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Not a chance. As everyone has already said, there's just too much for them to even try to handle it. Exterminatus should be used on the Old World, but let's face it, when has a marine company ever looked at a world like that and *not* just blindly flown down to try to conquer it on the ground? The marines would be wiped out by their own hubris very quickly.

The marines wouldn't get wiped out, as the marines simply wouldn't try to take the planet by them selves, I know that is the scenario but it is an unrealistic one even in the 40k setting, the marines may take out multiple enemy commands, but they have better things to do than mop up the rest. Also, they aren't stupid, these are highly trained, specialised and highly tactical warriors, so when the factions go underground, or into hiding in the forests or mountains, the marines aren't going to follow them, they are going to call for back up if the world seems worth saving, or they are going to mark it for exterminatus and move along.

The marines would get toast if they tried to put the factions down on the open battle field, but they aren't going to do that, they are going to strike and quickly withdraw back into orbit before anything nasty decides to deal with them. Though, those nasty things aren't exactly fast moving, they don't have any fast transport to close the distances to the marines, the marines could lead their foe on a merry chase till they get exhausted.

Seriously, a much more realistic and interesting scenario is a couple of guard regiments with average armor support + one company of marines. Against a feral human world that would be more than enough, but against a multi-nasty world it could be a fair fight, especially as the guardsmen are BOUND to make a stupid arrogant tactical error at some point.

Toast in open field? Imagine the battle of agincort with about 15 heavy bolters in machine gun pits backed up by a firing line of 40 or so tacticals with 20 assault marines to kill the wounded and pursue the broken forces into a rout. Open field the marines would dominate WFB factions, hard.

Steam tank? Meet 41st century technology LAND RAIDER.

Dragon? Dodge this hellstrike missile

Saurus Block? Catch this vindicator shell

Strategically the Marines advantage is insurmountable. they can move across the entire world in hours, where it takes weeks for most fantasy armies to travel even a couple hundred miles. Marines can strike at staging areas and destroy the other factions abilites to make war, as they don't have the manpower to guard every farm.

Tactics win battles but logistics win wars. Considering how easily the marines can interdict the WFB lines of communication and supply (after assploding their generals and religious leaders) you can see where i am coming from.

The biggest problem the WFB guys have isn't actually the marines themselves. It's the thunderhawks and the mobility they give the marine force. They can't match that. Plus with a strike cruiser in orbit, marine C4ISR means they can't be suprised and have the exact disposition of enemy forces above ground (and possibly below, we don't know alot about their imaging tech) at all times, in real time. That's massive.

Tend to agree with those who say the Marines wouldn't try to take this world. Rather they'd launch key strikes at key areas designed to effectivly destablize the world to make the "human guard wave" easier.

Nope. Skaven, Chaos, magic, magic, magic, magic, magic...did I say magic? Oh and chaos...and...magic? They can certainly crush conventional armies. Unfortunately for them, thats minority in WHFB.

 Silverthorne wrote:
Toast in open field? Imagine the battle of agincort with about 15 heavy bolters in machine gun pits backed up by a firing line of 40 or so tacticals with 20 assault marines to kill the wounded and pursue the broken forces into a rout. Open field the marines would dominate WFB factions, hard.

I'm just going to address this one, because it's the key reason why marines WOULDN'T fight them in an open field. The more open the field is, the more directions they can be attacked from, the more enemies that can attack them simultaneously and the more enemies they need to kill. This is a huge problem, if the marines end up against 50k+ enemies all lined up ready to have a go when the wave in front of them fails, they are going to struggle BIG TIME when they run out of ammo. At that point, the thunderhawks are going to have to come down to resupply and/or extract, and then the thunderhawks are vulnerable to huge monsters and magic mental wizards and mages.

The only reason marines would engage in an open battle situation is what I mentioned earlier in the thread, where the marines drop down, strike with superior range and extract before the distance is closed.

The only way the marines survive is to stay mobile, it is also the only way they could win conceivably by themselves. Open battle isn't the way forward.

Or maybe we assume that the strategy rating 4 space marines with unassailable mobility and reconnaissance abilities don't allow themselves to be caught in the middle of open field surrounded by every army in the warhammer world....

Here's how I foresee things happening.

It will play out something like the Malus Darkblade roadshow a fear years ago. I was at the Edinburgh store when they arrived, and what do you know?

About a dozen teclis-level (or teclis impersonator level fours, ehe) with Lore of Heavens just turned the entire battlefield into a meteor storm of legends. By turn two, half the battlefield was knee-deep in Comet of Cassandora templates - because really, what people are forgetting is that the Lore of the Heavens could rip a Thunderhawk out of the sky and use it as a projectile weapon - since asteroids move at similar speeds and have significantly greater mass.

