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So I have been playing hordes with my wife recently, she bought into circle because she likes the models, werewolves and such. I got started in trollbloods. We probably both spent around 200 bucks, but she is not strategically minded and is fed up with losing. I tried explaning her army was very finesse focused, with tricks to give that edge, and mine was very take a hit then retaliate, so much more beginner friendly, but she dident care, or really care to do any research into how her tactics really work (reading the boards or watching batreps) she just wants to plop down and play. I can see her point of view, but its still a huge investment to just shelf forever. She says she is interested in warmachines, specifically convergence of crysis, again for the models. My question is this first. How newb friendly are they. What I read seems there kinda the same, very finesse and fragile. I tried to get her into khador, for the tough to remove warjacks and good infantry.

Is there a way to build crysis that is tough as nails, and very mistake friendly or should I just tell her not to waste her money, as it will be more of the same?


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Also which army is the most beginner friendly, march across the board and slap an opponent around without having to put a ton of thought into it? Not that she cant, she just doesn't seem willing to learn unless she is excited by something, and for her that means winning at least half the time.

I tried throwing games, a couple were obvious, and even offered a points handicap, but she found that kind of insulting. So I am out of ideas besides just getting a board game like heroquest where its co-op for something fun to do.

If she isn't willing to bother and learn some tactics there isn't much you can do.

Circle is pretty finesse heavy but only relative to other faction. The entire game is very much finesse to some extant.


CoC would be a little easier because of much more durable things but there is still the element of synergy that needs to be followed.

The battle box and several Jacks would be a good start. A unit of infantry and some of the servitors would be good too.

Also which army is the most beginner friendly, march across the board and slap an opponent around without having to put a ton of thought into it?

No faction fits that description. This is a game you need to put some time, effort, and thought into winning. But they should be easier than Circle.


As for getting excited about the fluff, I'd pick up a bunch of the faction books. including the Mk1 books(you can get them on the PP e-reader app for a song)

Read the fluff, pick up some of the novels. That should make her more interested.

TT wargames are as much about the fluff as about playing the game, painting, and building the models. Its a multidimensional hobby, not a board game.


Unfortunately there isn't a whole lot of fluff about the Convergence yet. They were just a side faction in the fluff until last year.

As someone who started the game with CoC...they aren't beginner friendly... The focus allocation cascade-waterfall-rubix-cube alone took me almost more time to figure out than the rest of my turn once I started playing at higher points levels. I guess that one might actually be easier on a new player since they're not used to the traditional method of focus allocation, but I'm still expecting major whiplash when I pick up a 2nd faction. "where'd all my free focus go?"

Also, our models, aren't exactly the greatest. They only get over the top awesome when you have ~3 of them working together. Again it's like anything else in the game where synergy is king, but it feels like our models start lower and the synergy makes a much bigger difference than to most factions, so if you mess up one little gear in the clockwork contraption that is your turn you aren't going to be going anywhere fast.

As far as simpler starting factions Khador might be a good place to start. They always struck me as being easier to play, "apply winter-guard to the affected area". If you want to stick in Hordes then maybe try Skorne?

I'm really not sure. I'm kinda a naturally synergistic player and I'm pretty good at seeing what stuff supports each other. It's the actual "rubber meets the road" tabletop stuff I'm really bad at

If she just wants move and smash then you may want to look at Skorne. I'm not saying that there aren't combos and tactics but the Titans can take a beating and certainly give as good or better than they take.
On the Warmachine side you may want to give Cryx a look. They have a lot of debuffs and have a very well warranted saying, "Don't panic just apply banes" (or something to that effect). She may enjoy the feeling of cheating while using Cryx and you don't have to worry about focus allocation a whole lot since Cryx usually doesn't run a lot of Jacks at one time.

Convergence is probably the least newb-friendly Warmachine faction available. Their focus-bouncing tactics and army-wide synergy is an absolute must for the army to do well. They are clockwork themed and their playstyle is very much like a a clockwork mechanism.

If every piece does its part right and in the correct order, then everything is great and the whole mechanism performs extremely well. Once things start to fall apart via losing key models, taking incorrect turn order, or sending the wrong model after the wrong target then you really start to fall apart big time. Yes, the same can be said of all factions, but CoC is particularly vulnerable to it.

If she doesn't want to take the time to really learn the ins and outs of her faction, I would steer well clear of CoC. Menoth might be worth a shot. Their synergies are more static - choir buffs warjack, insert defensive Upkeep here - and they can drop down a beatstick army and be happy doing it.

I'd say Khador is the most noobie friendly.

I'd agree with Leo on the Cryx. That's what I started with (and I'm still using ) and they do seem rather straight forward.

 Emperors_Champion wrote:
I'd agree with Leo on the Cryx. That's what I started with (and I'm still using ) and they do seem rather straight forward.

Really?? I don't know why but I've never got the hang of Cryx why would you say that? Doesn't the whole soul addition to focus make it tricky?

IMO Cryx are very newbie friendly. The reason? They have great casters and infantry that are very forgiving to play since they are so good.

