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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/17 01:14:58
Subject: shield breaker
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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No it says that any other saves can be taken after allocation. If anything it gives a model two chances to save.
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/17 01:15:38
Subject: shield breaker
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The Hive Mind
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champagne_socialist wrote: Happyjew wrote:You don't use the rules for mixed saves, because the vindicare rules do not tell you to. Therefore, you default to the normal rules and allocate wounds after taking saves.
the vindicare rules state that sves are taken after allocation. It specifically states that.
No, it does not. At all. You're mis-stating the actual rule.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/17 01:18:23
Subject: shield breaker
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Dakka Veteran
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Happyjew wrote:No it says that any other saves can be taken after allocation. If anything it gives a model two chances to save.
any other saves that have not been lost die to the ammo. it says remaining saves (if any) can THEN be taken.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/17 01:21:42
Subject: shield breaker
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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champagne_socialist wrote: Happyjew wrote:You don't use the rules for mixed saves, because the vindicare rules do not tell you to. Therefore, you default to the normal rules and allocate wounds after taking saves.
the vindicare rules state that sves are taken after allocation. It specifically states that.
Considering the rule was posted and no where does it save to allocate before saves. Shield Breaker says what happens _when_ it is allocated. Dead shot says _who_ allocates it but neither specific when it is allocated thus default to page 15 which is _after_ saves for _same_units and _before_ saves for _mixed_ units.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/17 01:39:11
Subject: shield breaker
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The Hive Mind
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champagne_socialist wrote: Happyjew wrote:No it says that any other saves can be taken after allocation. If anything it gives a model two chances to save.
any other saves that have not been lost die to the ammo. it says remaining saves (if any) can THEN be taken.
So cite permission to allocate before saves for non mixed units.
Because the Vindicaire rule doesn't give you that permission.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/17 09:02:24
Subject: shield breaker
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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champagne_socialist wrote: Happyjew wrote:No it says that any other saves can be taken after allocation. If anything it gives a model two chances to save.
any other saves that have not been lost die to the ammo. it says remaining saves (if any) can THEN be taken.
You are mistaking redundancy for permission.
It does not say "allocate then take saves" - that is something you have made up. This is because in 5th, you always allocated then took saves
In 6th, for Same Saves, NOT mixed saves, you take saves FIRST. The shield breaker rule then states you can take any remaining saves after removing the inv save, however you HAVE NO remaining saves - because the rules state you only take one save.
You are, Rules wise, wrong. Pretty much noone plays it any other way, but that doesnt alter that you are incorrect.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/18 00:29:59
Subject: shield breaker
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Dakka Veteran
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nosferatu1001 wrote:champagne_socialist wrote: Happyjew wrote:No it says that any other saves can be taken after allocation. If anything it gives a model two chances to save.
any other saves that have not been lost die to the ammo. it says remaining saves (if any) can THEN be taken.
You are mistaking redundancy for permission.
It does not say "allocate then take saves" - that is something you have made up. This is because in 5th, you always allocated then took saves
In 6th, for Same Saves, NOT mixed saves, you take saves FIRST. The shield breaker rule then states you can take any remaining saves after removing the inv save, however you HAVE NO remaining saves - because the rules state you only take one save.
You are, Rules wise, wrong. Pretty much noone plays it any other way, but that doesnt alter that you are incorrect.
I am corect
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/18 00:32:26
Subject: shield breaker
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The Hive Mind
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It's easy to say that. Impossible to cite rules that support you.
You'll note the rules quoted that disagree with you. Cite rules to support your position please.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/18 00:38:56
Subject: shield breaker
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Dakka Veteran
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rigeld2 wrote:
It's easy to say that. Impossible to cite rules that support you.
You'll note the rules quoted that disagree with you. Cite rules to support your position please.
read the whole conversation again and you will see why i have my position. You can either disagree or agree but why people keep commenting is beyond me. I am not going to change my mind so why keep commenting?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/18 01:05:25
Subject: shield breaker
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Because your wrong and have been proven wrong. Happy threw out this little example of how there is an exception to almost every rule, and you took personal offense to it and shouted him down like a child (on pg2) because you dont like the fact that you were wrong. Now you keep saying your right over and over, but yet to cite any rules to back up your position (because there are none). If your not going change your mind, then you walk away.
This forum is for RAW and when someone cites incorrect information, then there will be comments showing that they are incorrect.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/18 01:08:12
Subject: shield breaker
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Dakka Veteran
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Fragile wrote:Because your wrong and have been proven wrong. Happy threw out this little example of how there is an exception to almost every rule, and you took personal offense to it and shouted him down like a child (on pg2) because you dont like the fact that you were wrong. Now you keep saying your right over and over, but yet to cite any rules to back up your position (because there are none). If your not going change your mind, then you walk away.
This forum is for RAW and when someone cites incorrect information, then there will be comments showing that they are incorrect.
I believe I m correct so who are you trying to convince?
you are wsting your breath I wont give in.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/18 01:18:00
Subject: shield breaker
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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You can believe anything you want sir, it doesnt magically change the facts for anyone else on the planet.
But, that is a whole nother topic.
You roll to hit. If the unit contains models that all have the same save (i.e. storm shields on all models for a 3++) you then make said invunerable save since the AP1 on the shot negates the 2+. If the save is failed you then allocate to the model you want, killing it or removing its invunerable for the remainder of the game.
This is the RAW in the rulebook. It is not RAI, I believe, however that is not what you were arguing about. Most people play it that the way you argue and that is the way it works in units with mixed saves.
You have to consider that the Grey knights codex is not yet updated to 6th yet, so the wording on allot of rules will not mesh well, causing discrepancies.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/18 01:25:35
Subject: shield breaker
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Dakka Veteran
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Eihnlazer wrote:You can believe anything you want sir, it doesnt magically change the facts for anyone else on the planet.
But, that is a whole nother topic.
You roll to hit. If the unit contains models that all have the same save (i.e. storm shields on all models for a 3++) you then make said invunerable save since the AP1 on the shot negates the 2+. If the save is failed you then allocate to the model you want, killing it or removing its invunerable for the remainder of the game.
This is the RAW in the rulebook. It is not RAI, I believe, however that is not what you were arguing about. Most people play it that the way you argue and that is the way it works in units with mixed saves.
You have to consider that the Grey knights codex is not yet updated to 6th yet, so the wording on allot of rules will not mesh well, causing discrepancies.
Why are you commenting??? I am not changing my view.
Reminds me of a drunk man on the bus who argues with people and the people argue back with him. who is the bigger fool the drunk man or the people arguing with the drunk man?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/18 01:28:21
Subject: shield breaker
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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Why exactly are you responding if that is the case?
If your going to blindly disagree against all logic, then there is absolutely no point in you responding on this forum.
You can gain personal satisfaction from other places that dont affect the thoughts of others.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/18 01:29:46
Subject: shield breaker
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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So if you're not actually interested in discussing this, what was the point of this thread?
We're done here.
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