Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Are there specific descriptions in novels on how agile and fast are main races of 40?

Eldar (and more specifically Dark Eldar) are described to be blindingly fast in combat being capable of dodging lasgun fire. What? They dodge light?

I'm not really sure about orks, but I remember reading a space marine captain (or IG commisar?) talking about orks looking so big and bulky and yet they moved swiftly and gracefully in the battlefield.


Any more info on this topic?

I'm sure a Space marine is pretty slow compared to others, but makes up for it in his step width and bulk. You turn around they literally pummel into you.

Guardsmen are probably the slowest, having to climb over obstacles/Getting stuck in barbed wire, and having a average running speed.

Tau I'd say are pretty fast, and maybe a bit bulky. Guess they just scamper over to cover all the time.

Same for SM with Grey knights, big charges.

Tyrannies scamper and I guess the larger beasts would pummel into you pretty fast.

Dark eldar/ Eldar, pretty fast like you said.

Necrosis I'd say are the second slowest above guard. They're running looks a bit awkward for me.

Orks, Tau, Necrons, and Guardsmen are roughly on par when it comes to speed.

Marines are far faster, with Eldar even faster than that, and so on.

Tyranids > Daemons > Tyranids > Eldar > Necrons> Astartes > Orks > SOB > Tau> Necrons > Normal Humans

Tyranids are listed twice as the Hive Ships, which count as a Tyranid, can move at relativistic speeds, AKA FTL. SOB, while unaugmented, I imagine would be faster than the Tau simply thanks to their zealous training and greater endurance. I'm not too familiar with Tau, but judging simply from how their legs are built, they should be a lot faster than normal humans and better at bounding over terrain thanks to the structure of their legs and the advantage of hooves. Orks vary, but I'd generally peg them lower than Astartes, as Astartes are in reality incredibly agile and fast, to the point that they can drive some humans insane/delirious from just how wrong it looks to see something so bulky moving at speeds that it really, really shouldn't.

Necrons are broad as well, as there's a big difference between a Wraith and a Warrior. Not counting Necron Lords as from what I've read, they vary in their stats. Although technically psykers would be the fastest in measure of pure distance, as most/some can teleport.

Broly wrote:
Eldar (and more specifically Dark Eldar) are described to be blindingly fast in combat being capable of dodging lasgun fire. What? They dodge light?

I don't think that 40k 'las' weapons actually work much like real-world lasers, even though they are rather explicitly stated to be laser weapons in some sources. They are sometimes described as having recoil, needing to be adjusted for windage and having their shots appear as a 'dart' of light rather than a beam.

Even if they did fire at the speed of light, that doesn't make them impossible to dodge. You can 'dodge' by moving so quickly that the delay between the shooter aiming at you and their pulling of the trigger is enough to make them miss.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Even if they did fire at the speed of light, that doesn't make them impossible to dodge. You can 'dodge' by moving so quickly that the delay between the shooter aiming at you and their pulling of the trigger is enough to make them miss.

This. Most of the time when I encounter 'dodging bullets' in fiction, (short of an explicitly supernatural ability that allows it) I assume it just means individuals moving in such a way as to make themselves a harder to hit. Ducking, weaving, generally being evasive, that sort of thing.

To the OP: Are you asking about reflexes, response time, and how quickly they can move their hands? Running speed? Speed at which a military force of that race can move and re-deploy? Or travel speed across interstellar distances?

If it is the first one then the 'I' (Initiative) stat from the game is a good guide of relative reflexes for the different factions, as it essentially tracks who is fast enough to hit first in melee combat.

You also have to bear in mind that all Eldar are latently psychic to some degree. It could be suggested that their supernatural ability to dodge is down to some sub-concious precognition that they possess. In the cases of Farseers, they can literally see where, how and when you're going to fire that gun, and so can dodge accordingly.

You also have examples such as Lady Malyss for Dark Eldar, who shares such precognition, however, it is based upon her intelligence (i.e knowing where her opponent is going to fire etc) rather than psychic aptitude.

Iranna.

I have it in my head that Las guns done fire laser as we know them as they are frequently described as "Las Bolts" this gives the impression, not of a standard .75 bolt shell fired by a boltgun, but of a smaller superheated projectile the size of a pebble or so, this explains the adjustment for wind and for the drop of rounds. it also would explain ricochete and las fire "pinging harmlessly" off of ceramite plating.

I dunno thats my idea anyway

Orks are a mixed bag depending on whether or not they're Waaaghhh-ing at the time or not.

Due to their power & mentality, they get a significant boost above the other 'average' races when they are, even though they'll never match up to the real speedsters like 'Nids & Eldar.

