Leman Russ Survivability, or "General Leman Russ Tactics"

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**Mjau**

I am a total noob when it comes to playing warhammer, so please be kind.

Anyway, I have roughly 2000 points of Imperial Guard, with three LMBTs.

The thing that usually happens 1 to 2 turns into any game is that my LMBTs are completely obliterated (against Blood Angels, Tau, Orks, Dark Eldar and Necron), leaving my vets and sentinels on their own. (Altough my vets usually do a suprisingly good job in CC after they get assaulted >_>.)
And as far as I know, LMBTs are supposed to be pretty hard to kill, so I'm assuming I'm doing something wrong x). My LMBTs are set up with the bare minimum, with just the battle cannon and the front heavy bolter.

What am I doing wrong

?

**Likan Wolfsheim**

General consensus is that the bog-standard Battle Cannon Russ punches too far below its weight to be worthwhile. 6th Edition is very much a kill-or-be-killed game, so I'd recommend taking bare Demolishers and/or bolter sponson Exterminators depending on the roles you already have covered by the rest of your army. Also, it would be useful to know exactly how those armies are killing all your tanks.

In general, Dark Eldar are going to ignore much of the Russ' survivability because their Lances count AV13 and AV14 as AV12--nothing much you can do there other than trying to keep the tanks out of range and hide them in cover or something. I'm very surprised that Orks are able to kill the tanks within a couple turns--their shooting usually isn't very tank-busting and the tank's range is so good that they should be spending a lot of time trying to get to assault.

Anyways, tell us more about the tools/tactics your enemies are employing to pop your tanks so quickly. Then we'll hopefully be able to figure out how to keep the tanks alive.

**Grimskul**

Well for one thing is that LRBT plain and bare are lacklustre and don't scale well in higher point games as by that level most armies are quite capable of handling AV14 vehicles, especially ones that are as slow as yours and only have AV10 rears.

Leman Russes in particular require a lot of support from infantry to assure they don't get caught in close combat. Do you use any infantry platoon squads? A common tactic is to "bubble-wrap" (so basically surround it) LR tanks with enough of them to prevent/block any sneaky units from assaulting them and sometimes (depending on how many are covering the tank) often giving it a cover save from shooting.

Also for real damage output it's better to specialize the Leman Russes into better variants than the classic one in larger point games as the battle cannon, while deadly in its own right, just doesn't do enough damage to targets at that points level since the opponent normally has enough quantity or quality for your battle cannons not to impact them sufficiently. Also with the changes to lumbering behemoth you can only snapshot the rest of your weapons (including sponsons) so it neuters the rest of your potential firepower.

Some of the most common loadouts nowadays are these:

LR Executioner with plasma sponsons + lascannon hull gun. Mainly an anti-heavy infantry based tank but can also handily take down normal infantry in a pinch. Also with the sheer blast templates and AP2 you can also deal with monstrous creatures and light vehicles to a lesser degree. Most expensive tank but arguably the one with the most damage output and versatility. Kiss any MEQ or TEQ you see unlucky enough to be in the open goodbye.

LR Punisher w/3 HB upgrades, Super anti-infantry tank, it can pour out a butt-ton of 29 S5 shots every turn. Devastates hordes and can really put the wounds on even heavily armoured units like terminators due to the sheer amount of wounds you'll put on them. They can also handily glance the crap out of light vehicles but are best used to whittle down infantry units. Pask is optional but does provide not only BS4 to allow even more shots to hit but also give more utility by making all the guns essentially S6 against vehicles/monstrous creatures and thereby make it even more useful.

LR Exterminator w/3 HB upgrades, a sort of a cross between the Punisher and the Eradicator, this is arguably one of the most versatile/points efficient loadouts as it has a reliable main turret due to it being twin-linked and having 4 S7 AP4 shots so it can hurt most things in the game (and more importantly fliers) and can handle both infantry and light-medium vehicles.

LR Vanquisher (often taken with Pask for BS4) w/Lascannon, used for anti-tank/monstrous creature purposes it is the best long-ranged option the IG has to offer. Again it depends on what armies you face so it is not necessarily the best all-comers tank but fits into the requisite role of anti-tank/MC in an army that lacks one.

All of these do better than a Leman Russ in a particular job and are able to exploit the heavy rule of the tank to allow them shoot all their weapons at full BS.

In the case where you have to stick with your plain leman russes, it may be a factor of focus firing on a single unit with all the russes rather than spreading out your fire. Make sure you prioritize the targets with the highest level of threat your tanks can handle and overwhelm them with pie plates out the wazoo.

