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Do we ever see the Borg killed by Kinetic weapons other than in the God awful Next Gen films?

Considering that the shields in Star Trek often block physical projectiles I don't think it is out of the question that the Borg would be able to repel boarding actions and kinetic weaponry. They'd probably be able to shoot out the larger munitions with their multiple phaser banks.

Is the Silentium Flood the Precursors, or is it the Flood cut off from what they are an avatar for? Because there's a BIG difference between the Flood in the Halo games and the Flood during the Forerunner-Human War about 10,000 (IIRC, give or take some) years prior to the events in Halo.

For example, Silentium Flood (which are just the Precursors) are eldritch abominations comparable to the C'tan capable of just balatant space magic empires like the Tau, Imperium, Eldar, Orks, and Tyranids would have zero defense against.

The Protoss meanwhile aren't much, but the Beast will stomp everyone unless immediately killed, as it's scrapcode on steroids.

I do agree that borg and flod does not have much experience with the warp. This could get interesting.

Although somebody pointed out how the flood contamination was it did sound a lot like how the enslavers drove the necrons away.

Some interesting races from the doctor universe. Daleks and/or time lords could be interesting. Cybermen would not be so incredible.

 Niiai wrote:
Psiensis why do you take suck offense when somebody have different interpetation then you?

The flood and the Borg might not atract the atension of space marines. It would just be some other local menance until they got some traction. The flood could easaly travel from planet to planet undetected for quite some time like the genestealers. The borg would do hit and run attacks until it had good intel on your defenses. That is even asuming they come in contact with imperial froces. If the flood came into contact with orks or if the d. Eldars veponiced it good grief.

Also leo atraidies is not like the emperor. The emperor planed good and failed at the finishline. Leo foresaw all and sacwfised all on the golden path, he would be recruited by the cabal.

It's not offense. Though I should point out that these kinds of debates crop up once a week or so, and they always end the same way. That is, as this is a 40K board, then the 40K factions always win. If this was a Halo board, or a Star Trek or Star Wars board, then those factions would win, it's the nature of fandoms.

But when people start moving the goalposts or changing the parameters of the previously-presented scenario, that gets annoying, because someone (whether it's me or not, I don't care) posts the reasons why the 40K verse would roflstomp them, and then someone comes in with a "but IF..." scenario that basically disregards what was previously posted, and changes the scope of the entire comparison.

Save they aren't really zombies. They're a biological entity that consumes you into the gestalt whole and then spins out specialized infection hosts. Very much like the Tyranids consuming all organic matter. Super space Ebola is nothing vs. a 25,000 light year weapon. It's a shot gun vs an atomic bomb in scale and capacity to put down the flood.

If we move them as a faction, you do have a galaxy, or soon to be galaxy spanning race. As of Halo 4, it is only the detonation of the Halo which stops them as they converge on it to stop it from going active and wiping it out again. So, given that if you pull them across, they'd already be getting close to sector sized, the 40k universe is totally FUBAR as the flood now warp jumps across the galaxy with ease, consuming everything and multiplying faster than even tyranids or orks

And then they meet Lucius and they're fethed. Or the Enslavers, and they're fethed. Or the Necrons, and they're *really* fethed. Or Nugle, and they are now his bishes. The Flood, themselves, don't have light-year wide bombs. If they did, they wouldn't need the zombies (and call them whatever you like, they're zombies. In space.) Those were weapons used to stop them. We've seen that tech in play in the War in Heaven.

Time travel isn't really all that impressive, because if you can travel in time, anything you would go forward or backward and do you've already done so it wouldn't actually change anything. The Necron's big weapon claims to fame blow up star systems, the Forerunners kill galaxies, and have because nothing else could stop the Flood (i.e. all the planet killing weapons in the galaxy were stopping them, nuclear cleansing fire from the sky that literally glassed planets wasn't stopping them, nothing was stopping the Flood save total and complete annihilation).

That is not how it is described as functioning for Orikan the Diviner, who can and does change the course of history with his time-travel shenanigans, often to unforeseen consequences. The reason they call him The Diviner, though, is because he uses his time-travel shenanigans to ensure that his predictions come true.

