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 Kirasu wrote:

See page 1..A knight is not a titan and based on current canon does not have access to either of those..

Who says that Knights aren't titans? They certainly used to be. As far as I am aware the most recent Knight Household fluff was released with Titans Legions in the early 90's.

Knights didn't have void shields but they had their own specalised shield which seems to be alive and well if the rumoured rules are anything to go by.

 Bull0 wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

You're free to disbelieve all you want, but the amount of fake rumors of this magnitude is surprisingly small. Why would anyone bother to invent inaccurate rules, after all? Even trolls usually want to evoke a stronger emotional response than our nattering circle of commentators here has provided for them.

Well, I believe it's happening, I'm just not buying the story about the store manager and the riptide proxies yet. For one thing, if this mythical store manager has the WD with the rules, why aren't there more image leaks?

Well, maybe that store manager is more concerned with running his store than obsessing about rumors on internet forums, and therefore is in no hurry to scan and post pics.

Of course, I'm skeptical of anything I read about upcoming releases these days, especially on certain blogs.

 Alpharius wrote:

 bu11etmagn3tt wrote:
Glad an official imperial knight is coming out. dreamforge models can't be used in a GW store or in tournies or summer long campaigns (at GW)...

Can you even get an actual game in at many GW stores anyway?

God yes. I call my GW, and facebook, that I will be coming over in an hour, or at 4pm, and have 2k in 40k...who wants to game? Etc... Easy breazy! Tons of guys have riptides, wraithknights, lord of skulls.... so an Imp Knight will be welcomed in games at my GW!

 Palindrome wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

See page 1..A knight is not a titan and based on current canon does not have access to either of those..

Who says that Knights aren't titans? They certainly used to be. Knights didn't have void shields but they had their own specalised shield which seems to be alive and well if the rumoured rules are anything to go by.

Fluffilogically speaking, they weren't part of the Titan Legions. So no.

 gorgon wrote:

Fluffilogically speaking, they weren't part of the Titan Legions. So no.

Neither are Eldar titans....

 gorgon wrote:

Well, maybe that store manager is more concerned with running his store than obsessing about rumors on internet forums, and therefore is in no hurry to scan and post pics.
Of course, I'm skeptical of anything I read about upcoming releases these days, especially on certain blogs.

Yet, he found time to run this proxy game. I mean, there are a thousand explanations, they're all hypothetical and they go both ways. It doesn't really matter very much; the point is, I'm not going to nail my colours to the mast over a one-paragraph story from 4chan. I'm not saying people are wrong to believe it, I'm saying I'm personally not putting my faith in the story. It's the kind of thing it's very easy to invent. Photographic evidence isn't.

 Palindrome wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

Fluffilogically speaking, they weren't part of the Titan Legions. So no.

Neither are Eldar titans....

I've been kicking around the hobby since the late 80s, I'm unaware of them ever being referred to as titans.

People have reproduced their entries from the rulebooks, where there is no mention of them being Titans.

Nobody claiming they are Titans in any flavour has ever produced anything solid from GW to support their position.

Knights are not Titans, they are just closely related to them in concept, and often found alongside them on the battlefield.

As I remember they are referred to as small Titans in the Titan Legions book. I no longer have the books however, and it has been a long time since I read them, but I'm sure someone here does.

Either way no one claiming that they are not Titans has ever produced anything solid from GW to support their position.

Visually they obviously are very closely related designs, in fact Warhounds look more distinct from the rest of the Imperial titan designs than Paladins do.

It really doesn't matter but when people pass off supposition as fact I find it irritating.

I've recently seen the rulebook entry from Space Marine, where there isn't a single reference to them being Titans, posted here.

Titan Legions is just a hint early for me, but even if they were referred to as Titans then, it was retconned over 20 years ago.

Omg, do we have to have the 'knights are titans' fight in every one of these threads? Geeze.

 pretre wrote:
Omg, do we have to have the 'knights are titans' fight in every one of these threads? Geeze.

"Knight Titans taste great!"

"No, they're less filling!"

 azreal13 wrote:
I've recently seen the rulebook entry from Space Marine, where there isn't a single reference to them being Titans, posted here.

Titan Legions is just a hint early for me, but even if they were referred to as Titans then, it was retconned over 20 years ago.

There were 2 Titan Legions games, Adeptus Titanicus from the 80's and Titan Legions from the mid 90's, the latter is the one I was referring to and is to my knowledge the most up to date GW derived fluff on Knights.

On a scale of 1 to 10, whether a Knight is a Titan or not ranks a 100% OFF TOPIC rating.

Take that debate elsewhere, gents.

Let's wait for the white dwarf &/or codex that Imp Knights will be in to see if GW now refers to them as "titans" or not. Until then I'd say it is irrelevant to go back and forth.

Let's talk about more substantial rumors regarding imp knights...

Imho

 bu11etmagn3tt wrote:

Let's talk about more substantial rumors regarding imp knights...
Imho

Such as?

 azreal13 wrote:


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/575407.page

If only people taking pictures would take larger ones, without flash...