What's that banner the Skaven have that stops all flying and hinders shooting? The Thunderhawks, jump packs and all ranged weapons just got useles.

I'm pretty sure warpstone ammo would have a good chance to penetrate power armour too.

How many Skaven can a chainsword mangle before it overheats and explodes or it jams on rat bones? Not enough.

Skaven kill all the marines without the other factions even having to try.

Daemons also kill all the marines easily due to the warp gates allowing them to constantly re-spawn.
Slann don't even have to get out of bed to kill all the marines but probably don't notice them or spend too long thinking about it.
Teclis kills all the marines solo because he's Teclis...

The marines would easily run out of ammo before they killed even 10% of the greenskin population.

Nagash brings back every dead marine as an undead marine and uses them to kill all the other marines before taking over the world, then the galaxy until every living thing is dead and every dead thing is under his control.

 Silverthorne wrote:
Or maybe we assume that the strategy rating 4 space marines with unassailable mobility and reconnaissance abilities don't allow themselves to be caught in the middle of open field surrounded by every army in the warhammer world....

So you agree, the marines wouldn't face them down in the open field.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
Or maybe we assume that the strategy rating 4 space marines with unassailable mobility and reconnaissance abilities don't allow themselves to be caught in the middle of open field surrounded by every army in the warhammer world....

So you agree, the marines wouldn't face them down in the open field.

Space Marines never face down their enemy in the middle of an open field, they are a scalpel not a slegehammer. That is the Imperial Guard.

 the shrouded lord wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
No. They couldn't. They would never even be able to get there, unless they suddenly recieve the power to travel to different imaginary universes entirely.

Dude... read posts.
also, you realise that 40k and WHFB have been confirmed to be in the same universe, right?
there was a thingy over on BOLS..

For your information: I did read the post.
It mentioned nowhere how the Marines were able to get there in the first place.
40k and WHFB are not in the same universe, GW has made that very clear.
There are too many conflicting things (Magic, Slaanesh) for them to be in the same universe.

Now if we assume that the Marines were just magically teleported to a different universe, the interesting things in the interaction between 40k and Fantasy would be magic, which does not exist in 40k, and psychic powers, who do not exist in Fantasy.
Now a company could not pacify the Warhammer World, magic is too strong and the Marines do not have any resistance to it. But I am sure the Marines could leave quite an impression.

 Silverthorne wrote:
Or maybe we assume that the strategy rating 4 space marines with unassailable mobility and reconnaissance abilities don't allow themselves to be caught in the middle of open field surrounded by every army in the warhammer world....

I'm going to argue that marines seldom make anything resembling sane decisions in most of the novels I've read. They see the open battlefield and fifty thousand goblins and they just start salivating. They freaking LOVE vainglorious last stands, almost as much as they love to piss away vital resources and personnel on pointless battles. They'd be going on and on about the Emperor protecting this that and the other, and next thing you know your whole company drop podded into the Chaos Wastes with no plan for extraction because retreat is not an option, or some crap like that.

 welshhoppo wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
Or maybe we assume that the strategy rating 4 space marines with unassailable mobility and reconnaissance abilities don't allow themselves to be caught in the middle of open field surrounded by every army in the warhammer world....

So you agree, the marines wouldn't face them down in the open field.

Space Marines never face down their enemy in the middle of an open field, they are a scalpel not a slegehammer. That is the Imperial Guard.

Actually, I think the comparison is flawed. Something like an Imperial Assassin would be the scalpel. Marines seem like an awfully strong hammer to me, whereas the Guard is a masssssssssive, slow sander.

An Assassin is a needle, a Marine squad is a scalpel, and a Guard platoon is a sword. Hammers are reserved for Tank Companies and doomed dropships.

That said, bossfearless is pretty much right about how most marines operate.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
Or maybe we assume that the strategy rating 4 space marines with unassailable mobility and reconnaissance abilities don't allow themselves to be caught in the middle of open field surrounded by every army in the warhammer world....

So you agree, the marines wouldn't face them down in the open field.

Space Marines could engage at several kilometres range. WHFB armies can't.
Open field = training session for scouts.

Still waiting for warhammer supporters to see the error in their logic....

Numbers don't matter if you can't engage.

Numbers matter most of all. 100 marines fighting 24/7 would not make a dent in the population of the whole planet. ( skaven alone already )

Nonsense.
Settlements in the ancient era on earth had only a few thousand people per city. Fantasy settings aren't different.

There aren't millions of living/undead creatures and surely pacification =/= kill em all.

Lore of Metal...

