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So me and a couple of friends were talking about the Space Marine game, in particular the weapons in it. The bolt pistol was one-shot, all good there. But the bolter is another matter. In the video game, it's a full-auto weapon. In 40k however, it's a rapid fire weapon. Rapid fire weapons are described (I think in the 40k rulebook) as semi-automatic rifles. So, my friends and I argued for a while about having a system in 40k with full-auto weapons. In the end, the best thing we came up with was to roll 2D6 and apply it to all the full-auto weapons in the squad(effectively making them Assault 2D6, but the 2D6 is given to the whole squad, rather than rolled for individuals). What do all of you think? Is there a use in 40k for full-auto weapons, or is everything fine as it is?

That would make essentially anything with 'Full Auto' rule both extremely underpowered and extremely unreliable. So if the whole squad had full-auto weapons then they'd roll 2D6 for the whole squad, right? For an average of.. You got it, 7 shots. That sucks. 7 shots for a squad of ten men? I'd rather have an Assault 1 weapon thanks..
Aside from this, 40k doesn't need to be any more random than it already is. Stuff that is fully automatic is just Assault 5 or whatever, like the Assault Cannon.
Shootas are Assault 2 etc.
The Assault rule is for guns that are Full Auto, there doesn't need to be another rule for them. Also, I don't think it's the weapon itself that is semi-automatic I think it's how the Space Marines fire it. Of course in the game it'd be fully automatic or it'd suck against numerous foes like Orks.
Space Marines would fire their weapons 1 round at a time (2 up close, thus rapid fire) for two reasons:
1) To conserve ammunition. Boltgun shells are seen as holy and Marines can only carry a certain amount because of how huge they are.
2) To conserve accuracy. Weapons are far more accurate when letting off 1 or 2 shots at a time because there is less recoil and it gives the wielder time to aim each shot for the extra deadliness factor.

I think he meant that each weapon would be "Assault 2d6", rolled in a manner similar to Ork Lootas.

IE, "Each weapon in this squad gets Assault... *roll* 7. So, 70 shots from these ten guys."

No need to make make shooting more powerful.

I've never imagined Bolters to be firing individual rounds each time, rather like a burst for each shot, 2 shots in Rapid Fire range is more akin to 2 bursts of 3-4 rounds each. I can't imagine this idea ever coming into play for balance reasons.

This idea is useless, random and based on misconception.
The fact of weapon firing full auto or not isn't represented by said weapon's type, but by combination of stength, number of shots and fluff. You have automatic assault weapons (like shootas), heavy weapons (heavy bolters, assault cannons), salvo weapons (primarch's wrath, the dakkabanner). Bolters can fire single shots/semi automatic/fully automatic depending on situation. The rapid fire rules for bolters represent marines firing single shots or short bursts at a distant enemy and unleashing a storm of automatic fire when they are close enough to keep accuracy. Adding a new weapon type is not going to help in anything, especially when it's soooo random

Guns should only be that lethal in a game that allows for actual fire and movement type tactics, an actual use of cover and LoSB terrain, and so on. 40k does none of those things as it is fantasy in space.

We need to differentiate between the number of times we get to roll to hit and the number of shots the weapon actually fires. Yes a Missile Launcher and other Heavy 1 weapons are probably firing only once and then pausing to reload or deal with recoil or whatever, but most semi-auto weapons can fire dozens of times in just a few seconds and the weapons that the Autocannon and Heavy Stubber are based on can fire hundreds of rounds per minute.

What we see in the game is an abstraction based on how many shots can be expected to hit in a normal sequence of shots. The stray rounds are not accounted for in order to speed up the game.

Jefffar wrote:
We need to differentiate between the number of times we get to roll to hit and the number of shots the weapon actually fires. Yes a Missile Launcher and other Heavy 1 weapons are probably firing only once and then pausing to reload or deal with recoil or whatever, but most semi-auto weapons can fire dozens of times in just a few seconds and the weapons that the Autocannon and Heavy Stubber are based on can fire hundreds of rounds per minute.

What we see in the game is an abstraction based on how many shots can be expected to hit in a normal sequence of shots. The stray rounds are not accounted for in order to speed up the game.

Also this ^^

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
We need to differentiate between the number of times we get to roll to hit and the number of shots the weapon actually fires. Yes a Missile Launcher and other Heavy 1 weapons are probably firing only once and then pausing to reload or deal with recoil or whatever, but most semi-auto weapons can fire dozens of times in just a few seconds and the weapons that the Autocannon and Heavy Stubber are based on can fire hundreds of rounds per minute.

What we see in the game is an abstraction based on how many shots can be expected to hit in a normal sequence of shots. The stray rounds are not accounted for in order to speed up the game.

Also this ^^

This.

I doubt a Punisher has 5 times the rate of fire of an Assault Cannon (Whose rate of fire is so great so it is used to justify Rending)

not serious but:

Full Auto- A weapon fired in Full Auto mode becomes Heavy X(X equal to str of gun) and has its range reduced by half. No gun with a str higher than 6 can be Full Auto fired.


So if you move you have to snap shot on infantry and you loose alot of range for increased rate of fire.


This would acctually make Assault cannon Dreads and speeders pretty nasty.

A rapid fire weapon isn't a semi-automatic rifle, it's a selective-fire rifle. The one shot at full range mode represents semi-auto fire, the two shots at half range represent automatic fire.