Tyranids are listed twice as the Hive Ships, which count as a Tyranid, can move at relativistic speeds, AKA FTL. SOB, while unaugmented, I imagine would be faster than the Tau simply thanks to their zealous training and greater endurance. I'm not too familiar with Tau, but judging simply from how their legs are built, they should be a lot faster than normal humans and better at bounding over terrain thanks to the structure of their legs and the advantage of hooves. Orks vary, but I'd generally peg them lower than Astartes, as Astartes are in reality incredibly agile and fast, to the point that they can drive some humans insane/delirious from just how wrong it looks to see something so bulky moving at speeds that it really, really shouldn't.

Without the Narvhals, the Tyranid Fleets are stuck at sub-light speeds.

Broly wrote:Eldar (and more specifically Dark Eldar) are described to be blindingly fast in combat being capable of dodging lasgun fire. What? They dodge light?

It's not necessarily that they're dodging light. They could have keen eyes and notice when the guardsmen in front of them is just about to pull the trigger and moves quickly so that when the lasgun fires it shoots at where the eldar WAS not where it IS when he fires the weapon.

Likewise, it could represent a guardsmen not even firing in the first place as he keeps moving his weapon left and right but can never quite track fast enough to put sights on target and actually pull the trigger. Or it could be guardsmen just giving up and firing randomly, which, once again, keen eyes would be able to see where the weapons are actually pointing and just not move in such a way where you get yourself hit.

As for fastest race, Leleith has I9, and with no augmentations, cybernetics, or combat drugs of any kind. Dark Eldar, therefore, can get up to I9 with nothing more than practice. Is there something in the eldar codex faster?

 Ailaros wrote:

Broly wrote:Eldar (and more specifically Dark Eldar) are described to be blindingly fast in combat being capable of dodging lasgun fire. What? They dodge light?

It's not necessarily that they're dodging light. They could have keen eyes and notice when the guardsmen in front of them is just about to pull the trigger and moves quickly so that when the lasgun fires it shoots at where the eldar WAS not where it IS when he fires the weapon.

Likewise, it could represent a guardsmen not even firing in the first place as he keeps moving his weapon left and right but can never quite track fast enough to put sights on target and actually pull the trigger. Or it could be guardsmen just giving up and firing randomly, which, once again, keen eyes would be able to see where the weapons are actually pointing and just not move in such a way where you get yourself hit.

As for fastest race, Leleith has I9, and with no augmentations, cybernetics, or combat drugs of any kind. Dark Eldar, therefore, can get up to I9 with nothing more than practice. Is there something in the eldar codex faster?

I think the avatar is I10. I'll have to check though.
Edit: Yep the living incarnation of the eldar war god is I10.

 MrBlackledge wrote:
I have it in my head that Las guns done fire laser as we know them as they are frequently described as "Las Bolts" this gives the impression, not of a standard .75 bolt shell fired by a boltgun, but of a smaller superheated projectile the size of a pebble or so, this explains the adjustment for wind and for the drop of rounds. it also would explain ricochete and las fire "pinging harmlessly" off of ceramite plating.

I dunno thats my idea anyway

No, they're explicitly lasers, but they might be similar to the particle weaponry of Star Wars or Phasers from Stark Trek, which rely on particles for their ammunition. Although since lasgun ammo regenerates from exposure to any source of energy (heat), they're probably just lasers or fire a different type of particle, but easily produced that does not require ammo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:

Broly wrote:Eldar (and more specifically Dark Eldar) are described to be blindingly fast in combat being capable of dodging lasgun fire. What? They dodge light?

It's not necessarily that they're dodging light. They could have keen eyes and notice when the guardsmen in front of them is just about to pull the trigger and moves quickly so that when the lasgun fires it shoots at where the eldar WAS not where it IS when he fires the weapon.

Likewise, it could represent a guardsmen not even firing in the first place as he keeps moving his weapon left and right but can never quite track fast enough to put sights on target and actually pull the trigger. Or it could be guardsmen just giving up and firing randomly, which, once again, keen eyes would be able to see where the weapons are actually pointing and just not move in such a way where you get yourself hit.

As for fastest race, Leleith has I9, and with no augmentations, cybernetics, or combat drugs of any kind. Dark Eldar, therefore, can get up to I9 with nothing more than practice. Is there something in the eldar codex faster?

This as well. There is a big difference between aim dodging and bullet dodging, Eldar are likely aim dodging and could probably flat dodge sub sonic ammunition at greater distances than point blank. Straight up dodging lasers require FTL speeds, which are outliers we forget about because FTL space marines is just flying rodent gak insanity. The only sensible way to 'dodge' a laser is to move out of the way just as the laser makes contact with you, but before the laser is able to heat up to full power.

