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Sorry, but this question has been bugging me, would the emperor really want his imperium to kill a civilian for having a bolter and arresting them for having a bolter shell,l etc. etc.

No.

And this topic should probably be in the Background board.

Nope. Suffice to say, the imperium today would be a bit of a clusterfeth in his eyes.

I believe Alfabusa made a series of videos of what would most likely happen if the Emperor found out what Terra's government's been up to over the years.
As it turns out, being on psychic life support gives one quite a potty-mouth.

Soz if this is the wrong place.

One of the great ironies of the 40k setting is that it's nothing like how he wanted it to be. He didn't want to be venerated as a god, he didn't want religion to even be a thing in his Imperium, but most people worship him as a divine being, Chaos runs rampant, and frankly nothing worked out how it was supposed to.

Youtube 'If the emperor had a text-to-speech device'

Heresy, everything is going just according to keikaku (keikaku means plan).

 Brother SRM wrote:
One of the great ironies of the 40k setting is that it's nothing like how he wanted it to be. He didn't want to be venerated as a god, he didn't want religion to even be a thing in his Imperium, but most people worship him as a divine being, Chaos runs rampant, and frankly nothing worked out how it was supposed to.

exactly this!

It's actually the exact opposite. He wanted science to prevail over religion, he wanted advancement, not stagnation. He wanted acceptance, not abhorrence.
He wanted humanity to prevail, the job of the Space Marines to be over and for them to probably be able to return to normal society.
He probably also wanted to be alive, but yano, not everything turns out the way we want it to.

 daddyorchips wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
One of the great ironies of the 40k setting is that it's nothing like how he wanted it to be. He didn't want to be venerated as a god, he didn't want religion to even be a thing in his Imperium, but most people worship him as a divine being, Chaos runs rampant, and frankly nothing worked out how it was supposed to.

exactly this!

Not entirely, he killed untold numbers of people to unite the imperium, and its still united. They also keep the imperium united through the slaughter of countless numbers. Seems like he got what he deserved for being "slowed" (despite the fluff saying there is nothing his intellect could not over come, so dumb!), not listening to warnings etc. In short he should have shot himself and spared humanity from ever evenknowing he existed.

If you havent gathered I really dont like the emperors back story, not only is it offensive to many people in what it suggests it also doesnt make sense that such a "smart" "super" "human" could mess up so badly in his aims. I preffered it when I knew nothing about the emeror besides he is a magical corpse god.

but according to fluff, no its not what he wanted, but in my opinion its what he deserved. He now has to sit there watching his subjects knowing that all the wrongs being done (that where happening when he was around for the large part) are all his fault. like being on life support but watching the people around you committ satanic rituals sacrificing babies and goats over you. then having happy fun time in the blood and corpses.

To be fair he was warned by the eldar apparently and he was so smart (according to fluff) that he didnt listen... his fault entirely.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 daddyorchips wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
One of the great ironies of the 40k setting is that it's nothing like how he wanted it to be. He didn't want to be venerated as a god, he didn't want religion to even be a thing in his Imperium, but most people worship him as a divine being, Chaos runs rampant, and frankly nothing worked out how it was supposed to.

exactly this!

Blah blah blah long speech

The Emperors main goal was to bring back humanity to its glory age and unite the imperium into the empire it once was. While he may have killed tons of people in the process, a united humanity is better than a fractured one, which in no way would've or couldve survived against the threats imposed upon it. All in all, most of what he did was for the greater good of humanity.
Keep in mind as well that alot of the backstory on the emperor is speculated, or taken from the religious fanaticism of present imperium. Ergo, hes not actually invincible, or super smart; people just say that because they believe he actually is a god, asserted through mass propaganda.
Also, if you dont mind me asking, what is it that is so offensive about him to so many people?
I personally am of the opinion that if the heresy never happened, and the emperor continued to rule the galaxy for the next ten thousand years, the Imperium would be a pretty awesome and ass kicky place.

