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Hi, I've been thinking about warbuggies.

I've got 6 trukks, and I thought I could try prox'n em as war-buggies, and was wondering if there were any players who'd tried them, and how they thought they aught to be used.

Ive tried them, and they get blown up so quickly. I really like the idea of warbuggies, and think they are really fun to use, but they are so fragile! av 10 with 2 hp. If they could outflank or something, and carry a reliable multi-melta, might be worth it.

But when I used them I only used a squad of 3 and I kept them in reserve so they wouldnt give up fist blood. Then came in and fired a bunch of shots at some infantry with their big shootas. Actually did okay to thin down a blob of cultists. But then the very next turn they just got toasted. I think if I were to run them again I may go for the TL rokkits and try to blow up a tank or something like that. I might also try to have them move around behind cover.

Also the warbuggy models are a lot smaller than the trukks, If you just put wheels on the trukk bed, that would be about the size of the buggy.

Oh, bummer they're that much smaller? Eh....well I can still try them, and if I like them and want to fiddle with em as a concept...I could go get some of the Kromlech ones.

I thought that they might be something interesting to run behind some Battle Fortresses, run them with skortchas and if the fortresses get piled on, I can burn the guys off. Something along those lines.

If not that, maybe run them as rockets and keep the Battle fortresses target priority janky.

Leaves me with some room to try odd stuff in other slots with a decent amount of anti-v in the fast attack slot.

Actually if you use the skorcha trakks, it might be about the same length.

But I agree they are fun to use. I think if we could use grot gunners, bs3, they would suddenly prove much more useful.

They are fun to use in cassual fun lists but srsly don't buy any untill the next ork codex in about 2-3 month's time.

I run 2 skorcha trakks in my list. I run trukk boys so the wartrakks get overlooked the first and second rounds of shooting. For anti infantry ap 4 burnination they are gold for 40 points a piece. And if they get shot then who cares, that just means another squad of boys will be in cc range next turn.

Always wondered why Warbuggies were given vehicle stats when they're basically the same thing as SM attack bikes! 10/10/10 Open-Topped just isn't very survivable. They don't even get the Exhaust Cloud rule that Ork Bikerz get. AND can't fight in CC, which seems highly un-orky.

All that said, I'm still planning to grab a few. I just like the concept.

I am playing around with an Ork list that runs 3x 3 Rokkit Buggies and have had a decent amount of success with them. With them being in a squadron, they are a bit more resilient against just handing over first blood than our trukks and being TL rokkits, they connect decently. They provide a decent annoyance to vehicles and bike-based armies given the rokkit's AP3.

I ran a few experiments with my local group where I played the same list 6 times; 3 using 3x 3 rokkit buggies and 3 using 3x 3 deffkoptas. I did not outflank or hold either in reserve and more times than not, the deffkoptas would give away first blood or flee off the table after first turn while the buggies required my opponent to put something a bit heftier into it before they could truly destroy a full squadron. One thing that's very important when running buggies is that they are a vehicle squadron - so they have a 4" coherency instead of 2" like other units. This plus being fearless (they are vehicles) is huge in my opinion.

I run my buggies stock with rokkits. I have looked at RPJ or upgrading them to Trakks and really, it's not worth it. They are there for a specific purpose and it's not worth spending the extra points beyond the weapon upgrade.


UPDATE:
One thing to keep in mind is that all of the following are approximately the same point value for a fast attack slot.

3 Deffkoptas (stock)
3 Rokkit Buggies
9 Stormboyz
4 Warbikers
1 Dakkajet (RPJ)

Each one has it's strengths and advantages; however, in my opinion, the buggies and jet are the only ones I don't have to worry about failing a morale test with after a couple die.

I take rokkit buggies pretty frequently actually, and as long as you can hide them properly in the beginning, they usually kill a thing or two before the whole squad dies. As mentioned before, they really at least need exhaust cloud to really be worth their points, but in general, once one of us gets first blood, they end up very low on the opponent's priority list, so they run around and kill stuff. Or tank shock random weak things. Or both. Twin linked is just about as good as if they had grot gunners, plus it makes them an okay, albeit VERY last ditch effort flyer hunter.

How does the density of terrain affect how you use em...while we're at it.

Well id take trakks on them if it wasnt for the price cost

Zomnivore wrote:
How does the density of terrain affect how you use em...while we're at it.

