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Hey guys, ever since reading Horus rising and false gods I've loved Luna wolves. Unfortunately, I have no desire to play 30k. So I was thinking of ways to justify 40k Luna wolves.

I was thinking, a chaos space marine Borne of a Daemon world, and this space marine is, say, slightly psychic (not enough to use) but enough to hear the echoes of the emperor's psychic power, in a reversal of the chaos tempting loyalists through whispers, this space marine is slowly believing in the emperor's light. After he finds a hidden cache of Luna wolves equipment, he knows what he must do. He gathers similarly minded Daemon planet borne people and leads them in a desperate spear tip out of the eye. They then take residence on a local death world, where the forsaken knights (my chapter of space marines) are ready to kill them. However, the forsaken knights realise that they follow the emperor, and spare them. So now these Luna wolves recruit from Damon worlds and failed neophytes of the forsaken knights. How stupid does it sound?

Failed neophytes? dont you die if you fail as a neophyte?

 MrBlackledge wrote:
Failed neophytes? dont you die if you fail as a neophyte?

Not nessacerily. Some of the rials are non-lethal, generally the failures are either returned home in shame, or become serfs.

Well it's your fluff, but I find it a bit far fetched that there are a number of Emperor-believing people on a daemon world at all.
And then Loyalists sparing an lone CSM, which was not corrupted in the first place and then having access to a daemon world in the EOT?

You'd be better of with a single LW Ship reentering real space after getting lost in the warp for 10k years and (fluff reasons).

Luna Wolves lost in the Warp sounds a lot more plausible than a somehow loyal (why is he loyal?) Chaos Space Marine finding a cache of Luna Wolves equipment (How did that end up there?) and escaping a Deamon World with a group of other people(What was the world like, how could he gather so many followers without being noticed and how did he escape?) who are subsequently for some reason spared by a group of Space Marines (Why did they spare those people? The Imperium is not known for being nice to people tainted by Chaos, even repentant heretics are granted a merciful death at best.) and start pretending to be the Luna Wolves (Why does the Imperium allow a random group of former heretics to dress up like some of it's most honoured, sacred warriors who turned heretic in the end?).
It seems to me that there are lots of holes in this story.
The Imperium would never accept it.
If you want to have Luna Wolves in M40 it would be better to go with the 'lost in the Warp before the Heresy and now returned' story.

How stupid does it sound?

Incredibly.

One... where does he get the ship and the thousands of Chaos-born servitors, slaves, serfs and soldiers to fly it out of the Eye?

Two... there's one way out of the Eye. Why does Cadia just let him tootle on past in what is obviously a ship of Chaotic origins?

So now these Luna wolves recruit from Damon worlds and failed neophytes of the forsaken knights

If the neophytes were not good enough to pass the trials of the other Chapter, then they either aren't going to be good enough for the Luna Wolves, or, instead, you have Derpy Marines and not Space Marines. These scrubs failed for a reason.

I would say make them from the 21st founding or cursed founding since the genetic material from all the legions are still stored on Terra including the traitor legions. You could make it that someone in the Imperium wanted to bring back the glory of the Luna Wolves and used their gene seed create a chapter of Space Marines in the image of the 16th legion, for your lost artifacts you could say they were recovered from after the Horus Hersey. To tie in your demon idea you could have it that the Chaos gods cursed the chapter with demonic taint because it is Horus's gene seed after all, so now all the chapter recruits are tainted those who pass were able to resist the taint became Luna Wolves those who failed became Chaos spawn or something. You can have the Foresaken chapter discover this terrible curse but instead of destroying them they help the Luna Wolves to find a way to lift this terrible curse from their chapter.