And, yes, Halo Universe BS, yadda yadda. The reason I know the 40K universe can stop them is because Master Chief stops them in his own universe, and Space Marines are Master Chief +100. Also, there are nine hundred, ninety-nine thousand, nine hundred and ninety-nine more of them than there are of him.

 Niiai wrote:
I do agree that borg and flod does not have much experience with the warp. This could get interesting.

Although somebody pointed out how the flood contamination was it did sound a lot like how the enslavers drove the necrons away.

Some interesting races from the doctor universe. Daleks and/or time lords could be interesting. Cybermen would not be so incredible.

Daleks would kill everything, possibly even the Chaos Gods, they have weapons capable of exterminating all forms of life in the multiverse. The cyberman got buffed recently so the only way to beat them was for the human empire to blow up an entire galaxy to win the war against them. Even then they survived. Oh, they're also capable of moving so fast that in their view, time freezes. And can make themselves near invincible to any weapon so long as several of their units have died to it, where they then 'upgrade' and patch themselves to shrug it off.

Cybusmen however are much different and incredibly weak compared to current Cybermen (Mondassian and the current hybrid) and would probably die to a single Regiment of Guardsmen. Nothing besides small threats in Doctor Who could be added to anything, as they're hilariously overpowered.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
-snip-

Master Chief only stopped them because they were starved Flood that barely got past stage one. Stage Four flood (which is Silentium Flood), are just the Precursors, and capable of bulldozing the IOM with little effort, especially if they have any Forerunner tech, which is on par with WIH Necrons, if not better in the area of feats.

Tell you what. Put Species 8472, Tyranids, zerg and flood in adjected systems and see what comes out. The rest would be doomed.

Master Chief only stopped them because they were starved Flood that barely got past stage one. Stage Four flood (which is Silentium Flood), are just the Precursors, and capable of bulldozing the IOM with little effort, especially if they have any Forerunner tech, which is on par with WIH Necrons, if not better in the area of feats.

Is that in the actual games, or is this something from the books?

If this is bookstuff, then I give not a feth, because it becomes badly-written-sci-fi-books-for-now-badly-written-video-game against usually-badly-written-sci-fi-books-for-badly-written-tabletop-wargame, and then it just gets insane.

And, if we are getting to *that* level of things...

God-Emperor snaps his fingers, the entire Flood vanishes into a Warp Storm (like he is canonically credited to doing to Vandire's fleet during the Age of Apostasy, with the Warpstorm called the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath) and the Flood is then destroyed by the ever-victorious Black Hamster Chapter of Space Hamsters.

Here is their Chapter Master: Rodentus Cricetinae.



Fear his fuzzy wrath.

 Psienesis wrote:

Master Chief only stopped them because they were starved Flood that barely got past stage one. Stage Four flood (which is Silentium Flood), are just the Precursors, and capable of bulldozing the IOM with little effort, especially if they have any Forerunner tech, which is on par with WIH Necrons, if not better in the area of feats.

Is that in the actual games, or is this something from the books?

If this is bookstuff, then I give not a feth, because it becomes badly-written-sci-fi-books-for-now-badly-written-video-game against usually-badly-written-sci-fi-books-for-badly-written-tabletop-wargame, and then it just gets insane.

And, if we are getting to *that* level of things...

God-Emperor snaps his fingers, the entire Flood vanishes into a Warp Storm (like he is canonically credited to doing to Vandire's fleet during the Age of Apostasy, with the Warpstorm called the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath) and the Flood is then destroyed by the ever-victorious Black Hamster Chapter of Space Hamsters.

Here is their Chapter Master: Rodentus Cricetinae.



Fear his fuzzy wrath.

The books are just as valid as the games, just as is the Black Library. That an Halo books are explicitly canon.

Then the God-Emperor traps them all in a Warp Storm, and the Black Hamster Chapter destroys them utterly. Game, set, match.

I mean, there's some gak in BL novels that I refuse to countenance, because it's utter fanwankery gak, but, there it is. This is why I don't like to get into debates pulling things out of BL novels (mainly because they have no canon) because it just gets insane.