If you spend the additional 5pts more, the buggies can be trakks which allow you to reroll terrain tests. Without it, you run the risk of getting immobilized and taking a HP. You CAN leave an immobilized vehicle behind in a squadron; however, it turns into another kill point if you're playing purge the alien or scouring so keep that in mind. In terms of avoiding terrain, it's not bad but then you're spending time maneuvering and bee-lining around instead of doing a full press forward.

If Skorchas get turret AND torrent in the codex, then I'd take them for 40 points apiece.

 PipeAlley wrote:
If Skorchas get turret AND torrent in the codex, then I'd take them for 40 points apiece.

If this happens they'll be a near auto-take like lootas.

Must..... Have skorchas with torrent. 10p uppgrade for extra gubbins and fuel

I like to take the Forgeworld loadout in the Grot Bomm Launcha. Totally worth their points and strategic gold.

Have to agree with the Barun above. then again... it's a one shot only :/

Like they ever get more than one shot before they get blown up anyway

I love buggies, but they don't love me ;D

Zomnivore wrote:
How does the density of terrain affect how you use em...while we're at it.

I typically don't take trakks, because it adds even more points to the unit, which is prolly gonna die anyway, so the odd time that one gets immobilized just leave it behind (as long as it's not a KP.) I keep them as hidden as possible when deploying them, they are very enticing for first blood, but since they have a 12" move they can typically get into a firing position from that point forward. I also use a mek with kff in a BW full of meganobz, so I usually keep one of them within 6," for the first turn at least, for an additional layer of protection. Just run them on a flank, along cover, and they'll do something good for you. Get that cover save and use LOS blockers whenever you can. I do use rokkits because they're decent, and typically underestimated, all-around killers of vehicles/MCs, so I can't speak for skortchas or big shootas. And if they do attract AT fire, hopefully it's preventing something more important from getting shot at.

They had their uses in 5 edition with a 4+ kff. Now they need a serious pointcost reduction to be considered as usable. I mean people can get warwalkers for almost the same cost...
And they generally can't do much killing.

3 tl rokkits are around 1-2 hits with s8 ap3 and 24'. Which is very poor at 105 pts for such a squishy platform that's most likely gona shoot at front or side armor.
3 tl bigshootas are around 4-5 s5 ap5 hits with 36'. It's also not very great for 90 pts. Also, orkses generally don't lack s5 shooting.
3 scorchas will never make it there for 120 pts on such a squishy platform. Fun choice though. And if you somehow manage to hide them while you approach...but i'd just go for 12 trukkboyz with a bigshoota and a ram on a truck (117 pts)

Overall, i lean towards deffkoptas more than buggies. Both options are sub-par. At least koptas have scouts, are looking cooler imo and have more uses.

I guess to me, the big benefit to war-buggies over Deffkoptas is that they don't have leadership, and orks are sorta weak against that sort of thing in small numbers, that and they're cheaper AV platforms compared to koptas.

Do you think that koptas offer that much more effectiveness?

I'm not saying you're wrong to like koptas or that I'm even correct I'm just trying to get a fuller appreciation for nuances of why you do or don't like em.

3 buggies with rockets = 105

3 koptas with rockets = 135

Is that 30 pt difference enough to justify a slightly more expensive suicidal unit?

Anything 3 Warbuggies can do a Dakkajet does better..

Except shoot on turn 1.. really though other than that..

*Edit* Don't get me wrong I love them, and wish I could buy some knowing I'd use them.. I don't even use my two Dakkajets, and wish I had more trukks..

Zomnivore wrote:
I guess to me, the big benefit to war-buggies over Deffkoptas is that they don't have leadership, and orks are sorta weak against that sort of thing in small numbers, that and they're cheaper AV platforms compared to koptas.

Do you think that koptas offer that much more effectiveness?

I'm not saying you're wrong to like koptas or that I'm even correct I'm just trying to get a fuller appreciation for nuances of why you do or don't like em.

3 buggies with rockets = 105

3 koptas with rockets = 135

Is that 30 pt difference enough to justify a slightly more expensive suicidal unit?

When i use koptas - i separate them in units of 1 to get more versatility and avoid ld problems. Shooting at 1 kopta is such an overkill that the opponent usually avoids doing this. While koptas are flying around and aid advancing forces. I've found out that bs koptas are not worse than rokkit and i usually don't take rokkits unless i got 10 points to spare. Those guyz can eat overwatch. They can shoot from angles that allow focusing fire on something useful or something with worse cover. I've had a few koptas breaking a broadside squad cause they managed to snipe out 2 drones and the squad failed ld and ran off the board. Yep, that's exceptional but they usually have some uses. They're faster and easier to hide. They got scout. Sometimes they can tie up a shooty unit for a turn or two. They don't care bout terrain that much. And i find them not less durable than buggies cause they have jink, t5, 4+ and 2 wounds which is ususally better for survival than 10-10-10 2hp and opentopped.
Though, once again, both this units are mediocre at best. I just see koptas being more useful and versatile.