Ceramite=/= metal

What exactly is Ceramite?

 1hadhq wrote:
Nonsense.
Settlements in the ancient era on earth had only a few thousand people per city. Fantasy settings aren't different.

There aren't millions of living/undead creatures and surely pacification =/= kill em all.

Ahem...by ancient era you mean medieval? Like...WHFB?

 1hadhq wrote:
Still waiting for warhammer supporters to see the error in their logic....

There is no error in the bare faced fact that a single Marine company cannot possibly hope, in any capacity whatsoever, to have enough supplies, ammo, manpower (there's only a hundred of them, in case that wasn't clear) or time with which to pacify an entire planet. How can you even begin to think otherwise? Seriously?

Numbers don't matter if you can't engage.

They matter a whole lot if you want any chance in hell to actually assert any kind of lasting victory or dominance after you've flexed your superior, although extremely localised and limited, military might. Again, once the hundred supermen from heaven run out of ammo, which will take almost no time at all (because, you know, there's only a hundred of them and they're fighting an entire planet, in case that still hasn't sunk in), they will be left no other choice than to engage in close quarters. Once they do that, it's only a matter of time before they get bogged down and surrounded, and in turn they'll tire and finally get ground into dust.

 Silverthorne wrote:
Ceramite=/= metal

Citation needed. What is ceramite composed of, then? Because as far as I was aware, it is used in conjuction with adamantium and plasteel in most forms of advanced building material and armour plating technology. Therefore I'm pretty certain that the lore of metal would be extremely effective against Marines and, most crucially, their equipment.

Yeah, as the previous points have mentioned, there is just no way in which a single company of space marines could take on the entirety of the WHFB world and conquer it.

 Anfauglir wrote:
How can you even begin to think otherwise? Seriously?

Well, @heresy era, a company of Ultramarines what was deemed appropriate to capture a world (Source: Know no Fear, a novel that was not too OTT in this respect IMHO), but WHFB is not exactly a normal world.

Isn't Know No Fear about the Battle of Calth?

UlrikDecado wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:
Nonsense.
Settlements in the ancient era on earth had only a few thousand people per city. Fantasy settings aren't different.

There aren't millions of living/undead creatures and surely pacification =/= kill em all.

Ahem...by ancient era you mean medieval? Like...WHFB?

WHFB has a lot of collected stuff, like Egyptians ( tomb kings ) Fantasy ( elves and orcs and dwarfs ) , Bretonnia ( medieval ) , Empire ( 1400-1600 ), etc.

Anfauglir wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:
Still waiting for warhammer supporters to see the error in their logic....

There is no error in the bare faced fact that a single Marine company cannot possibly hope, in any capacity whatsoever, to have enough supplies, ammo, manpower (there's only a hundred of them, in case that wasn't clear) or time with which to pacify an entire planet. How can you even begin to think otherwise? Seriously?

Yes seriously.
GW created planets aren't like our Earth.
Elfs are rare. Dwarfs are rare. Both aren't automatically overrun whenever they face a more numerous opponent.
Thus you can't pull the "100 marines isn't enough" card here.

This is not : "pacify a hive city of 10-100 million souls."
Its "keep some settlements and a few kings in check".
Different mission.
Make the Kings bow to the God-Emporer and be done with it. World pacified. Compliant.

Anfauglir wrote:

Numbers don't matter if you can't engage.

They matter a whole lot if you want any chance in hell to actually assert any kind of lasting victory or dominance after you've flexed your superior, although extremely localised and limited, military might. Again, once the hundred supermen from heaven run out of ammo, which will take almost no time at all (because, you know, there's only a hundred of them and they're fighting an entire planet, in case that still hasn't sunk in), they will be left no other choice than to engage in close quarters. Once they do that, it's only a matter of time before they get bogged down and surrounded, and in turn they'll tire and finally get ground into dust.

Nothing says SM have to engage in HtH at all. Mankind moved on from stone axes to shooty sticks. Am sorry but if CC was so great we would still use the same weapons as we did for thousands of years. But we don't.

Whfb is outmaneuvred, outclassed in range, too immobile and its defenses useless ( castles vs airborne assaults anyone ? ).
The ressources of whfb closer to the battles of city-states than World-wars.


To achieve the mission objective:
The space marines don't have to kill everyone. They don't have to control every being on that planet.
Your mistake is, they just end the existance of Armies. They end the life of leaders. They cut off trade lines.
Make them run away. Fear the wrath of the ones up in the sky.
And surely superstitious enough to build myths around the newcomers to make them too mighty to even consider to oppose them.

 1hadhq wrote:

UlrikDecado wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:
Nonsense.
Settlements in the ancient era on earth had only a few thousand people per city. Fantasy settings aren't different.

