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Yet another Grey Knight list (i love doing these). I can imagine this having some potential as a competitive list because of the amount of razorbacks and infantry and substantial Anti-Air power. But once again it'll be nice to have opinions on this. I can just imagine the sight of 4 razorbacks on the table.

HQ:
Inquisitor Coteaz-100pts

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor
-3 Servo Skulls
-Psyker with Hammerhand
-Psybolt Ammunition
TOTAL COST 69pts

Troops:
Grey Knight Terminators
-Psycannon
-4 Nemesis Halberds
-1 Daemon Hammer
-Psybolt Ammunition
TOTAL COST-245PTS

Grey Knight Terminators
-Psycannon
-4 Nemesis Halberds
-1 Daemon Hammer
-Psybolt Ammunition-
TOTAL COST-245PTS

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband
-5 Arco Flagellants
-Razorback
-Psybolt ammunition
-Searchlight
TOTAL COST-126pts

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband
-5 Arco Flagellants
-Razorback
-Psybolt ammunition
-Searchlight
TOTAL COST-126pts

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband
-6 Warrior Acolytes
-6 Hotshot Lasguns
-Razorback
-Psybolt ammunition
-Searchlight
TOTAL COST:105PTS

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband
3 Warrior Acolytes
-Razorback
-Psybolt ammunition
-Searchlight
TOTAL COST-63pts

Heavy Support:
Nemesis Dreadknight
-Heavy Incinerator
-Nemesis Greatsword
TOTAL COST-185PTS

Dreadnought
-Searchlight
-2 Twin-Linked Autocannons
-Psybolt Ammunition
TOTAL COST-136pts

Fortifications:
Aegis Defence Line
-Quad Gun
TOTAL COST-100PTS

Exactly 1500pts

The plan is that the Inquisitors go in the Arco Flagellant squads while everyone else either holds objectives and gives supporting fire with one of them manning the quad gun (maybe Coteaz's squad), the servo skulls will protect me from any surprises on the flanks and my Termies can go after the Important units (maybe if i make em a 10-man squad that will increase the brutality). Please reply and comment nicely and gimme your suggestions. More to follow,,.

As someone mentioned earlier, merge your two 5 man terminator squads into one 10 man squad to save points, then combat squad them, save you 20 points on psybolt ammo

I ran razors back when I first started and found they were just easy first blood targets

Considered a stormraven yet?

And for your inquisitor, psybolt ammo is usually a waste of points on a single model, unless its a vehicle

The 25 points you save from the psybolt ammo could get you 3 more acolytes to fill your last razor, or 2 acolytes and one more arco.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
As someone mentioned earlier, merge your two 5 man terminator squads into one 10 man squad to save points, then combat squad them, save you 20 points on psybolt ammo

I ran razors back when I first started and found they were just easy first blood targets

Considered a stormraven yet?

And for your inquisitor, psybolt ammo is usually a waste of points on a single model, unless its a vehicle

The 25 points you save from the psybolt ammo could get you 3 more acolytes to fill your last razor, or 2 acolytes and one more arco.

So something like this then (without a storm raven)?

Inquisitor Coteaz-100pts

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor
-3 Servo Skulls
-Psyker with Hammerhand
TOTAL COST 64pts

Troops:
10 Grey Knight Terminators
-2 Psycannons
-8 Nemesis Halberds
-2 Daemon Hammers
-Psybolt Ammunition
TOTAL COST-445pts

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband
-5 Arco Flagellants
-Razorback
-Psybolt ammunition
-Searchlight
TOTAL COST-126pts

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband
-5 Arco Flagellants
-Razorback
-Psybolt ammunition
-Searchlight
TOTAL COST-126pts

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband
-6 Warrior Acolytes
-5 Hotshot Lasguns
-Melta
-Razorback
-Psybolt ammunition
-Searchlight
TOTAL COST:110PTS

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband
6 Warrior Acolytes
2 Meltas
-Razorback
-Psybolt ammunition
-Searchlight
TOTAL COST-95pts

Heavy Support:
Nemesis Dreadknight
-Heavy Incinerator
-Nemesis Greatsword
TOTAL COST-185PTS

Dreadnought
-Searchlight
-2 Twin-Linked Autocannons
-Psybolt Ammunition
TOTAL COST-136pts

Fortifications:
Aegis Defence Line
-Quad Gun
TOTAL COST-100PTS

Yea that looks good, you got some more models for the saved points, and more models always help.

