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Well, half a million is not bad.

I am not sure if a better campaign in and by itself would've helped.

A lot of "flaws" were in the basic design outside the Kickstarter-campaign.

A) Problems with delivering big, complicated pledges.
B) Problems delivering good sculpts from the art.
C) Problems with Ronnies ex-GW-buddy Jake Thornton delivering rules that are up to scratch
D) A "seedy criminal underbelly"-theme that somehow never happend between all those Trekkie-Wet-Dream-Aliens
E) "re-selling" a game they already sold
F) trying to sell DreadBall fans on a "new" DreadBall, when they already have one

(I know E and F are kinda internally contradicting)

It was an odd product start to finish, and it worked "reasonably well" for that, I think.

They may well have been able to milk a bit more out if they'd done things differently

but it's far from a disaster (baring massive drop outs in the last few hours)

they've still taken a sack of cash

New add-on:



Final stretch goal:

One thing that has just occurred to me. The really expensive pledge levels, the $2000 + ones. Hardly any of them have been filled. I would have thought they would have been lined up and ready to go beforehand.

With the miniatures they showed as end result from the previous one?

No thanks.

Hmm

How much would it cost to hire a freelance sculptor to make me a miniature?

Depends on the sculptor, his schedule, the complexity, if it is going to be castable, the amount of design work done beforehand and other factors such as size and medium.

An estimation of 300-500 would not be entirely unreasonable, but it is better to ask.

@SS BWAHAHA, I had to rush to the kickstarter update page to see if those were real or if you were just clever. Still laughing my butt off. Too bad we won't reach FGM...

I think some of this is also due to the somewhat limited appeal to Futuristic Xtreme Sports Games too?

If you look at the DREADBALL XTREME graph, it is almost the mirror image to the DREADBALL graph.

This one had a built in audience, and they went nuts at the start. And that's the bulk of who was going to buy this anyway?

I think Mantic's Warpath KS will get things 'back to normal', and we'll see the 'usual' spikes on both sides.

So..................... with a budget of 3.000, which Mantic is asking (admittedly, it includes a not-quite-400-USD Frenzy pledge), I might get one made? Two even? And not sign off the rights to that miniature to Mantic Games?

Well, yeah. But, it depends. Do you want the model to be used just for you? Or is the thought that people are going to be buying and playing with a model of 'you' the world over?

 Zweischneid wrote:
Hmm

How much would it cost to hire a freelance sculptor to make me a miniature?

Assuming Humaniod character, not riding a dinosuar:

Concept Art - $100~200
Sculptor - $300~500

If you want it molded (assuming Metal) to make extras.. $200 for the master mold, $100 for the production mold, $1ish per metal figure depending on amount of parts.

 RiTides wrote:
Earth Dragon, I know you support them but looking at that graph there's no denying they've bungled this a bit- people jump on like moths to a flame with even so-so campaigns in the last two days, and that is not happening here... (or at least, not nearly to the usual extent, it will have some last day boost, of course).

That's wasn't what I was commenting for Alex. He was complaining that there isn't enough models for him to convert to his other systems. But some of what he is griping about wouldn't have been as needed for DBX, you know, the game Mantic is trying to fund. His response was completely out of context to my response.

I chucked in a dollar as I quite liked some of the concept art but thats about all at this stage.

I have to agree with what others have said. Looking at the amounts it going up by I think a lot of other people are doing the same as me and hedging there bets - worse case scenario I lose 75p. Best case scenario I get some nifty figures for peanuts. I wish I'd done this for deadzone to be honest to get my mits of cheap plastic enforcers.

 Compel wrote:
Well, yeah. But, it depends. Do you want the model to be used just for you? Or is the thought that people are going to be buying and playing with a model of 'you' the world over?

Neither. Just the "feeling" that the 3.000 Mantic is asking might be a tad much if I would want my own personal figure. I guess it wouldn't come with the Mantic marketing and Miiiiiiiillons of other DreadBall players buying it through Mantic to look at my happy face when they play with the MvP in my image.

Of course, I already "immortalized" myself in DreadBall history with Dakka's Zzor Naming Contest (or I didn't, cause credit was never given, but oh well).

 Zweischneid wrote:
So..................... with a budget of 3.000, which Mantic is asking (admittedly, it includes a not-quite-400-USD Frenzy pledge), I might get one made? Two even? And not sign off the rights to that miniature to Mantic Games?

Off topic a bit, but

You'd get a really good mini for that price by a top end sculptor although you'd probably have to wait a fair while

the design your own mini from the first Mierce campaign cost £2000 and came with proper concept art and 10 resin casts too (mini sculpted by Stéphane Cammosetto )



(3 people paid for this only one has been completed so far, one has had the art approved and one is still under discussion),

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
So..................... with a budget of 3.000, which Mantic is asking (admittedly, it includes a not-quite-400-USD Frenzy pledge), I might get one made? Two even? And not sign off the rights to that miniature to Mantic Games?

Off topic a bit, but

You'd get a really good mini for that price by a top end sculptor although you'd probably have to wait a fair while

the design your own mini from the first Mierce campaign cost £2000 and came with proper concept art and 10 resin casts too (mini sculpted by Stéphane Cammosetto )



(3 people paid for this only one has been completed so far, one has had the art approved and one is still under discussion),

Cool. Though GBP 2.000 and USD 3.000 isn't too far off after all.

Not that much, they take the risk from your hands add the extra labor of making the miniature fit in their lore ectr.

Yes, its more than what you would have payed yourself, but you are risk free and they shoulder all the work.

