Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

so for the sake of variety I'm starting a Marine army. My favourite chapter is Raven Guard so naturally I'm going that route. This is a pre-purchase list so bear with me and any tips or advice would be appreciated.

HQ:
Chapter Master - Boltgun, Relic Blade, Artificer Armour, Shield Eternal, Jump pack, Melta Bombs

Shadow Captain Kayvaan Shrike

Elites:
Dreadnaught: Drop pod (storm bolter), Dreadnaught Power fist (storm bolter), Twin-linked Heavy flamer

7x Vanguard Veteran: 2x Lightning Claws, Jump packs

Troops:
5x scouts: Camo cloaks, 4x Sniper rifles, 1x Missile Launcher w/ Flakk

10x Tactical Marines: Missile Launcher w/ Flakk, Melta gun

10x Tactical Marines: Missile Launcher w/ Flakk, Melta gun

Fast Attack:
5x Assault Squad: Drop pod, (seargent: 2x Lightning claw, Melta bombs)

5x Assault Squad: Drop pod, (seargent: 2x Lightning Claw, Melta bombs)

Heavy Support:
Stormraven Gunship: storm strike missile, Twin-linked Multi-Melta, Twin-linked Lascannon

Thunderfire Cannon: Drop pod

Total: 1990.

now I haven't played marines since 3rd edition when I used BA. I wanted to keep the list somewhat fluffy (lightning claws, and a more assault orientated force with at least 1 team of scouts) but I still want to be able to win some games (of course). so any opinions tweaks or changes you guys might suggest I'd be happy to hear them. I can change pretty much anything as this list will be my shopping list as well .

as a side note does anyone know where to get the MK IV armour conversion kits (I think those are the ones the RG use more prominently with the studded shoulders and beaked helm)

thank you very much

Ok.... well do you want to win?
If so ditch the raven guard jump pack theme. It just doesn't work.
Sounds kindof brutal, but its true

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Ok.... well do you want to win?
If so ditch the raven guard jump pack theme. It just doesn't work.
Sounds kindof brutal, but its true

A bit much if you ask me.

You can still win games, just dont expect to win grand tournies unless you have the luck of teenzch.

Eternal warrior CM is fine though you should give em a Thunder hammer rather than the relic (as the shield prevents additional CCW bonus anyway)
Captain is fine:
Dreads are weak with storm bolters you already have enough bolters in the rest of the army. would rather see double heavy flamers for some tau fambe as well make it a ironclad to mostly save it from interceptor
Vanguard vets are bloody expensive. you could get more assault marines and give a sergeant the LC
Big marine blobs are so so without transport would sugest giving em a razor back or rhino for some scooty scout action

Assault squad in drop pods defeats the purpose of going raven guard doesn't it? give em back the packs and id add in flamers or even plasma pistol ( you have a extreme lacking of elite killers)

Id get some power fists or even power axes in the list some how.

as well probably change flakk missiles into plasma cannons on those tactical and if possible add in a ADL for a quad to round out the anti air.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Ok.... well do you want to win?
If so ditch the raven guard jump pack theme. It just doesn't work.
Sounds kindof brutal, but its true

Well that was a rubbish critique of a list if Ive ever seen one.


But seriously I think the jump packs can still work, you just have to be strategic in your usage of them. But I may also consider some rhinos. With the raven guard CT you can outflank with them or get that scout maneuver and shoot them right up to the enemy lines on first turn. This will give them some close combat threat to draw attention away from your vanguard vets.

Apoligies, i wrote the initial response then edited it a few times to make it seam more respectable but i guess its still not.
Shrike is biggest thing that needs to be taken out imo. Theres really nothing he can do that a regular captain cant.
Rhino rush is a much better take at it (Again imo)
vanguard Vets are quite expensive, and dont do to much out put.
Flakk missiles is a waste

thunderfires drop pod is also a waste, better to have it starting on bourd.