But honestly writer whatever you want it is your chapter

Alpha 1 wrote:
I would say make them from the 21st founding or cursed founding since the genetic material from all the legions are still stored on Terra including the traitor legions. You could make it that someone in the Imperium wanted to bring back the glory of the Luna Wolves and used their gene seed create a chapter of Space Marines in the image of the 16th legion, for your lost artifacts you could say they were recovered from after the Horus Hersey. To tie in your demon idea you could have it that the Chaos gods cursed the chapter with demonic taint because it is Horus's gene seed after all, so now all the chapter recruits are tainted those who pass were able to resist the taint became Luna Wolves those who failed became Chaos spawn or something. You can have the Foresaken chapter discover this terrible curse but instead of destroying them they help the Luna Wolves to find a way to lift this terrible curse from their chapter.

But honestly writer whatever you want it is your chapter

Hmmm, this does make a lot more sense when I think about it.

Honestly, I don't think this sounds very good. Most of the reasons have already been touched on (failed Neophytes means 'not good enough to be a Space Marine', logistically where does this guy get all his gear/support staff, and the Emperor isn't in the 'redemption' business and wouldn't waste time trying to convince a Chaos Marine to file off his spikes). As has been said, it is your fluff and you can run with it if you like... but don't be surprised if exactly nobody else thinks its kewl, or if everyone you tell it to rolls their eyes (and considering how much neckbeard rage can exist amongst some 40K players, you might be lucky if that is all you get).

Loyalist remnants of Traitor Legions are a hot topic these days, thanks to all the theories about the Blood Ravens. Loyalist Chapters created during the 21st Founding using Traitor gene-seed are also a hot topic these days... ALSO because of the Blood Ravens.

Someone suggested using the 21st Founding as the origin for your Chapter (nobody knows what went on during the Founding; a lot of crazy stuff happened to the Chapters it created and clearly there was some... unusual... gene-seed utilized) and I have to concur. If you were to say "This is my SM Chapter. They were created during the 21st Founding using Luna Wolves gene-seed, shhh don't tell the Inquisition" not many players would be able to object on any kind of fluff ground.

Though... don't call them the Luna Wolves. Or use Luna Wolves icons. The Inquisition *does* remember that sort of thing.

Also, recruiting from a Daemon World means you're recruiting Daemonhosts and such for your Chapter. I think these guys are going to be the target of the first-ever joint task-force Grey Knights/Sisters of Battle/The Exorcists throw-down. People who live on DaemonWorlds either don't live very long or, in the case of those worlds that have been held for very long times, don't know the Emperor even exists, so finding someone that can both conceive of a better life elsewhere in the light of the Emperor *and* be good enough to pass the initiation trials of a Space Marine Chapter are going to be less-common than finding blonde-haired female Untouchables standing between 5'7" and 6'4" weighing between 145 and 160 pounds with the first name of Jennifer.

Luna Wolves should be fine I do not think the Inquisition would be happy about the name but it could easily be argued that the Luna Wolves were loyal and the Sons of Horus were the traitors. After all Loken and his loyalists called them selves the Luna Wolves as they did not want to be identified with the traitorous Horus and his kind. If the events on Istvann III came out differently their might still be a Luna Wolves Space Marine Chapter.

However, an unhappy Inquisition is exactly what this Chapter *doesn't* want. These guys are the new kids on the SM block, they don't have the lineage of a First or Second Founding Chapter to keep the executioners away.

Battlebarge exits the warp nine thousand years late to the game. They start poking around to find out what the feth went down in that time, find out about the HH, do through shock, etc.

And in the end you have a Chapter of Astartes wearing white armor with a black trim with a lot of fun toys from the Great Crusade that, while still referencing their old battlecries of 'LUPERCAL!' in private, keep it tight lipped around everyone else and have taken to calling themselves 'Astral Wolves' or something. Maybe trying to pass themselves off as Ultramarine descendants or something.

I like the idea. If Chaos has the power to seduce and corrupt, the Emperor's light should be able to burn the darkness. The warp is a crazy place, and there are many paths to get into the material realm, not just the eye-of-terror (daemon/ chaos marine incursion occur all the time and very far away from the eye). Time in the warp is a very fickle thing, some 30k marines go in, and only a day passes, and their suddenly in the 40k millennium. Other are trapped there for far longer than 10,000 years.

