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 Troike wrote:
I'm wondering, how do we think the SoB and Death Koros would get along? I think that they'd highly respect each other's discipline and fighting effectiveness. But the passionately zealous Sisters might be unnerved by the coldness of the Death Korps.

Im not sure. I slightly think that the sisters of battle would do that. I get a strange feeling the DKOK wouldn't care and just would ignore them, kind of like that kid who you want to be friends with, but they just don't care.

And to Bobthehero

The Space marine chapters get tainted by Chaos, Nearly every part of the IOM has had someone tainted by Chaos. I think it would be very possible for a DKOK man to get chaos infested.
After that theres two options.

!) He shoots himself

2) He retaliates.

The Korps would probably think the Sisters are unprofessional amateurs that show emotion and similar in battle, even if it is fiery rage, zeal etc.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
The Korps would probably think the Sisters are unprofessional amateurs that show emotion and similar in battle, even if it is fiery rage, zeal etc.

Yeah, the DKOK would probably just push them aside and get on with the job.

The sisters aren't known for getting along with anyone, and given that the death korp might be cloned they might think their soulless abominations.

That also, i sense the DKOK as the unforgiving, uncaring solider. Im kind if convinced the SOB would deem them unholy.

 Archie The Death Rider wrote:
That also, i sense the DKOK as the unforgiving, uncaring solider. Im kind if convinced the SOB would deem them unholy.

A construct of the Emperor's will, the perfect soldier.
Resolute in his belief.
Fearless.
Deadly.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Archie The Death Rider wrote:
That also, i sense the DKOK as the unforgiving, uncaring solider. Im kind if convinced the SOB would deem them unholy.

A construct of the Emperor's will, the perfect soldier.
Resolute in his belief.
Fearless.
Deadly.

Well...

I'm pretty sure the SOB help civilians yes?.

I read somewhere that the DKOK practise their marksmanship on them.

 Archie The Death Rider wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Archie The Death Rider wrote:
That also, i sense the DKOK as the unforgiving, uncaring solider. Im kind if convinced the SOB would deem them unholy.

A construct of the Emperor's will, the perfect soldier.
Resolute in his belief.
Fearless.
Deadly.

Well...

I'm pretty sure the SOB help civilians yes?.

I read somewhere that the DKOK practise their marksmanship on them.

Depends what you define as a 'civilian'
If by civilian you mean paragon of all that is good in the world and most fervent worshiper of the Emprah himself, then yes. They like to help civilans.
They don't go around helping old ladies over the road.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
The Korps would probably think the Sisters are unprofessional amateurs that show emotion and similar in battle, even if it is fiery rage, zeal etc.

They may not appreciate the emotion of the Sisters, but I hardly think that they'd class the Sisters as "amateurs". The SoB are some of the Imperium's most elite.

Ironclad Warlord wrote:
The sisters aren't known for getting along with anyone

Untrue. They respect and work well with the Astartes in general, and have an especially good relationship with the Black Templars. They also get along well with Frateris Militia, so they'd really get on well with anyone of sufficient faith.

Ironclad Warlord wrote:
and given that the death korp might be cloned they might think their soulless abominations.

They've never been stated to have any particular dislike of vat-grown humans. They might see it as unnatural, or something like that, but they wouldn't necessarily condemn them as "abominations". They're still regular humans, and they serve the Imperium well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Archie The Death Rider wrote:

Well...

I'm pretty sure the SOB help civilians yes?

Not particularly. Destroying the enemy is the top priority. If anything, the SoB tend to be suspicious of the common citizen, if given any reason to be so.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Archie The Death Rider wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Because they don't? They actually want to die to an extreme (but not in vain! That's important, otherwise they would just mass suicide) for the Emperor.

Their final exercise is a live fire assault of a ruined city on Krieg, if they had any doubts about death and whatnot, it would happen there, but no, they don't care, at all.

I agree with you…i really do. Theres no doubt most Kreigers just want to die a glorious fanatical death for the big E.

But I'm saying there must be some amounts of them who are absolutely scared out of their wits and in agony in blood soaked mud. And that they scream for help and everything.

About the training in the ruins too. They aren't fighting hulking space lizards who want to eat their brains. But still, I'm only talking about a few. The rest are totally all for the glorious death, theres no doubt about that.

There must be some guy scared senseless under a gas mask somewhere in Kreig though.

Noooo.

That would make them deep.

We can't have that.