I can't decide if I like it. Not enough detail, yet! Any hint if it will have monstrous creature stats (Dreadknight/Riptide) or vehicle stats like other walkers?

 Palindrome wrote:
As I remember they are referred to as small Titans in the Titan Legions book. I no longer have the books however, and it has been a long time since I read them, but I'm sure someone here does.

Either way no one claiming that they are not Titans has ever produced anything solid from GW to support their position.

Visually they obviously are very closely related designs, in fact Warhounds look more distinct from the rest of the Imperial titan designs than Paladins do.

It really doesn't matter but when people pass off supposition as fact I find it irritating.

Here you go:
http://i.imgur.com/eIFfuoy.jpg

Also you have it backwards. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. Anyone claiming that they are titans should be providing something solid to support their position.

Are they titans?-Not really, but its certainly the quickest and easiest way to describe and talk about them.

I'm hoping we get a variety of heads and bits for this, maybe some Knight household decor.

Just thinking about the anecdote about the store manager proxying 5 of these... it leaves me skeptical, first who'd let someone play 5 super heavies against them like this in a seemingly quick game; second the impression it leaves isn't much if any... so 1500pts of super heavy vehicles took out the majority of an army... isn't that why you can't really take that in an average game?

Not exactly a fan of these being super heavy. Maybe its just time to start using Epic rules with 40k scale armies?

 xttz wrote:
The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. Anyone claiming that they are titans should be providing something solid to support their position.

Have a look in the fluff section. I never said that they were titans in game, I don't think that they were even super heavies.

 kronk wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/575407.page

If only people taking pictures would take larger ones, without flash...

It's hard to take sneaky hidden pictures without firing the bright flash on your 2004 cellphone while making that loud "shutter" noise.

Then close your mouth so you don't make the shutter noise!

 Palindrome wrote:

 xttz wrote:
The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. Anyone claiming that they are titans should be providing something solid to support their position.

Have a look in the fluff section. I never said that they were titans in game, I don't think that they were even super heavies.

I posted the fluff section. Anything after that page details individual unit types (which goes on to describe them as 'Knight suits' IIRC).

Knights were classed as super-heavy walkers (which allowed them to assault both infantry and Titans), and had similar statlines to Baneblades etc.

Doesn't GW use the word "titan" to describe any large walker? Eldar Titans are called titans, the Hierophant is called a bio-titan.

I'm trying to remember, but I think Epic 40k just referred to anything that was big as a titan.

 xttz wrote:

I posted the fluff section.

So knights only had 1/4 of a page of fluff? I find that hard to believe, not least as that page doesn't even mention the origins of Knight worlds.

 Palindrome wrote:

 xttz wrote:

I posted the fluff section.

So knights only had 1/4 of a page of fluff? I find that hard to believe.

Believe it.

I just grabbed a PDF of the mid-90s game you were referring to.

Turns out that was the page I'd mistaken for an entry from the Space Marine rulebook (same basic look and format that I remember.)

So no, there is not one reference to Knights being Titans, only marching to war alongside them. They are most frequently referred to as armoured suits.

Titans range from scout class (Warhound, Revenant) upwards, a knight is barely half that size.

Goodness sakes....

All the original rules for Human Knights were in Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine 1st ed were published and in White Dwarf 126 (UK) & White Dwarf 182 (UK) ...

"... A Knight is a small combat walker of the Adeptus Mechanicus that is one-man version of a Titan and is smaller than even the smallest class of true Titan..."

&

"...Knights normally deploy in squadrons comprised of several of these war machines..."

&

"...In addition to the Knight war machines"

finally,

"...and Knight Clans already present on some worlds discovered by the humans. The Humans began utilising combat walkers invented by the Eldar and referred to them as "Knights"."

Only EVER refered to as COMBAT WALKERS & WAR MACHINES, in addition, in several places where titans are mentioned with Knights, they do separate the two as different from eachother.

see
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Knight#Canon_Conflict

BOT!

So what's at stake with regard to Knights being or not being Titans? Will there be tabletop rules changes?

 Veritek83 wrote:
So what's at stake with regard to Knights being or not being Titans?

Pedantry.

That's really it.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Doesn't GW use the word "titan" to describe any large walker? Eldar Titans are called titans, the Hierophant is called a bio-titan.

I'm trying to remember, but I think Epic 40k just referred to anything that was big as a titan.

That doesn't make the people saying Knights aren't Titans incorrect. It could be in imperial language the 'titan' is a walker classification that only applies to all variants of the Warhound, Reaver, Warlord and Emperor classes, and when the imperials met xenos races with walkers of similar size to the aforementioned four they naturally named them xenos titans. Frankly I don't understand why people can't bend their mind to consider the word 'knight' as a classification. You got mini-battlesuits like Space Marines and Terminators, you got Dreadnoughts, you got baby-carriers, you got Knights and you got Titans.

 azreal13 wrote:

Believe it.

I still don't as I distinctly remember Knights being referred to as small titans, that is after all what they are. Incidentally both the 40K wiki and the 40k lexicanium agree with me.