**Sir Arun**

An an IG player you'd want to prioritize taking out the enemy's AT units, specifically those who can punch through AV14. Throw everything you have at them, even if juicier targets are closer.

Once that is out of the picture, your LRBTs can mop up for the rest of the game, provided you make sure their rear AV is protected (or has a field of fire protecting it) and nobody with high S weapons gets into CC

**Ravajaxe**

Hello.

What am I doing wrong ?

Many things probably. Leman Russ are supposed to be hard to destroy vehicles, in fact one of the few remaining non-flier vehicles that are worth playing in 6th edition.
First you should keep them hard to reach from your opponent : out of half range from meltaguns, and out of charge threat from specialised assaulters.
So keep them in back field as long as they can trace interesting lines of fire, and put some sort of screening unit to block enemy offensive.
Example : 20-man or 30-man blob squad with power weapons and commissar, which can screen 2 LRBT easily.
Take cover from buildings and hills whenever possible.

Then, your weapon load-out. Bare LRBT having the average battle cannon, are not very threatening. They miss too often, opponent can spread out his troops, etc...
Most of all, paying 150 points is an expensive base cost, Leman Russ hull comes with drawbacks, but also with the advantage of shooting every weapon.
In this context, what you want is pack as many weapons as would reasonably fit on this hull, and fire everything each turn at full BS.
So avoid ordnance weapons. Yes, the good old rusty trusty LRBT configuration is not interesting anymore.
If you are not convinced, go look at what other codices (xenos) have for similar costs.

Examples of nice and useful configurations in 6th ed context :
* Vanquisher with laser cannon (occasionally with plasma or melta sponsons).
* Executioner with laser cannon (occasionally with plasma sponsons, but watch out cost).
* Executioner + 3 HB.
* Exterminator + 3 HB.
* Eradicator + 3 HB.

Play carefully with that info, it should boost your success rate.

**zephoid**

run 2x executioners behind an ADL with 2x prescience inqusitors and watch the casualties mount. Even melta guns cant deal with LR behind ADLs with any reliable success. Between the necessity to hit (66%) get a 7 to pen (56% of the time), and a 4+ cover save (50%) give you only a 1 in 6 chance of actually penning a LRB. I'd take those odds, considering a melta wont live past the next turn that close to a executioner.

For AT, let the vendettas and suicide-melta squads take that job. None of the LRs are viable AT options.

**Paradigm**

From my IG tactics article:

I Wrote:
Leman Russ Squadron:
The Leman Russ is the bread and butter of the Heavy Support section, providing fire support for foot-guard, performing the heavy lifting in a mech list, and giving tough, reliable on-the-ground presence for aircav. The real strength of the Russ, though, is that it has a variant for every occasion. Following changes to the official FAQ, all Russ variants gained the Heavy rule, allowing them to always count as stationary when firing weapons. This replacement of Lumbering Behemoth hurt the effectiveness of a couple of variants, but increased the usefulness of most. If running them in squadrons, I advise you to keep the same loadout for every tank in the squadron.

Leman Russ Battle Tank: The most notable victim of the FAQ, with the Ordnance rule on its battle cannon meaning it must fire snap-shots from all other weapons. This relegates the use of sponsons on this tank, narrowing target range it can hurt. The primary target for the LRBT is Marines out of cover, as against other targets it is generally outperformed. The one advantage of this tank is the lack of sponsons allowing it to be kept cheap, and 150 points for a S8 AP3 Large Blast weapon on an AV14 chassis is not to be sniffed at if you're tight for points.

Leman Russ Exterminator: This variant is possibly the best for a cheap, all-round performer. With the simple addition of Heavy Bolter sponsons, this tank can put out a large volume of shots to threaten medium and light infantry, knock hull points of light vehicles, and potentially even hit fliers. For even more versatility, add a lascannon for help against AV12+.

Leman Russ Vanquisher: This tank at first glance seems single-minded. With a S8 gun that rolls 2d6 for armour penetration, it is a tank killer beyond compare in a Guard army, and with the addition of a lascannon, it is even more threatening. However, the Vanquisher can also be incredibly versatile with the right sponsons. Plasma Cannons give it even more AP2 fire-power, and increase its threat to Monstrous Creatures and enemies with 2+ saves, and can therefore be incredibly valuable. Although it is rather expensive, there are few tanks better for a take-all-comers list than a Vanquisher with lascannon and Plasma Cannons.

