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NOTE: Technically this is about Army Composition, but it involves playstyle so I put it in Tactics versus Army Lists as I'm not posting an army list for review.

Quick question here: I like the aesthetics and fluff of Eldar, but I hate how "sci-fi circus" the army tends to look on the battlefield because each Aspect has its own color scheme, and since I like to stick as close to the fluff as possible that means I wouldn't want to just paint the aspects in the Craftworld colors and call it a day. So that said, is it possible to be competitive with Eldar, and make a competitive army list, without using any aspect warriors at all?

I think that can be easily done. Eldar are a very flexible army right now.

You can either use 10 Guardians in Wave Serpents, Jetbikes or Wraithguards in WS as troops.
Hq as usual Farseer or Autarch on jetbike. Or Spiritseer in case you took some Wraithguards.
Than you can either go all mech (War Walkers, Prisms, Crimson Hunters, etc.) or take more wraiths (Wraithknight for example)

This or you can play a Jetseer Council. Everything there can be painted in one colour.
Well, even all the aspects can be painted in one colour...

There are several routes to take, like a Ghost Warrior army that has a handful of dsperate guardians backing up Wraithguard, letting you bypass Aspects entirely. One of the locals, back in the day, would grab units of guardians with grav platforms and spam marine-killing Starcannons and do fine.

But, your problem isn't with the Aspects so much as with the flying circus look.

A couple of solutions for this. For one, some Aspects will subsume their color to compliment the Craftworld, rather than wave the colors proudly. Dire Avengers could be in the Craftworld colors, but keep the sash for their heritage and still blend. In a similar vane, if there's just one aspect that you enjoy, take them, then paint your army to match *their* scheme, thus unifying the force.

Lastly, you can use an army unifier regardless of the color scheme, such as a back banner or "undersuit"... My Eldar all have a bright yellow undersuit, for instance, that shows through the plates. Thus, the Scorpions are green over yellow, the Avengers are blue over yellow, the Fire Dragons red over yellow (which just looks great!), and so on. The single 'undercoat' unifies the army into a single force.

It's not perfect, but it works.

The Ghost Army concept actually sounds pretty cool, and I really like the Wraithguard models

I think the question might be more pertinent reversed. Can eldar be competitive WITH aspect warriors? I've seen plenty of strong eldar lists, but they revolve around ghost units, jetlock councils, and/or wave serpents. Each of the few eldar lists mine own eyes have come across either don't have aspect warriors at all, or have a relatively minimum amount spent on them almost as an afterthought.

Well, Dark Reapers, Warp Spiders, Swooping Hawks, Fire Dragons, and Dire Avengers are all solid. I have seen some good footlists and the Eldar codex is so great that you can make nearly any its units work.

Well, you could take an army of Guardians in Serpents, or a Jetbike army. Ulthwe generally fields a lot of Guardians on foot and Saim Hann is known for Guardians mounted on jetbikes.

I really like how the Wraithguard looks, is Iyanden/Ghost Warriors still fairly competitive? I know they used to be back in the day but mostly nowadays I see hybrid armies.

I run an Aliatoc army, so luckily DA fit well with the color scheme. The swooping hawks are close enough for me to call it.

On the other hand with what you want to do, I've been running 80 guardians with hawks as the only aspect warriors.

A better question would be if they can be competitive with Aspect Warriors.

Seriously, GJB's are the best unit of the codex (one of the best troop choices in game) Guardians control every vehicle
and 10 Guardians + WS spam is cheese.
Obviously, 5 DA + Serpent is better, but this is only 25 points more expensive and has more guns.

So yes. It can be competitive.

Fluff-wise, the Avatar is taken on by an aspect warrior, IIRC.
But, add that with GJB and other vehicles (Vypers, WW and the 3/4 grav tanks), and psykers.
The Crimson Hunter is an aspect, but the Hemlock isn't, so that's in. HWP, too.

As all said above, there's a lot of the codex that isn't aspects.

Eldar have aspect warriors?

I've heard of some people using the Dire Avenger profile to represent Ulthwe "Black Guardians", which historically had better stats than basic Guardians. It means you wouldn't be able to field weapon platforms, but it would be a very viable way to go if from a MODELLING stand point you didn't want to include aspect warriors.

 soomemafia wrote:
A better question would be if they can be competitive with Aspect Warriors.

