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Okay, it's another of these threads, but I really wanted you guys opinions on this. So, assuming a Space Marine Codex Battle Company (so Captain, Chaplain, Librarian, Command Squad, 6 Tactical Squad, 2 Assault Squad, 2 Devastator Squads (One is a Devastator Centurion Squad FYI), Dreadnought, and enough Rhinos and Razorbacks to transport the lot of them, plus a Terminator Squad - five man - and full Sternguard, Stormraven, Predator, Whirlwind and Stalker AA tank, with necessary Techmarines) had landed on Earth, with no orbital superiority, versus all of Earth's military might, who comes out on top? Just curious!

Earth, since we can just spam nukes.

Even power armour can only shrug off so many WMDs.

If we can't use WMDs, we'll get roflstomped because 1. We are not particularly fearless and 2. We are so outclassed tech-wise so it's not even funny. It'd surprise me if present day assault rifles even tickled power armour given that Autoguns have trouble doing the same, and they are assault rifles from 38K years in the future.

Or we just spam artillery/airstrikes/whatever, and hope they don't get stomped.

Yeah, I don't give a lot for our odds.

I for one welcome our Space Marine overlords.

So no drop pods?

No Thunderhawk?

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Earth, since we can just spam nukes.

Even power armour can only shrug off so many WMDs.

If we can't use WMDs, we'll get roflstomped because 1. We are not particularly fearless and 2. We are so outclassed tech-wise so it's not even funny. It'd surprise me if present day assault rifles even tickled power armour given that Autoguns have trouble doing the same, and they are assault rifles from 38K years in the future.

Or we just spam artillery/airstrikes/whatever, and hope they don't get stomped.

Yeah, I don't give a lot for our odds.

I for one welcome our Space Marine overlords.

They'd likely take over our nukes and cause the nations of Earth to cripple each other via MAD (although it wouldn't be the bullsh*t apocalypse Hollywood thinks it would be, but nations such as America, Russia, and China would be crippled. They hit our sites, launch our missiles at Russia and China while Hollywood hacking communications and dropping the power grid.

Although it also depends where they land. They're actually probably screwed if they drop in the Mojave for example, but taking drop pods at specific critical locations like they normally do would cripple a nation like America and allow them to knock us out. The only option we really have to counter them is carpet bombing and mass use of missiles, or at worst, nuclear weapons. Which isn't a viable option if they're in a major civilian center like New York or Washington DC. They actually might be more effective if they started in Russia. It gives them a place to hide and launch attacks from, although I'm not familiar with how the Russian military works and whether or not they'd consider bombing their own civilians.

Exactly as above, Earth would get slaughtered without nukes. Genetically engineered warriors don't go down very easily. Our best chance would be either IG style tactics and slaughtering millions of our own people to take down a couple of the Marines or unconditionally surrender and bow before our glorious overlords! All hail the Emprah!

 Crickate wrote:
Exactly as above, Earth would get slaughtered without nukes. Genetically engineered badasses don't go down very easily. Our best chance would be either IG style tactics and slaughtering millions of our own people to take down a couple of the Marines or unconditionally surrender and bow before our glorious overlords! All hail the Emprah!

Ironically, surrendering to loyalists wouldn't be bad at all. Well, depending on the chapter. Although how they perform also depends on the Chapter. For example, the Raven Guard, Iron Hands, and second founding and onward Chapters specializing in tech and stealth would do well. We'd actually probably kill Imperial Fists (albeit at immense losses of civilian life) due to the Fists 'never back down' ideology that wouldn't likely have them retreating from a fight until they started to take losses they couldn't replenish.

Of course, none of this matters if they're FTL marines or other absurdity.

Space Marines without orbital superiority are pretty much useless, they'd fair a little bit better with thunderhawks mind but well, I can't see the marines holding enough ammo to take out all the earths military. They would prove to be a huge problem if ignored, but you could just spam B-52's with so many cruise missiles against very little air defence that the marines would fall eventually, and probably without causing that much damage depending on how fast the earth militarised to the threat.