 Psienesis wrote:
Then the God-Emperor traps them all in a Warp Storm, and the Black Hamster Chapter destroys them utterly. Game, set, match.

I mean, there's some gak in BL novels that I refuse to countenance, because it's utter fanwankery gak, but, there it is. This is why I don't like to get into debates pulling things out of BL novels (mainly because they have no canon) because it just gets insane.

Precursors can move galaxies. Stakes are raised.
(Although there wasn't anything more on that. Just 'they can move galaxies'.

Galaxies move on their own. Are we sure they're not just claiming something that happens due to natural law?

 Psienesis wrote:
Galaxies move on their own. Are we sure they're not just claiming something that happens due to natural law?

No, as in acually move. Besides, context wise, the Precursors are indestructible space magic entities. Oh, and Precursors are older than the universe IIRC. Only their avatars can be destroyed, which are the Flood. Nothing in W40K could really stand up to them besides Chaos and the Necrons/C'tan. Against which they'd likely stalemate, as neither faction could really do anything besides blow each others pawns up.

However, Flood as of the Human-Covenant war and not the Forerunner-Human war is vastly weaker and never got to fully develop.

If the Precursors predate the universe, then who is gainsaying them claiming to be able to move galaxies, when galaxies move on their own? I mean, galaxies actually move. Everything in space is in constant motion. Are we sure they're not just claiming to make that happen? Have they demonstrated this ability?

But sounds to me like the Precursors are Bungie's version of the C'Tan. We all know what happened to them.

 Psienesis wrote:
If the Precursors predate the universe, then who is gainsaying them claiming to be able to move galaxies, when galaxies move on their own? I mean, galaxies actually move. Everything in space is in constant motion. Are we sure they're not just claiming to make that happen? Have they demonstrated this ability?

But sounds to me like the Precursors are Bungie's version of the C'Tan. We all know what happened to them.

Not Bungie. Bungie I don't think even had the idea of Precursors besides a single word we saw a couple times (plus if they actually created them, we'd end up with something well designed like the eldritch entities in Marathon). 343i has taken over and are the people behind the whole practically pornographic view of the Forerunners that have dispelled any and all mystery surrounding them, the Precursors, and the Flood.

-shakes fist-

As should be obvious, I don't really keep up with these sorts of things. The last Halo game I played was... Three? Four? The Xbox 360 launch-title one. Beat it in the first sitting, so maybe five hours of gameplay? Sorely disappointed in the apparent cut of the single-player campaign and its story in favor of the multiplayer deathmatch.

If the Borg attacked it would be very low key, they would clearly know that a straight up fight would be the end of them, so it's simple, hit a frigate here and there, hit a agri world or frontier world and disappear before a reprisal, then escalate a little and send small teams to low level worlds and hit a few ad mech outposts, assimilate key figures on some forge worlds (beaming tech is vastly superior to anything 40k has. Can also beam through shields) thus learning ALL they know of imperial tech, do this for 2/300 years all the while building transwarp hubs and gates, use these gates to coordinate attacks on hive worlds and forge worlds and leave before a reprisal, the imperium then has to fight ships that are immune to their weapons, can beam aboard there ships, and have learned there tactics and how to best counter them, given time the Borg would sweep the imperials aside through shear numbers and superior tech

 Formosa wrote:
If the Borg attacked it would be very low key, they would clearly know that a straight up fight would be the end of them, so it's simple, hit a frigate here and there, hit a agri world or frontier world and disappear before a reprisal, then escalate a little and send small teams to low level worlds and hit a few ad mech outposts, assimilate key figures on some forge worlds (beaming tech is vastly superior to anything 40k has. Can also beam through shields) thus learning ALL they know of imperial tech, do this for 2/300 years all the while building transwarp hubs and gates, use these gates to coordinate attacks on hive worlds and forge worlds and leave before a reprisal, the imperium then has to fight ships that are immune to their weapons, can beam aboard there ships, and have learned there tactics and how to best counter them, given time the Borg would sweep the imperials aside through shear numbers and superior tech

Well for one, the Borg can't really assimilate Imperial tech (most of it is man-powered), they've never shown resistance to weapons of their yields (high gigatons to terratons for single blasts), and Borg are only immune to weapons in Star Trek due to most of it being frequency based particle weaponry technobabble. As shown, they have zero defense against melee or physical weapons, so Macrocannons will shred their ships in short order, and Lancers will likely overwhelm their shields with little effort. The Borg don't pack any punch to bring to W40K and will be shredded on their first attack by any respectable defensive fleet.