Also, they are ‘other’ forces in the warp other than the negative emotions ones, the fable 13th company of Space Wolves come to mind. Who’s to say that they encountered a lost legionnaire in the warp, still fresh from the battle of Istavann V, knowing the blood on his hands, and what he has done.

Or he encounters Draigo, and instead of killing the Chaos Space Marine out-right, he uses his physic power and burned the emperor’s light back into the Luna Wolf.
And from there, he leaves the warp through a hole into the eldar web-way where he encounters the mysterious Harlequin. They lead him to an abandon Space Marine Monastery that has been long forgotten by the Imperium. And two centuries of hard work of rebuilding the place, and finding some of human natives on the planet, returns to a fully strengthen space marine force that is apart from the greater Imperium. Which then later down the timeline helps fight off a chaos invasion at the very same hole he came out of preventing the taint of chaos spreading through the web way.

You can make it fit, it is a large universe and stranger things have happen.

 Wyzilla wrote:


And in the end you have a Chapter of Astartes wearing white armor with a black trim with a lot of fun toys from the Great Crusade that, while still referencing their old battlecries of 'LUPERCAL!' in private, keep it tight lipped around everyone else and have taken to calling themselves 'Astral Wolves' or something.

"Astral Wolves"...? Hmmm... I prefer "Moon Doggies"

What do you really want here - redeemed chaos marines or Luna Wolves?

If Luna Wolves have a few loyalists escape the culling by Horus to actively fight in the lines against the traitor legions. As a reward for their loyalty, unlike their GK cousins they are allowed to eventually form a new chapter using stock geneseed but LW strategies and culture. This keeps the old iconography but you have access to the latest marine toys.

Alternatively play them as loyalists who keep the old weaponry and tactics and use the chaos dex as your baseline (minus the chaosy bits or modification and call it something different).

squidhills wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:


And in the end you have a Chapter of Astartes wearing white armor with a black trim with a lot of fun toys from the Great Crusade that, while still referencing their old battlecries of 'LUPERCAL!' in private, keep it tight lipped around everyone else and have taken to calling themselves 'Astral Wolves' or something.

"Astral Wolves"...? Hmmm... I prefer "Moon Doggies"

Three Wolf Moons?
Three Moon Wolves?

Just so you're aware, the Black Legion supplement introduced the Wolves of Horus warband, an offshoot of the Black Legion consisting of veteran Luna Wolves that turned against Abaddon as a userper of Horus after the Heresy. They wish to return to the days when Horus led the Luna Wolves and so paint themselves in the Luna Wolves colors.

The Wolves of Horus literally only exist so people like you can justify a Luna Wolves color scheme in current 40k without having to resort to the incredibly flimsy and trite excuse of "The warp sent them into the future."

The Wolves of Horus literally only exist so people like you can justify a Luna Wolves color scheme in current 40k without having to resort to the incredibly flimsy and trite excuse of "The warp sent them into the future."

40k is fantasy game where gods do stuff just-for-giggles. Time travel in 40k has happen a lot of times, its not flimsy.

From Grabnutz on relicnews.com

There's an example in the ork codex - Warlord Grizgutz used warp travel, and accidentally went back in time. Saw another warboss with a very similar looking gun, face, armour, smell etc. Naturally he gets into a fight.. with himself.. thinking to get himself a spare of his best gun, kills himself, and all the other orks become very confused.

From the Desert Raiders novel (or warriors, the one with Tallarns in) (By Jonny from relicnews.com)


From Eumerin on dakkadakka.com:

One of FFG's supplements for their 40K RPGs has a report regarding an "imposter" warship. The warship got lost while traveling through the warp, and pulled into port. Once there, the Imperium realized that the name of the ship was the same name as a warship currently under construction (navies don't typically have two ships with the same name), and they had no record of a captain with the same name as the captain of the warship.

From Ka Faraq Gatri on warseer.com:

In one of the Ravenor novels, Gideon and some of his entourage are forced a thousand or so years into the past, ending up at the last stand of a doomed Imperial Guard regiment.

