Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So after watching some Batreps where people who've been playing Taudar have had insane shooting and other unique (for lack of a better word) luxuries... I've began to wonder what the counter to this is. Do you take Dark Eldar with Eldar allies and shoot everything with poisoned guns and low AP? Kind of like beating someone at their own game, only different? Lots of little guys with a horde effect? Is it a gunline vs gunline and whoever hits the most wins first? I can't think that space marines with high saves, low model counts can be very effective. And I've seen that Nids get hunted for their synapse until all the little nids no longer have a big brother. No one around here is playing them yet......but I think it's only a matter of time.

There really isn't a counter other than Chaos Demons.

Seer Council Deldar.

Drop pod Rune Priest-spam Space Wolves.

White Scars scouting space marines.

Mechdar.


These are some of the armies that can potentially give Taudar problems.

Nids have the ability to be a good counter now for The Taudar lists I have seen. People are just unwilling to let go of their preconceptions about what is good and what is bad. Wish I lived closer to Vegas.

 Gloomfang wrote:
Nids have the ability to be a good counter now for The Taudar lists I have seen. People are just unwilling to let go of their preconceptions about what is good and what is bad. Wish I lived closer to Vegas.

Mawloc?

My arty-heavy DKoK+ Skyshield stupidity has worked well. 1-2x medusa platforms with BB shells on a skyshield in the middle of the map gives me range of 90% of the map and means that any serpent that drops shields dies that turn. They really cant hurt the arty in return, with T7 and a 4++ save. General infantry are pretty resiliant at 10-12 ppm for a 4+ save, and i run a pretty large quantity of troops since the grens at 12ppm come with hotshot lasguns.

In return, i really cant deal with riptides. I can deal with most of the army via the threat of insta-gibbing serpents to mitigate early game damage, then out-last them with executioners and artillery. Since DKoK dont take leadership from shooting casualties, i can keep parts of squads alive quite easily and hide them from sight to cap objectives late game.

If you play SM just drop 3/4 units of sternguard on them if its riptides or WKS take grav guns, if its broadsides/suites/tanks take meltas there is nothing in this game which can deal with 40 sternguard hitting you in the balls.

My BA tabled a marine list with 30 Sternguard. Sternguard cost too much to be as good as you claim. Oh, yeah, there's bubblewrapping, too.

 zephoid wrote:
My arty-heavy DKoK+ Skyshield stupidity has worked well. 1-2x medusa platforms with BB shells on a skyshield in the middle of the map gives me range of 90% of the map and means that any serpent that drops shields dies that turn. They really cant hurt the arty in return, with T7 and a 4++ save. General infantry are pretty resiliant at 10-12 ppm for a 4+ save, and i run a pretty large quantity of troops since the grens at 12ppm come with hotshot lasguns.

In return, i really cant deal with riptides. I can deal with most of the army via the threat of insta-gibbing serpents to mitigate early game damage, then out-last them with executioners and artillery. Since DKoK dont take leadership from shooting casualties, i can keep parts of squads alive quite easily and hide them from sight to cap objectives late game.

I had a similar idea, but swap in a Vanquisher for Executioner to try and deal with riptides.

Grimm_81 wrote:

 Gloomfang wrote:
Nids have the ability to be a good counter now for The Taudar lists I have seen. People are just unwilling to let go of their preconceptions about what is good and what is bad. Wish I lived closer to Vegas.

Mawloc?

Death leaper assassin brood, biovores, stealers with broodlords, shrikes and a few.other things.

1) Shut down the farseer.
2) Kill the marker lights.
3) Disperse the units or tie them up.

Battlewagon orkses are doing good vs taudar. Though, you really have to outplay an opponent. See, if u're not running cheezy lists you need brainz to win.

 Arbiter wrote:
If you play SM just drop 3/4 units of sternguard on them if its riptides or WKS take grav guns, if its broadsides/suites/tanks take meltas there is nothing in this game which can deal with 40 sternguard hitting you in the balls.

10 Sternguard firing combi-grav at a Riptide on average won't kill it if it's either got FNP or the 3++ up. It's also 365 points per pod. Further, you're going to have to live through Interceptor first.

 Gloomfang wrote:

Grimm_81 wrote:

 Gloomfang wrote:
Nids have the ability to be a good counter now for The Taudar lists I have seen. People are just unwilling to let go of their preconceptions about what is good and what is bad. Wish I lived closer to Vegas.

Mawloc?

Death leaper assassin brood, biovores, stealers with broodlords, shrikes and a few.other things.

1) Shut down the farseer.
2) Kill the marker lights.
3) Disperse the units or tie them up.

So play Russian Roulette, banking everything on terrain and the skill of your opponent while using a tailored list with little to no mobility? Sounds like a typical Tyranid list for me !

Dark Eldar Meq msu works a treat. Too many targets for them to effectively remove enough models a turn to make too much of a dent.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Gloomfang wrote:
Death leaper assassin brood, biovores, stealers with broodlords, shrikes and a few.other things.

1) Shut down the farseer.
2) Kill the marker lights.
3) Disperse the units or tie them up.

So play Russian Roulette, banking everything on terrain and the skill of your opponent while using a tailored list with little to no mobility? Sounds like a typical Tyranid list for me !

Not sure how that is Russian Roulette. The list doesn't really count on terrain or skill of the opponent. I would also take the list against any opponent as it is built around board control and containment.