Also, Cryx often can lose 90% of their army and still win, especially with an assassination at the end.

*edit* Also, Cryx is one of those factions that tend to force people to play your game. Which means it is not as important if you are as knowledgeable about other peoples armies. Other armies often require you to know the enemys models almost as well as your own. That means there is a lot more for people to learn.

I'd have her start off with pDenny, a couple arcnodes, a single heavy and a unit or two. There is a reason why bane thralls are so popular.

migooo wrote:

 Emperors_Champion wrote:
I'd agree with Leo on the Cryx. That's what I started with (and I'm still using ) and they do seem rather straight forward.

Really?? I don't know why but I've never got the hang of Cryx why would you say that? Doesn't the whole soul addition to focus make it tricky?

Not really.

Souls turn into extra Focus, kill the living and get more of them. Not really too many tricks to it.

 Mordekiem wrote:
IMO Cryx are very newbie friendly. The reason? They have great casters and infantry that are very forgiving to play since they are so good.

Also, Cryx often can lose 90% of their army and still win, especially with an assassination at the end.

*edit* Also, Cryx is one of those factions that tend to force people to play your game. Which means it is not as important if you are as knowledgeable about other peoples armies. Other armies often require you to know the enemys models almost as well as your own. That means there is a lot more for people to learn.

I'd have her start off with pDenny, a couple arcnodes, a single heavy and a unit or two. There is a reason why bane thralls are so popular.

I have to just completely disagree with this. Their units are generally soft and easy to kill which means if you make a mistake, you are going to suffer big time for it. Just about any army in the game can lose a very large quantity of their army and still win since assassination is a victory condition always. Look at any khador list running the butcher. You could literally lose everything in the army and still win if you can get butcher into charge range of the enemy warcaster and that generally goes for the vast majority of casters. No matter which faction you play, you need to have knowledge of other factions which is a huge reason why new players lose so much as they gain experience in other army's mechanics.

Just because a cryx warcaster is good does not make an army noob friendly, even with the "best" warcaster, if you dont know how to use it and you know nothing about your opponent, you will lose frequently.

Honestly, I dont think there is a noob friendly faction. She is not going to win many games if she doesnt put the time and effort into learning the game outside of which units look cool.

migooo wrote:

 Emperors_Champion wrote:
I'd agree with Leo on the Cryx. That's what I started with (and I'm still using ) and they do seem rather straight forward.

Really?? I don't know why but I've never got the hang of Cryx why would you say that? Doesn't the whole soul addition to focus make it tricky?

Like others already said, the Souls into Focus is pretty simple and really only a bonus, their Casters still generate Focus like any other Caster but if they've collected a few souls the turn before then it stacks up. I actually don't get Souls too often as I like to try and keep my caster safe(ish) so unless I have something collecting souls for them then they just use their std Focus. That said I recently ran a Terminus list and he slaughtered a unit and on the following turn had 13 Focus to charge the caster with!

I'm certainly no expert at this game (or any other really as I tend to jump from one to the other ever 6 months or so! ) but I really do find them pretty straight forward.

Warmahordes is not a very good game for casual players.

Find something more casual that doesn't rely on buff stacking/ synergy/ ccg levels of complexity.

KingKodo wrote:

 Mordekiem wrote:
IMO Cryx are very newbie friendly. The reason? They have great casters and infantry that are very forgiving to play since they are so good.

Also, Cryx often can lose 90% of their army and still win, especially with an assassination at the end.

*edit* Also, Cryx is one of those factions that tend to force people to play your game. Which means it is not as important if you are as knowledgeable about other peoples armies. Other armies often require you to know the enemys models almost as well as your own. That means there is a lot more for people to learn.

I'd have her start off with pDenny, a couple arcnodes, a single heavy and a unit or two. There is a reason why bane thralls are so popular.

I have to just completely disagree with this. Their units are generally soft and easy to kill which means if you make a mistake, you are going to suffer big time for it. Just about any army in the game can lose a very large quantity of their army and still win since assassination is a victory condition always. Look at any khador list running the butcher. You could literally lose everything in the army and still win if you can get butcher into charge range of the enemy warcaster and that generally goes for the vast majority of casters. No matter which faction you play, you need to have knowledge of other factions which is a huge reason why new players lose so much as they gain experience in other army's mechanics.

Just because a cryx warcaster is good does not make an army noob friendly, even with the "best" warcaster, if you dont know how to use it and you know nothing about your opponent, you will lose frequently.

Honestly, I dont think there is a noob friendly faction. She is not going to win many games if she doesnt put the time and effort into learning the game outside of which units look cool.

Sa'll good. But I disagree with your logic. I personally don't find Cryx units that soft or easy to kill. Bane thralls have tough and stealth. Satyxis raiders have a DEF of 14+ and immune to blasts.

And I agree about running an assassination caster. And even non-assassins can do it. But IMO Cryx can do it even better.

But I agree about no real "noob" faction. You have to put time into this game to learn to play and learn your units and others. It's not for everyone and it is not an easy game. But Cryx does give new players some nice advantages. They worked for me when I was new and I've seen them work for complete newbs who had trouble running other factions.

