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Yeah, one Knight is okay. It is Knights as primary detachment which really sucks.

Ah, oaky. I also play against these 2 players, and one was doing his Iron Warriors army (with IK) against the BA player. BA player just meant the Iron Warriors player shouldn't even have one, but it was a test game, fjust for fun game. His mumblings were just to that fact. He'd face an IK (or several) in an official list (after the codex comes out, we will know what that is).....

I do look forward to the inevitable ork looted conversion.

TiamatRoar wrote:
Yea, but Lord of Skulls and Brass Scorpions can only be taken in Escalation and take up the Lord of War slot, unlike Knights that are their own normal 40k army.

I would think it would be a simple exchange here:

"I would like to use a knight detachment."
"I am fine with that as long as you don't mind my lord of war detachment".

That leaves two paths: Either the original player is fine with the lord of war detachement and both get their big boys, or they aren't and neither get their big boys.

Knight detachments are just as "optional" as lord of war detachments from escalation since both are considered "normal 40k" now.

Skriker

Ranor wrote:
I do look forward to the inevitable ork looted conversion.

look no further.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/590733-Looted%20Knight.html?w=600

 krazynadechukr wrote:

Ranor wrote:
I do look forward to the inevitable ork looted conversion.

look no further.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/590733-Looted%20Knight.html?w=600

Needs MOAR DAKKA!

 Lord Scythican wrote:
Yeah i really don't get this "they shouldn't be even allowed in regular games" . From what i have seen they are pretty balanced with Wraith Knights and Riptides. So strange...you can probably go back last year and find the same kind of posts regarding those models too. I came to the conclusion years ago that the vast majority of people will find something wrong with just about everything. First it is "40K has become stagnant, i want something fresh. I want more codexes!" Now it is complaining about too many new models changing the game every few months and too many codexes!

The primary difference is that riptides and wraith knights are not super heavies. Super heavies are much more resilient than standard walkers just as super heavy tanks are more resilient than standard tanks.

Not everyone who is unhappy seeing knights in every game is also on the "40k has become stagnant" bandwagon. I see knights not needing a lord of war detachment to be as stupid as GW adding flyers to the game and not immediately faqing every codex to include some valid flyer or flyer defense options beyond a stupid ADL with quad gun. They make a paradigm shifting change in the rules and once again give only certain forces in the game access to that new ability. It just makes people more annoyed than anything else. This will annoy people who have no access to an IK detachment in their army, and will annoy people who do have them and find their knights excluded from tournies and the like or people just refusing to play against them because of the knights.

Skriker

Just finished watching the build/paint videos from GW. Pretty cool. I might have to use some of their techniques instead of my "airbrush everything" one.

 Therion wrote:
A lot of tournaments ban escalation and stronghold assault but don't ban any 40K codices. If you'd play in any of them you'd forfeit a game and wait 3 to 4 hours for the next game to start.

I see plenty reasons for people who play Knights to not allow lords of war. The most obvious one is of course that all the competitive lords of war take a royal dump on Knights.

And it would be how difficult for tournement organizers to add the Imperial Knight Codex to their ban list? Not difficult at all. Of course people who play knights aren't going to want to see lords of war. That takes away the advantage of being the only force on the table with super heavy walkers.

Skriker

 krazynadechukr wrote:

Ranor wrote:
I do look forward to the inevitable ork looted conversion.

look no further.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/590733-Looted%20Knight.html?w=600

That is amazing! We need more of that going on.

 Skriker wrote:

 Lord Scythican wrote:
Yeah i really don't get this "they shouldn't be even allowed in regular games" . From what i have seen they are pretty balanced with Wraith Knights and Riptides. So strange...you can probably go back last year and find the same kind of posts regarding those models too. I came to the conclusion years ago that the vast majority of people will find something wrong with just about everything. First it is "40K has become stagnant, i want something fresh. I want more codexes!" Now it is complaining about too many new models changing the game every few months and too many codexes!

The primary difference is that riptides and wraith knights are not super heavies. Super heavies are much more resilient than standard walkers just as super heavy tanks are more resilient than standard tanks.

Aren't they also 'Monstrous Creatures' and thus also more resilient than 'standard walkers'?

"Standard walkers" aren't very good at all in 6th...

nareik wrote:
Damn, imagine the money and time you spent on getting your IK to the table, maybe for it's very first outing, and your opponent straight up harshes your buzz like that. They really should have gone over the rules properly with each other before starting their game. At least that way the BA player could mix up his list, or the two could swap opponents with another pair.

That said, there has to be more to the story than we're being told. A single IK is still only one model, most scenarios can't really be won of the back of a single model, especially considering blood angels tend to have a few ways to quickly deliver anti-armour.

When I pick and pack an army for play at the local store, or should say, "when I USED to do so", I didn't have a bunch of extras to mix up my list if someone dropped a surprise on me that I was completely unpreprared for. A single IK would not be too bad, but to suddenly find oneself facing 5 of them with an army that was maybe expect to see at most a single armored unit on the other side of the table and it could be a serious problem. Also depending on the day of the week you may be stuck playing who you are playing because there are no other players out there to swap with.