Leman Russ Eradicator: The Eradicator offers what is essentially a lighter version of the LRBT, able to target medium infantry, but also to ignore cover. It can also take sponsons that can fire effectively, unlike the LRBT, and I would suggest either Heavy Bolters, for the matching AP (which is lethal to xenos armies), or Plasma Cannons if you are worried about Marines. However, if the latter is true, you are probably better off with a Vanquisher, LRBT, or Executioner.

Leman Russ Demolisher: This tank is, simply put, scary. Admittedly, it suffered in the same way as the LRBT from the FAQ, but the Demolisher was never about the sponsons. Very few things in the game can drop a S10 AP2 Large Blast, which makes the Demolisher a threat to almost anything bar fliers. The price you pay for this fearsome armament, aside from the increased points cost, is range. The Demolisher lacks the ability of its cousins to sit back and shoot, instead needing to advance to get maximum use from its weapon. Therefore, they are best reserved for an aggressive list, and work well in pair. They are great as a threat to force on your opponent, who will have no choice but to deal with it, and can do a lot of damage.

Leman Russ Punisher: Significantly more expensive and specialised that most other Russes, the Punisher seems, on paper, to be absolute death to any infantry. While it is undoubtedly effective, especially with Heavy Bolter sponsons, the range is again a limiting factor, and BS3 also means half the shots will miss. That said, it can still be a solid investment against infantry-heavy armies, and is good for forcing saves on Monstrous Creatures. They also suffer from being an anti-infantry tank in an anti-infantry army, so their usefulness is limited.

Leman Russ Executioner: The Executioner is one of the best 'specialisation' tanks before upgrades are added, able to fire 3 plasma blasts with no risk of Gets Hot. Like the Demolisher, though, the raw power is offset by increased cost, and your targets are limited to 2+/3+ save infantry and Monstrous Creatures, as against any other target, other tanks do the job better and cheaper. Like the LRBT, take one if you see a lot of marines, if not, then take something else. I'd also advise against sponsons, 3 plasma blasts should kill most things, and the Executioner is expensive enough as it is.

Hope that helps sum things up regarding the variants.

As for the general tactics, the main points have all already been mentioned. Keep them back if you can, make sure you face your front armour towards the biggest threats, and keep them in cover wherever possible. Bubble-wrap them with guardsmen and make sure you're picking targets well. Make sure you bring multiples to force the opponent to split their AT firepower.

**Mr.Omega**

If you've got two and your opponent doesn't have AT blasts, you can create a larger wall of AV14 by placing them side by side that makes side armour shots on both harder. Sentinels can give them 5+ obstruction cover and an anti-charge blanket, though this of questionable points efficiency.

If you get shaken/stunned, or can't fire due to lack of valuable targets but you're faced with a threat pop smoke. I always kick myself because I usually forget.

Other than that, always try to grab that 5+ cover and intercept incoming short range AT wit counter assault units like Mech Vets.

**tankboy145**

Well for starters as others have said the standard russ isnt exaclty great. I like it as its cheap and hard to deal with while mounting a decent cannon. But try using some other variants.

Suggestions

Vanquisher with lascannon and Multimelta or plasma cannon sponsons-My preferred tank of use.

Executioner with plasma cannon sponsons and a lascannon

Eradicator with 3 heavy bolters all around

Exterminator with either 3 heavy boltters around or lascannon with Multimelta sponsons

Tactics is to try and keep the tanks in some sort of cover. Use your vets as close support, if the enemy gets close have the vets cut the enemy off. If you run foot guard use the foot guys to bubble wrap and surround your tank so the enemy cant get into assault or melta range.

Hope this helps

**Mjau**

Thanks for all the great tips everyone!

Also, about the Orks, I might have been mistaken about them x).

So basically I should ditch the LRBT setup, wrap them in infantry and add more specialized weapons?

The first idea that comes to mind is three squads, one anti-tank (vanquishers with lascannon?), one anti-light infantry (punisher with heavy bolters) and one all-around with (plasma with plasma and more plasma?). Two tanks in each squad.

Yes/no/maybe?

**Zengu**

Mjau wrote:
Thanks for all the great tips everyone!

Also, about the Orks, I might have been mistaken about them x).

So basically I should ditch the LRBT setup, wrap them in infantry and add more specialized weapons?

The first idea that comes to mind is three squads, one anti-tank (vanquishers with lascannon?), one anti-light infantry (punisher with heavy bolters) and one all-around with (plasma with plasma and more plasma?). Two tanks in each squad.