Also, mass nuking isn't an answer in this discussion as we sort of don't have any other planets to live on as yet.

The only potentially huge problem is the librarian (which isn't a part of a standard astartes company mind) depending on his psychic ability and the terminators at first, assuming they arrive via teleportation (which along with the librarian requires the warp, but lets say they can tap into it) and could well, hit wherever they want, and if that was lets sayyyy the whitehouse. or the pentagon or whatever and the marines could then get a techmarine in then the marines could take control of the US (or any super powers) weapon systems which could very much aid their conquest, considering they could easily nuke the planet and their ermor would protect them from fallout effects.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Space Marines without orbital superiority are pretty much useless, they'd fair a little bit better with thunderhawks mind but well, I can't see the marines holding enough ammo to take out all the earths military. They would prove to be a huge problem if ignored, but you could just spam B-52's with so many cruise missiles against very little air defence that the marines would fall eventually, and probably without causing that much damage depending on how fast the earth militarised to the threat.

Also, mass nuking isn't an answer in this discussion as we sort of don't have any other planets to live on as yet.

The only potentially huge problem is the librarian (which isn't a part of a standard astartes company mind) depending on his psychic ability and the terminators at first, assuming they arrive via teleportation (which along with the librarian requires the warp, but lets say they can tap into it) and could well, hit wherever they want, and if that was lets sayyyy the whitehouse. or the pentagon or whatever and the marines could then get a techmarine in then the marines could take control of the US (or any super powers) weapon systems which could very much aid their conquest, considering they could easily nuke the planet and their ermor would protect them from fallout effects.

Mass nuking is an option, and nukes will never result in the mind-bogglingly stupid Hollywood scenarios- life will not end, and humans will continue to exist, we don't have enough nukes to even threaten the atmosphere (remember, the asteroid that was the final nail in the coffin for non-avian Dinosaurs is estimated to have the power of 100 Teratons of TNT- compared to the kilotons or small megatons of nukes). The problem however is the resulting fallout, which we'd survive, but would be a constant problem that would continue to persist for a long time that would make life miserable.

However, one or two nukes wouldn't be absolutely horrendous for the continued life on this planet, but the Astartes would likely be in civilian centers... and thus astronomical collateral damage would result. And it's entirely possible that they might survive the nukes, as it is possible to normal humans to survive it. You simply need cover.

Also, this still isn't getting into silly high yields. High yield space marines have the FTL reaction times of Spider-Man and can survive exposure to temperatures equal to those of Sun's' Core besides contact with the source of the heat. Nothing we are armed with can kill high yield space marines- we can put down mid yield, but with extreme firepower and immense risk of collateral damage.

well... marines die to normal combat blades if done right, so Im not really buying the whole "guns 38k yers into the future are more powerful then guns now (autoguns to autoguns basically)" if a simple knife/sword can kill them if you hit a weak spot...

also, lasguns/autoguns in 40k are not described as being any more powerful then current small arms (albeit the logistics of las guns are better, and then there is the theoretical "over charge") las/auto guns dont vaporise a guards man into nothing ness, they seem to just put a hole in them similar to conventional arms vs people.

also, 40k artillary and large bore weapons are not necesarily some high tech version of what we have now, sure we dont have plas/las/melta, but things comparable to say, basilisks? yeah, you better believe we have that level of destructive power without nukes.

modern troopers with tanks/artillary/small arms on the a huge scale could fight them off...

or lose horribly,

id say 60% the marines win due to suprise/tech advantage, 40% the humans rally together and over whelm them with #'s and "death by a thousand cuts"

Besides, each Space Marine carries a nuclear reactor on his back. I would not be surprised if radiation would be ineffective against them. Only the heat and kinetic force of a nuke would have any effect. And Ceramite is a pretty badass ceramic, so we don't know if the heat is enough. The kinetic force... It depends. If Indiana Jones can survive the kinetic force in a fridge, then a Marine probably could in his armour.

