticed that most of the models I really like tend to be very lightly armored. (hassassins, custodiers, ninja, etc). Is it possible to create a list based primarily around them? Or does a list need to have a balance of light, medium, heavy etc.

Fluff wise, in 40k I am a huge sisters player. Thematically they are the army that I enjoy the most. And it seems that in Infinity the "religious" army is panoceania. So I spent most my time looking at their model range. Their Knightly orders are cool. And I do really like their orc troops.

My other army in 40k is Necrons. And I am a huge ghost in the shell fan. So ALEPH seem like a really great army. I also think they have the coolest looking "TAG", I get a total ZoE feel from it. I suppose with how cheap the hobby is compared to other games I might just end up with 2 armies. But I am kind of looking for a place to start.

I have started to ramble a bit so ill just sum up my questions.
How is the tournament scene.
What army would you recommend for a sisters/necrons player
Do lists need balance or will a list of 10 ninjas do as well as one with an assortment of troops.
What point value do people recommend learning the game at (and what level are tournaments usually played at)5

An Assasin list, for example, would use mainly Light and Medium Infantry, with some Skirmishers. Assassins have weak HI choices. It's entirely possible to do a mixed list, or a list that focuses on one type of troops in pretty much every army, though.

Tournaments are supported by the company - there is the ITS system with missions designed especially for it, extra limited edition prizes and a global ranking.

It seems you already chose your armies yourself, I'd say go with what you like the looks of as there are no useless models or factions in Infinity. (bar Imperial Agents in Yu Jing).

A 10 Ninjas list will be very poor due to the fact how orders are calculated. Plus, the AVA (Availability of the troops, i.e how many you can field) for Ninjas is 4 in the Japanese Sectorial Army, so you would not be able to field as many as 10. The msot important resource in Infinity are Orders and Ninjas, if in Hidden Deployment, do not provide their order to the order pool.

IMO a new player should start like this:

3 light dudes +1 heavy without worrying about points (i.e 3 Fusiliers and a whichever Knight, for example)
150 pts
200
250
300 (Standard turnament format).

Hassassin based list is perfectly doable with only Hassassin models. That's why they made the Hassassin Bahram army list!

Thanks for the responses. Good to know about the Hassassin list.

However last night I think I found the army for me. Nomads. They have a few reverend models that just seem like a perfect fit for what I am looking for. And I really like the iguana. I also like all the different wild/tom/hell cats.

However when I was looking through the rules it seems that reverend moiras and custodiers are both "elite troops" and they have an AVA of 2.

Now im not completely sure on this, but from looking over the free rules on their site it seems I can't have more that number of elite troops? So I would only be able to take 1 reverend moiras and 1 custodiers? Or 2 of either?

It seems kind of odd that they sell a pack of 4 moiras but you could only use half the pack.

I was looking at a list of a few moiras a custodier an iguana, and a couple wild cats lead by kusanagi. But it doesn't look like that is possible.

On the tournament note, that is great news that the company is so involved in the scene. Really makes me want to support the game.

If I can't make the reverend army, I suppose I might check out the hassassin list. They really have some great looking models.

The AVA listed is for the unit not the unit type. So in a generic Nomad list you should be able to take 2 each of moiras and custodiers. But the AVA for them in the nomad sectorial lists should be increased. So in a bakunin sectorial list moiras are AVA 4 (hence the box set). But the downside of that is that bakunin don't have access to the iguana. :(

There is a bit of difference between the vanilla faction (all the units available) and a sectorial of that faction (restricted units, but with differing AVAs, and sometimes access to units from other factions.)

Use the army builder from the Infinity site to play around with ideas. It is a .swf thing though, and takes a while to load. I let it loadonce, and just saved the file from my browser cache. Works offline too, when done that way. There is also this http://anyplace.it/ia/ia.html for army building.

The rules from the site are in a bit of disarray. try these, a re-edit of the rules http://www.file-upload.net/download-8494633/Unofficial-Infinity-re-edit-with-bookmarks-v2.3.zip.html. I don't know if the link still works. It does not have the paradiso rules either. But it it easier to read than the official stuff.