Jollydevil wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 daddyorchips wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
One of the great ironies of the 40k setting is that it's nothing like how he wanted it to be. He didn't want to be venerated as a god, he didn't want religion to even be a thing in his Imperium, but most people worship him as a divine being, Chaos runs rampant, and frankly nothing worked out how it was supposed to.

exactly this!

Blah blah blah long speech

The Emperors main goal was to bring back humanity to its glory age and unite the imperium into the empire it once was. While he may have killed tons of people in the process, a united humanity is better than a fractured one, which in no way would've or couldve survived against the threats imposed upon it. All in all, most of what he did was for the greater good of humanity.
Keep in mind as well that alot of the backstory on the emperor is speculated, or taken from the religious fanaticism of present imperium. Ergo, hes not actually invincible, or super smart; people just say that because they believe he actually is a god, asserted through mass propaganda.
Also, if you dont mind me asking, what is it that is so offensive about him to so many people?
I personally am of the opinion that if the heresy never happened, and the emperor continued to rule the galaxy for the next ten thousand years, the Imperium would be a pretty awesome and ass kicky place.

Well I hear kids talk about it to new people and they literally yell things like "and he hates and kills religious people" as the first big thing. So many parents never bring their kids back to our club after hearing those statements from 8 year olds. I understand the cult in 40k is an extreme, bad and unlikable one but for a product marketed at kids I dont think it should imply what it does 9after all it probably was not made with kids in mind to begin with). I see a lot of people get putt off due to the implied message of the story and well it puts me off too. I am not a relidious person but I do respect other cultures, values and so forth and to me the horus heresy kinda subtly spits on other people. Even comments like above "science prevailing over religion" and so forth, it kinda draws in needless hate and issues into the hobby, without it I know that there would be at least 8 additional players at my club, although they where young its good to keep the hobby going.

Personally I would have made the emperor evil as hell, then Ironically after managing to hold onto his empire at nearly the cost of his life, he is ironically seen as a god and worshipped by humanity. To put it as if we started worshipping hitler for all he has done haha. In my opinion much more grim etc.

Most people who enjoy the hobby see nothing wrong with it, which is fine as its just a story. But it leaves a sour taste on my mouth overall.

Hell to the no. If he was able he would kick seven shades of gak out of every high lord of terra along with all the other big cheeses.

I think youre looking to far into things. The point of religion in 40K isnt to state that religion is evil, or that "science will prevail", or any of that. Its to create a link to real world things such as the actual Spanish inquisition, in which religion was used as a tool to control and terrify, and to justify invasion and killing.
Personally, I like the way the story turned out. It gives a sense of impending doom, as if everything is going downhill.
The game isnt marketed towards 8 year old kids for a reason. Most of them are not old enough to fully grasp the values and the actual meaning of things in the Imperium.
I started 40K in the 4th grade. That puts me at around 8 years old (wow!). But at the time I was more interested in the hobby side and the fantasy universe. If someone of my age (at the time) isnt so like minded, they probably shouldnt be playing 40K yet.
After all, though the player base might be younger, in its roots it is an adult tabletop game.

Jollydevil wrote:
I think youre looking to far into things. The point of religion in 40K isnt to state that religion is evil, or that "science will prevail", or any of that. Its to create a link to real world things such as the actual Spanish inquisition, in which religion was used as a tool to control and terrify, and to justify invasion and killing.
Personally, I like the way the story turned out. It gives a sense of impending doom, as if everything is going downhill.
The game isnt marketed towards 8 year old kids for a reason. Most of them are not old enough to fully grasp the values and the actual meaning of things in the Imperium.
I started 40K in the 4th grade. That puts me at around 8 years old (wow!). But at the time I was more interested in the hobby side and the fantasy universe. If someone of my age (at the time) isnt so like minded, they probably shouldnt be playing 40K yet.
After all, though the player base might be younger, in its roots it is an adult tabletop game.

