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 Unholyllama wrote:
If it happens it happens.

People cried that Elder got horribly nerfed when it came out and a couple of months later people found its strengths.

People keep saying this, but I never heard a single person complain about the eldar as a whole being weak when it came out. Our group instantly recognized serpants as being very powerful on the first read etc.

niv-mizzet wrote:

 Unholyllama wrote:
If it happens it happens.

People cried that Elder got horribly nerfed when it came out and a couple of months later people found its strengths.

People keep saying this, but I never heard a single person complain about the eldar as a whole being weak when it came out. Our group instantly recognized serpants as being very powerful on the first read etc.

Someone went back and took stock of the complaints way back when. About thirty percent of people complained about Eldar, versus about Seventy percent with Tyranids.

I don't think they'd ever get hugely nerfed.

You have to buy boxes of biker mobs, and nobs. (or just the bits but w/e killjoy)

That's a seemingly huge disincentive for them to wreck the unit.

 Ugavine wrote:
I'm almost convinced that Orks will get nerfed in general.

I certainly think Dust Cloud will go, possibly replaced by Shrouded.

As others have said, Shouded would be better than what they have now. Rather than a static 4+ cover, they'll ride around with a 3+ thanks to Jink. 2+ if they Turbo boost.

 Zande4 wrote:
I don't thinks individual Ork units will get nerfed I just think the new dex will have so many random tables, wargear, powers, shots, str value, ap value, range etc. that it may be almost unusable.

If the rumours are anything to go by, you may be on the money (unfortunately)
http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/12/ork-rumors-2014.html

This talk of Waaagh! points or Warp points, does not get me excited at all

Thet could bring back the card system.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:
I don't thinks individual Ork units will get nerfed I just think the new dex will have so many random tables, wargear, powers, shots, str value, ap value, range etc. that it may be almost unusable.

If we hear Matt Ward is writing the codex we can probably bet on it unfortunately. And the odds still aren't great if another writer gets a hand on it.

And yet Ward is still one of the better writers, pity huh?

My belief is
Smoke on bike GONE, but they will drop about 5pts
Boys will gain Animosity:( but will be 5pts not each. Woo hoo
Kustom Force Feild will get the shrouded rule.
There will be some new version of Mega Armor to make the plastic kit a dual kit.
Lootas are going to be ruined because everyone has them, and a lot of them.

But those are my personal beliefs and I have NO inside info to go off of. I love my Orks I have sold all other armies and play them exclusively so I Hope what ever happens they stay playable.

The only changes I see that could really nerf Nob Bikers are losing FNP and/or the cybork invulnerable save. Nob Bikers that can be quickly dispatched by Ap3 ignores cover aren't quite as threatening.

Let's hope no GW designer reads this post, though *fingers crossed*

Waaaghpower wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:

 Unholyllama wrote:
If it happens it happens.

People cried that Elder got horribly nerfed when it came out and a couple of months later people found its strengths.

People keep saying this, but I never heard a single person complain about the eldar as a whole being weak when it came out. Our group instantly recognized serpants as being very powerful on the first read etc.

Someone went back and took stock of the complaints way back when. About thirty percent of people complained about Eldar, versus about Seventy percent with Tyranids.

Even then, the large majority of complaints about Eldar WERE justified. They may have an amazingly powerful (ridiculously so in fact) codex, but almost nothing which needed fixing was altered significantly. Instead, Eldar got lumped with Wraithknights, Wave Serpents and absurd rerollable 2++ saves. If none of those were in the codex (or at least done more reasonably, i.e. Wave Serpents can only fire shield once or something) then they really wouldn't be in that good a position. It just so happened that the best two lists remained the best two lists, so everyone now assumes the codex is fantastic - it's not, there's still bad internal balance. The situations have never been comparable and people trying to pretend they are must either be disingenuous or mistaken about the complaining.

Nids are bad because they're doubly penalised for losing their leaders. Even without IB, many units are just bad (hormagaunts, haruspex, lictors) and really didn't need additional problems other than losing fearless. They take the normal problems of GWs inability to balance points and compound it with stymied list building and set backs no other army has to suffer. Sure, you CAN win with them, but it'll be a game more about abusing the objective/random game length mechanics than actually doing anything resembling the fluff. Want to rush the enemy? Suicidal at best, pretty much 0% chance to work. Want an assaulty hive tyrant? No way to make it into combat due to slow comparative movement. Want to force enemies to target small things instead of synapse by presenting two threats? There is no choice - synapse is always the target. It's just a pitiful state of affairs and shows a total lack of understanding of the game. Not the first time it's happened to an army, but always disappointing.

As for Nob Bikers, I would put money on them being slightly nerfed but perhaps cheaper. We'll see.

Let's hope that the nob bikerz get the little 'shrouded' buff and that deffkoptas (cause the new models) get some buffs too in the form of better stats (LD or bigger squads for example) or cheaper in points

than i will ally with myself, just to have 6 fast attack slots available.
Now that i think of it, i will give it a try anyway...

I feel like orks are one of those armies that are never particularly top tier, but that end up being a ton of fun to play... I've got a Bad Moons army in the making that I'm looking forward to playing on the tabletop, and I'm really hoping that the codex gets updates but no real nerfs. I think one of the worst things for orks to potentially get would be animosity - it was bad enough in WHFB, I don't also want to have to deal with it in 40K.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:
I don't thinks individual Ork units will get nerfed I just think the new dex will have so many random tables, wargear, powers, shots, str value, ap value, range etc. that it may be almost unusable.

If we hear Matt Ward is writing the codex we can probably bet on it unfortunately. And the odds still aren't great if another writer gets a hand on it.

Honestly I usually see Kelly being more guilty of random tables. He wrote the Chaos Daemon codex, CSM, and DE. For the most part, he seems to rather enjoy randomness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:
I don't thinks individual Ork units will get nerfed I just think the new dex will have so many random tables, wargear, powers, shots, str value, ap value, range etc. that it may be almost unusable.

Yeah... I can totally see it. It will be the randomness of Daemons+5

Random Mek inventions, all the old zany artillery that takes 30 minutes to resolve a shot (the hop-splat gun, was it?), maybe individual effect tables for the Shokk Attack Gun for every type of target like in the good old days.

Looted Wagons and tanks random, all vehicles are random to represent how they are taken from enemies. A roll of a 1 makes it a fast skimmer, roll of a 2 makes it a skimmer with extra guns, a roll of a 3 makes it a MC .