The army lists available for download from the Infinity site also contain the lists for Sectorials too. You'll have to download them all too.

Seems like a lot of stuff I need are in rules all over the place. So if I want to play a nomad army, I need the main rules, the army and weapon lists, paradiso, and human sphere? ill definitely take a look at that link and see if I can get it all organized. As this is a little confusing.

Would love to get a rulebook or pdf that just has all nomad stuff in one place so I didn't have to sort through all the other factions to find what is relevant to me.

Thanks again for the help all. I really appreciate it.

You might like the wiki then. And/or the army builder.

 IcedAnimals wrote:
Seems like a lot of stuff I need are in rules all over the place. So if I want to play a nomad army, I need the main rules, the army and weapon lists, paradiso, and human sphere? ill definitely take a look at that link and see if I can get it all organized. As this is a little confusing.

Would love to get a rulebook or pdf that just has all nomad stuff in one place so I didn't have to sort through all the other factions to find what is relevant to me.

Thanks again for the help all. I really appreciate it.

You don't need to buy any of that.

All of the weapon and unit profiles, army lists, game rules, as well as templates and counters are freely dlownloadable from the Infinity website. Those downloads contain the same rules information as are in the books. The only reason to buy the Core rulebook or Human Sphere is if you want a nice, shiny hardcover book with art and fluff.

Campaign Paradiso is a bit different in that the campaign rules are not freely downloadable. Everything else from Campaign Paradiso is already free, such as unit and weapon profiles, but the campaign system is only in the hardcover book.

The infinity wiki and various army builders (Infinity Army, Aleph Toolbox, Infinity Ops) make finding rules and making lists easier, and the wiki has Q&A for some more cmplicated rules.

Thanks for the wiki link, that is quite helpful. And yeah, i do really like the army builder. That alone just saved me 4 tabs i had open haha.

So how strict are the point values for games. For example. I just made a list that I am pretty happy with. 2 Moiras, 1 Custodier, Kisaragi, 2 wild cats and an iguana. It sits at 6 SWC, and 301 points. Will that be allowed in a 300 point game at say a tournament or would the TO require I tweak the list further to get below 300.

 IcedAnimals wrote:
Thanks for the wiki link, that is quite helpful. And yeah, i do really like the army builder. That alone just saved me 4 tabs i had open haha.

So how strict are the point values for games. For example. I just made a list that I am pretty happy with. 2 Moiras, 1 Custodier, Kisaragi, 2 wild cats and an iguana. It sits at 6 SWC, and 301 points. Will that be allowed in a 300 point game at say a tournament or would the TO require I tweak the list further to get below 300.

Never over even by a point. This is a game where 4 points can get a extra Order, and 1 point can change a unit to a MINELAYER (big bonus over non-MINELAYER).

Like any other type of similar game, it will probably be OK with friends, not OK in official tournaments and the like.

You'll probably find there is a (slightly less desirable!) weapon load-out that you can choose to knock a point off or two...

A little confusing... Lol, master of the understatement Yeah the rules are scattered. That's why the re-edit (hope the link works) is so useful.

And the wiki, which I see someone else has mentioned. Best thing.

There is also a browser app (for chrome) called Aleph's Toolbox. It includes the wiki. And An App for Android, but it's a bit wonky.

And don't forget the instructional videos. They are really useful. All those links are on the wiki home page. And there are links to useful videos here too http://www.beastsofwar.com/?cat=99&tag=content-getting-started

And note that you can download the Quick Starter Rules from them too ( on the page linked above.) You may want to grab those, proxy some minis, set up a small table-- use any old things for terrain at first-- and play a few times, or walk yourself through a few turns. Much of what I found hard to understand at first became quite clear once I started playing a game.

Most Importantly, enjoy.

Btw, Have you seen the Nomads?

They have Religious troops and most of their Religious troops are female

Seems very appropriate for a Sisters player

Yeah I am liking the look of the nomad "sisters". In talking to a friend I mentioned the game and he said that it is his favorite table top game. So when I told him I was interested in learning it he has decided to show me the basics.

