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Ok boys, didn't see the customary pre-release thread that normally comes out so I decided to start it off. What are the basic things you are wanting to see from this new Dwarf book? I for one am hoping for a big old stone Dwarven ancestor something. Just a big sturdy unit that when backed up by a smattering of Dwarven artillery,can really let the Dwarves play the aggressor in games.

The destruction of the rune system. The creation of a rune magic system. Probably just similar to warrior priests.

More options in general.

I don't want to see the rune system destroyed. It is one of the things that make Dwarves unique to play.

Tomb Kings had a cool magic thing going on too and it was gutted by the new edition.

 snurl wrote:
I don't want to see the rune system destroyed. It is one of the things that make Dwarves unique to play.

Tomb Kings had a cool magic thing going on too and it was gutted by the new edition.

Which is why I'd expect to see the rune system go the same way. They'll probably have 8-10 different runes, no combinations allowed.

 snurl wrote:
Tomb Kings had a cool magic thing going on too and it was gutted by the new edition.

It wasn't cool, it required a zillion FAQs because it was an entirely different system of play for one army. You can't do that because the game can't expand under those conditions without rewriting one army every single time.

They re write the armies every single edition (except wood elves) anyway so whats the point?
I played my TK in 8th before the new book came out and it worked just fine. We didn't need any FAQs either. Then again I don't play with RAW lawyers.

What do I want to see from the new book? TRADITION. Something the dwarves have stood for since the beginning.

I don't want runes to go, they make dwarves unique. A 'rune magic' system could be cool. Kinda like the anvils becoming bound spells and access to other bound runes. They would function similar to spells, but no miscast or irresistible? Would be better than our magic denial of the past that makes the magic phase boring for all

Von Chogg

 snurl wrote:
They re write the armies every single edition (except wood elves) anyway so whats the point?
I played my TK in 8th before the new book came out and it worked just fine. We didn't need any FAQs either. Then again I don't play with RAW lawyers.

a) it takes them years to rewrite armies 9th is coming and all the 8th armies haven't been redone.
b) TK didn't work "just fine" they were horribly broken and you can search all through these forums alone to find confirmation. Ogres were the same with their weirdo gutt magic back then.
c) You don't have to be a lawyer to need clarification or you wouldn't need rules at all. Quite a bit of stuff simply isn't clear. I'd say at least 1/3 of the time I see a thread in YMDC I'm like, wow, that's a good question. You can totally make up an answer, but then you're not RAW lawyering, you're actually rules-writing. Without the benefit of playtesting and balancing and such. I believe that's far worse.

 DukeRustfield wrote:
I'd say at least 1/3 of the time I see a thread in YMDC I'm like, wow, that's a good question. You can totally make up an answer, but then you're not RAW lawyering, you're actually rules-writing. Without the benefit of playtesting and balancing and such. I believe that's far worse.

While this is certainly true, you'll equally often find threads in YMDC where you go "oh come on. Yes, it's poorly worded, but it's easy to agree what makes the most sense" and until people started unravelling the words of the book, everyone were agreeing on the reading that did make sense.

The rules are poorly written in many cases (especially in 40k where things like the fortifications are clearly hastily thrown together rules with 0 play testing) but many of them we have only found after having them pointed out to us by others on forums. I played Fantasyback at the start of the 90s. I knew the rulebook cover to cover and could tell you on what page a rule was. I also found the rules to be well written and could always answer a rules question and cite the rules for it.
I realise now that my opinion most probably filled in the gaps where the rules were unclear, but as we all agreed where I played, it worked out with no complaints. YMDC doesn't allow for that, because there's always gonna be someone in your group that has read the discussions and will start having other opinions.

But if you remove runes and dwarfs have no mages and their warmachine become weak , because of lack of runes AND on top of that they are just as slow as ever , then why play the army?
Build in magic items usualy suck compering to those from the main rule book . Dwarfs may have uber specials , but specials still suffer from the 7th "say no to teclis" dimnishing returns.
Take away the rune system and dwarfs are a slow moving empire army without mages .

Makumba wrote:
But if you remove runes and dwarfs have no mages and their warmachine become weak , because of lack of runes AND on top of that they are just as slow as ever , then why play the army?
Build in magic items usualy suck compering to those from the main rule book . Dwarfs may have uber specials , but specials still suffer from the 7th "say no to teclis" dimnishing returns.
Take away the rune system and dwarfs are a slow moving empire army without mages .

The runelord bangs his gong-like gong, covered with runes of the lightningy type, sending bolts of lightning striking out of his gong-like gong, frizzling the edges of the enemy's coats.
Wouldn't exactly be hard to give them magic and still stay fluffy.

 Purifier wrote:

Makumba wrote:
But if you remove runes and dwarfs have no mages and their warmachine become weak , because of lack of runes AND on top of that they are just as slow as ever , then why play the army?
Build in magic items usualy suck compering to those from the main rule book . Dwarfs may have uber specials , but specials still suffer from the 7th "say no to teclis" dimnishing returns.
Take away the rune system and dwarfs are a slow moving empire army without mages .

The runelord bangs his gong-like gong, covered with runes of the lightningy type, sending bolts of lightning striking out of his gong-like gong, frizzling the edges of the enemy's coats.
Wouldn't exactly be hard to give them magic and still stay fluffy.

Never saw a Runelord Miscast.

I think they should have runic magic of some kind but more reliable than the Winds of Magic kind
more based on bound spells (maybe with a bonus to cast from Runesmiths/RuneLords?) and more based on buffing than "double 6, you're dead!"

TanKoL wrote:
I think they should have runic magic of some kind but more reliable than the Winds of Magic kind
more based on bound spells (maybe with a bonus to cast from Runesmiths/RuneLords?) and more based on buffing than "double 6, you're dead!"