Also per the most recent FAQ, you dont have to take GK codex powers on your inquisitor, you can roll on the Divination/Pyromancy/Telekinesis table in the BRB if you want

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Yea that looks good, you got some more models for the saved points, and more models always help.

Also per the most recent FAQ, you dont have to take GK codex powers on your inquisitor, you can roll on the Divination/Pyromancy/Telekinesis table in the BRB if you want

Cheers for the Help...

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

Considered a stormraven yet?

If you fit a stormraven into your list, be sure to load it up with the right henchmen. You'd be looking at something like

Stormraven, sponsons, psybolt, MM = 255

DCAx6, CrusaderX2 = 120

375 pts total

I also like sticking an OXI with hammerhand and rad grenades in with them for added impact on the charge.

Don't stick a melee oriented unit in a storm raven. Lets look at what's going on here.

You're paying 255 for an AV12 all around vehicle, normally very fragile but it follows the flyer rules making it incredibly hard to hit. It can choose to become a fast skimmer that is easier to destroy than a predator, that you've equipped with 4 TLd str 7 shots, 3 TLd str 6 shots (or one TLd melta shot) and 6 TLd Str 5 boltguns and four one use missiles. So you hover it, to deliver a unit that puts out 20 str 4 ap 2 attacks. 28 on the charge. It's better with the OXI but still, losing your 255 pt gunship that can continue to pump out all that firepower just to deliver that unit that could be wiped out before it strikes with a strong enough counter attack (can anyone say grey hunters?). Even if you strike with the assassin's power swords or mails, you're still not guaranteed you won't lose them all as they're all still striking at the same initiative. You are spending the points cost of a land raider on something that will die like a chimera. Just because it has an assault ramp does not make it good for delivering an assault unit. If you want to push some power armored acolytes out the back to cap an open objective it flies over, feel free. Just don't risk such a huge investment for one turn of close combat glory.

Also why Hammer hand on the Inq when you could get ignores cover, Rerolling all misses for a target unit, or his own unit? Whatever squad he is with can cast hammer hand.

He prob has the psybolt on the Inq to man the quad gun so it is +1 str shooting.

Dont think the psybolt upgrade on the inquisitor applies to the Quadgun

It gives the list of weapons and auto cannon is in the list.

 Mythra wrote:
It gives the list of weapons and auto cannon is in the list.

Is the Quad-Gun an autocannon? If so, where did you find that the rules tell us that it is?

 Mythra wrote:
Also why Hammer hand on the Inq when you could get ignores cover, Rerolling all misses for a target unit, or his own unit? Whatever squad he is with can cast hammer hand.

He prob has the psybolt on the Inq to man the quad gun so it is +1 str shooting.

The reason why I have hammer hand is mostly to give my arco flagellants an easier time wounding models (mostly against some horde armies). I had Psybolt ammo on my Inquisitor simply because I had the points last time.

I don't know why people like razorbacks, swap the storm raven to a land raider cruesader with psi bolts, and pack that with some close combat guys or terminators etc...

 Rupertrampton wrote:
I don't know why people like razorbacks, swap the storm raven to a land raider cruesader with psi bolts, and pack that with some close combat guys or terminators etc...

But then that unit will immediately become the biggest target to my opponent therefore his firepower will become too concentrated on altering his deployment for the sake of 1 or 2 units, making it harder for me to break the threshold. Whereas with 4 razorbacks the firepower becomes more spread out and my opponent will most likely scramble his deployment, leaving my termies clear to take advantage of any loopholes in his deployment rather than having to slog to a big concentration of enemy fire. Besides i'll have 4 strength 6 twin linked heavy bolters that can acquire many targets than just one big land raider crusader.

I love razorbacks too but it depends on what you put in it.
razorback with 3 naked henchmen is a great cheap troop choice as it is somewhat mobile, has a good long range fire power and costs nothing (62pts for a troop protected by a vehicle and mobile).
However for arco flagelants i would not take them as it is not an asssault vehicle so they have to stay one turn getting shot at and they are not resilient.
And i would prefer crusaders/cultists combo to arco anyway for CAC (GEQ should not be an issue with your psybacks and if they are taking juste 3 henchmen with flamer should be much more efficient pointwise then arcoes)

 bocatt wrote:
Don't stick a melee oriented unit in a storm raven. Lets look at what's going on here.