Ill be proxying some of my sisters of battle to represent a "reverend" list. Am I reading this correctly in that all the Reverends have "ODD: Optical Disruptor" So any shooting attacks my opponent tries will be at -6 BS? On top of any other penalties for say cover and range?

 IcedAnimals wrote:
Yeah I am liking the look of the nomad "sisters". In talking to a friend I mentioned the game and he said that it is his favorite table top game. So when I told him I was interested in learning it he has decided to show me the basics.

Ill be proxying some of my sisters of battle to represent a "reverend" list. Am I reading this correctly in that all the Reverends have "ODD: Optical Disruptor" So any shooting attacks my opponent tries will be at -6 BS? On top of any other penalties for say cover and range?

Yes, that and their MULTI Rifle are the reasons why they are so expensive for their stats
So you need to use them intelligently, since they are not a throw away troop. However they are very well geared

The story behind the Reverend is actually pretty awesome too
They were originally one of PanO Religions, and they made some of the most insanely high tech gear around. However when they began developing this insanely powerful AI, Aleph condemned them and told PanO (and I think YuJing) to kill them. Since Aleph controls the majority of the human nations, they had only 1 possible place to escape to, the only place that is outside of Aleph's control... Nomads!

One of the many, MANY reason why Nomads hate Aleph.
but Don't worry, as humans acting independent of Aleph sphere of control, Aleph hates Nomads too

Sounds like I chose the perfect 2 armies then if their back stories intermingle so well

Also another couple questions. So in the rules it states that a way to win the game is to cause your opponents army to "disband" by suffering a retreat! effect. So basically if you kill 60% of your opponents army you win the game? However religious troops can ignore retreat!. So on top of multi rifles and disruptors I also can stay in the game longer (giving me a better chance to make my opponent be the one who breaks and runs)?

Also on the note of proxying. How important is "WYSIWYG" for Infinity? For example I notice one of the Moira models in the 4 pack is only wielding her shock weapon and no gun. So since her multi rifle isn't present on the model how does that work? She could have all kinds of guns AND that shock weapon. From a HMG to a Sniper rifle. So in a tournament setting is that model a legal model to represent say a Moira with HMG and Shock weapon?

And finally. I will be playing a 200 point game as my first jump into things. My list is 3 Moiras with multi rifles and Shock weapons (One being my LT so its harder to my opponent to guess who my LT is) 1 moira with a HMG, 1 Custodiers multi rifle and HD+ and a minesweeper salyut letting my hacker work from multiple angles. I figure the baggage skill isn't that big a deal since the rest of my army are religious troops so retreat isn't an issue.

For this first game I don't think ill mess around with linking. I want to get a solid feel for things first. But what do people think of that list. Is there anything really obvious that it is missing or that is just bad that I just don't see due to my lack of experience?

Retreat makes your units run away, once they run off the board is when you lose (tho Scenario play this is different), so even if you take out 60% of a non religious army. They will merely begin running away, but they don't lose auto. (Scenario play this is different)

Religious troops never run, unless you want them to

WYSIWYG is very low importance, proxying is fairly common, especially proxying for weapons. Just don't run 2 of the exact same models, with same painting, with different weapons. IE make it obvious they are different

Moiras are very strong but they are kinda of like... The knife, and they need other tools, I suggest a Zero or 2 (or a Prowler) and a Sin Eater for the defense. Salyut are not very important but the weapon called "Marker" which shoots a "Repeater" is extremely useful, you might need to read up on the rules to how this works tho. I do not have time to explain it all now.

Also I suggest using Moderators to increase your amount of Orders

Here's a working link to the fan re-edit on my site, note that there isn't a version that contains the extra rules from Campaign: Paradiso: http://wargamingtrader.com/infinity-rules

Yes, definitely leave links alone for now, and even a 200pt list - start smaller with say three light infantry and one more elite model on each side. Then try your 200pt game!

Also, go to http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/downloads/ > Rules>English and download one of the Quick Start Rules PDFs, that includes slightly simplified rules and army lists for your first game or two.

So I played a game. And even though I had a few really confusing moments I really enjoyed the over all experience. However I am having one issue. I can't seem to find any of the models in any local shops around here. And even when I talk to the guys about ordering in some, it looks like most the infinity stuff is "sold out" as they put it.