SOB would ble one of the slowest, their armour doesn't augment their strength, and unless they're biologically enhanced, or treated with drugs their physiological make up would make them slower in comparison to other trained forces. Compared to a normalhuman,yeah they will probably cream them in a sprint, but compared to a trained guardsmen, let alone elite guardsmen, they would br slow.

Also, speed is defined in various ways, there is straight up sprinting speed (power), which marines may be king at, there is agility which is speed in multiple direction, which eldar would be king of... A SOB in that sense may be faster than a guardsmen as they may be more agile, which would go in line with their supposed super secret martial arts training, but not powerful enough to outsprint that guardsmen,

So basically... Depends on what you are trying to answer, do you want to know who is the fastest, or the most agile, as they could be different answers.

Though, eldar are meant to be fast, and Nids would be also.

I wonder what an armoured, and unarmoured marine could do the 100m in. Lactic acid wouldn't be an issue at all at that distance. Maybe sub 9 seconds....

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
SOB would ble one of the slowest, their armour doesn't augment their strength, and unless they're biologically enhanced, or treated with drugs their physiological make up would make them slower in comparison to other trained forces. Compared to a normalhuman,yeah they will probably cream them in a sprint, but compared to a trained guardsmen, let alone elite guardsmen, they would br slow.

Also, speed is defined in various ways, there is straight up sprinting speed (power), which marines may be king at, there is agility which is speed in multiple direction, which eldar would be king of... A SOB in that sense may be faster than a guardsmen as they may be more agile, which would go in line with their supposed super secret martial arts training, but not powerful enough to outsprint that guardsmen,

So basically... Depends on what you are trying to answer, do you want to know who is the fastest, or the most agile, as they could be different answers.

Though, eldar are meant to be fast, and Nids would be also.

I wonder what an armoured, and unarmoured marine could do the 100m in. Lactic acid wouldn't be an issue at all at that distance. Maybe sub 9 seconds....

Even in armor Space Marines can clock in at non-highway automobile speeds.

Well, I think Usain bolt hits about 27mph top speed.

So it depends on what you consider non highway speeds, 30, or 40?

As explosive as they are, they probably take at least 25m of it to get that mass moving at top speed, but then they also have an obscene stride due to their height, assuming they have good technique also, and we know they have a really amazing CV and energy system(s), they could probably do sub 9 at 30 out of armor, so at 40, maybe the 7 and a half seconds mark? In Armor then.. Welll.. That could be some amazing times.

Oh, and eversor assasins would definately be up there with the fastest things out there.

I don't doubt that Marines have something to counter lactic acid.

I believe that is mentioned in some sources as being a function of the second heart or third lung or just the rebuilt bio-chemistry that allows them to operate.

A sister would be far faster then any guardsmen or tau, not despite but because of their armour. Power armour doesn't slow you down, it is build with many servos which augment the sister with greater speed and strength then she should have, nothing super human, but top physical fitness at least. Think of power armour as a modern day servo harness, sure it is heavy but you will run a lot faster with it then without it.

The fastest/most agile race is the Dark Eldar, where an augmented elder can become initiative 6 simply with training as a such, with a succubus getting as high as initiative 8. No other race even gets near that high for basic troops and HQ's bar for newsreaders who are also incredibly fast.

If memory serves me, and this is coming from FFG, power armor only slows one down if the power cell dies on the individual.

Depending on the specific book, it might also give you the Hulking descriptor, which makes it easier to shoot you, unless you also have a Black Carapace, which ignores that penalty.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
A sister would be far faster then any guardsmen or tau, not despite but because of their armour. Power armour doesn't slow you down, it is build with many servos which augment the sister with greater speed and strength then she should have, nothing super human, but top physical fitness at least. Think of power armour as a modern day servo harness, sure it is heavy but you will run a lot faster with it then without it.

The fastest/most agile race is the Dark Eldar, where an augmented elder can become initiative 6 simply with training as a such, with a succubus getting as high as initiative 8. No other race even gets near that high for basic troops and HQ's bar for newsreaders who are also incredibly fast.

Every single Assassin (not just Eversor) is Initiative 7, WS 8 (which is just....mindblowing).

I think the human with the "fastest reaction time" without any sort of enhancements whatsoever would be Marbo with Initiative 5.

Space Marines aren't Usain Bolt. Space Marines are Arnold Schwarzenneger, how many world records for speed does he have?