You're paying 255 for an AV12 all around vehicle, normally very fragile but it follows the flyer rules making it incredibly hard to hit. It can choose to become a fast skimmer that is easier to destroy than a predator, that you've equipped with 4 TLd str 7 shots, 3 TLd str 6 shots (or one TLd melta shot) and 6 TLd Str 5 boltguns and four one use missiles. So you hover it, to deliver a unit that puts out 20 str 4 ap 2 attacks. 28 on the charge. It's better with the OXI but still, losing your 255 pt gunship that can continue to pump out all that firepower just to deliver that unit that could be wiped out before it strikes with a strong enough counter attack (can anyone say grey hunters?). Even if you strike with the assassin's power swords or mails, you're still not guaranteed you won't lose them all as they're all still striking at the same initiative. You are spending the points cost of a land raider on something that will die like a chimera. Just because it has an assault ramp does not make it good for delivering an assault unit. If you want to push some power armored acolytes out the back to cap an open objective it flies over, feel free. Just don't risk such a huge investment for one turn of close combat glory.

You don't understand thus unit.

If you have a Storm Raven in your list, I'd alstill recommend adding some DCAs and Crusaders to it. The SR being an Assault Vehicle opens up some unexpected henchmen fun.

6 DCA and 2 Crusaders clock in at 120 points. This little 8 man unit on the charge out of the Storm Raven can be scary!

(for simplicity sake, no cover, special characters giving extra abilities, etc on either side)

Let's say that there's a group of 10 MEQ on an objective in the open (because you wisely put it there). I'll use Grey Hunters since you mentioned them and SW is the Codex that I have on me at the moment, that and they have counterattack, so adds some danger in assaulting them. The GH have 2 plasma guns, a mark of the wulfen, and a power fist. All for 200 points.

The 2 Crusaders are there to eat overwatch with their 3++. In this example, you're probably loosing just 1 Crusader to overwatch (.63 on average). Put axes on the Crusaders since they're likely going last anyways with I3, and pick up some AP2 in case they're still around.

The DCA go at I6 and will kill 8 MEQ/Grey Hunters on average.

Let's say that the Grey Hunter with the mark of the wulfen is still around and rolled a 4. This gives him 5 attacks while his buddy has 2. The Hunter with the wulfen may have just enough to take down the second crusader. Then, the power fist Hunter will take out 1 DCA.

(if the Hunter with the MoW rolled a 3 or less, then the crusader probably lives and kills the MoW model only to be taken out by the power fist).

Either way, you win combat. On average, the results from this scenario will be 2 dead Crusaders and 1 DCA sliced in half compared to 8 dead Grey Hunters. Granted, they're in a bit of trouble if they get shot at, so this is definitely an end-game maneuver. Still, not too shabby for a small group of henchmen! (and one that cost you 67.5% of the cost for the Grey Hunters).

Do all of this on turn five on an objective in your opponents backfield and not only do you swap control of an objective, but you pick up linebreaker as well =-)


The storm raven loadout that I listed is standard. Play the raven smart, not stupid and put it in position to die needlessly. The real investment here is not the SR but the henchmen inside (120 isn't too much for what can be a game changing unit. Seen it happen enough to be a standard henchmen unit).




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Don't let DCA fool you. With 2 Crusaders up front to eat overwatch the DCA are very deadly.

Here's what an OXI can do. Take 5DCA, 2Crusaders, and an OXI with rad grenades and hammer hand for 175 points. Now, on the charge out of the SR, the 5 DCA will kill all 10 MEQ (average 11 dead MEQ, so overkill by 1), all at I6.

 w0lfgang7 wrote:

 bocatt wrote:
Don't stick a melee oriented unit in a storm raven. Lets look at what's going on here.

You're paying 255 for an AV12 all around vehicle, normally very fragile but it follows the flyer rules making it incredibly hard to hit. It can choose to become a fast skimmer that is easier to destroy than a predator, that you've equipped with 4 TLd str 7 shots, 3 TLd str 6 shots (or one TLd melta shot) and 6 TLd Str 5 boltguns and four one use missiles. So you hover it, to deliver a unit that puts out 20 str 4 ap 2 attacks. 28 on the charge. It's better with the OXI but still, losing your 255 pt gunship that can continue to pump out all that firepower just to deliver that unit that could be wiped out before it strikes with a strong enough counter attack (can anyone say grey hunters?). Even if you strike with the assassin's power swords or mails, you're still not guaranteed you won't lose them all as they're all still striking at the same initiative. You are spending the points cost of a land raider on something that will die like a chimera. Just because it has an assault ramp does not make it good for delivering an assault unit. If you want to push some power armored acolytes out the back to cap an open objective it flies over, feel free. Just don't risk such a huge investment for one turn of close combat glory.