I remember reading a blurp of a pre-imperium ship coming into contact with the 40k universe but it was quickly over-run by chaos. Anyway, time travel does happen in the warhammer 40k universe just not in any controlled way. It seems a lot of the stories involves ships traveling through the warp (which FTL, I believe, is a means of time travel) and going forward in time.So I don't think it is flimsy for someone to write fluff around it, Black Library authors had.

Cosmic_Seth wrote:
40k is fantasy game where gods do stuff just-for-giggles. Time travel in 40k has happen a lot of times, its not flimsy.

You missed the second part of my statement. "Flimsy and trite." As in something that everyone does and is completely unoriginal. If your reasoning consists of, "The warp did it." Then you're no better than the thousands of other fantasy stories that just say, "A wizard did it."

In the Black Legion supplement there is a short story about a loyalist chapter finding a Luna Wolf who had been in stasis for thousands of years. He had went to sleep prior to the heresy so knew nothing of Horus' betrayal. When the loyalists told him what had happened he took a ship and set a course for the Eye of Terror to avenge his loyal brothers that were murdered on Istvaan.

All that being said, if you want a 40k army of Luna Wolves you can say that a few were found in stasis and brought before the Lords of Terra for examination. The Wolves were found to be free of corruption and were given permission to raise a new chapter of space marines. Their true origins would be extinguished by the Lords of Terra, less these facts become widely known and create animosity amongst the other chapters. Only the Wolves themselves would know the truth and they would only reveal it to the highest of their order (similar to the Dark Angels).

jareddm wrote:
Just so you're aware, the Black Legion supplement introduced the Wolves of Horus warband, an offshoot of the Black Legion consisting of veteran Luna Wolves that turned against Abaddon as a userper of Horus after the Heresy. They wish to return to the days when Horus led the Luna Wolves and so paint themselves in the Luna Wolves colors.

The Wolves of Horus literally only exist so people like you can justify a Luna Wolves color scheme in current 40k without having to resort to the incredibly flimsy and trite excuse of "The warp sent them into the future."

Execellent, if I can find a free download of the supplement I'l check them out.
Thank you for the heads up.
Rereading, my Idea had a lot of holes in it, the largest being the ship. Also, I didn't have the emperor consciously actuely talking to him, more some kind of psychic echo.

one thing worth remembering is the EXTREME suspicon the traitors primarchs and their children fell under. a buncha luna wolves come out fo the warp, and the inqusition is just as likely to "kill em all just in case"

jareddm wrote:

Cosmic_Seth wrote:
40k is fantasy game where gods do stuff just-for-giggles. Time travel in 40k has happen a lot of times, its not flimsy.

You missed the second part of my statement. "Flimsy and trite." As in something that everyone does and is completely unoriginal. If your reasoning consists of, "The warp did it." Then you're no better than the thousands of other fantasy stories that just say, "A wizard did it."

So? If he wants the fluff for his army to be "unoriginal" so be it. At least its a DIY and not the BLUE MARINEZZ.

It might make it easier if I say the perpose of this army.
Primarily, I want to be using lunar wolf colours and iconography, I want to have a lot of terminators, mild warping on some armor, little-to-no flesh warping, want them to worship/ the emperor, and I WANT the inquisition to be vey much keep an eye on them. Also, I want to use lots of power axes.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
It might make it easier if I say the perpose of this army.
Primarily, I want to be using lunar wolf colours and iconography, I want to have a lot of terminators, mild warping on some armor, little-to-no flesh warping, want them to worship/ the emperor, and I WANT the inquisition to be vey much keep an eye on them. Also, I want to use lots of power axes.

Just use play the 30K rules for 40k. Or just say 'feth it' and don't bother with any justification and make them.

just say you're running pre-heresy luna wolves

problem solved

BrianDavion wrote:
just say you're running pre-heresy luna wolves

problem solved

 the shrouded lord wrote:

I have no desire to play 30k.

Just do a pre-heresy themed luna wolves army yet run them for 40k, No one normal will care