Top Five Things that take the fun out of 6th:

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**Kosake**

vipoid wrote:

quotequotequote

I'm more surprised that it doesn't get the option "throw 3 carnifexes at the challenger" - that one has basis in the fluff.

Yeah, I'd love that

Really, losing morale bonus or whatever because the hive tyrant doesn't bother slicing open that one particular sarge with a chainsword doesn't seem to make sense for nids. Or necrons, for that matter.

**vipoid**

techsoldaten wrote:
Hull points. I just hate hull points. Everything in 6th edition would be better without them.

I am saying this as a CSM player.

My feelings on Hull Points are somewhat mixed.

I think that sort of system could work, and a lot of vehicles were too durable in 5th... but it was implemented badly. For a start, did we really need vehicles with just 2 HPs? I mean, aren't those vehicles already soft in terms of being AV10? Why did they need an extra layer of fragility? In fact, did we even need varying HPs for vehicles - I thought that was the whole point of varying AV?

Similarly, 4 HPs seems pretty low for vehicles like the land raider and monolith. Aren't both of those already of dubious cost effectiveness, without also giving them poor long-term survivability?

Kosake wrote:
Yeah, I'd love that Really, losing morale bonus or whatever because the hive tyrant doesn't bother slicing open that one particular sarge with a chainsword doesn't seem to make sense for nids. Or necrons, for that matter.

I'd like DE to get a rule along the lines of:

(to challenger) "Yes, of course I'll accept your challenge."
(to squad) "The minute he turns his back, you know what to do."

All unengaged squad members can fire their weapons at the enemy challenger in their initiative step.

**StarTrotter**

Oh please no. I already have a rule that forces me to fight in CC and its not like I can deny challenges in CC on my MCs either.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
To be honest challenges just really don't work. IG? You really want to solo that? Along with that, its like why is the daemon prince so obsessed with killing the... sergeant that declared a challenge? Why not laugh, stomp, sneer and kill more. CSM? Why are they all crazy and want to challenge? We aren't just individuals opting for individual glory. We are the slaves of chaos, the unbound warriors, the lost, the renegade, the damned. Why does the sorcerer declare a challenge? Why does the sergeant declare a challenge instead of the big bad? Honestly I'd rather it be some special rule. Slaanesh duelists, some Khornate champions being honor bound (but not all! No cultist declaring challenge against swarmy), the SC of DE (the incubi guy), incubi, maybe striking scorpions, assassin unit? Etc.

**GoliothOnline**

Generating Psyker powers is too random.

Currently, my GUO gets Iron Arm pretty much every game. I don't particularly have a problem with this, but the fact he usually ends up with Life Leech or Warp Speed, is pretty disgusting.

If for each additional Mastery level there was an increase in points, (usually from what I'm seeing its 25 points per mastery level) If it were increased to 35, and then 45 for instance. Randomly generating the tables is too boring. Winning because of luck already favors the Dice. We shouldnt have to win / lose to pure luck when we out maneuver and out play our opponents. Choosing your Abilities, and paying according to them should exist to that extent. Hell, we could always say a Psykers Mastery Level is definite (Not having to pay for lvl 3s for instance) But have to pay for the Powers instead.

Make Iron Arm cost 50 Points.
Make Warp Speed cost 30
Make Life Leech and the likes 25

**WrentheFaceless**

1. Rolling for powers
2. Flimsiness of Vehicles in general
3. D weapons
4. Allies
5. Overabundance of Low AP weapons

**Breng77**

GoliothOnline wrote:
Generating Psyker powers is too random.

Currently, my GUO gets Iron Arm pretty much every game. I don't particularly have a problem with this, but the fact he usually ends up with Life Leech or Warp Speed, is pretty disgusting.

If for each additional Mastery level there was an increase in points, (usually from what I'm seeing its 25 points per mastery level) If it were increased to 35, and then 45 for instance. Randomly generating the tables is too boring. Winning because of luck already favors the Dice. We shouldnt have to win / lose to pure luck when we out maneuver and out play our opponents. Choosing your Abilities, and paying according to them should exist to that extent. Hell, we could always say a Psykers Mastery Level is definite (Not having to pay for lvl 3s for instance) But have to pay for the Powers instead.

Make Iron Arm cost 50 Points.
Make Warp Speed cost 30
Make Life Leech and the likes 25

The issue is that you would need to cost psychic abilities differently for each model that can get them.

Just take Biomancy for instance

Iron Arm on a MC is amazing...on a librarian or sorcerer...meh its ok...decent if he is in an assaulty unit...worthless if he is sitting back as a buffing character...i.e. not worth 50 points to him.
Warp Speed same deal...great if you are running for combat...meh otherwise
Enfeeble is good on pretty much every model...but probably not 50 points good.
Same with Endurance.

Not saying that random is good...but just that paying for powers is not an easy thing to do.

**buddha**

1. Battle brother allies. Seriously, it cause most of the problems with bad list abuse and is almost always unfluffy. I love allies, but it should just be the 2 lower levels of alliance.
2-5. See above.

**vipoid**

Breng77 wrote:
The issue is that you would need to cost psychic abilities differently for each model that can get them.

Just take Biomancy for instance

Iron Arm on a MC is amazing...on a librarian or sorcerer...meh its ok...decent if he is in an assaulty unit...worthless if he is sitting back as a buffing character...i.e. not worth 50 points to him.
Warp Speed same deal...great if you are running for combat...meh otherwise
Enfeeble is good on pretty much every model...but probably not 50 points good.
Same with Endurance.

That's part of the point though, surely - why did we need to have rulebook psychic powers? It seems it would have been easier to just let each race pick from their own list (can even cost them differently, if necessary).

**Breng77**

I actually like the common powers. I never liked that in old editions where one book got amazing broken powers, and another got absolute garbage. I would rather see the core list and allow psykers to buy powers from there in addition to their own book. It just needs to be priced based on the character Vs just a standard price.

**DarthSpader**

1-5: lists like this.

**GorillaWarfare**

-random psychic powers
-casualty removal (closest first, I prefer to just remove what you want)
-abundance of low ap weapons
-charges <4 inches
-battle brothers

**vipoid**

Breng77 wrote:
I actually like the common powers. I never liked that in old editions where one book got amazing broken powers, and another got absolute garbage.

I honestly see no real difference.

Just in this edition whether or not you get a broken power is determined randomly.

**A GumyBear**

vipoid wrote:
Breng77 wrote:
I actually like the common powers. I never liked that in old editions where one book got amazing broken powers, and another got absolute garbage.

I honestly see no real difference.

Just in this edition whether or not you get a broken power is determined randomly.

And also what tables you get to roll on (ig primaris psyker get garbage for possible brb powers)

**Mr Morden**

I like a lot of it but:

1. Narrative game that does the opposite in important areas like the Ally Matrix - getting the fluff wrong
2. Points errors and unit mistakes/massively OP units - Riptides, Wave Serpents
3. Lack of FAQs / army updates
4. Creeping expansion of Psychic powers - really don't want it like magic in WFB
5. reduction of importance of assault
6. Battle Brothers - not only is it two good, but they got the allies wrong.
7. New models - Centurions are prime culprit
8. Supplemetns that do companies rather than Chapters
9. No full printed Codex for Sisters
10. no Adeptus Mechanicus codex

On ther other hand loads of good stuff
1 Premeasuring
2. Some of the new models - WraithKnight for one
3. Challenges
4. Speed of Codex updates
5. Sisters finally got an update

**Breng77**

vipoid wrote:
Breng77 wrote:
I actually like the common powers. I never liked that in old editions where one book got amazing broken powers, and another got absolute garbage.

I honestly see no real difference.

Just in this edition whether or not you get a broken power is determined randomly.

What I was saying is that I would prefer non-random BRB powers, as well as book powers. Let me point out the difference in a couple way. Compare the last DA codex to say the Space Wolf Codex. DA got 2 powers (3 with a special Character) both of which were meh. Wolves got what 7 powers several of which are completely awesome and one which is arguably broken.

Look at the 6th Ed books take CSM or Daemons with their Codex powers and compair them to say Eldar...complete garbage by comparison (CSM book powers by and large are terrible, Daemons are so so but mostly bad). Having overlap to the book powers allows those books access to some good powers.

Essentially it becomes a scenario where some codices get lots of good stuff...and others get nothing comparatively.

vipoid wrote:

And also what tables you get to roll on (ig primaris psyker get garbage for possible brb powers)

I agree that BRB tables should be more balanced. 3 of the Tables are fairly significantly better than others. But all of the tables (except maybe pyromancy) have some good spells, and if you could purchase those spells they would be more balanced. Divination is lauded because it is consistently good, but even Telekinesis would be decent if you reliably take things like Gate of Infinity.
That said doesn't the Primaris get Biomancy? Which is not horrible? And aren't the powers he gets still better than the IG codex powers he had? Let me put it this way. I've seen players use Primaris psykers with book powers this edition...last edition I never saw them at all.

**A GumyBear**

Sure the ig primaris gets biomancy but about 2 of the powers are useful on him and the others are largely pointless