Not a bad point, you're only truly without a doubt no questions asked good aspect warriors are Swooping Hawks and Warp Spiders.

Then you can make an argument for Dragons and Dire Avengers.

Then Scorpions have a place...especially with Karandras.

Shining Spears and Dark Reapers fit a niche list.

Banshees.

 ductvader wrote:

 soomemafia wrote:
A better question would be if they can be competitive with Aspect Warriors.

Not a bad point, you're only truly without a doubt no questions asked good aspect warriors are Swooping Hawks and Warp Spiders.

Then you can make an argument for Dragons and Dire Avengers.

Then Scorpions have a place...especially with Karandras.

Shining Spears and Dark Reapers fit a niche list.

Banshees.

This pretty much sums it up.

Warp Spiders are excellent and have no problem fitting in any list.
Swooping Hawks also have their uses.
Dire Avengers are a solid troop choice, but Guardians are cheaper and GJB's better in every way.
Dragons are solid AT, but Eldar can fit a S8AP2 Lance weapon in about every unit so meh.
Socpions are still propably the best CC unit in the codex. But Eldar shooting is more powerful in many ways.
Shining Spears are expensive GJB's that need Exarch and Hit & Run to be even somewhat good.
Dark Reapers excel against SM Bike lists and that's just it.
And then there are Banshees who... Well, at least they guard your other models bravely in home while everything else is in the real war. Well, as real as a war fought with plastic soldiers can be.

Not trying to be pessimistic here, it's just that a few Aspect Warriors are the best in their own game.
Dire Avengers + Spiders + Scorpions are the most best ones for me.

WayneTheGame wrote:
NOTE: Technically this is about Army Composition, but it involves playstyle so I put it in Tactics versus Army Lists as I'm not posting an army list for review.

Quick question here: I like the aesthetics and fluff of Eldar, but I hate how "sci-fi circus" the army tends to look on the battlefield because each Aspect has its own color scheme, and since I like to stick as close to the fluff as possible that means I wouldn't want to just paint the aspects in the Craftworld colors and call it a day. So that said, is it possible to be competitive with Eldar, and make a competitive army list, without using any aspect warriors at all?

Yup.

Here's an old article on a Guardian based army i created a long time ago:
Fun Guardian Army Batrep

The Fact is, Guardians are an absolute steal now. Serpent Spam with Guardians is STRONG and an Avatar can make it stronger yet. their Bladestorming shots at BS 4 are a vast improvement, and makes them one of the most disposable, yet powerful, tools the Eldar can employ. that they can take a special weapon to make them useful more often is icing on the cake. I have only ever owned one box of Dire Avengers and some Guardians painted to be Dire Avengers, but i never found need of them despiute their popularity. In 6E, the Guardians are worth it.

So you can most definitely get away with not using aspect Warriors.

Yes, for all the reasons mentioned above. That said, I think it is pretty easy to avoid a circus look even using aspect warriors. I have a Saim Hane color scheme. My dire avengers are the really only break as they are blue with red accents. The warp spiders are red, black and white, all the vehicles are red, black, and white. My wraiths are red, black, and white. Just don't use a bunch of harlequin.

Thing about Aspects is that each shrine has a different color. They might utilize a main color across each shrine, but that color can still vary. There are plenty of examples in the book of this. They've got the bright blue swooping hawks with the white helmets that've been the studio standard forever, but also show an exarch from a different shrine in much darker blues.

Currently I'm working on the slowest slow build ever of an Yme-Loc army and I've represented the craft world in my Dire Avengers (only units I've got painted in fact) by using charcoal grey and dark orange in the plume, and utilizing a lot of grey and orange in the Exarch's banner depicting the shrine I made up for them.

I actually really like the challenge of incorporating a Craftworld's colors into a scheme of Aspect Warriors and have it not look like a circus. Maybe that's just me.

In agreement with most here, it's entirely within the fluff to fit your aspect schemes in with the craft world colours.

Then again, eldar have so many superb non-aspect units it's entirely possible to be very competitive without them.

Guardians are great, the battle focus rule means they can move very quickly. Windriders are very cheap for their threat range. All of the wraith units are solid, if slow, and wraith guard come with some of the most destructive weapons in the game.