It doesn't help either that they'll all simply become Daemon Engines whenever exposed to Chaos via scrapcode and helpfully provide Chaos forces in the Eye with their own replicating armies of fodder.

So, just a few facts about what the SIlentium Flood bring to the table.

“Unknown construct approaching at one-third light-speed,” it said. “Instructions!” Sharp still refused to believe. The expanded gray circle outlined an irregular ball of coiling and twisting star roads, Precursor artifacts that had been around for as long as any Forerunner could remember— unchanging, unresponsive. Revered by both Forerunners and humans as the remnants of our Creation. “It’s going to arrive here about the same time as those ships,” Maker said. “Can we outrun it?” I asked. “No,” she said.

Bear, Greg (2013-03-19). Halo: Silentium (Forerunner) (pp. 96-97). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

We were overtaken by the vast weave of reawakened star roads, spinning and churning like serpents in a huge nest— the graceful and haunting structures of our deep past now made fell and horrifying. The tangle looped around Uthera, deftly avoiding intersecting the planet. Then, incredibly, the planet itself began to crack and shrink, as if squeezed by a huge fist. The resulting shift in our orbit thrust us farther into the mass. An entire planet was being destroyed— just to draw us closer. “This is the way Precursors moved stars,” Maker whispered.

Bear, Greg (2013-03-19). Halo: Silentium (Forerunner) (p. 106). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

But what I see in the abyssal night around the greater Ark is enough to freeze me through and through. Somehow, the old artifacts have been transported in such amazing density that the galaxy beyond is barely visible, as if viewed through a weave of shadowy bars. The Ark is surrounded, and every second the star roads squeeze in. Already our radius of action is down to a few million kilometers.

That means there were enough of them to create a semi solid sphere around a greater ark with a diameter of at least 6 million kilometers.

These things could also move through ftl, pull ships along with them, and generate fields that disabled A.I. and technology in the systems they enter.

But none of them conjure Warp Storms out of thin air. Or.. space. Thin space. That's it.

So... they lose.

 Psienesis wrote:
But none of them conjure Warp Storms out of thin air. Or.. space. Thin space. That's it.

So... they lose.

They are shaped by thought and made of exotic matter manipulated by living space time. They are an anathema to the warp as they represent the true order of reality, and thus, would likely negate warp powers altogether. Much like the pylons on Cadia.

Borg have indeed been shown to adapt to Kinetics and pysical blows and it would not take long at all, there thing is adaption, so if imperial weapons use Kinetics and such, then they would adapt its that simple.

Also note that I know that a straight up fight the borg would lose, no doubt, the Borg would also realise this and commit to a hit and run kind of warfare that the imperials could not even hope to match, add to this some of the most sophisticated sensor tech in almost any setting that can detect SHIPS from sectors away, so they know where you are and where your patrols are, they dont use the warp in the same way as other trek races and as such for arguments sake the 40k warp would not affect them, they use transwarp that can fire them across a GALAXY in a very short period and with great accuracy.

So far we have a race that
A: knows where you are at all times except if you are in the "warp" to which they would adapt to by assimilating psychics.
B: Is faster than you in almost everyway, more manueverable and has Beam tech that can get through your shields.
c: Will adapt to your technology very very rapidly, body armour for drone will start to apear and cubes will start getting larger to accomodate assimilated imperial tech, that will be more efficient and accurate due to borg improvement.
D: you cannot fight as they will simply warp out as soon as the engagement becomes likely to end badly for them, to which you cannot stop or detect.