Lightning claws are subpar

Sorry initail response was a bit much :/

Hey if you're thinking going with some jetpack fun check mine out and see if you can get some ideas? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576505.page

Though I am going with Firehawks tactics which is a forgeworld tactic. Anyway I would drop the dread, and the thunderfire drop pod. Just have it on the board and raring to go with the shooting. idk about shrike since I've never played with him before but after googling him and reading something things about him he seems to be overcosted for what he does, however he can be good. You really want to play defensively with Shrike should you use him. He also isn't an amazing CC beatstick, but he does well with lots of bodies with him. Also unless you're expecting alot of fliers, drop the flak stuff on the missile launchers. As for the MKIV armor? here's a link http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine-Infantry-and-Accessories/LEGION_MKIV_MAXIMUS_ARMOUR.html

Hope I was able to help somewhat. I too am in the process of fine tuning that list I linked you, and am also in pre-buying it because I don't want to blow money I stuff I don't need.

I'm not sure how well it would do but if you like Jump infantry, what about something like this?

CT : Raven Guard

Chapter Master (Shield Eternal, Artificer, Jump Pack, Lightning claw)

Vanguard Vets (5, Jump Packs, Bolt Pistol, Lightning Claw, Stormshield on all)
Vanguard Vets (5, Jump Packs, Bolt Pistol, Lightning Claw, Stormshield on all)

Scouts (Land Speeder Storm w/ heavy flamer, Shotguns)
Tac Squad (10, Rhino, Melta, Multimelta)
Tac Squad (10, Rhino, Melta, Multimelta)

Assault Squad (10, jump packs, 2 flamers, Lightning Claw/Bolt Pistol sgt)
Assault Squad (10, jump packs, 2 flamers, Lightning Claw/Bolt Pistol sgt)
Assault Squad (10, jump packs, 2 flamers, Lightning Claw/Bolt Pistol sgt)

Storm Raven (TL AC/Typhoon)

2000 points on the nose. Mix up the special and sgt weapons to taste (if you're combat squading maybe go with a Plasma Cannon or Las Cannon squad for range)

Gives you 41 jump models on the table taking full use of Raven Guard tactics, a smattering of anti-AV (meltas, Lightning claws, TLAC/Tyhpoon) and a lot of harassment factor.

Just throwing out some ideas really. I'd love to try it myself!

Rorschach9 wrote:
I'm not sure how well it would do but if you like Jump infantry, what about something like this?

CT : Raven Guard

Chapter Master (Shield Eternal, Artificer, Jump Pack, Lightning claw)

Vanguard Vets (5, Jump Packs, Bolt Pistol, Lightning Claw, Stormshield on all)
Vanguard Vets (5, Jump Packs, Bolt Pistol, Lightning Claw, Stormshield on all)

Scouts (Land Speeder Storm w/ heavy flamer, Shotguns)
Tac Squad (10, Rhino, Melta, Multimelta)
Tac Squad (10, Rhino, Melta, Multimelta)

Assault Squad (10, jump packs, 2 flamers, Lightning Claw/Bolt Pistol sgt)
Assault Squad (10, jump packs, 2 flamers, Lightning Claw/Bolt Pistol sgt)
Assault Squad (10, jump packs, 2 flamers, Lightning Claw/Bolt Pistol sgt)

Storm Raven (TL AC/Typhoon)

2000 points on the nose. Mix up the special and sgt weapons to taste.


Just throwing out some ideas really. I'd love to try it myself!

This looks alot better then what OP originally put. Though I feel like with just 3 scoring units, it kinda worries me for the OP. Though with the CM and VV jumping around hopefully maybe his opponents will leave the tacs alone.

 Cptskillet wrote:

This looks alot better then what OP originally put. Though I feel like with just 3 scoring units, it kinda worries me for the OP. Though with the CM and VV jumping around hopefully maybe his opponents will leave the tacs alone.

3 to 5 Scoring units (Could combat squad the two tacs and leave the heavy weapons back on home objectives)

Not a lot of scoring, but definitely looks like it would be interesting to try out.