Thats the point I am making, its roots are are far different to know, and it is marketed to kids nowdays (in my opinion) and yes you are right, kids that are like that probably shouldnt be playing 40k, but nobody can stop them and so on, I just think given the usual age of players the horus heresy could have been written differently. It wasnt the point of the story I know, I just said its what it implies or hints at. Not healthy for some kids to read.

 Swastakowey wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:
I think youre looking to far into things. The point of religion in 40K isnt to state that religion is evil, or that "science will prevail", or any of that. Its to create a link to real world things such as the actual Spanish inquisition, in which religion was used as a tool to control and terrify, and to justify invasion and killing.
Personally, I like the way the story turned out. It gives a sense of impending doom, as if everything is going downhill.
The game isnt marketed towards 8 year old kids for a reason. Most of them are not old enough to fully grasp the values and the actual meaning of things in the Imperium.
I started 40K in the 4th grade. That puts me at around 8 years old (wow!). But at the time I was more interested in the hobby side and the fantasy universe. If someone of my age (at the time) isnt so like minded, they probably shouldnt be playing 40K yet.
After all, though the player base might be younger, in its roots it is an adult tabletop game.

Thats the point I am making, its roots are are far different to know, and it is marketed to kids nowdays (in my opinion) and yes you are right, kids that are like that probably shouldnt be playing 40k, but nobody can stop them and so on, I just think given the usual age of players the horus heresy could have been written differently. It wasnt the point of the story I know, I just said its what it implies or hints at. Not healthy for some kids to read.

Lol, no it isn't. While GW may try to target children, very few children will enjoy having to wait 24 hours before being even capable of a miniature (and then likely resulting with some crummy fig suffocating under paint. They may try to market for children, but the playerbase and those interested (or capable of fully understanding) the fluff will always be 17+.

W40K being a child's game is one of the more humorous things on the internet.

And the Horus Heresy is currently decent. Dumbing it down for children would not only piss off the fanbase, but make it even worse. Besides, as long as Chaos and the Dark Eldar exist, W40K is not remotely for children. As for the Emperor, while suffering from crippling author stupidity and not entirely well written, he's one of the greatest characters in W40K, save after Vulkan (who's a actually a decent human being by modern standards). Killing millions is completely justified if the end result is the only possible way for humanity to survive outside of Chaos- as the only other means of survival would be to fully embrace the Dark Gods, which will likely reap a greater body count in the end.


And on the subject of ''oh noes, it insults religious people!!", like us atheists haven't been on the receiving end of the reverse for the past millennium. It's fiction. Who cares if greatly offends a group of people? That's there problem. There's no reason nobody should be able to enjoy it, it's simply subjective taste.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:
I think youre looking to far into things. The point of religion in 40K isnt to state that religion is evil, or that "science will prevail", or any of that. Its to create a link to real world things such as the actual Spanish inquisition, in which religion was used as a tool to control and terrify, and to justify invasion and killing.
Personally, I like the way the story turned out. It gives a sense of impending doom, as if everything is going downhill.
The game isnt marketed towards 8 year old kids for a reason. Most of them are not old enough to fully grasp the values and the actual meaning of things in the Imperium.
I started 40K in the 4th grade. That puts me at around 8 years old (wow!). But at the time I was more interested in the hobby side and the fantasy universe. If someone of my age (at the time) isnt so like minded, they probably shouldnt be playing 40K yet.
After all, though the player base might be younger, in its roots it is an adult tabletop game.

Thats the point I am making, its roots are are far different to know, and it is marketed to kids nowdays (in my opinion) and yes you are right, kids that are like that probably shouldnt be playing 40k, but nobody can stop them and so on, I just think given the usual age of players the horus heresy could have been written differently. It wasnt the point of the story I know, I just said its what it implies or hints at. Not healthy for some kids to read.