Vehicle wise, wave serpents are silly-good, fire prisms and night spinners will almost always make their points back, vypers are cheap and so maneuverable that their ordnance will never be safe. Hemlocks are good at what they do, and if you're taking rangers/pathfinders the pinning can be hilarious. Watch as their best units go to ground instead of doing anything for turn after turn.

Support batteries deserve some love, too - vibro cannons have all sorts of utility, are dirt cheap, and if all else fails can make your howling banshees go all tingly.

Throw forgeworld into the mix... Hornets are flat out amazing. And the heavy tanks from fw cause other players to go and change their underthings a few times a game.

You won't struggle for HQ either - farseers are incredible and flexible for their points, autarch scan be used to compliment just about any army, and if you're running an iyanden list, a wraithknight warlord is super-manly.

I've probably missed quite a lot out. But the point is - aspect warriors are totally optional, but can add some lovely tactical jellybeans of goodness. And still fit in with the paint scheme with a bit of creativity.

I think the issue though weas whether you can be competitive WITHOUT them, paint or no paint.

Guys come on...it's eldar...if you brought models to a game it tends to be fairly competitive.

LOL. A commentary unto itself.

Jumping on at the end here, but you can easily do a non-aspect warrior Eldar army. I'll also say you can do it without Wraith constructs as well. That's part of what is fantastic about the Eldar codex, and what has pissed a lot of people off; almost all the units are at least decent, if not good, and there is lots of synergy in the book. I personally love aspect warriors, and try to field as many as I can, but I had an idea for a "peasant" Eldar army as well.

Farseers and Autarchs are both great HQ choices.
Guardian squads are good either in serpents or on foot, just give them a warlock to improve their armor or cover save. Rangers are meh, but are situationally good. GJB are obviously about the best troop choice in the game right now.
Vypers are pretty dang good if kept cheap (I like dual shuricannons), and the Crimson Hunter CAN be good, but I'm not sold on it.
Fire Prisms, weapon batteries, night spinners, are all great choices.

Crimson hunters are aspect warriors...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
...and are amazing...it's one of the few units in he book where your success with it will exponentially increase as you practice using it.

My hunters have shredded armies...

 ductvader wrote:
Crimson hunters are aspect warriors...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
...and are amazing...it's one of the few units in he book where your success with it will exponentially increase as you practice using it.

My hunters have shredded armies...

Bah, you're right, forgot they are aspect warriors. Amazing though? Nah. When facing them, I'd say they're mildly annoying, and that's only when they're upgraded to the expensive Exarch.

Ductvader, regarding the Hunters, would you say 1 is enough if you run an Autarch? I've been contemplating getting one instead of my squad of Warp Spiders, as I am in dire need of AA in my list.

 Araenion wrote:
Ductvader, regarding the Hunters, would you say 1 is enough if you run an Autarch? I've been contemplating getting one instead of my squad of Warp Spiders, as I am in dire need of AA in my list.

I run one and an autarch...as I also run 2-3 scatter serpents...and have prescience available for any unit..I've never need more aa...personally contemplating getting myself a wraithfighter though...a hunter is not a great substitute for spiders though...it's more like a faster lighter and aa oriented falcon

I have Prescience also. And my FA slots are heavily contested. I have 3 FA choices(Hawks, Spiders and Spears) and 3 HS choices(Falcon, War Walkers, Wraithknight). So what I would do is change the Falcon for a Night Spinner and change the Spiders for a Crimson Hunter.

I only have 1 Wave Serpent, though, that's why I'm so starved for AA.

 Araenion wrote:
I have Prescience also. And my FA slots are heavily contested. I have 3 FA choices(Hawks, Spiders and Spears) and 3 HS choices(Falcon, War Walkers, Wraithknight). So what I would do is change the Falcon for a Night Spinner and change the Spiders for a Crimson Hunter.

I only have 1 Wave Serpent, though, that's why I'm so starved for AA.

I'd say that making both choices together should keep you much more balanced.

Good choice on the Spinner too, it's my second favorite tank in the game.

1st being the Wave Serpent?

Has the Spinner always(or almost always) paid his points back for you? I'm going OT, I know, but I'd like to know this, as I've only tested him out against a few armies and he did alright, but nothing spectacular.