It is also the fastest and most mobile list I have ever built.

At 1850 i think that it can even be tried by GK (with SW allies):
- Coteaz
- 4 * 3 acolytes in psyback (in reserve, to keep as troops)
- 3 DK with teleporter and heavy incinerator
- 2 RPriests with Jaws
- 2 * 10 GH with melta in pods
- 8 WG with combi-melta in drop pod

On first turn you have 2 of your pods (including the 2 RPriests) as well as 3 DK in enemy lines.
You can burn any pathfinder there, the drones from broadsides if necessary and the 2 RPriests have a good chance of taking care of some riptides/broadsides, helped afterwards by all the melta.

Any idea on the viability?

 Gloomfang wrote:

Not sure how that is Russian Roulette. The list doesn't really count on terrain or skill of the opponent. I would also take the list against any opponent as it is built around board control and containment.

You load your "pressure bullet", spin the chamber and hand the gun to your opponent. If he is inexperienced then he will take it and you can pray for your bullet to hit home. If he is a seasoned player then he will just throw your gun into the thrash. You can't force him to play with you with those wet-toilet paper units: he can just layer his defenses and by the time you crack him open you will lose the majority of your offensive units and you are screwed. Or better yet, he applies some counter-pressure, and you are screwed.

And then you get onto the board with little to no area terrain/LoS blockers and you are screwed, regardless of your opponent.

And after you deploy your infiltrators, your pressure units (Lictors, Genestealers) will move only 6" while most of your targets will move 12+", mostly ignoring terrain. That's hardly good news for mobility.

I totally disagre with your assessment of "pressure". Applying pressure is when you do something that will force a reaction from your opponent. As you know that there are a set number of ways your opponet can react you can position yourself to take advantage of that reaction (and if done properly apply even more pressure).

So I put a bunch of lictors in my opponent's deployment zone. I am pretty sure they will:
a) Shoot at them
b) Move away and shoot them
or
c) Assault them

Most people will probably choose b.

Now knowking that I also take genestealers and place them in an area where I think I can charge the units if they move away from the lictor.
So now my foe has a new list of choices:

a) Stand and shoot the lictor and risk not killing it and getting assaulted.
b) Move and shoot the lictor and risk getting assaulted by the genestealers
c) Move and shoot the genestealers and risk getting assaulted by the lictor.
d) Assault the lictor and risk getting charged by the genestealers.
e) move the unit in some way that it can not really harm my units, but protects it's own unit.

You need to make a list of suboptimal choices for your opponent to make. It is really hard to do well and requires knowing how to read deployment placements extreamly well.

Or he can marker light the lictor kill it with no problems then use serpent shields to zap fry the genestealers, laugh at you lobbing up squishy targets and keep right on shooting the rest of your army.

 Aftersong wrote:
Or he can marker light the lictor kill it with no problems then use serpent shields to zap fry the genestealers, laugh at you lobbing up squishy targets and keep right on shooting the rest of your army.

Pretty much exactly this.

There isn't really a secret always win strategy. My overall strategy that seems to work well against Taudar is close fast, close all at once, and overwhelm the opponent before they can weaken me too much.

Oh, and multi charge the riptide and a squishy.

 Gloomfang wrote:

Grimm_81 wrote:

 Gloomfang wrote:
Nids have the ability to be a good counter now for The Taudar lists I have seen. People are just unwilling to let go of their preconceptions about what is good and what is bad. Wish I lived closer to Vegas.

Mawloc?

Death leaper assassin brood, biovores, stealers with broodlords, shrikes and a few.other things.

1) Shut down the farseer.
2) Kill the marker lights.
3) Disperse the units or tie them up.

My main army is Tyranids and my main opponents play Tau and I'd just like to chime in that Lictors and Genestealers get shredded so fast it's not even funny. Markerlights removing cover and every gun in the codex ignoring their armour saves, wounding on 3s/2s and most likely being rapid fire or having more than one shot at the range you infiltrated too means you just lost 400 - 600 points of Tyranids against your hard counter on turn 1. Yeah sounds like a great idea... and on the rare occasion you even get a chance to assault Tau with either of them you won't be surviving over watch. I'd rather spend those points on a MC deathstar that they also "have to shoot at" but can actually shoot back and survive over watch.

I've used Mawlocs 3 times since the new dex and they're just too unreliable and take a slot in the FOC that is just too valuable.

Don't waste points on Shrikes as they just melt to Tau. Use the points on Gargoyles to move with your Flyrants that way you don't care if your 6 point flying bats get hosed down.

Biovores are great.

Another thing I find irritating is that whenever I get a Psychic power off that lowers their BS skill or makes them take a pinning test they just use marker lights to ignore the effects for that turn.....

Things I have had success with against Tau are Tyrannofex, Tervigon, Exocrine balls with Dakkafexes sometimes thrown in for good measure. You race up the field with your Gargoyles and Flyrants while this massive mob of death is in tow. They're forced to shoot the Gargoyles because they will get tar-pitted if they don't and while you will most likely lose them all by that point their job is done. Exocrines melt crisis suits and Tyranofexes clear out pathfinders like there is no tomorrow and both can handle a Riptide in CC. They naturally try to kill the Tervigon instead of the other beasties that can pour out the Dakka but this is no easy feat and gives you a turn or 2 to get into their lines.