Ok revamped based on the suggested list

Chapter Tactics: Raven Guard

HQ:
Chapter Master - Boltgun, Artificer Armour, Shield Eternal, Lightning Claw, Jump Pack

Elites:
Vanguard Veteran Squad (5) - Storm Shield, Lightning Claw, Bolt Pistol
Sergeant - Melta Bombs, Storm Shield, Bolt Pistol, Thunder Hammer

Vanguard Veteran Squad (5) - Storm Shield, Lightning Claw, Bolt Pistol
Sergeant - Melta Bombs, Storm Shield, Bolt Pistol, Thunder Hammer

Troops:
Scout squad (5) - Shotguns, Combat Blade
Sergeant - Shotgun
Land Speeder Storm - Cerberus Launcher, Jamming Beacon, Heavy Flamer.

Tactical Squad (10) - Multi Melta
Sergeant - Lightning Claw, Bolter
Razorback - Lascannon, Twin-linked Plasma Gun

Tactical Squad (10) - Multi Melta
Sergeant - Lightning Claw, Bolter
Razorback - Lascannon, Twin-linked Plasma Gun

Fast Attack:
Assault Squad - 2x Flamer
Sergeant - Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

Assault Squad - 2x Flamer
Sergeant - Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

Heavy Support:
Stormraven Gunship - Storm Strike Missile, Twin-linked Multi Meltas, Turret mounted Twin-linked Assault Cannons

Fortifications:
Aegis Defense Line - Quad-gun

Total - 1990 pts

Basically combat squad the tactical squads and put the Multi Meltas in the Razorback and have them run up 1 flank. 1 of the remaining combat squads uses the ADL and quad-gun while the other moves up to the next closest objective and hunkers down.

the assault squads and vet squads all move up the opposite flank as the Razorbacks until they can engage.

The scouts will roll up with the razorbacks using them as LoS blockers. I'll make sure the Razorbacks are on the flank closest to their deployment objective and that will be the scouts target. The Razorbacks will break off to unload on any remaining armour to deliver the multi meltas into range.

The Stormraven will be on support detail as soon as it comes on the board. I think since all of my scoring units will be 5 man teams it will basically play around in midfield to give them something to shoot at besides my tac teams.

any other advice would be greatly appreciated

I really feel that stormravens should always have hurricane bolters, it helps quite a bit when the storm raven can shoot 12 twin-linked shots.

I'll go through the list critiquing each choice and try to give some summarising advice. Unfortunately this isn't going to be very positive so here goes:

CM a bike really is a good deal better than a jump pack on this fella. Not only are you getting +1T but also relentless. As is you're paying 40 points more than a Captain for +1 W & A as the orbital bombardment is essentially useless. I can understand you want JP for theme perhaps dropping to a Captain is the better choice. Relic blade is a terrible weapon double the points of a power maul for a weapon that is worse than a power maul against everything except 3+ armour. Take a Thunder Hammer you need Ap2 on him and that SE will help him to live long enough to strike and in later rounds against MCs that survived the first round you're now going simultaneously.

Shrike is Meh allows 1 unit to get up close but that unit is then also isolated...

Dreadnoughts are terrible now. Drop pod ones get killed by interceptor backfield ones give up FB easily. Dreads just die to quickly these days to justify their points to damage output ratio.

Vanguard are OK a couple of grav pistols can be great too. Theyare concussive so make a MC I1 before charging him . In this type of list you probably want more of them. They are much more points eefficient now than Assault Marines.

Flakk missiles are horribly inefficient and a total waste of time drop all of them. Sniper Scouts aren't great in an otherwise aggressive list though they can work as a backfield unit along with TFCs.

Tactical marines are never more than a necessary evil. In an otherwise aggressive list they have no real place at all. LSS Scouts are a much better fit. They are quick and aggressive and can help out in assault.

A assault Marines in a drop pod with nothing but bolt pistols? I don't get why you think bolt pistols are such a devastating short ranged fire weapon that you'd put 4 in a drop pod and expect it to do much. Just baffling.

Solo TFC is a bit Meh take 2 or none. Lascannon on a Storm raven??? Why just why? Why do you want it to do less damage against vehicles and infantry? Why deliberately reduce the damage output of your SR for no benefit?