There is ALWAYS more to the story than you're being told, no matter the topic. Yes a single IK is only one model, but some players have a problem with ignoring that big obvious threat on the table. I really like facing opponents who buy a big obvious target and expect it to win the game for them, because you can easily skirt around it, isolate it or feed it smaller bites of your army while you deal with everything else they have. Soon the game is over, you have won and the big obvious target did next to nothing the whole game.

Skriker

I can't see Knights being a problem for most tournament lists. For that reason alone, if nothing else, I don't think these will be banned... it also really helps that all the rules to use them are in the codex and not in Escalation.

These may be solved by the updated rulebook in May, anyway. The release is too close (under a month) to AdeptiCon for inclusion, and the next really big tournies will have time to see how things shake out before having to decide, I think.

I have the book and answering questions over here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/583433.page

 krazynadechukr wrote:

Ranor wrote:
I do look forward to the inevitable ork looted conversion.

look no further.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/590733-Looted%20Knight.html?w=600

IK as deffdread. That is a pretty sweet conversion.

Skriker

 Skriker wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:

Ranor wrote:
I do look forward to the inevitable ork looted conversion.

look no further.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/590733-Looted%20Knight.html?w=600

IK as deffdread. That is a pretty sweet conversion.

Skriker

MegaDeffDread I'd think

 krazynadechukr wrote:

Ranor wrote:
I do look forward to the inevitable ork looted conversion.

look no further.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/590733-Looted%20Knight.html?w=600

Awesome-sauce. My only niggle is that the guns don't look very orkish to me. But to be fair there's no equivalent yet, unless they used bits from the Stompas to replace the weapons??

Got the dex, here's a rule summary, save yourself the $50.

The knight detachment is separate from allies 1-3 can be taken, Do not score

Cannot ally with Chaos, Daemons, Crons, Orks or Nids.

Allies of convenience with Eldar and Grey Knights

Desperate allies with Dark Eldar and Tau

Imperial Knight Armies
These rules are for the primary detachment of knights:
Knights are scoring and one is the warlord.

Knightly ranks
"Players that want to include knights apparent or seneschals in their games must roll a dice for each of their knights errant or knights paladin (other then the warlord) at the same time as warlord traits and refer the knightly rank table below to see what the rank that knight has"
1: Knight apparent. Subtract 1 from the knights Ws and Bs. in addition a apparents ion shield confers a 5+ invulnerable save instead of the normal 4+
2-5: Knight. Standard rules
6: Seneschal. Add 1 to the knights Ws and Bs. In addition a knight seneschals ion shield confers a 3+ invulnerable save insteaf of the normal 4+

Warlord table:
The warlord is always a Seneschal
1. Master of the Hunt: All friendly knights in 12" add +1 to run or charge range
2. Fearsome Reputation: Enemy units within 12" of the warlord use the lowest leadership value
3. Master of the Joust: The Knight warlord rerolls failed to hit rolls in any assault phase in which he successfully charges into close combat
4. Master of the Field: The Warlord up to D3 friendly knights have outflank
5: Master of Siege: The warlord and all friendly knights add +1 to rolls they make on the building damage table
6: Indomitable: The warlord has "It will not die"

So can knights be taken in games not using the escalation rules?

 ironicsilence wrote:
So can knights be taken in games not using the escalation rules?

Yes.

A quick read through the various entries for how to use them in games as a Primary Detactchment or Allie only refer to the BRB. No mention of escalation is in those paragraphs. The IK rules seem to be independent of Escalation, and have all rules for running them in the book. There is no need for the Apoc or Escalation book at all.

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that Chaos cannot take these as an IK attachment..... I can understand Nids, orks, and other zenos army's sure, but Chaos should have access to these knights. It just doesn't make sense.......

Unless you take into account that there could be a Dataslate or the like called Codex: Chaos Knights at some point...

Then it makes perfect sense.

I'd guess a Codex Chaos knights in the future. Cant think of any reason why there wouldnt be.

I assume that Chaos knights will have very different weapon options & be possessed so have lower BS. Also the iconography will be different & maybe even be similar in style to the new Hellbrutes.

 ironicsilence wrote:
I'd guess a Codex Chaos knights in the future. Cant think of any reason why there wouldnt be.

I wouldn't hold my breath. None of the 'new' imperial things have been mirrored by chaos in a long long time. If anything the pic in white dwarf of an imperial knight standing next to a lord of skulls cements that GW sees one as the counter point to the other. That is about as close as I think we are going to get.

 ironicsilence wrote:
I'd guess a Codex Chaos knights in the future. Cant think of any reason why there wouldnt be.

Because they want Chaos players to buy more Skulldozers?

Thing is, skulldozer requires escalation while knights don't, so chaos players probably won't buy skull dozers anyways whether they can buy knights or not unless they are willing to buy and play escalation or Apoc (alongside other players willing to play Escalation or Apoc)

I think you'll find people are just as willing to play against a skulldozer as they are against an imperial knight. Those that refuse the to play against the former will likely refuse to play against the latter.

How to get your knights legs in a bending stance... you can bend either leg, or both.....

 krazynadechukr wrote:
"Bending the legs"

The suspense is killing me! And then....?