The Borg are like the nids, If given time they WILL out tech you, they WILL out adapt you, in a staight up fight 40k wins hands down, given time its the Borg.... Deamons a problem? add the pariah gene to the millions of drones being made or clone them, nids eating worlds? who cares we dont actually need them, were fleet based!, Space marines boarding your ships? Sweet, there coming to us, lets learn all we can about there tactics, so they kill a few cubes who cares, we know how they fight now, lets ambush a company... now we have space marine borg.... and the tech to build more due to the geneseed... wow these Imperials are generous

They are shaped by thought and made of exotic matter manipulated by living space time. They are an anathema to the warp as they represent the true order of reality, and thus, would likely negate warp powers altogether. Much like the pylons on Cadia.

That is not what you think it is.

If they are shaped by thought, then they are not the anathema of Chaos, because Thought is Chaos. If they are manipulated by Time, then they are not entirely of Order, for Order knows not of Time, for it exists apart from it in stasis. As in Chaos, where the Immaterium is an ever-changing landscape of thoughts, emotions and energies taking physical form into every imaginable and unimaginable shape, Order is perfect stillness, unchanging, unmoving, in stasis forever.

Between these two extremes, of course, lies mortal comprehension of what life, in all its varieties, entails.

True order? Wouldn't they then be anathema to eachother thus destroying the both of them? Also flood doesn't really seem very order oriented. I'm so lost now

Also, for relevant feats pertaining to the Precursors and Silentium flood, or as we call them, 'Floodcursors', pop by here.

http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/precursor-flood-feat-thread.264267/

You should also remember that the guys the Flood absolutely annihilated, the Forerunners, are often described as being 'culture-lite'.

A race that, after assimilating Forerunner technology, was capable of rendering dimensions incompatible with Forerunner ftl drives across 2/3rds of the galaxy. Stranding them in infected space.

 buddha wrote:
40k is definitely one of, if not the, heavyweaight sci-fi universes. Everything is beyond grimdark, powerful, and deadly and huge in size and scale. Even star wars, which has huge amounts of power as far as sci-fi setting go wouldn't last long when a freaking star destroyer is the size of a frigate (no really, a cobra destroyer, one of the "smallest escorts" is the same size as a freakin star destroyer).

Being in the 40K universe is just finding a good way to die.

Lolno. If anything, W40K is smack dab in the middle of everything. The only really heavyweight parts of it are Chaos and the C'tan. The Culture, Xeelee and the Photino Birds (or whatever they're called), all of Doctor Who, all of Marvel, Lovecraft, Downstreamers, and so, so much more is vastly more powerful than W40K thanks to the wide range of Sci Fi there is.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 buddha wrote:
40k is definitely one of, if not the, heavyweaight sci-fi universes. Everything is beyond grimdark, powerful, and deadly and huge in size and scale. Even star wars, which has huge amounts of power as far as sci-fi setting go wouldn't last long when a freaking star destroyer is the size of a frigate (no really, a cobra destroyer, one of the "smallest escorts" is the same size as a freakin star destroyer).

Being in the 40K universe is just finding a good way to die.

Lolno. If anything, W40K is smack dab in the middle of everything. The only really heavyweight parts of it are Chaos and the C'tan. The Culture, Xeelee and the Photino Birds (or whatever they're called), all of Doctor Who, all of Marvel, Lovecraft, Downstreamers, and so, so much more is vastly more powerful than W40K thanks to the wide range of Sci Fi there is.

I'd argue that 40k is one of the more heavyweight sci fi worlds beating out most. That being said, every single one you mentioned 100% is higher tier than 40k itself. The only ones that even crawl that high are Chaos, C'tan, and arguably Nids to some extent. That being said, even they cannot handle lovecraft, the Culture, and the sorts.

tl;dr Bloody Daleks

Destroy. Destroy.

I think we can all agree that these guys could win against 40k


Fear their hyper advanced technology! Their plunger of doom and their totally-not cooking utensil gun of doom

honestly high tier sci-fi is remarkably easy to get too and it's worth noting 90% of the time a setting's highest tier comes from pieces of bad writing, or "background info" or simply just some super threat that requires the people to deal with. It's like Star Wars. the most powerful things in the movie (the death stars) are pretty much a plot device.

I think it's more intresting once you ignore the plot devices like Death Stars, Blackstone Fortresses etc