Overall its got some DP stuff that could dovetail with Shrike infiltrating. But none of the DP stuff is set up for short ranged shooting which is the entire point of taking a DP and if you infiltrate shrike you have no where to put the CM. Other than that it looks like a random collection of models with no real plan. What type of list do you want this to be? To be competitive with marines you have to streamline the list to do 1 thing to the exclusion of all others as they have such generalist units. So what do you want it to be and then take units that support that goal.

If you want an assault based list take assault units. Ideally fast ones that arrive at the same/similar time. But you'll need AT shooting to support that.

Thanks fling, anything to add on the re-vamped list? like my original post says I haven't played Marines since 3rd never even started looking at them till a few days ago. I'm still trying to figure out what works and what doesn't. This is also a pre-purchase list so I don't have a chance to play with any of it.

My only army right now is Tau so I was looking for something that plays quite differently from them so an assault based army for 2000pts ideally.

I'm aware assault isn't as good in this edition but I work to much to play tournaments so its just friendly (we're both pretty competitive) games between ourselves and occasionally a couple other friends. I don't need the list to be a tournament grade winner but something that can win would be nice and if its a bit fluffy all the better.

any further C&C would be appreciated

Well if you're open to a whole new revamped list, a rhino rush can be a pretty good raven guard list.
Mass tactical marines in rhinos and scout then forward right next to the opponent.
Just food for thought

Raven guard work, I play them, you need to put power lances in the vets and take tanked up chapter masters it's very viable.

where do I find power lances? I'm using battlescribe to make the list and that doesn't seem to be an option. what do the lances do? what's their point cost?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
since scouts are better you say would it be better to do

Troops:
5x Scouts - Shotguns
Land Speeder Storm - Heavy Flamer

5x Scouts - Shotguns
Land Speeder Storm - Heavy Flamer

5x Scouts - Bolters
Land Speeder Storm - Multi Melta

5x Scouts - Bolters
Land Speeder Storm - Multi Melta

8x Tactical Marines - Multi Melta
Sergeant - Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Razorback - Heavy Flamer

It gives me more scoring units to work with is more in your face, and I get an extra Melta out of it... still have 3 points to play with or I would be willing to drop the tac squad to make adjustments. seems more fluffy for RG as well to use more scouts.

Look in the brb under power weapons for power lance stats.

I wouldn't bother with the tactical marines if you've already got 4 scoring units. So let's look at each squad and what it does:

So we have a heavy flamer and large blast blind on 2 LSSs so that means horde control and being open topped (and to utilise the benefit of the blind) you'll be assaulting from it. You've taken shotguns which you can use to assault. That makes sense though BP & CCW might be a better fit (you don't want to be killing yourself out of assault range). What other upgrades would you think would be useful for a horde control assault unit?

Then we have the MM LSSs. So tank hunting assault platform. You currently have 1 Bs3 MM shot so pretty unlikely to actually kill a vehicle. The guys riding inside have boltguns which prevents them from assaulting. So again shotguns or BP+CCWs seems the obvious choice. And again what other upgrades would help this unit achieve its job?

I could give the sergeant melta bombs, thunder hammer/power fist, or a grav-pistol. for an easier time with armour I think (not sure how well grav works on vehicles)

As for more horde control I don't see the scouts having more options for that.

Could change all the scouts to an assault style with the flamer and BP/CCW then drop the tac squad and 1 scout team for something with some more power. That would leave me a little bit light on the troop selections though. Plus with them being scouts and more assaulty I think that might be a bad idea.

Melta bombs, power fist or Maul, Veteran upgrade gets him an extra swing with it and don't forget the staple of a tac sergeant the combi!

So for horde control a combi-flamer is a great idea. Also Veteran upgrade on the Sergeant means more attacks whilst a power maul gives him a decent chance to kill an Ork Nob in a challenge. Plus 4 S6 attacks on the charge hurts a horde unit.

I think 4 LSS scouts units is enough scoring at this level if there's plenty of threat elsewhere in the list. But you could just get a 5th or even 6th unit if you're worried (I generally play with very few troops in this edition).