Yes/no/maybe?

For light infantry I would go with an exterminator because it cheaper and while it does have as many shots its stronger. Plasma is plasma but I am still up in the air about side sponsons because I'm not a fan of gets a glance on a tank for no reason. While its unavoidable in higher point games tank in squads are iffy. If one gives assaulted and goes boom any of the remaining hits goes to the next tank.

**Mjau**

Zengu wrote:

For light infantry I would go with a exterminator because it cheaper and while it does have as many shots its stronger. Plasma is plasma but I am still up in the air about side sponsons because I'm not a fan of gets a glance on a tank for no reason. While its unavoidable in higher point games tank in squads are iffy. If one gives assaulted and goes boom any of the remaining hits goes to the next tank.

Hmm, my experience with autocannons isn't that great but I'll give it a try!

Ok so what whould you choose instead of plasma sponsons?

Also, the vanquisher.. I actually tried it a few games and sure, it does tons of damage but, as someone said earlier, the tank-crew has BS3 so it misses half of its shots, more or less... And since it isn't a AoE weapon it won't hit "a little" either x).

**Likan Wolfsheim**

Zengu wrote:
Mjau wrote:
Thanks for all the great tips everyone!

Also, about the Orks, I might have been mistaken about them x).

So basically I should ditch the LRBT setup, wrap them in infantry and add more specialized weapons?

The first idea that comes to mind is three squads, one anti-tank (vanquishers with lascannon?), one anti-light infantry (punisher with heavy bolters) and one all-around with (plasma with plasma and more plasma?). Two tanks in each squad.

Yes/no/maybe?

For light infantry I would go with an exterminator because it cheaper and while it does have as many shots its stronger. Plasma is plasma but I am still up in the air about side sponsons because I'm not a fan of gets a glance on a tank for no reason. While its unavoidable in higher point games tank in squads are iffy. If one gives assaulted and goes boom any of the remaining hits goes to the next tank.

Just something to point out: the Executioner Plasma Cannon does not have Get's Hot! Three plasma blasts from just the main gun are pretty damn great. And the weapon is Heavy, meaning you can slam cheap bolters on the chassis for protection against Weapon Destroyed results (and some added damage).

**Mjau**

Likan Wolfsheim wrote:

Just something to point out: the Executioner Plasma Cannon does not have Get's Hot! Three plasma blasts from just the main gun are pretty damn great. And the weapon is Heavy, meaning you can slam cheap bolters on the chassis for protection against Weapon Destroyed results (and some added damage).

That sounds perfectly resonable!

**Zengu**

So is the Demolisher not as good as it once was because of its limited range would you say?

**Peregrine**

Zengu wrote:
So is the Demolisher not as good as it once was because of its limited range would you say?

It can be good, but the OP is already having trouble with fast assault units killing their tanks, so taking a tank that has to move up close to do anything is probably not going to help them very much.

**koooaei**

Demolisher has 11 back armor. So as punisher and executioner iirc.

Personally i use an exterminator with a lazcannon, hb sponsons and pask. It costs a hell lot of 235 pts but since i run orkses i really need that tac reliable tank that can hurt almost anything including flyers. But in your lists you can go more specialised. Take any you feel is better for you. They're all good but i prefer exterminator, eradicator and demolisher. And not going down from fast assaulty enemies is not really a tank's job. Use infantry and terrain to protect it.

**Bonde**

Since 6th edition came out, I have become increasingly fond of the Vanquisher with Pask and a Lascannon. It can hurt AV14 and MC's reliably at long range, something that few other units in the Codex can do. It is especially important if you don't like to bring Vendettas.

**Sir Arun**

Bonde wrote:
Since 6th edition came out, I have become increasingly fond of the Vanquisher with Pask and a Lascannon. It can hurt AV14 and MC's reliably at long range, something that few other units in the Codex can do. It is especially important if you don't like to bring Vendettas.

If you take Beasthunter shells, you can even take out his MC in 1 turn of shooting.

**Freakazoitt**

Vanquisher with Pask, lascannon and multimeltas almost same costs as Land Raider. And Land Raider much more survivable 14 armor around (sadly or not, less tough as in 5th edition rules). So, we can use some with Inquisition slot.

2 Leman Russes for defence inside Aegis
2 Land Raiders as baran with cheap tank, maybe 2 Thunderers. And pair or three Chimera meltavets/flamervets to take hold objectives and guard tanks from hand-to-hand.