"I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear." - Nelson Mandela

The Korpsmen do not undergo surgery as a Space Marine does to make him 'fearless'. The Korpsman retains his full range of human emotions and he will be scared, he will feel fear, but he will overcome it because his adherence to obeying orders under fire is strong and the fanatical zeal he has to die for his God-Emperor will carry him on to certain death. Che Guevara wrote the following when he was fighting on Cuba; "During the battle I felt a need to live - this is a weakness I need to correct." That, I personally feel, fits perfectly with the Death Korps. We have real world examples of courage under fire beyond what you'd expect from a soldier, of soldiers fighting to the death without giving in to fear - such as the 21 Sikh's (Battle of Saragarhi).

However there is at least one recorded instance of the Death Korps falling back in fear - during the Siege of Vraks one assault was rebutted heavily and the first wave fled. They smashed into the ranks of the second wave and threw them into confusion and the attack had to be called off.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Archie The Death Rider wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Because they don't? They actually want to die to an extreme (but not in vain! That's important, otherwise they would just mass suicide) for the Emperor.

Their final exercise is a live fire assault of a ruined city on Krieg, if they had any doubts about death and whatnot, it would happen there, but no, they don't care, at all.

I agree with you…i really do. Theres no doubt most Kreigers just want to die a glorious fanatical death for the big E.

But I'm saying there must be some amounts of them who are absolutely scared out of their wits and in agony in blood soaked mud. And that they scream for help and everything.

About the training in the ruins too. They aren't fighting hulking space lizards who want to eat their brains. But still, I'm only talking about a few. The rest are totally all for the glorious death, theres no doubt about that.

There must be some guy scared senseless under a gas mask somewhere in Kreig though.

Noooo.

That would make them deep.

We can't have that.

"I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear." - Nelson Mandela

The Korpsmen do not undergo surgery as a Space Marine does to make him 'fearless'. The Korpsman retains his full range of human emotions and he will be scared, he will feel fear, but he will overcome it because his adherence to obeying orders under fire is strong and the fanatical zeal he has to die for his God-Emperor will carry him on to certain death. Che Guevara wrote the following when he was fighting on Cuba; "During the battle I felt a need to live - this is a weakness I need to correct." That, I personally feel, fits perfectly with the Death Korps. We have real world examples of courage under fire beyond what you'd expect from a soldier, of soldiers fighting to the death without giving in to fear - such as the 21 Sikh's (Battle of Saragarhi).

However there is at least one recorded instance of the Death Korps falling back in fear - during the Siege of Vraks one assault was rebutted heavily and the first wave fled. They smashed into the ranks of the second wave and threw them into confusion and the attack had to be called off.

There! That's why I was basing my idea off of! Thanks mate.

The first fluff about Krieg that I read that was more detailed than 'fearless and seeking to restore honor through death' was Love and Krieg It's entirely fan written, and thus not really cannon at all, but it forms the basis for my head cannon.

 Paimon wrote:
The first fluff about Krieg that I read that was more detailed than 'fearless and seeking to restore honor through death' was Love and Krieg It's entirely fan written, and thus not really cannon at all, but it forms the basis for my head cannon.

Uuuh yeah...

*Sigh* Love and Kreig.

Sappy is better that ultra GRIM AND DARK in my opinion.

 Troike wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
The Korps would probably think the Sisters are unprofessional amateurs that show emotion and similar in battle, even if it is fiery rage, zeal etc.

They may not appreciate the emotion of the Sisters, but I hardly think that they'd class the Sisters as "amateurs". The SoB are some of the Imperium's most elite.

I think amateur is the wrong word here. I can definitely see the Kriegsmen thinking that the Sisters are 'unprofessional' - their combat cultures are just too different. In return, the Sisters will think that the Kriegsmen have no fire, no drive. A Kriegsman cannot be a hero, cannot be a martyr, because to the outside, he does not appear to care.

That sounds like an accurate assessment to me.

especially good relationship with the Black Templars.

So they get along with the most dysfunctional of astartes who worship the Emperor. That still doesn't mean they get along with most Imperial types, or that most Imperial types would like anyone who would follow someone with a name like G O G E Vandire, seriously that name just screams things i'm allowed to say on this site.

Uh, they killed Vandire themselves. And don't you think that propaganda is going to cast the Sisters in a very favourable light historically and presently? The Sisters are big propaganda symbols too, just like the Space Marines. The average IG regiment would probably be thrilled to hear that the Sisters would be fighting alongside them.

Anyway, the BT relationship does demonstrate that they get on well with anyone who is sufficiently faithful towards Big E. They're normally somewhat untrusting of Astartes, but the BT seem to have overcome that with their beliefs and actions.

I never knew the fluff of the DKOK but holy cow those guys sound awesome. I want to start an army of them to ally with my Sisters immediately.