There aren't millions of living/undead creatures and surely pacification =/= kill em all.

Ahem...by ancient era you mean medieval? Like...WHFB?

WHFB has a lot of collected stuff, like Egyptians ( tomb kings ) Fantasy ( elves and orcs and dwarfs ) , Bretonnia ( medieval ) , Empire ( 1400-1600 ), etc.

Yeah. And main part is Empire, Bretons, Kislev, heck, even those Elves are medieval. If you say "in the ancient era on earth had only a few thousand people per city" in this context, its...simply wrong. Bigger medieval cities had from 40 thousand to 200 thousand people. For the Egyptian metropolis, Alexandria had from 300 thousand to even one million with slaves accounted. And of course, like you said, there are orcs and skaven, not exactly known for low numbers of fighting force.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 1hadhq wrote:

To achieve the mission objective:
The space marines don't have to kill everyone. They don't have to control every being on that planet.
Your mistake is, they just end the existance of Armies. They end the life of leaders. They cut off trade lines.
Make them run away. Fear the wrath of the ones up in the sky.
And surely superstitious enough to build myths around the newcomers to make them too mighty to even consider to oppose them.

So in final we have picture of space marines, flying over world, shooting some rockets and dashing away so no magic, demon, warp, chaos, magic, magic, magic, dragon, demon, warpstorm doesnt hit them and during the flying they say "yeeeeah, we conquered this world!"

Sorry, it would end like this. "Hey, some new magical gimmick from Empire/ Dwarfs/ Tzeentch/ Druchii.." - take it down with our fethton of antiair and lets continue...oh, what a nice piece of armor, lets put it on flagpole, dont scrub those remains

 Anfauglir wrote:
Isn't Know No Fear about the Battle of Calth?

That it is, but it is still discussed by the characters there. Given how strategically competent said characters are, you'd think they know what they are talking about.

Chapter 3, page 40.

 1hadhq wrote:
Elfs are rare. Dwarfs are rare. Both aren't automatically overrun whenever they face a more numerous opponent.
Thus you can't pull the "100 marines isn't enough" card here.

Yes, yes I can. Over and over again no matter how many times you refuse to face it. The Elves and Dwarves being rare matters very little in the face of a hundred opponents, it's still far, far too little a force to permenantly destroy and/or dominate them. How, pray tell, are a hundred warriors going to be able to police all of the Elf and Dwarf kingdoms effectively? Or at all, for that matter? They're not, and to think that they can is delusional. I say again: not enough manpower, it's really that simple.

This is not : "pacify a hive city of 10-100 million souls."
Its "keep some settlements and a few kings in check".
Different mission.

And one that is still completely and utterly impossible for a single company to accomplish. There are not enough Marines to go around and kill enough leaders, police enough provinces, supress enough rebellions, erradicate enough Chaos, etc, etc, etc that would be needed to even start transforming the Warhammer World into an ordered, compliant planet.

Make the Kings bow to the God-Emporer and be done with it. World pacified. Compliant.

Except no, because the Orcs will never bow. The Skaven will never bow. The Warriors of Chaos, and the numberless Daemon hoards will never bow. The Slann and their Lizardmen will never bow. The Beastmen will never bow. The Tomb Kings and the Vampire Counts are extremely unlikely to bow, as are the Elves, Dwarves and Ogres, for that matter. Also, there's a tiny problem with that "make" part of your grand plan. The only way they're going to "make" any faction of the Warhammer World do anything is the complete military, political and ideological subjugation of that faction... something they simply don't have the numbers to do.

Nothing says SM have to engage in HtH at all. Mankind moved on from stone axes to shooty sticks. Am sorry but if CC was so great we would still use the same weapons as we did for thousands of years. But we don't.

You seem to have trapped yourself in some fallacy that the Warhammer Fantasy and 40K universe resembles our own when it comes to how much reliance is placed on melee warfare. Sorry to break this to you, but... Space Marines are nothing more than medieval knights INN SPAAACE! GW and 40K fluff love the romantic notion of hand-to-hand combat, Marines are no different and can't get enough of it. Pro-tip: stop trying to relate what the Space Marines are and how they would fight based on our own, modern, real life military forces. It doesn't work, and does nothing for your argument. Finally, one thing says that the Marines will have to engage in melee: supplies, namely munitions. They aren't infinite, more to the point, they're vastly inadequate for the task at hand.

The ressources of whfb closer to the battles of city-states than World-wars.

Right, and a hundred soldiers is not even enough resources for city-state battles, let alone world-wars. The fact that you think otherwise is, I'm afraid, both delusional and laughable.