Power Armour wouldn't affect anyones sprinting speed, it would increase their marching speed but nullifying encumberance (which is what the US military is currently working on exoskeletons for - armour will come later)

Admittedly rules aren't fluff, but back when the two were a lot closer together Marines had the same movement score as regular humans.

 Gashrog wrote:
Space Marines aren't Usain Bolt. Space Marines are Arnold Schwarzenneger, how many world records for speed does he have?

Power Armour wouldn't affect anyones sprinting speed, it would increase their marching speed but nullifying encumberance (which is what the US military is currently working on exoskeletons for - armour will come later)

Admittedly rules aren't fluff, but back when the two were a lot closer together Marines had the same movement score as regular humans.

Uh, what? Space Marines can run 40 MPH. It doesn't matter if they're built like Arnold, this is fiction where logic be damned.

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:Power armour doesn't slow you down, it is build with many servos which augment the sister with greater speed and strength then she should have

Yes, but only if you have a black carapace. Which sisters don't.

At absolute best, power armor is a wash for regular humans compared to other kinds of armor.

In any case, I think we can name our top three most agile races:

1.) Literal gods of war.
2.) Dark Eldar.
3.) Everybody else.

Counting only basic troops and not specialists:

Dark Eldar > Eldar >= Tyranids > Space Marines > Sisters of Battle = Orks = Tau = Guardsmen > Necrons

I didn't rank Daemons because they vary so much.

Daemonettes are faster than everyone except maybe Eldar and DE, Bloodletters are around Space Marine speed, Blue Horrors I have no clue, Plaguebearers are probably even slower than Necrons.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Gashrog wrote:
Space Marines aren't Usain Bolt. Space Marines are Arnold Schwarzenneger, how many world records for speed does he have?

Power Armour wouldn't affect anyones sprinting speed, it would increase their marching speed but nullifying encumberance (which is what the US military is currently working on exoskeletons for - armour will come later)

Admittedly rules aren't fluff, but back when the two were a lot closer together Marines had the same movement score as regular humans.

Uh, what? Space Marines can run 40 MPH. It doesn't matter if they're built like Arnold, this is fiction where logic be damned.

Arnold is a terrible example, he isn't built for performance, he is built for aesthetic. A better example would be a power lifter or a heavy weight MMA fighter. And they, can run good sprint speeds believe it or not, as sprinting is about power and technique - hence why most sprinters look like roided up freaks (not saying they are, depends who you believe). 100m would be nothing to a space marine, maybe 400-800m. And again, their stride length.

I'm not saying they would be excellent mid-distance to long distance runners - they could be due to their incredible biology - but short distances, all that muscle equally distributed and optimized to be basically a human battering ram, think the bezerkers from gears of war, hulking monster that is incredibly fast over short distances.

Also, the point above about lactic acid. Yeah, marines second heart plus third lung + whatever else they have in them to purify their systems would be very very very effective at nullifying lactic acid, especially over such a small distance. For all I can speculate at such speeds with their biology, marines may not even work hard enough to enter glycolosis or could have a super efficient oxidative system that triggers with a working high percentage efficiency within seconds. They may have PC stores so ridiculously extensive they may not even have to use these energy systems and just use ATP-PC.

I know this is fiction in a ridiculous sci-fi setting, but these things you can apply to marines. They would be incredibly fast in just a straight line, and that is all out of armor.

How are Tau faster than Guardsmen? Tau have hooves and 2 legs, this is not a good combo. Your best Guardsmen are probably better than today's top athletes and the average is probably better than most current people in the military.

Using each races basic foot soldier: Daemonette > Dark Eldar > Eldar > Hormagaunt > Kroot > Space Marine > Bloodletter > Termagant > Pink Horror > SOB > Guardsmen > Tau > Necron > Plaguebearer

Much as it feels like a betrayal to admit it, Sisters in armour probably have a slightly lower hand-eye speed than Guardsmen because of the delay between their muscles moving and the armour picking up the pressure signal and moving (if we assume that the logical alternative to direct nerve communication is touch-sensitive pads on the inside of the armour).

The delay is probably measurable in milliseconds, but even milliseconds add up. The only other explanation is that Sisters are actually Initiative 4, but their power armour slows them down. :p

The Black Carapace means that Astartes armour reacts to the same nerve signals that their muscles do - there's no practical difference between the Marine's skin and his armour.

Death cult assasins might take the highest initiative for a human at I6, sorry Marbo :( You could argue that some of them have enhancements though, but I doubt the Grey Knights would work with any that are worshiping dark gods...

There are also a couple Grey Knight characters that can strike at I10 with the perfect warrior rule. They are normally I6 I think, so this is more of an add on than base but they can still be up there with the best of them.