Lol, no it isn't. While GW may try to target children, very few children will enjoy having to wait 24 hours before being even capable of a miniature (and then likely resulting with some crummy fig suffocating under paint. They may try to market for children, but the playerbase and those interested (or capable of fully understanding) the fluff will always be 17+.

W40K being a child's game is one of the more humorous things on the internet.

And the Horus Heresy is currently decent. Dumbing it down for children would not only piss off the fanbase, but make it even worse. Besides, as long as Chaos and the Dark Eldar exist, W40K is not remotely for children. As for the Emperor, while suffering from crippling author stupidity and not entirely well written, he's one of the greatest characters in W40K, save after Vulkan (who's a actually a decent human being by modern standards). Killing millions is completely justified if the end result is the only possible way for humanity to survive outside of Chaos- as the only other means of survival would be to fully embrace the Dark Gods, which will likely reap a greater body count in the end.


And on the subject of ''oh noes, it insults religious people!!", like us atheists haven't been on the receiving end of the reverse for the past millennium. It's fiction. Who cares if greatly offends a group of people? That's there problem. There's no reason nobody should be able to enjoy it, it's simply subjective taste.

I said its targeted to children, just like you said. I think it would be a bad book if it insulted anybody, theres no reason for it. And who cares what happened in the past, it happened, move on to make now a better place by not repeating mistakes... just saying thats their problem solves nothing and actually makes the world a worse place. Im not religious but I dont blame some religious lady for her ancestors (and yours, and mine, and everybodies) for what they did, grow up a bit.

As for the kids thing, it is marketed at kids, look at GWs only advertisment made for television. Just because they dont understand it (like most kids movies they watch) or are any good at it doesnt mean its not marketed to kids.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:
I think youre looking to far into things. The point of religion in 40K isnt to state that religion is evil, or that "science will prevail", or any of that. Its to create a link to real world things such as the actual Spanish inquisition, in which religion was used as a tool to control and terrify, and to justify invasion and killing.
Personally, I like the way the story turned out. It gives a sense of impending doom, as if everything is going downhill.
The game isnt marketed towards 8 year old kids for a reason. Most of them are not old enough to fully grasp the values and the actual meaning of things in the Imperium.
I started 40K in the 4th grade. That puts me at around 8 years old (wow!). But at the time I was more interested in the hobby side and the fantasy universe. If someone of my age (at the time) isnt so like minded, they probably shouldnt be playing 40K yet.
After all, though the player base might be younger, in its roots it is an adult tabletop game.

Thats the point I am making, its roots are are far different to know, and it is marketed to kids nowdays (in my opinion) and yes you are right, kids that are like that probably shouldnt be playing 40k, but nobody can stop them and so on, I just think given the usual age of players the horus heresy could have been written differently. It wasnt the point of the story I know, I just said its what it implies or hints at. Not healthy for some kids to read.

Lol, no it isn't. While GW may try to target children, very few children will enjoy having to wait 24 hours before being even capable of a miniature (and then likely resulting with some crummy fig suffocating under paint. They may try to market for children, but the playerbase and those interested (or capable of fully understanding) the fluff will always be 17+.

W40K being a child's game is one of the more humorous things on the internet.

And the Horus Heresy is currently decent. Dumbing it down for children would not only piss off the fanbase, but make it even worse. Besides, as long as Chaos and the Dark Eldar exist, W40K is not remotely for children. As for the Emperor, while suffering from crippling author stupidity and not entirely well written, he's one of the greatest characters in W40K, save after Vulkan (who's a actually a decent human being by modern standards). Killing millions is completely justified if the end result is the only possible way for humanity to survive outside of Chaos- as the only other means of survival would be to fully embrace the Dark Gods, which will likely reap a greater body count in the end.