**DOOMONYOU**

If your worried about survivability Camo netting and an Aegis wall nets you a 3+ cover save, more if night fighting is in.

**Mjau**

Haha I'm assuming I can't run Pask in all tanks

. Would have been great though, or something to boost the BS. I'm kinda scared of any IG-weapon that isn't AoE or has multiple shots, they tend to miss...

**More Dakka**

AV14 is very durable and I wouldn't worry about the survivable of squadroned LR tanks, esp the siege variants.

I've been playing an IA1 Armored Fist company with 6 LR and they take a while to put down.

Don't worry about lance weapons. They're about as good as a S10 weapon, which is only a 50/50 chance to even get a glance/pen. I'm not saying ignore them, kill them first, but it's not doom and gloom facing them.

Like others have pointed out it's really the armament you have to worry about since what good is a 200+ point AV14 chassis if it can't kill anything?

If you're stuck with the IG Codex variants then Demolisher and Executioner are my faves, hard hitting, and won't take crap from anyone. Personally I use my LR squads (2 of 2 normally) as the big distraction, while my ordinance batteries and Vendettas are the true-killers in most of my games.

**tankboy145**

Mjau wrote:
Zengu wrote:

For light infantry I would go with a exterminator because it cheaper and while it does have as many shots its stronger. Plasma is plasma but I am still up in the air about side sponsons because I'm not a fan of gets a glance on a tank for no reason. While its unavoidable in higher point games tank in squads are iffy. If one gives assaulted and goes boom any of the remaining hits goes to the next tank.

Hmm, my experience with autocannons isn't that great but I'll give it a try!

Ok so what whould you choose instead of plasma sponsons?

Also, the vanquisher.. I actually tried it a few games and sure, it does tons of damage but, as someone said earlier, the tank-crew has BS3 so it misses half of its shots, more or less... And since it isn't a AoE weapon it won't hit "a little" either x).

If you think a vanquisher with lascannon isnt good enough then throw on some MM sponsons or plasma cannon sponsons. I roll with a vanquisher kitted out one of those ways in every game I play and it does well for me. Also for the plasma sponsons you have to roll a 1 and then a 1,2,3 to lose a hull point. Usually it doesnt happen often to me unless I have loads of plasma but if you have a ton of plasma then probably best to go with MM then. The plasma is nice because not everyone spaces the whole 2" apart so when they dont those plasma blasts can allow your vanq to do more damage then 4 solid shots or even just 2 if you run it with just the Lascannon.

**Zengu**

tankboy145 wrote:
Mjau wrote:
Zengu wrote:

For light infantry I would go with a exterminator because it cheaper and while it does have as many shots its stronger. Plasma is plasma but I am still up in the air about side sponsons because I'm not a fan of gets a glance on a tank for no reason. While its unavoidable in higher point games tank in squads are iffy. If one gives assaulted and goes boom any of the remaining hits goes to the next tank.

Hmm, my experience with autocannons isn't that great but I'll give it a try!

Ok so what whould you choose instead of plasma sponsons?

Also, the vanquisher.. I actually tried it a few games and sure, it does tons of damage but, as someone said earlier, the tank-crew has BS3 so it misses half of its shots, more or less... And since it isn't a AoE weapon it won't hit "a little" either x).

If you think a vanquisher with lascannon isnt good enough then throw on some MM sponsons or plasma cannon sponsons. I roll with a vanquisher kitted out one of those ways in every game I play and it does well for me. Also for the plasma sponsons you have to roll a 1 and then a 1,2,3 to lose a hull point. Usually it doesnt happen often to me unless I have loads of plasma but if you have a ton of plasma then probably best to go with MM then. The plasma is nice because not everyone spaces the whole 2" apart so when they dont those plasma blasts can allow your vanq to do more damage then 4 solid shots or even just 2 if you run it with just the Lascannon.

Im really glad you pointed that out I thought it auto glance because I failed to read the hole thight

. That makes me fell a lot warmer to plasma on tanks! I think side plasma guns could be very useable since there's a safety net there. Also while its not a sure thing you could try and get the "Conqueror of cities " warlord trait if your playing in ruins have your tanks 25% or more hidden and have cammo netting to get a 2+ cover save if I did my math write and they all stack. Not the easiest thing to pull off but it would be fun.

**tankboy145**

1 in 6 chance to overheat then a 50% chance to lose a hull point. Not terrible but if your lacking plasma its a pretty good option, but I would still take the plasma or melta sponsons just to increase the killing and threatening power of the tank.