I'd run rokkit buggies with my old kan wall in 5th and they'd always surprise me. Being fast, it's not that hard to hit side or even rear armor.

 Rismonite wrote:

*Edit* Don't get me wrong I love them, and wish I could buy some knowing I'd use them.. I don't even use my two Dakkajets, and wish I had more trukks..

Lol none of the units we're talking about are worth their points anymore... stupid eldar ruining everyone's fun.

I put so much time into my dakkajet, and I never take it anymore because it either wastes turns not coming in, dies immediately with A10, or just doesn't perform for more than one turn (the WAGGHH) with a S6 gun. Maybe I'm exceptionally unlucky with it, but I only take it if I absolutely have to, like if I know they're taking flyers. The trukk full of boyz I've found works by far the best IF I don't plan on attacking or doing anything useful with them.

Anyway, I suppose I only use buggies because that's what I have built and painted. I tried koptas a couple times before building them, and didn't have that great a success with them, so I switched to buggies, But I do see your point about splitting them into single squads. So it's probably just a matter of personal preference. Proxy them both for now, and see what you like better before you devote time/money to it.

My guess though, is that since everybody and their grandnob has koptas from the AoBR box, that buggies will get a new model and better rules once the new codex comes out, whereas koptas will stay relatively the same.

 Awesomesauce wrote:

My guess though, is that since everybody and their grandnob has koptas from the AoBR box, that buggies will get a new model and better rules once the new codex comes out, whereas koptas will stay relatively the same.

Everyone has the AoBR koptas also because the models look great compared to the finecast ones. Seriously, GW needs to throw away the current retail mold for koptas.

 Unholyllama wrote:

 Awesomesauce wrote:

My guess though, is that since everybody and their grandnob has koptas from the AoBR box, that buggies will get a new model and better rules once the new codex comes out, whereas koptas will stay relatively the same.

Everyone has the AoBR koptas also because the models look great compared to the finecast ones. Seriously, GW needs to throw away the current retail mold for koptas.

I agree 100% they're 10x cooler, and feel like a modern style model.

I definitely am not going to buy the garbage looking buggies GW is selling, atm. Definitely either going to end up proxying or getting something 3rd party. -
**

Dakkajets not pulling their weight with something the eldar can do? (orks is my first army I'm building so I wouldn't know).

Another reason that the squad of buggies appeals to me over a jet is unlucky reserve rolls for the jets.

Zomnivore wrote:

Dakkajets not pulling their weight with something the eldar can do? (orks is my first army I'm building so I wouldn't know).

Another reason that the squad of buggies appeals to me over a jet is unlucky reserve rolls for the jets.

The buggy-related models haven't been updated since 2nd/3rd edition and GorkaMorka if I remember correctly.

In terms of the Dakkajet vs Eldar - it's really about the Wave Serpent Shields. 60" range with D6+1 S7 shots that ignore cover pretty much make it viable to take down any flyer. Get close for a chance for them to hit you with a Scatter Laser and you might as well remove a flyer off of the table.

Now that said - there are times you want your reserve roll to be delayed slightly. I also play Necrons and if I'm going up against a list with some hefty flyers, I prefer coming in after they have at least 1 flyer in so that I can focus on it instead of it focusing on me.

 Zomnivore wrote:


I definitely am not going to buy the garbage looking buggies GW is selling, atm. Definitely either going to end up proxying or getting something 3rd party.

Yeah the old models look like hell. But I love of scratchbuilding, so I just built mine out of random crap I had laying around [Shameless plug] you can check them out from the link in my sig, I think on page 2 [/shameless plug]

Dakkajets not pulling their weight with something the eldar can do? (orks is my first army I'm building so I wouldn't know).

Eh, that was just me complaining about eldar being all around cheaper/better/brokener in general, then followed by complaining about dakkajets just being meh for their points. As unholyllama said tho, it is good for them to come in second when the opponent has flyers, because you can at least down one of them before going down yourself. And I totally agree that's by far the best use for the dakkajet, since its other uses can typically be filled by better units.

EDIT cuz I screwed up the quotes

With skyfire do the buggies become even more palatable options?

Or are the dakkajets just going to be better more often anyway.

(lets say buggies specifically because I want to use each Fast Attack slot as fully as possible, and not 1 kopta in each)