And as for Sisters being em-motionless automatons? Huh? Where'd that idea come from?

Need an example of how personalities can differ within a seemingly mono-paradigm sub-culture? Here ya go. It's my ongoing story of Sisters of Battle. (It was mentioned on page one. Thanks for the shout out!)
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/547273.page

Ironclad Warlord wrote:

especially good relationship with the Black Templars.

So they get along with the most dysfunctional of astartes who worship the Emperor. That still doesn't mean they get along with most Imperial types, or that most Imperial types would like anyone who would follow someone with a name like G O G E Vandire, seriously that name just screams things i'm allowed to say on this site.

Wait, what? Maybe I'm being dense (it wouldn't be the first time), but what's wrong with Vandire's first name?

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Ironclad Warlord wrote:

especially good relationship with the Black Templars.

So they get along with the most dysfunctional of astartes who worship the Emperor. That still doesn't mean they get along with most Imperial types, or that most Imperial types would like anyone who would follow someone with a name like G O G E Vandire, seriously that name just screams things i'm allowed to say on this site.

Wait, what? Maybe I'm being dense (it wouldn't be the first time), but what's wrong with Vandire's first name?

I believe Ironclad was making a reference to a Bruva Alfabusa video, in which he mocks Vandire's name. Basically.

Death Korps of Krieg ally with Sisters under Battle Brothers rules (both armies of Death Korps, including the Assault Brigade which has its own more restrictive allies list, ally with sisters on a Battle Brothers level)

So presumably they get along just fine in most cases.

Let's see...

An army that exists and functions because it believes its homeworld, and thus everyone on it, owes their lives as a debt to the God-Emperor of Mankind, because they failed Him and Krieg, and has to have Commissars to stop them from running directly at the enemy to sell their lives to the God-Emperor, meets the Daughters of the Emperor, who are an elite fighting-force of the Imperium's Ecclesiarchy.

I would think the Death Korps would welcome such a sign of the God-Emperor's favor.

 Psienesis wrote:
I would think the Death Korps would welcome such a sign of the God-Emperor's favor.

I think the Commissars would have conniptions trying to keep both under control. You know how close the Sisters like to get to the enemy!

True, though the Sisters are not under the authority of a Commissar, as a Commissar is an IG officer, to which the Ecclesiarchy is not beholden.

That wouldn't stop the Commissar from trying.

I said conniptions, not success.

Heh, maybe, but I tend to think of Commissars as being more... professional. Also, as a military officer, when you have clearly-defined chains of command, and know who's soldiers are who's, and who answers to who, it really reduces a lot of headaches...

... I mean, after all, these Commissars probably went to school with some of these Sisters! They know better than to tangle with them again!

As a long time DKoK player with almost 200 standing (or kneeling lol) individual soldiers in my army, I think the DKoK would see the sisters reverence as a blessing. I love the fluff behind DKoK and find the grimness of the way they approach their duty as reminder of how tough the universe is. Only in death can they wash away the sins of the past. In the dead men walking book the commissar talks of going to Krieg, to get to know the troops psyche better. He says to the junior commissar “they’re still fighting.” They (DKoK) are the embodiment of “there is only war.” They stopped the rebellion with atomic fire only to rise up again to continue fighting, not out of hate, malice or contempt but to train and deploy a veteran soldier to every battle field the DKoK fight on. They continue a meat grinder on their own planet to insure well trained soldier fight the enemies of the Imperium. Soldiers who shot at each other across no man’s land survive only to be placed in the same unit and don’t even care. It was only training. To serve is to die. I btw hate that Veraks line "they fell back" it’s so far from characteristic of the regiment. I would have believed it more if I said “they faltered and were completely whipped out.” I btw play my Krieg like a real Krieg general should, I would kill every last guy to win. They have a debt to pay.

 Psienesis wrote:
Heh, maybe, but I tend to think of Commissars as being more... professional. Also, as a military officer, when you have clearly-defined chains of command, and know who's soldiers are who's, and who answers to who, it really reduces a lot of headaches...

... I mean, after all, these Commissars probably went to school with some of these Sisters! They know better than to tangle with them again!

I'd hope they were more professional, but from what we have in the supplementary materials, Commissars come in two camps: Hardarses who think they have an Inquisitorial Mandate, or Nice Guys who sometimes shoot people.

Also, much as I love the idea of the Commissar and the Sister knowing each other from Schola, the chances of it actually happening are astronomically small (thus a narratorial certainty).

Would they not have been trained separately in the Schola?

I mean, A Commissar does not exactly need PA training, if nothing else.