Yes, that would make sense.

It is possible to convincingly give Rune Magic the ability to miscast. Anything can malfunction.
I thought it was possible for the Runelord to blow himself up?

War machines will just upgrades with various runes. Rune lords themselves will have bound magic like warrior priests.

I don't want a magic phase, didn't like it in the previous book with the anvil, don't want it now, now semi bound spells in the shooting phase is fine similar to what we have now is fine.

Set rune weapons would also be a big turn off to me, I want to keep our weapon customization, it's one of the defining featuresof the dwarf book

 DukeRustfield wrote:
War machines will just upgrades with various runes. Rune lords themselves will have bound magic like warrior priests.

I like the idea of some runes having bound spells, but I think it should be an add on to the existing system.

About the rune system, it's not even like it's op or anything, so people wanting it to stay the same is not power gamers wanting to keep power gaming, for once both sides agree and like the rune system.

My fav rune btw is the rune of fire, love it and adds so much theme wise

It is about time the Dwarfs got some love.
I might even consider starting a Dwarf army. Dwarfs are awesome.
I do hope they keep the rune system, I like it.

 Purifier wrote:

Makumba wrote:
But if you remove runes and dwarfs have no mages and their warmachine become weak , because of lack of runes AND on top of that they are just as slow as ever , then why play the army?
Build in magic items usualy suck compering to those from the main rule book . Dwarfs may have uber specials , but specials still suffer from the 7th "say no to teclis" dimnishing returns.
Take away the rune system and dwarfs are a slow moving empire army without mages .

The runelord bangs his gong-like gong, covered with runes of the lightningy type, sending bolts of lightning striking out of his gong-like gong, frizzling the edges of the enemy's coats.
Wouldn't exactly be hard to give them magic and still stay fluffy.

awesome big ass unit that makes dwarfs even more static and makes the rune lord and even better target for opposing players cannons. it would almost be as bad as having a TK casket .

Rune lords themselves will have bound magic like warrior priests.

What may not be bad , if it wasn't for the fact that runelords are , well, lord a WP are heros , so it is easier to spam them or fit them in to a list . And for me personaly the problem is that in Poland we play with cut lord,special and rare slots so in smaller games I would lose all the runes , but would not get the new caster dwarf.

 Formosa wrote:
About the rune system, it's not even like it's op or anything, so people wanting it to stay the same is not power gamers wanting to keep power gaming, for once both sides agree and like the rune system.

Agreed, its not for power gaming. But it is an expected change come the new book, TK and OK both lost their special magic phase, so while i would like to see runes stay the same and the Dwarves not get a magic phase except for semi-bound spells, it is likely to be a bit different im afraid. It appears that GW want everyone to have the same (mostly OP) magic phase

Just a note that many editions ago (2nd/3rd?) Dwarfs had wizards...so it is in the history as it were.

Ogres didn't have a special magic phase. Our spells were just a weird type and all our casters were Lore Masters.

I just want dwarves to be come a fun army to play against.

My current strategy against dwarves is to not play. I castle up out of the range of their war machines for 6 turns.

If there were more options so every list wasn't the same, it would be okay. And for the love of god, no more laser guided templates.

What would I like to see? New Dwarf technology perhaps a Steam Tank type unit. Also I would like to see some kind of drunken Dwarf unit or special upgrade.

I want more Gyrocopters and a better use for miners. Let me pop up mid-field like entombed beneath the sands!

 Grey Templar wrote:
Ogres didn't have a special magic phase. Our spells were just a weird type and all our casters were Lore Masters.

Which was out of line with how magic worked in every other army...so equivalent to a special magic phase lol

 DarkWind wrote:
What would I like to see? New Dwarf technology perhaps a Steam Tank type unit.

Chaos Dwarfs are really steam tanky. Regular dwarfs are much more stable technology. The big balloon in the BRB. I think the gyrocopter is pretty out of place as it is.

 DukeRustfield wrote:

 DarkWind wrote:
What would I like to see? New Dwarf technology perhaps a Steam Tank type unit.

Chaos Dwarfs are really steam tanky. Regular dwarfs are much more stable technology. The big balloon in the BRB. I think the gyrocopter is pretty out of place as it is.

I would like to see Golems. I don't think those are in the game, and they seem to be a dwarven thing to have.

I probably won't pick anything up except maybe the army book, but I'm still really excited for this release, I'd like to see what direction they take the army in and what flavour they can add to it. I think a few snazzy special rules and new units (really would like to see a Zeppelin of some kind) would go a long way.

As for the rune system, I can see them simplifying it a little. Sorting out the runes into the normal magic item categories (maybe with Engineering added) and around 5 runes for each section, with the ability to take multiples, following certain restrictions, probably like in the current book (Rule of Three etc).

Duke you seem to be very anti anything Dwarf. I have played Dwarf's for about 7 years and although I don't win a great deal I have a lot of fun. Why do you not like the rune system or how Dwarf magic phases go. All you would be doing by giving Dwarf's a magic phase would be, to keep it balanced, reduce there ability to stop magic which turns them into every other army. Why is that useful. I for the sake of an example I could not like playing Ogres because I theoretically think they have too many wounds. Therefore I think in the next book for Ogres they should have 3 times less wounds but cost 3 times less. What would that achieve?

Also why not a steam tank type thing, Empire has them and Dwarf's are meant to be more technologically advanced than them so it makes sense.

Sorry if I sound like I am having a go but I am really just annoyed that people get annoyed about things like Dwarf's which are really not that powerful and accuse them of being broken/out of place so should be taken out completely because they are in fact not broken but are boring to play against. You have any idea how infuriating it is when 1 irresistible force roll on a certain spell can obliterate a large portion of your army even when you are supposedly the best at stopping magic?