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So in general how to run land raiders?

I'm planning on running 2-3 of them in 1500pt for my grey knights, act as mobile LOS blocking firing platforms.

Anyone with any experience with them?

I usually run two of them when I do bring them. Using only one just makes a huge target that gets popped on the first turn.

I typically bring crusaders.

I don't see the advantages in taking a crusader though, would a normal land raider and a redeemer be a good pair?

I'm actually in the process of trying to run two LRR, one LR Proteus w/ scout, and a Sicaran Battle Tank in a 1750 list. Def like Vord said tho, you need to bring at least two. The LRR's are great if you can get close. Hence why I bring the Sicaran BT.

Choose the LR that best compliments your army. I'm running a Redeemer in my 2000 point White Scars list. I'm using it to transport my Termies and as an expensive distraction. Works great, where as a normal LR wouldn't fit so well. If you must go with multiple, take all shooty, or all close range ones. But again it all hinges on how you use them

I run one to transport my termies. Only lost it four or five times, almost always to scarabs.

If you're having it be a transport, then I would definitely pop for the extra armor upgrade.

Wings of Purity wrote:
I don't see the advantages in taking a crusader though, would a normal land raider and a redeemer be a good pair?

Grey Knights can make those Hurricane Bolters Str 5, which is a pretty nice amount of damage going down field, and the extra storage space is nice.

Personally I just don't like the Redeemer. I know it's all a game of tank shocking a nice corridor of models to flame, but doing virtually no damage until then just doesn't work for me.

1) Storming squadron. Put termies and other HtH units inside. Run at enemy at full speed. Disembark and kill everyone.
2) As big Leman Russes. Stay in cover and shoot at enemy vehicles. Some psykers can help cast magic from inside.
3) Armored wall. Move LR and rotate them at the end of phase to create wall. Other troops will hide behind it.

Well, I'd run them through the centre of the battle field. This gives you control of either side.

Landraiders are best used for transport, ideally terminators or large blobs that wouldn't fit inside a rhino, and getting them into cc.

Crusader is by far the best choice of the 3. The standard raider has limited transport cap and schizo personalty (cc transport and lascannons???), redeemer looks good on paper, but getting those temples in range is difficult and doesn't synergize well with putting troops in front of it when you need them to charge (also has a smaller transport cap).

Take 2 of them to be most effective. Use them to block LoS and also protect the side armour of other vehicles.

is there anywhere that says you cant put bikes inside, I know they have the very bulky, but on a crusader you could fit 5.
our friendly games we do secret deployments where we can hide what is inside what. thought that might be really funny to try

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

Crusader is by far the best choice of the 3. The standard raider has limited transport cap and schizo personalty (cc transport and lascannons???)

You really have to use the standard raider to understand why it's so great. With a crusader your max range is 24" and the hurricanes aren't effective until 12". I'm not sure about you, but most things that can destroy a raider I don't want to be 12" from. But to answer your schizo personality question, pop a small scoring unit inside and sit the raider back. They hardly die.

All three raiders are flawed in that their dakka/pt ratio sucks out loud. Yeah, the Godhammer is good at the above tactic, but it's a lot of points that is not putting on any pressure to the enemy.

Martel732 wrote:
All three raiders are flawed in that their dakka/pt ratio sucks out loud. Yeah, the Godhammer is good at the above tactic, but it's a lot of points that is not putting on any pressure to the enemy.

I would say an AV14 box spitting out lascannons and securing an objective is pressure, mission depending. Their shear size can be used for cover, block/control firing lanes, etc.

I absolutely agree their dakka/pt ratio is terrible, but there is a lot more to a unit than its dakka.

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
All three raiders are flawed in that their dakka/pt ratio sucks out loud. Yeah, the Godhammer is good at the above tactic, but it's a lot of points that is not putting on any pressure to the enemy.

I would say an AV14 box spitting out lascannons and securing an objective is pressure, mission depending. Their shear size can be used for cover, block/control firing lanes, etc.

I absolutely agree their dakka/pt ratio is terrible, but there is a lot more to a unit than its dakka.

Sadly, not that much in 6th. After I wipe up the rest of your list, I can crack the AV 14. Plus Chaos Demons LOL at you.

Crusader is probably best for GK

+1 str to the hurricane, assault cannon for 5 more points

Viewpoint as a user: I see the LR as a transport and shield primarily. Its weapons are secondary bonuses that I don't count towards winning victory. It's the contents they carry and their ability to block LoS that win the battle.

Viewpoint as an opponent: granted it's tough, but I see an easy target for some high points killing. As Tau, I primarily will use deep striking suits. As marines, I'll use melta-speeders or assault squads. Easier said then done, but those are the units I favor when dealing with tough vehicles.

Now how I use them: Disclaimer; I play a close combat marine army. I prefer the bolter and chainsword. I prefer to use Rhinos since their cost is dirt cheap compared to the LR.

When in the open, I stagger two LRs side by side. One is in lead, and the trailing LR's front is just passing the backside of the lead LR. This allows for the side guns to fire but block LoS to the inside / opposite side. The trick is to keep the opponent to your front / one side. On the protected side I'll hide more Rhinos and assault squads.

Patience wins the close combat fight. Don't charge out in the open, hug terrain to deny shots. Don't charge for the sake of charging, wait till most of your units can do so. I'll spend most of the game denying LoS and setting up a striking position.

Hope the rambling makes some sense.

Martel732 wrote:

Sadly, not that much in 6th. After I wipe up the rest of your list, I can crack the AV 14. Plus Chaos Demons LOL at you.

Never had a problem with them. I don't mean purchase one in the same way you purchase a scout squad to squat an objective, the rest of the list better work with it. I'm also not saying they're invincible, just that a standard raider sitting in the back will last eons longs than a crusader charging head on, and in my experience has a much bigger impact on a game.

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

Crusader is by far the best choice of the 3. The standard raider has limited transport cap and schizo personalty (cc transport and lascannons???)

You really have to use the standard raider to understand why it's so great. With a crusader your max range is 24" and the hurricanes aren't effective until 12". I'm not sure about you, but most things that can destroy a raider I don't want to be 12" from. But to answer your schizo personality question, pop a small scoring unit inside and sit the raider back. They hardly die.

I think we need to discus what your landraider is doing, and what makes them so great.

Landraiders are great, because they can transport large units, are assault vehicles, are big and can block LoS, and are very durable vs most things.

They are very bad at putting out firepower, point for point.

Now, if you aren't pushing the LR forward, using it to protect other units, or assaulting out of it, then what you have is a very over priced brick with a pair of lascannons.

The LRC is better than the standard raider due to its increased capacity, frag launchers, and better selection of firepower.

The LRC will shred infantry, it does this very well, and can even put out a few wounds even if moving 12 inches due to the large amount of dice it rolls.
The base LR's HB and Lascannons have almost zero synergy. What target can you think of, where a HB and lascannon are both efficient for the job?

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

Crusader is by far the best choice of the 3. The standard raider has limited transport cap and schizo personalty (cc transport and lascannons???)

You really have to use the standard raider to understand why it's so great. With a crusader your max range is 24" and the hurricanes aren't effective until 12". I'm not sure about you, but most things that can destroy a raider I don't want to be 12" from. But to answer your schizo personality question, pop a small scoring unit inside and sit the raider back. They hardly die.

I think we need to discus what your landraider is doing, and what makes them so great.

Landraiders are great, because they can transport large units, are assault vehicles, are big and can block LoS, and are very durable vs most things.

They are very bad at putting out firepower, point for point.

Now, if you aren't pushing the LR forward, using it to protect other units, or assaulting out of it, then what you have is a very over priced brick with a pair of lascannons.

The LRC is better than the standard raider due to its increased capacity, frag launchers, and better selection of firepower.

The LRC will shred infantry, it does this very well, and can even put out a few wounds even if moving 12 inches due to the large amount of dice it rolls.
The base LR's HB and Lascannons have almost zero synergy. What target can you think of, where a HB and lascannon are both efficient for the job?

To be fair, with potms they don't have to.

I think we need to discus what your landraider is doing, and what makes them so great.

Of course. I'm not a hyper-competitve player, but I'll share what I can in my experience with the Dark Angels book.

Landraiders are great, because they can transport large units, are assault vehicles, are big and can block LoS, and are very durable vs most things.

LRCs/LRRs are great for all of those reasons.
Standard raiders are more durable (adue to maintaing range). Being an assault vehicle really only helps this guy against deep strikers.

They are very bad at putting out firepower, point for point.

They all are. For myself, I already have plenty of twin-linked bolters as Ravenwing.

Now, if you aren't pushing the LR forward, using it to protect other units, or assaulting out of it, then what you have is a very over priced brick with a pair of lascannons.

...that still fires 2 lascannons at two targets, still blocks LoS and protects other units. I don't just sit it in the back like a scout squad. The brick has quite a board presence.

The LRC is better than the standard raider due to its increased capacity, frag launchers, and better selection of firepower.

The increased capacity and frag launchers are useful for what you do with an LRC, yes. I'll still argue the firepower selection isn't better, but that also depends on the rest of your list.
I needed lascannons, I got 2 great lascannons.

The LRC will shred infantry, it does this very well, and can even put out a few wounds even if moving 12 inches due to the large amount of dice it rolls.
The base LR's HB and Lascannons have almost zero synergy. What target can you think of, where a HB and lascannon are both efficient for the job?

The LRC is still great, I'm not out to get it. When I want DW Knights in combat, I put them in an LRC.
The heavy bolted is my least favorite part of the raider. Regardless of what platform it's on, it's a pretty underwhelming weapon.

The Land Raider is regarded as a main battle tank, not strictly an assault vehicle (which it obviously excels at). That's how I play it, and it works quite well for me.
As for the OP, he should probably take the crusader with psybolt. Psybolt is a game changer when looking at the LRC's capabilities.

Three dark angels LRCs with the Banner of Devastation in the middle LRC. Librarian on a bike with the PFG rides in between all of them. Couple of scout squads in the two outside LRCs. Then add in whatever you deal necessary based on your local meta.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Crusader is probably best for GK

+1 str to the hurricane, assault cannon for 5 more points

Can do this to the Redeemer for str 7 flamestorm aswell!

 Elgrun wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Crusader is probably best for GK

+1 str to the hurricane, assault cannon for 5 more points

Can do this to the Redeemer for str 7 flamestorm aswell!

Sure, but going from S6 to S7 is less of a value than S4 to S5. There are a ton of things that the Bolters now wound on 3's instead of 4's, whereas the Flamestorm already was wounding on 2's against most infantry in the game.

(The Assault Cannon going to S7 is almost universally great, since it takes you into penetration range on AV12, but since both the Redeemer and Crusader have them that is less of a difference between them, though it's still a better value on the Crusader since you only need to pay for one type of Psy ammo.)

Wanted to ask a quick question is anyone can help me.

Once you move 6" you can only fire 1 weapon at full BS and the others as snapshots, so say you had a Land Raider Redeemer and moved 6" , you could fire the assault cannon but would not be able to fire the Flamestorm cannons even as snap shots since template weapons cannot snap shot?

Are you sure? 1 weapon full BS is only for ordnance artillery, for others You can shoot all. And dont forget about machine spirit rule.

"A vehicle that moved at Combat Speed may fire a single weapon using its full Ballistic Skill. The vehicle can also fire Snap Shots with other Weapons if it wishes."

Nothing about only ordnance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ordnance is if a vehicle fires that type then it can only make snap shots even if its remained stationary due to the recoil. If im getting it wrong feel free to clarify.

 Elgrun wrote:
Wanted to ask a quick question is anyone can help me.

Once you move 6" you can only fire 1 weapon at full BS and the others as snapshots, so say you had a Land Raider Redeemer and moved 6" , you could fire the assault cannon but would not be able to fire the Flamestorm cannons even as snap shots since template weapons cannot snap shot?

That's right, but you're forgetting Power of the Machine Spirit. If you're wanting to maximise weapon fire you'd use your normal 1 full BS weapon to fire one Flamestorm, PotMS to fire the second at full BS and then snap fire the Assault Cannon because it's twin-linked and so still has semi-decent odds of getting hits.

Land Raider is "heavy". no
I don't have rulebook, but look at "heavy" description in vehicle types, There should be something like "Vehicle can move only 6" and can shoot all weapons at full BS".

 Freakazoitt wrote:
Land Raider is "heavy".
I don't have rulebook, but look at "heavy" description in vehicle types, There should be something like "Vehicle can move only 6" and can shoot all weapons at full BS".

Pretty sure it isn't Heavy.

Just checked Dark Angels, and nope, Land Raiders aren't Heavy vehicles.