To be fair, Mantic will also include the rules for the customer sculpts. Not saying that adds a crap ton of value to anyone but Mantic as they'll get to sell that, but if you just get your own fig sculpted it won't have Official Mantic Rulz!1!!11!

I kind of assume that any pledge that's well over the sweet spot, or 2x 3x sweet spot, or the "get it all" pledge level are kind of charity spots anyway. Like when they offer the 5000 dollar spot to "come have dinner with the designers, we'll even buy it" pledge level, you probably aren't "getting your money's worth" so much as publicly showing your support with extra funds that you don't necessarily want a material return for. The "get your own model made" pledges feel kind of halfway inbetween to me.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Compel wrote:
Well, yeah. But, it depends. Do you want the model to be used just for you? Or is the thought that people are going to be buying and playing with a model of 'you' the world over?

Neither. Just the "feeling" that the 3.000 Mantic is asking might be a tad much if I would want my own personal figure. I guess it wouldn't come with the Mantic marketing and Miiiiiiiillons of other DreadBall players buying it through Mantic to look at my happy face when they play with the MvP in my image.

Lets break that down a bit...

$3,000 - Painted Rampage + A Dude
-10% (KickAzon Fee)
= $2700
- $100 (Concept)
- $400 (Sculpt)
= $2200
- Rampage ($150 list, going to guess about $75 Cost)
- Painter $??? (105 +1 miniatures, Our goto Guy would be around $20 a fig. so $2120)
= $5 going into the Kickstarter pot afterwards.

 CptJake wrote:
To be fair, Mantic will also include the rules for the customer sculpts. Not saying that adds a crap ton of value to anyone but Mantic as they'll get to sell that, but if you just get your own fig sculpted it won't have Official Mantic Rulz!1!!11!

Yeah, but "official" MvP Rulz!1!!11! might as well not be there, cause you can't really use MvPs in all but the biggest leagues. So what's the point anyhow. All DreadBall MvPs are, in essence, "nice" miniatures for painting/alt-sculpt/house-rule games.

Don't forget that last sponsor they funded lets you field an entire team of nothing but MvPs, so that's always something

 Cyporiean wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Compel wrote:
Well, yeah. But, it depends. Do you want the model to be used just for you? Or is the thought that people are going to be buying and playing with a model of 'you' the world over?

Neither. Just the "feeling" that the 3.000 Mantic is asking might be a tad much if I would want my own personal figure. I guess it wouldn't come with the Mantic marketing and Miiiiiiiillons of other DreadBall players buying it through Mantic to look at my happy face when they play with the MvP in my image.

Lets break that down a bit...

$3,000 - Painted Rampage + A Dude
-10% (KickAzon Fee)
= $2700
- $100 (Concept)
- $400 (Sculpt)
= $2200
- Rampage ($150 list, going to guess about $75 Cost)
- Painter $??? (105 +1 miniatures, Our goto Guy would be around $20 a fig. so $2120)
= $5 going into the Kickstarter pot afterwards.

Fair enough. Missed the painted part. Rampage painted without sculpt is 2.000, so the sculpt is 1.000 by itself. Sounds reasonable.

Earth Dragon wrote:
That's wasn't what I was commenting for Alex. He was complaining that there isn't enough models for him to convert to his other systems. But some of what he is griping about wouldn't have been as needed for DBX, you know, the game Mantic is trying to fund. His response was completely out of context to my response.

Actually, all I'd need to be happy is one more free team in Rage and one more team to spend the freebie on.

The point of having the miniatures pull double duty is to double the number of people buying them, and using that added market to subsidise the cost of making Xtreme bigger. You know, like the Tycho exclusive was supposed to do.

 GrimDork wrote:
Don't forget that last sponsor they funded lets you field an entire team of nothing but MvPs, so that's always something

Yeah, that one is going to be a hoot.

Why buy a newbie Orx Guard (13 MC) when you can just have Buzzcut (11 MC)?
Why buy a plain ol' Human Striker (10 MC) when you can have fething Nightshade (8 MC)?

I'm really looking forward to that one.

I don't think this isn't surging because there isn't a market for futuristic sports games... I think pretty clearly there is! I think it's because, everyone who believes in Mantic enough to jump was already in. Others were waiting to see sculpts... which didn't materialize, so they just pledge a dollar/pound.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
To be fair, Mantic will also include the rules for the customer sculpts. Not saying that adds a crap ton of value to anyone but Mantic as they'll get to sell that, but if you just get your own fig sculpted it won't have Official Mantic Rulz!1!!11!

Yeah, but "official" MvP Rulz!1!!11! might as well not be there, cause you can't really use MvPs in all but the biggest leagues. So what's the point anyhow. All DreadBall MvPs are, in essence, "nice" miniatures for painting/alt-sculpt/house-rule games.

In basic DB, two players can agree (it's in the rules on page 50) to use MVPs in exhibition games without any league, at all.

privateer4hire wrote:


In basic DB, two players can agree (it's in the rules on page 50) to use MVPs in exhibition games without any league, at all.

Two players can agree to play my own self-made rules for my own MvP too.

Either way, that IS how I played with MvPs so far, mostly if at all. Try it. You'll find that they are extremely out of whack, some are massively powerful, others barely equal to non-named players, with no known or apparent correlation to their anyhow low point costs.

Creator Mantic Games 12 minutes ago
hi all, Ronnie here on the comments for the next hour or so - so remember all facts will be well meant but probably incorrect

Heh...