Are there any good online retailers? I know a lot of those tend to give decent discounts if you buy in bulk and I might be buying quite a bit in one go. I want to have 2 armies with decent sized collections to pick from so I can demo games and attempt to get more people in the area interested.

Keep in mind im in the US. So id like to avoid any sites with international shipping fees.

I have ordered from thewarstore.com, but they just raised prices. I hear good things about Atomicempire.com, but I have not ordered from them. at least not yet.

About the Retreat! rule. Yes, but there are plenty of other ways to play Infinity other than "deathmatch". Check out the scenarios available here http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/downloads/, under scenarios, and also under the heading Infinity Tournament System. There is an unofficial scenario system many people use called YAMS (Yet Another Mission System) and you can find that here http://wargamingtrader.com/yams .

Glad to hear you enjoyed the game.

http://www.thewarstore.com
http://www.texastoysoldieronline.com/
and
https://www.miniaturemarket.com/

Mostly comes down to the shipping differences, if you don't care about package tracking and you are patient, miniature market comes out to be the cheapest of the 3, also you can find some good deals from time to time on ebay.

thanks for the links. miniature market seems to use UPS with free shipping on any order over 100 and its discount is already pretty good so ill be going with them. 250$ for my first order.

Quick rules question. Lets say a model enters my ZC but is not within LoS. I get an ARO. Am I allowed to change facing so that I have LoS and then shoot with the same ARO? Or would I have to use my ARO to change facing and then wait for him to issue another order before I can shoot?

The model can react with a normal ARO, here's the bit from the rule

If, during the execution of an Order, the acting figure enters the LoF or ZC of a new enemy miniature lacking LoF or ZC when the Order was declared, that enemy model receives an ARO immediately and can react to the Order being undertaken.

We always play that if the miniature survives the first round of being shot in the back it can turn to face, although not sure if that is an official rule or not!

 IcedAnimals wrote:
thanks for the links. miniature market seems to use UPS with free shipping on any order over 100 and its discount is already pretty good so ill be going with them. 250$ for my first order.

Quick rules question. Lets say a model enters my ZC but is not within LoS. I get an ARO. Am I allowed to change facing so that I have LoS and then shoot with the same ARO? Or would I have to use my ARO to change facing and then wait for him to issue another order before I can shoot?

Unfortunately no. You only get one skill for an ARO, so you'd have to turn, then wait until he spends another order to shoot. If you are hit but not knocked unconscious you can change facing, but that happens after all the actions are resolved.

Here is the wiki link http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Change_Facing

Basically you change facing and wait for the next order for another ARO, but remember, you only need to change facing enough to bring the enemy into LoF. You do NOT need to turn completely around. Sometimes if you have and enemy in your front, and one comes up from behind, you want to change face to put them both in LoF.

Am I on you guys ignore list or something?

I've bolded the key bit of IcedAnimals' question

 IcedAnimals wrote:
thanks for the links. miniature market seems to use UPS with free shipping on any order over 100 and its discount is already pretty good so ill be going with them. 250$ for my first order.

Quick rules question. Lets say a model enters my ZC but is not within LoS. I get an ARO. Am I allowed to change facing so that I have LoS and then shoot with the same ARO? Or would I have to use my ARO to change facing and then wait for him to issue another order before I can shoot?

If you enter someone's ZoC from behind, they get to react as though they had LoS.

Exception to this is if the attacker in the ZoC has Martial Arts: L4 'Empty Mind', means the defender can't turn, unless they in turn have Sixth Sense L2 (although TBH this isn't likely to come up very often!)

They're not ignoring you, you appear to be saying the reacting model can shoot etc. which is wrong. EDIT - still not sure if I'm reading your post right. :(

If the model doesn't have LoF because it's facing the wrong way then it doesn't have LoF.

The only possible AROs are Change Facing or skills that don't require LoF, for example Hacking, Sepsitor or shooting with a Jammer.

Yea, pretty much this.

Also, mind that SSL2 allows you to react to ATTACKS performed against you out of your LOF. Movement is not an attack.