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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 0041/01/27 02:30:15
Subject: Which is best for Pressure/ tying up: Termagants vs Hormagants vs Gargoyles
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Lurking Gaunt
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I'm trying to create a Tyranid list with the new codex, and really like the idea of waves going at my enemy. The primary goal is to devastate the first lines enemy infantry, get some footage on objectives, and give the enemy threats they need to deal with, taking some of the fire off my second wave and big bugs.
The question is, what of the 3 units mentioned are best for the first wave for rushing objectives and slamming into enemy infantry?
I will discuss the benefits and disadvantages of each as I see them, but would love to hear others' opinions.
Termagants:
Cheapest at 4 points. 40pts=10 termas, 8 hormas, 6.66 gargoyles
The most bodies for your points.They have guns, benefit from Onslaught. Could take toxin sacks, bringing them to the price of a gargoyle, I don't see this as being worth it. Running the gants each turn won't really be and issue because of the short range of their guns. Only have 1 attack base. Need synapse but are easy to keep in synapse range. Run a min of 1 and a max of 6. Scoring unit.
Hormagants:
Cost 5 points. 50pts= 12.5 terma, 10 hormas, 8.33 gargoyles
Scything Talons do not reroll ones, but now count as AP 6. Very disappointing, unless against ork boyz. No firearm, but will be running anyway. They run an average of 6-7 inches, but run a minimum of 4 and a maximum of 9. Have Fleet. Move a guaranteed 10 inches a turn. Also move through cover  . 2 attacks base. Can take upgrades, but I feel are better left naked. Need synapse, but are a bit irritating to keep in synapse range if no fast synapse. Instinctive behavior feed really hurts swarms of these guys. Scoring Unit.
Gargoyles:
Cost 6 points. 60pts = 15 terma, 12 horma, 10 gargoyles
Jump infantry. Move a guaranteed 13 inches a turn. Can take upgrades, but become expensive. Need synapse. Are not scoring. Have a fleshborer. Need synapse and need fast synapse to keep up with them, Have blinding venom. Poisoned with blind. However, field the least bodies per point. Dangerous terrain tests caused by difficult terrain will cause casualties if the unit is still large.
Right now I'm leaning towards hormagaunts, the extra point buys extra speed, AP6, fleet, and move through cover.What do you guys think? What did I forget to take into account? Is the first wave of pressure even worth it?
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/01/27 04:16:02
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/27 03:52:37
Subject: Re:Which is best for Pressure/ tying up: Termagants vs Hormagants vs Gargoyles
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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Well, Termagants are too slow for the first wave, and I'd rather take Gargoyles over Hormagaunts as they are the fastest and therefore most reliable to get into combat. With fleshborers they effectively have the same number of attacks as Hormagaunts on the charge, and one of those attacks is strength 4 ap 5. With Blinding Venom you can have a few of them reduce your enemies WS for any follow up charges, or just to make sure they kill less Gargoyles, and they can hurt Toughness 7+ models like Wraithknights, and get rerolls to wound against Toughness 3 models. Plus if you lose Synapse for a turn the worst that can happen with Gargoyles is getting pinned, while Horms are dangerously depressed and will commit suicide if they don't have Synapse Creature nearby to stop them from hurting themselves.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/27 03:58:09
Subject: Re:Which is best for Pressure/ tying up: Termagants vs Hormagants vs Gargoyles
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
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PrinceRaven wrote:Plus if you lose Synapse for a turn the worst that can happen with Gargoyles is getting pinned, while Horms are dangerously depressed and will commit suicide if they don't have Synapse Creature nearby to stop them from hurting themselves.
I voted Gargoyles and it was this factor which tipped it in their favor.
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BlaxicanX wrote:A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/27 04:10:47
Subject: Which is best for Pressure/ tying up: Termagants vs Hormagants vs Gargoyles
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Lurking Gaunt
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Oh man those are some very good points.
I've also just realized that this first wave of little bugs will more than likely be destroyed after they hit, so it does not matter if the unit is scoring or not, as the unit will have been killed. Gargoyles are also taller due to flying bases, providing much more reliable cover for monstrous creatures and tall units early on. A razorback on a hill could fire over gaunts, but the gargoyles are too tall. The real killer with gargoyles is the difficult terrain causing dangerous terrain test. If a unit of 30 gargoyles starts or ends their move in terrain, you are likely loosing 5-6 of your models. It will probably be better to just put the gargoyles behind terrain rather than in it. It will be a pricey first wave unit that is sure to die, but will tie the enemy up while the rest of the force gets there. Or will the army be too far away to be a threat and just give the enemy something to shoot at before the main force gets there? Especially in the case of Necrons. Hmm
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/27 04:11:58
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/27 04:17:09
Subject: Re:Which is best for Pressure/ tying up: Termagants vs Hormagants vs Gargoyles
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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On the bright side, Gargoyles can fly over terrain while Hormagaunts and Termagants have to move through it, they do have move through cover but you'd be surprised how often you roll low on all 3 dice.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/27 04:28:38
Subject: Which is best for Pressure/ tying up: Termagants vs Hormagants vs Gargoyles
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Lurking Gaunt
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Yes, but with hormies they can walk up to the edge of the terrain, then use their min 4inch run move to get inside the terrain. Thus providing a cover save. Gargoyles can fly over the terrain, but are exposed to the full force of enemy shooting for a turn with only a 6+ armor. Hopefully there is some stuff to hide behind. It seems I have overlooked that. They gargoyles can move up to the edge of something like a wall or building, thus being completely out of line of sight from most of enemy units, then jump over into their face next turn. Hmm. I will need to watch more battle reports with both units. The shooting and blinding venom combo seems very attractive, and I doubt the shooting will affect the change range much, if at all. Now that I really think about rolling 3 dice for move through cover, I cant tell you how many times I've rolled a 3, 3, and a 4 for bounding leap in the old codex. True. This makes them marginally slower and less threatening than their flying counterparts. Do you feel hormagaunts have a place? If so, where?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/27 04:34:03
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/27 05:36:59
Subject: Re:Which is best for Pressure/ tying up: Termagants vs Hormagants vs Gargoyles
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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Well, my hormagaunts currently have had their scything talons ripped off and are now carrying spinefists .  I suppose they could be useful as a relatively fast scoring unit for last turn objective capturing, but that's a bit situational, I just don't think they're worth the extra point over Termagants.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/27 07:00:07
Subject: Re:Which is best for Pressure/ tying up: Termagants vs Hormagants vs Gargoyles
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Raging Ravener
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I run a unit of 20 hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs--and wouldn't run them without--and have been having a lot of success with them. They are followed by a unit of 30 naked termagaunts and tervigon.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/28 05:04:18
Subject: Re:Which is best for Pressure/ tying up: Termagants vs Hormagants vs Gargoyles
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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I was thinking about this and decided to run some numbers on the distance a brood can charge something on the second turn (since that seems to be the goal). These calcs are assuming there are no casualties, no Adrenal Glands, and the broods are moving over clear ground.
Termagants:
Average movement first turn: 9.5"
Reliable charge range on second turn: 11"
Total: 20.5"
Hormagaunts:
Average movement first turn: 13.25"
Reliable charge range on second turn: 13"
Total: 26.25"
Gargoyles:
Average movement first turn: 15.5"
Reliable charge range on second turn: 17"
Total: 32.5"
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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