I am quite surprised how many people missed the key words..

she bought into circle because she likes the models... interested in warmachines, specifically CoC, again for the models.

Cryx and Skorne look great but it does not sound it would impress his wife (unless it was the Tharn models that she likes, than try those factions)

Question to ask is, does she plan to play them with your mates or just against you?

If it is just against you than handicap yourself (assuming she does not actually check points) or play different factions/combos that she has a better chance of beating (No heavies?)

Just my two cents


-Dert

 DerT84 wrote:
I am quite surprised how many people missed the key words..

she bought into circle because she likes the models... interested in warmachines, specifically CoC, again for the models.

Cryx and Skorne look great but it does not sound it would impress his wife (unless it was the Tharn models that she likes, than try those factions)

Question to ask is, does she plan to play them with your mates or just against you?

If it is just against you than handicap yourself (assuming she does not actually check points) or play different factions/combos that she has a better chance of beating (No heavies?)

Just my two cents


-Dert

Its just me so far, shes afraid of playing others and being humiliated for being bad. She isn't terrible, but I have been playing tabletop wargames since 40k 3rd ed launched, so have a huge advantage in experience. Hell my 5th game ever I beat a guy who had been playing warmachine for 3 years already. I guess I can try harder to throw the game or handicap myself, but It still feels like im insulting her without her knowing.

Everyone loses at first.

Against more experienced opponents you can easily expect to lose at least your first 20-30 games of Warmachine. The game is that skill dependent. And the only way to get skill is the play and lose. Losing is the best way to learn.

Every time she loses, go over it and see what could be done better and remember it for next time. Throwing your game will be no fun for you and will only make her feel worse.

 Orock wrote:

 DerT84 wrote:
I am quite surprised how many people missed the key words..

she bought into circle because she likes the models... interested in warmachines, specifically CoC, again for the models.

Cryx and Skorne look great but it does not sound it would impress his wife (unless it was the Tharn models that she likes, than try those factions)

Question to ask is, does she plan to play them with your mates or just against you?

If it is just against you than handicap yourself (assuming she does not actually check points) or play different factions/combos that she has a better chance of beating (No heavies?)

Just my two cents


-Dert

Its just me so far, shes afraid of playing others and being humiliated for being bad. She isn't terrible, but I have been playing tabletop wargames since 40k 3rd ed launched, so have a huge advantage in experience. Hell my 5th game ever I beat a guy who had been playing warmachine for 3 years already. I guess I can try harder to throw the game or handicap myself, but It still feels like im insulting her without her knowing.

Hey
I have an idea to help is their a specific model she likes?
If it's a warlock cool take that with one beast, if it's a beast take a warlock, you take a similar sized force. And try to do really small games, add a figure say every other game If she wins if she doesn't she take an additional while you take your original selection.

Couple of thoughts.

Warmachine is typically more noob friendly than Hordes because being locked out of your focus by loosing war beasts is not fun. Warcasters will at least get their focus even if all the jacks are dead.

For more user friendly armies, they need to have lots of armor and damage boxes to soak the enemy damage. The other option is to have a warcaster which turns off parts of the game. Such armies are Trolls, Khador and Cygnar gunline with pHaley.

I'd let her use your trolls and see if that works out better as they are more forgiving. You can always proxy another army until she finds a build she likes.

My own fiancee was getting frustrated with the game (ironically, she owned Trolls), but the meta in our area is fairly competitive.

So, when a Journeyman league rolled around, she jumped at the chance and started up a second faction with some painting commission cash she had. This let her start on the ground floor and play with folks who were still figuring things out like she was (while I played the guys who were vets starting second armies). She had a blast, won most of her games, and found she REALLY likes Cygnar (and loves painting them).

Sometimes you have to be a noob, and it's a good thing. I also like to play casters I'm just figuring out against her so it puts us on a level field. She's figuring out her army still, and this way so am I and she wins a fair number of games now.

Indeed, it could simply be that it's the fear of playing others that's holding her back, especially if among those others there are noobs ripe for the picking (people like me who save 3 focus to use Arcantrick Bolt specifically and then forget to spend those 3 focus completely)

If you play Trolls, get her Cryx. They are Trolls worst matchup and are pretty straight forward to play. Don't let her play Convergence as they have order of activation issues and I think Trolls matchup pretty good against them.

I'd say let her proxy her army of miniatures she likes as whichever army suits her playstyle best. Shouldn't be too hard to find a "counts-as" system that isn't too difficult to follow.

Tell her to follow the rules. Play like you have a pair is clearly in there but probably anatomically difficult

Have you tried swapping armies for a few matches to show her you don;t handle circle that much better?

Have you tried battle box games as it sounds like you have way more wargame experience than she does.

Bullockist wrote:
Tell her to follow the rules. Play like you have a pair is clearly in there but probably anatomically difficult
.

Different pair.

I always try to go 50/50 when I get in the habit of playing someone regularly. Your goals aren't to get better, just to have fun. I would say play some poor lists against her. You will still enjoy trying to get sub-par lists to work, and she will enjoy beating you.