Earth military forces win easily if the space marines forget to bring their plot armor along for the trip.

One issue with just overwhelming them by number is that we humans are rather cowardly. If you know that you are going to die charging those massive scary mother hubbards you don't feel very tempted to, even if your sergeant threatens to put you in prison for running away.

There are fanatics among us, but they only last so long. Most of us have a strong sense of self-preservation, which includes not charging monsters like Astartes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ma55ter_fett wrote:
Earth military forces win easily if the space marines forget to bring their plot armor along for the trip.

'Fluff I don't like' = 'Plot armour'

Whatever you say, bro.

 Wyzilla wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Space Marines without orbital superiority are pretty much useless, they'd fair a little bit better with thunderhawks mind but well, I can't see the marines holding enough ammo to take out all the earths military. They would prove to be a huge problem if ignored, but you could just spam B-52's with so many cruise missiles against very little air defence that the marines would fall eventually, and probably without causing that much damage depending on how fast the earth militarised to the threat.

Also, mass nuking isn't an answer in this discussion as we sort of don't have any other planets to live on as yet.

The only potentially huge problem is the librarian (which isn't a part of a standard astartes company mind) depending on his psychic ability and the terminators at first, assuming they arrive via teleportation (which along with the librarian requires the warp, but lets say they can tap into it) and could well, hit wherever they want, and if that was lets sayyyy the whitehouse. or the pentagon or whatever and the marines could then get a techmarine in then the marines could take control of the US (or any super powers) weapon systems which could very much aid their conquest, considering they could easily nuke the planet and their ermor would protect them from fallout effects.

Spoiler:

Mass nuking is an option, and nukes will never result in the mind-bogglingly stupid Hollywood scenarios- life will not end, and humans will continue to exist, we don't have enough nukes to even threaten the atmosphere (remember, the asteroid that was the final nail in the coffin for non-avian Dinosaurs is estimated to have the power of 100 Teratons of TNT- compared to the kilotons or small megatons of nukes). The problem however is the resulting fallout, which we'd survive, but would be a constant problem that would continue to persist for a long time that would make life miserable.

However, one or two nukes wouldn't be absolutely horrendous for the continued life on this planet, but the Astartes would likely be in civilian centers... and thus astronomical collateral damage would result. And it's entirely possible that they might survive the nukes, as it is possible to normal humans to survive it. You simply need cover.

Also, this still isn't getting into silly high yields. High yield space marines have the FTL reaction times of Spider-Man and can survive exposure to temperatures equal to those of Sun's' Core besides contact with the source of the heat. Nothing we are armed with can kill high yield space marines- we can put down mid yield, but with extreme firepower and immense risk of collateral damage.

Did you just decide to ignore the part where I said mass nuking? Did you just assume that I meant it catching the world on fire, instead of me talking about nuclear fallout, which can kill off a vast majority of the planet given enough time?

So, instead of being an arrogant know it all, I suggest you read posts properly and ask a question rather than getting on that high horse of yours over a another members post and causing a non argument.

Though, I understand this is hard for certain people on the internet, so I will simplify my statement for you, mass nuking isn't an option as the side effects of it are not worth it.

I do agree one or two nukes wouldn't be such an issue, considering the planet has already experienced this time and time again.

Spamming B-52s isn't much of an option, we have less than 80 remaining in operational service, and most of the remaining few hundred at the boneyard wouldn't be operationally ready in an at-all realistic timeframe.... and I'm pretty sure the Marines have access to AA systems that we have no answer to...

As for mass nuking, you'll have to clarify what constitutes 'mass' nuking. Launching the entire nuclear arsenals of all the global nuclear powers? Yeah, no the fallout would render a good stretch of the globe uninhabitable. But a few dozen, maybe even 100-200? We could survive... we might have an increased incidence of cancer and a lot of collateral deaths... but we'd survive as a species.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:


Did you just decide to ignore the part where I said mass nuking? Did you just assume that I meant it catching the world on fire, instead of me talking about nuclear fallout, which can kill off a vast majority of the planet given enough time?