And on the subject of ''oh noes, it insults religious people!!", like us atheists haven't been on the receiving end of the reverse for the past millennium. It's fiction. Who cares if greatly offends a group of people? That's there problem. There's no reason nobody should be able to enjoy it, it's simply subjective taste.

I said its targeted to children, just like you said. I think it would be a bad book if it insulted anybody, theres no reason for it. And who cares what happened in the past, it happened, move on to make now a better place by not repeating mistakes... just saying thats their problem solves nothing and actually makes the world a worse place. Im not religious but I dont blame some religious lady for her ancestors (and yours, and mine, and everybodies) for what they did, grow up a bit.

As for the kids thing, it is marketed at kids, look at GWs only advertisment made for television. Just because they dont understand it (like most kids movies they watch) or are any good at it doesnt mean its not marketed to kids.

Because we all know completely neutral political correctness is fun for everyone, and certainly doesn't spoil the point of a franchise where everything is a shade of extremely dark grey.

Besides, I personally find the idea of a curious parent reading into the fluff of their young child's Dark Eldar army to be hilarious.

I never said everything, it can be as dark as possible, but if they are gonna market it to kids then it shouldnt contain all that. Thats all im saying, and its not really hillarious. Lucky for those kids that parents dont normally read that stuff or im sure many kids will not be playing. Also lucky most kids play space marines... or tau.

Thanks guys. <roleplaying on>. I will make it my blood angels job to destroy all the currupted in the imperium.

 megatombuscus wrote:
Thanks guys. <roleplaying on>. I will make it my blood angels job to destroy all the currupted in the imperium.

Thats awesome, playing the fanatic can be so much fun. Good luck on your purging

Thanks.

The Emporer wanted no religion at all but he unwantingly became a god.

The irony is that the Ministorum's bible, the Lectitio Divinitatus, was written by Lorgar.

Lorgar was one of the Primarchs who fell to chaos during the heresy. So the Imperial Church is following a heretical document.

That's why I love this setting - so much irony and dark humor

Of course not. It's just surviving. The Emperor wanted it to thrive. Whether or not he intended to be worshiped as a god is debatable, but it isn't debatable that he certainly wished for something better than what the Imperium currently has.

I would gather that the Emperor would not have wanted to be worshiped, as much campaigning as he did against destroying those who followed false gods. Assuming of course, he didn't think he was the "true god" for his Imperium to follow.

I never said everything, it can be as dark as possible, but if they are gonna market it to kids then it shouldnt contain all that. Thats all im saying, and its not really hillarious. Lucky for those kids that parents dont normally read that stuff or im sure many kids will not be playing. Also lucky most kids play space marines... or tau.

I started with Warhammer myself when I was 8 or 9 and i think i am quiet a tolerant person. Somehow its a modern attitude that everything offered to children has to be political correct and without any kind of violence. Well I enjoyed shows like Tom and Jerry, the bud spencer and terence hill stuff and everything of the Warhammer universe.

As Long as their parents remember them that all of this is fiction i would rather say its a good way to confront children with this Topics. Youre able to connect them with fun while telling your children whats wrong and whats right. Most of the times when children start doing something wrong its the fault of their parents or false friends, not the fault of a game they Play or a book they read.

Just my 2 Cents.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:
I think youre looking to far into things. The point of religion in 40K isnt to state that religion is evil, or that "science will prevail", or any of that. Its to create a link to real world things such as the actual Spanish inquisition, in which religion was used as a tool to control and terrify, and to justify invasion and killing.
Personally, I like the way the story turned out. It gives a sense of impending doom, as if everything is going downhill.
The game isnt marketed towards 8 year old kids for a reason. Most of them are not old enough to fully grasp the values and the actual meaning of things in the Imperium.
I started 40K in the 4th grade. That puts me at around 8 years old (wow!). But at the time I was more interested in the hobby side and the fantasy universe. If someone of my age (at the time) isnt so like minded, they probably shouldnt be playing 40K yet.
After all, though the player base might be younger, in its roots it is an adult tabletop game.