You don't understand thus unit.

If you have a Storm Raven in your list, I'd alstill recommend adding some DCAs and Crusaders to it. The SR being an Assault Vehicle opens up some unexpected henchmen fun.

6 DCA and 2 Crusaders clock in at 120 points. This little 8 man unit on the charge out of the Storm Raven can be scary!

(for simplicity sake, no cover, special characters giving extra abilities, etc on either side)

Let's say that there's a group of 10 MEQ on an objective in the open (because you wisely put it there). I'll use Grey Hunters since you mentioned them and SW is the Codex that I have on me at the moment, that and they have counterattack, so adds some danger in assaulting them. The GH have 2 plasma guns, a mark of the wulfen, and a power fist. All for 200 points.

The 2 Crusaders are there to eat overwatch with their 3++. In this example, you're probably loosing just 1 Crusader to overwatch (.63 on average). Put axes on the Crusaders since they're likely going last anyways with I3, and pick up some AP2 in case they're still around.

The DCA go at I6 and will kill 8 MEQ/Grey Hunters on average.

Let's say that the Grey Hunter with the mark of the wulfen is still around and rolled a 4. This gives him 5 attacks while his buddy has 2. The Hunter with the wulfen may have just enough to take down the second crusader. Then, the power fist Hunter will take out 1 DCA.

(if the Hunter with the MoW rolled a 3 or less, then the crusader probably lives and kills the MoW model only to be taken out by the power fist).

Either way, you win combat. On average, the results from this scenario will be 2 dead Crusaders and 1 DCA sliced in half compared to 8 dead Grey Hunters. Granted, they're in a bit of trouble if they get shot at, so this is definitely an end-game maneuver. Still, not too shabby for a small group of henchmen! (and one that cost you 67.5% of the cost for the Grey Hunters).

Do all of this on turn five on an objective in your opponents backfield and not only do you swap control of an objective, but you pick up linebreaker as well =-)


The storm raven loadout that I listed is standard. Play the raven smart, not stupid and put it in position to die needlessly. The real investment here is not the SR but the henchmen inside (120 isn't too much for what can be a game changing unit. Seen it happen enough to be a standard henchmen unit).




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Don't let DCA fool you. With 2 Crusaders up front to eat overwatch the DCA are very deadly.

Here's what an OXI can do. Take 5DCA, 2Crusaders, and an OXI with rad grenades and hammer hand for 175 points. Now, on the charge out of the SR, the 5 DCA will kill all 10 MEQ (average 11 dead MEQ, so overkill by 1), all at I6.

But after that charge out of the Stormraven, then what?

I don't debate the use of the unit. I just think the Stormraven is a poor delivery system for said unit. Once it hovers, it dies like any other expensive transport. It's a waste of points to transform a flying metal box, bristling with awesome guns into a scrap heap. What happens when the game goes to turn six and your 375 points of awesome gets shot off the board? This is still a shooting game, believe me I wish it wasn't as a blood angels player, but I know the limitations of what is usually my best asset and shouldn't be a throw away unit for anyone really. Not at 200 pts stock.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 georgebaii wrote:


But after that charge out of the Stormraven, then what?

What he said.

Arco-Flagellants

These are actually OK, but their primary issue is that they’re pretty much outshone in every way imaginable by Death Cult Assassins- you’re much better off with the assassins, so you might as well leave them at home.

Crusader

These guys are great- they carry a Storm Shield, and so are fantastic for tanking Overwatch hits on Death Cult Assassin units you may be bringing. Since they’re I3, they should always have an axe, since they strike last against everything that matters anyways. You should have two of these in every combat-oriented Henchman unit you take.

Death Cult Assassins

These are amazing- criminally undercosted with WS5, S4 and A2 base and not one, but TWO power weapons, and a 5++? Heck yeah! Take one sword and one axe. They might be the epitome of glass cannon, but for what they cost you, they’ll easily obliterate something before they die. A very cheap and effective threat to put into that Stormraven which you were going to bring for anti-air, etc anyways.

The arcos have no saves, unless they deep strike right into them a cold wind is going to kill them. Take DAC & crusaders like wolfgang said.

 w0lfgang7 wrote:
Arco-Flagellants

These are actually OK, but their primary issue is that they’re pretty much outshone in every way imaginable by Death Cult Assassins- you’re much better off with the assassins, so you might as well leave them at home.

Crusader

These guys are great- they carry a Storm Shield, and so are fantastic for tanking Overwatch hits on Death Cult Assassin units you may be bringing. Since they’re I3, they should always have an axe, since they strike last against everything that matters anyways. You should have two of these in every combat-oriented Henchman unit you take.

Death Cult Assassins

These are amazing- criminally undercosted with WS5, S4 and A2 base and not one, but TWO power weapons, and a 5++? Heck yeah! Take one sword and one axe. They might be the epitome of glass cannon, but for what they cost you, they’ll easily obliterate something before they die. A very cheap and effective threat to put into that Stormraven which you were going to bring for anti-air, etc anyways.

Hmm, good point. Maybe if i switch my full Arco Flagellants squads with this configuration...

Arco Flagellant
2 Death Cults
2 Crusaders
+Razorback with psyammo +searchlight

...I could then (with either Coteaz or my other Inquisitor) have 3+ invul overwatch protection from the crusaders, 4 attacks straight off from my death cults against basic infantry and (providing hammerhand is successful) have a strength 6 powerhouse of an Arco which can punish any misses from my opponent and all for the same price as the full arco squad with razor backs altogether!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fadolren Warcry wrote:
The arcos have no saves, unless they deep strike right into them a cold wind is going to kill them. Take DAC & crusaders like wolfgang said.

The Arco's have feel no pain as standard btw...just so you know.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ack! Curse my logistical errors, I mis-calculated the terminator pts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Following from my mathematcial errors i've changed the list to a few people suggestions plus my own personal preference...

HQ:
Inquisitor Coteaz-100pts
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor
-3 Servo Skulls
-Psyker with Hammerhand
TOTAL COST 64pts

Troops:
10 Grey Knight Terminators
-2 Psycannons
-8 Nemesis Halberds
-2 Daemon Hammers
-Psybolt ammunition
TOTAL COST-470PTS

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband
-Arco Flagellant
-2 Crusaders
-2 Death Cult Assassins
-Razorback
-Psybolt ammunition
-Searchlight
TOTAL COST:126pts

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband
-Arco Flagellant
-2 Crusaders
-2 Death Cult Assassins
-Razorback
-Psybolt ammunition
-Searchlight
TOTAL COST-126pts

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband
-5 Warrior Acolytes
-4 Hotshot Lasguns
-MeltaGun
-Razorback
-Psybolt ammunition
-Searchlight
TOTAL COST:101pts

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband
5 Warrior Acolytes
-2 MeltaGuns
-Razorback
-Psybolt ammunition
-Searchlight
TOTAL COST-91PTS

Heavy Support:
Nemesis Dreadknight
-Heavy Incinerator
-Nemesis Greatsword
TOTAL COST-185PTS

Dreadnought
-Searchlight
-2 Twin-Linked Autocannons
-Psybolt Ammunition
TOTAL COST-136PTS

Fortifications:
Aegis Defence Line
-Quad Gun
TOTAL COST-100PTS

1499pts in total

Why do you want to keep an arco in the squad instead of another DCA?
Other than that maybe divination and prescience would be better on the inquisitor, i would have to run the maths but reroll hits seems better then just 1+Str

sleekid wrote:
Why do you want to keep an arco in the squad instead of another DCA?
Other than that maybe divination and prescience would be better on the inquisitor, i would have to run the maths but reroll hits seems better then just 1+Str

...And 2 more attacks, at strength 6, besides for the look of the army he looks like a brute/strong bodyguard which is what I imagine a squad of bodyguards to look like which is the theme i'm going for. Well this post got really long, Thanks again everyone for all the suggestions and help (otherwise i would've ended up with not very many models). Thanks everyone.

Just remember FNP doesnt work against Instant Death (weapons with STR double your toughness or higher)

don't forget that the DCA get the attack bonus for having two CC weapons =-)


Hope you enjoy your new list! Can't wait to hear how it performs for you!

In case I didn't put it in any of my other posts....

welcome to the brotherhood!