So, instead of being an arrogant know it all, I suggest you read posts properly and ask a question rather than getting on that high horse of yours over a another members post and causing a non argument.

Though, I understand this is hard for certain people on the internet, so I will simplify my statement for you, mass nuking isn't an option as the side effects of it are not worth it.

I do agree one or two nukes wouldn't be such an issue, considering the planet has already experienced this time and time again.

Nice ad hominem.

Send in the drones.

In nothing short of a Matt Ward wet dream do 100 space marines beat even one of earths armies.

 Ma55ter_fett wrote:
Send in the drones.

In nothing short of a Matt Ward wet dream do 100 space marines beat even one of earths armies.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:


'Fluff I don't like' = 'Plot armour'

Whatever you say, bro.

You've already thrown the plot armour 'argument' once.

As someone else mentioned earlier I do not believe the weaponry in 40k isn't all that much more powerful than what we have now in terms of infantry small arms. We also do not know what exactly these magic space metals exactly are so it'll be difficult to ascertain their resilience towards modern day arms. For example, Leman russ tanks are made out of something called Ferrosteel. This seems to imply that it's a steel-iron alloy which is basically crappier steel. This implies that a Leman Russ battle tank would be out armored by a M1 Abrams and would have comparable firepower since they both fire 100+ mm shells.

Now, are the two cannons comparable? The Battle cannon is described as being able to tear apart infantry and tanks (lol). The M1 Abrams cannon is quite good at penetrating armor though I am not sure if it fullfills the same "Blow crap up" function that the Battle Cannons does well. Again, without knowing what exactly these materials are it's difficult to discern effectiveness. I'm going to say that they are at least in the same ballpark.

I would then judge that a boltgun cannot penetrate the armored hull of a M1 Abrams reliably since it cannot do the same for a Leman Russ tank which has worse metals comprising it. The cannon of the Abrams can also penetrate power armor since the Battle cannon can. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that our AT weaponry can go through power armor reliably. We even have things the Imperium doesn't like Drones and Javelins.

So, what does this all mean? That all we have to do is just blow the feth out of them with as much AT weaponry as we can muster, spam Drones which they cannot meaningfully counter and bombard them with arty fire.

So basically just do what the Imperial Guard does.

Eh, I doubt that a Leman Russ is inferior in resilience to an Abrams.

Well we loose the space battle automatically.

I'm sure there is something in the CA for the conquering of planets that have nuclear stockpiles. The IoM wouldn't want them used at it ruins the planet.

In the unlikely event that ALL of Earth's military prowess was put towards this single task the space marines wouldn't last long at all, While we don't often use our most destructive weaponry because of laws and such in a state of war all kinds of crazy ass weaponry would rain from the sky. We have the Tech for Rail-guns (Maybe not tau equiv. but enough to pen power armour i am sure) and drones as well as those steel rods dropped from space which hit with the force of 100KG of TNT. That kind of Kenetic Impact would Liquefy a Marine, Termie armour or not. The problem with 40k vs real world is that 40k armies simply aren't viable, Battles are won by Soldiers, Campaigns are won by Tanks and Wars are won with Artillry, guess which we would use straight away?

... we do actually have multiple teratons of TNT available in our nuclear stockpile. Several times over. We, as in, the United States, possess a nuclear arsenal capable of lethally irradiating the globe some 8 or 9 times.

spam Drones which they cannot meaningfully counter and bombard them with arty fire.

Our primitive drones are not much of a challenge to a TechMarine. There are prepubescent children in Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan capable of hacking our drones (and have done so). These devices are not super-tech (they are, in fact, off-the-shelf RC helicopters with a single weapon mount added to them as an after-market option).

One issue with just overwhelming them by number is that we humans are rather cowardly. If you know that you are going to die charging those massive scary mother hubbards you don't feel very tempted to, even if your sergeant threatens to put you in prison for running away.

Ah, no we're not. Not really. At least, not the people in our combat arms units in the military.

Big dudes in hulking armor? Hit one with an AT-4, see what happens. He fall over? Ok, good. Keep doing that.

They didn't? Call for fire.

They fall over? Good. Fire for effect.

 easysauce wrote:
well... marines die to normal combat blades if done right, so Im not really buying the whole "guns 38k yers into the future are more powerful then guns now (autoguns to autoguns basically)" if a simple knife/sword can kill them if you hit a weak spot...

also, lasguns/autoguns in 40k are not described as being any more powerful then current small arms (albeit the logistics of las guns are better, and then there is the theoretical "over charge") las/auto guns dont vaporise a guards man into nothing ness, they seem to just put a hole in them similar to conventional arms vs people.

also, 40k artillary and large bore weapons are not necesarily some high tech version of what we have now, sure we dont have plas/las/melta, but things comparable to say, basilisks? yeah, you better believe we have that level of destructive power without nukes.

modern troopers with tanks/artillary/small arms on the a huge scale could fight them off...

or lose horribly,

id say 60% the marines win due to suprise/tech advantage, 40% the humans rally together and over whelm them with #'s and "death by a thousand cuts"

Are we going by BL fluff standards?

Lasguns have vaporised Orks in different books, Cooked a 3 meter long fish through 2 meters of water, put 2 foot deep holes in Steelcreete (future steel and concrete hybrid)
and displaced enough force to lift a man in powerarmour a few feet off the ground and 30ish feet backwards.

cause then a lasgun is 3-4x times more powerful than an APFSDS fired from the 120mm beast on our M1A2 tanks....

Remeber as time changes so do weapons

compair the propellant in a modern bullet to gunpowder used 150+ years ago, one is superiour to the other, Now stretch that over 38,000 years, bullets can change.

If all else we can drown the Space marines with a wave of a 600 million screaming chinamen

I was specifically responding to the possibility of just drowning them in soldiers.

It's not a plausible Earth tactic.

Oh, yeah, we don't do that. No need to, really. Also, soldiers are expensive.

 Psienesis wrote:
Oh, yeah, we don't do that. No need to, really. Also, soldiers are expensive.

Well, we still wouldn't need to sacrifice enormous numbers of men, but even if we did, we'd win in a heartbeat. Losing a single sergeant would be crippling to a Battle Company, while quite a few countries could lose regiments without realizing. A single bullet through an eye is worse for the Marines than most single countries being eradicated for us.

The thing is that even with future metals and stuff, we still can't quite account for the BL level of uber-ness. A M1A2 doesn't need to pierce a Power Armour to kill whats inside, the force of the impact is probably many thousand times more than what any living thing can sustain. Similarly, BL and GW publications tend to show Marines as being nearly impervious to most common chemical gases, or simply needing a bit of time to recover after exposure, while we have gases that will kill anything deader then dead in a few milliseconds.

Failing that, 100 men could spend their entire life (and a few more) in a constant state of murder and mayhem, and I'm still pretty sure they wouldn't get through most countries population. We wouldn't even need to fight them, just outlive them.

Well this is also forgetting the concepts of yields/calcs. For example, a high-end space Marine simply has to fire one shot from his plasma pistol to instantly kill all life on the continent he's current standing on due to plasma guns at times being described as being hotter than the Sun. Mind you, a thumbtack superheated to the temperature of the sun's core will instantly kill everything on an Australian-sized chunk of land.

Then there's the low, low end, with the Word Bearers and their allergy to pointy sticks.

Oh man they'd get removed from existance so quickly its not even funny.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Oh man they'd get removed from existance so quickly its not even funny.

Except if they're mid end or the high end. In which case we're hurt bad or all life on Earth is killed off. We could only deal with low end Astartes fairly reasonably. Anything else and we either are crippled or are vaporized.