Thats the point I am making, its roots are are far different to know, and it is marketed to kids nowdays (in my opinion) and yes you are right, kids that are like that probably shouldnt be playing 40k, but nobody can stop them and so on, I just think given the usual age of players the horus heresy could have been written differently. It wasnt the point of the story I know, I just said its what it implies or hints at. Not healthy for some kids to read.

Lol, no it isn't. While GW may try to target children, very few children will enjoy having to wait 24 hours before being even capable of a miniature (and then likely resulting with some crummy fig suffocating under paint. They may try to market for children, but the playerbase and those interested (or capable of fully understanding) the fluff will always be 17+.

W40K being a child's game is one of the more humorous things on the internet.

And the Horus Heresy is currently decent. Dumbing it down for children would not only piss off the fanbase, but make it even worse. Besides, as long as Chaos and the Dark Eldar exist, W40K is not remotely for children. As for the Emperor, while suffering from crippling author stupidity and not entirely well written, he's one of the greatest characters in W40K, save after Vulkan (who's a actually a decent human being by modern standards). Killing millions is completely justified if the end result is the only possible way for humanity to survive outside of Chaos- as the only other means of survival would be to fully embrace the Dark Gods, which will likely reap a greater body count in the end.


And on the subject of ''oh noes, it insults religious people!!", like us atheists haven't been on the receiving end of the reverse for the past millennium. It's fiction. Who cares if greatly offends a group of people? That's there problem. There's no reason nobody should be able to enjoy it, it's simply subjective taste.

I said its targeted to children, just like you said. I think it would be a bad book if it insulted anybody, theres no reason for it. And who cares what happened in the past, it happened, move on to make now a better place by not repeating mistakes... just saying thats their problem solves nothing and actually makes the world a worse place. Im not religious but I dont blame some religious lady for her ancestors (and yours, and mine, and everybodies) for what they did, grow up a bit.

As for the kids thing, it is marketed at kids, look at GWs only advertisment made for television. Just because they dont understand it (like most kids movies they watch) or are any good at it doesnt mean its not marketed to kids.

The books themselves arent insulting anyone. Theyre telling a story. And just like any other story, if you look deep enough, youll find something that will piss someone off somewhere. The Disney movie Snow White doesnt have any black people in it. Does that make it a racist movie?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MasterOfGaunts wrote:

I never said everything, it can be as dark as possible, but if they are gonna market it to kids then it shouldnt contain all that. Thats all im saying, and its not really hillarious. Lucky for those kids that parents dont normally read that stuff or im sure many kids will not be playing. Also lucky most kids play space marines... or tau.

I started with Warhammer myself when I was 8 or 9 and i think i am quiet a tolerant person. Somehow its a modern attitude that everything offered to children has to be political correct and without any kind of violence. Well I enjoyed shows like Tom and Jerry, the bud spencer and terence hill stuff and everything of the Warhammer universe.

As Long as their parents remember them that all of this is fiction i would rather say its a good way to confront children with this Topics. Youre able to connect them with fun while telling your children whats wrong and whats right. Most of the times when children start doing something wrong its the fault of their parents or false friends, not the fault of a game they Play or a book they read.

Just my 2 Cents.

+1 to this

No but if snow White had a dwarf leader who killed off all the black dwarfs then was left with 7 white ones to mine the gold then it would be offensive. If horus heresy contained no mentioed religion until the cult situation then it would have been great in my opinion. After all a truly good leader would tolerate people's views not slaughter them until the rest obeys.

Im not blaming the book im blaming the people marketing the book at an audience who are too young to grasp it and take it how it is.

I never blamed the books.

Also you guys need to open your minds a bit, its easy to find book you agree with is fine for people to read because thats
easy.

I will say no more but as I said earlier a book marketed for kids should not contain issues like this.

Problem is, Swas, most people here grew up on the phrase "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded".