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If they do the resculpt on the terrain base it does indicate it is being done more for the table top game than for the office clearing board game.

As for hitting 3k backers? I can see it happening. That would be about 850 from where they are now. Assuming 25 backers a day for the next couple of weeks that would add 350, meaning they would need to add 500 or so the last 3-4 days. If each of those 350 pledge an average of 150, they add $52,500 to the campaign, which means they enter the last 3-4 days at over 400k.

It could happen...

I think it will,.... There has been basically zero promotion up to this point,....

It has also been an unusually long campaign,... Due precisely to the fact that they have show promos planned at Adepticon and PaxEast.

What the did with MYTH was very similar,... The show promos, beefed up adds,... And then the cross promo with KD:M were all instrumental in the last week increase and then the final days madness.

This thing is a long way from over,.... And still way out pacing MYTH,..... During this period of MYTH there were plenty of well intentioned folks saying that it might not even make 300k.

The HUGE difference between this and Myth is momentum. Myth never had the days under 5K and less than 20 new pledges this has had. Yes, it did not have the initial spike this project does, but it consistently did better on a daily basis than this one is if you don't count that initial spike.

Next game play video: parts 2 and 3 to follow

What's this whole no direct competition thing?

Cure my ignorance, please.

It's a post made by Mercs before the KS in the Myth comments it did show some arrogance on their part competition is competition regardless of genre and well those other projects that aren't competition are now ahead of them.

Also the more I see of Recon and it's design the more I wonder about the Sci-Fi tag itself A lot of it feels more modern era than sci-fi to me.

Creator MERCS Miniatures on Feb 27
@Davinh Our thinking is along the same line. The competition out there is Fantasy. There is no Sci-Fi to compete with and (in our opinion) no KS right now is controlling the marketplace. Yes, there are some big names... but I think we have earned the right to be called a big name. The current KS seem to be rather slow and the momentum uninspired. And as you said, there will always be competition; right now, however, there is no competition in our genre.
If the competition comes down to the best product and minis, I think we win hands down. If it comes down to the best game, we'll have rules and videos available day one for you to make that decision.
We'll reevaluate over the weekend and make a decision early next week.
All the testers playing the game LOVE it. I think it will surprise people on the fence...our stretch goals are pretty good too .

Yeah, their stretch goals are sooooo good -_-

 DaveC wrote:
It's a post made by Mercs before the KS in the Myth comments it did show some arrogance on their part competition is competition regardless of genre and well those other projects that aren't competition are now ahead of them.

Also the more I see of Recon and it's design the more I wonder about the Sci-Fi tag itself A lot of it feels more modern era than sci-fi to me.

Creator MERCS Miniatures on Feb 27
@Davinh Our thinking is along the same line. The competition out there is Fantasy. There is no Sci-Fi to compete with and (in our opinion) no KS right now is controlling the marketplace. Yes, there are some big names... but I think we have earned the right to be called a big name. The current KS seem to be rather slow and the momentum uninspired. And as you said, there will always be competition; right now, however, there is no competition in our genre.
If the competition comes down to the best product and minis, I think we win hands down. If it comes down to the best game, we'll have rules and videos available day one for you to make that decision.
We'll reevaluate over the weekend and make a decision early next week.
All the testers playing the game LOVE it. I think it will surprise people on the fence...our stretch goals are pretty good too .

I hadn't seen that comment until now...

Having every playtester currently playing your game is usually a bad sign. It shows that the people you have playtesting it really aren't the people that should be playtesting it...

I'm not sure you got the meaning of their post,..... I don't think that they mean that all the play testers are currently playing that game,.....

They mean that each of the people that have play tested it "love" it,...

Also,.. I think this quote was a bit blown out of proportion,... We can debate whether or not it was right to launch now,... And in the end, we will know that,... But everyone goes around talking about how they said that there's "no competition",... But clearly they are talking about in their genre (yeah, we can debate that wisdom as well).

Others have labeled it arrogance. They talk about their minis,... And I think they are right (in the board game box realm,... These are the best I've seen),..... And when they talk about the game,... They don't say that it's better than everyone's else's,.... They say,.. Check it out and decide for your self.

On a side note,.... Yeah, it is not sci fi ,... They have called in "near future" in the past, and I think that is a better description. There are no drastic technologies and nothing supernatural.

If you have to call yourself a 'big name', you're probably not a 'big name'.

It seems a little bit "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!?"

You know, everyone reads things differently,.... (This is why actual BIG companies need PR types to go over any communications).

Two people can read the same thing and get two totally different tones from it ( man, this happens when I text my girlfriend all the time!).

So I'd bet the truth is somewhere between what the fan and the doubter believes upon reading.

I feel most (if not all) of the non megacon aligned people saw it as arrogance, it probably says something about the message, the fact that the concerns and not the response gets validated (unfortunately) means they probably overestimated their popularity.

Still plenty of time for them to shape up and make this a success.

A "big name" would NEVER release that Myth rule book. They printed thousands of copies of a 60 page full color book that nobody outside of their immediate friends and families had copy edited much less attempted to use for play. The primary thing the Recon rule book they've previewed has going for it is that it's so much simpler than Myth's. Maybe some of their NDA signing play testers will rewrite it for them, but otherwise expecting much more than a nice mini collection here is being very optimistic in my opinion.

Long time lurker - 2nd time poster.
I was a backer of Myth but I was taken aback by Megacon's confidence. As an international backer, there is little chance for me to judge for myself if Myth is a good as they claim. I've mixed feelings hearing that the rulebook is naff but I should be issued with an updated one.
When Recon launched I backed immediately but I soon got cold feet during the stretch goals. One question I asked never got answered. Since I'm only a fan of the 1 core box but several of the paid expansions could there be a way of pledging enough to cover the stretch goals, I.e a $120 pledge equivalent. I assumed not.
I could be tempted back, considering how much time still remains.

yamato wrote:You know, everyone reads things differently, So I'd bet the truth is somewhere between what the fan and the doubter believes upon reading.

Creator MERCS Miniatures on Feb 27
@Davinh Our thinking is along the same line. The competition out there is Fantasy. There is no Sci-Fi to compete with and (in our opinion) no KS right now is controlling the marketplace. Yes, there are some big names... but I think we have earned the right to be called a big name. The current KS seem to be rather slow and the momentum uninspired. And as you said, there will always be competition; right now, however, there is no competition in our genre.
If the competition comes down to the best product and minis, I think we win hands down. If it comes down to the best game, we'll have rules and videos available day one for you to make that decision.
We'll reevaluate over the weekend and make a decision early next week.
All the testers playing the game LOVE it.I think it will surprise people on the fence...our stretch goals are pretty good too .

**All highlights are by me.**

I agree with you, everyone reads things differently. But I don't see how you could read these highlighted parts differently. They think they've earned the right to be called a big name because they had one successful KS, that they then completely bungled the writing of the rules. They think they win hands down in the miniatures department? I wouldn't say so. I think they have comparable figures to other games, KS or otherwise. But they don't blow the competition away by any means. IF all they meant was currently running KS's, that's rather shortsighted, and not what I compare figures and sculpts and quality against at all.

They have sprinkled what, 5 videos now over almost 3 weeks. So they didn't have videos available day one. Poor planning on their part.

As to the last part, the only surprise is that Mercs haven't realized that all of us fence sitters don't think their SGs are pretty good. Especially not really good, as they now think they are. Unspectacular is what I'll go with. Uninspired is unfair, as people familiar with the Mercs world really like the House 9 Saboteur. However, from an outside viewpoint, of someone with zero knowledge or experience of Mercs, none of these SGs are really impressive as far as the game Recon goes. With Arcadia Quest or Super Dungeon Explore, all the SGs and add-ons really added something to the game itself. All the expansion packs here add a new team that can be played, but I can't mix and match heroes, so all these expansions have far less useability. They also aren't upgrading the base game here, as far as the cards, tokens or figures. I'm hoping beyond hope that if I decide to pledge, that I can purchase more SecFor 1 figures, as 6 just doesn't cut it.

I guess it just feels like they are smug. They are offering prior Mercs players a great deal to get a ton of the figures in Plastic, and their Colossus rescuplt even hints towards that. But they aren't making Recon a great value for me to qualify it as a "must have".

This one:

There is no Sci-Fi to compete with and (in our opinion) no KS right now is controlling the marketplace.

was pretty bad too.

Still, as previously noted, there's still plenty of time and opportunity to turn this one into something...MYTHic!

It may be a good deal for merc players to rebuy their metal collection in plastic, if they reach the streachgoals to unlock them.

But this is irrelevant, or it should be since this is a boardgame project not a "lets make Mercs miniatures in plastic format" kickstarter.

Speaking of unlocking stuff -5 backers and 1k$ so far today... there is enough time, there are enough options, there are ideas, will there be willingness to do them and more importantly will there be enough momentum to support it?

Yeah, I saw that they're negative for the day today.

But Mercs seem to think this is a hiking expedition, and this is a valley that was expected. Good thing it isn't a KS...

Downward trends in either backers or dollars make me uneasy. I can't help being influenced by popular opinion. Backers attract backers. I imagine that losing backers casts doubt if the project offers a good return.

 Salacious Greed wrote:
Yeah, I saw that they're negative for the day today.

But Mercs seem to think this is a hiking expedition, and this is a valley that was expected. Good thing it isn't a KS...

It does happen from time to time with Kickstarters, whats suprising is that this campaign has gone into the red several times already. Each time though at the end of the day they've gotten back into the positives.

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 Salacious Greed wrote:
Yeah, I saw that they're negative for the day today.

But Mercs seem to think this is a hiking expedition, and this is a valley that was expected. Good thing it isn't a KS...

It does happen from time to time with Kickstarters, whats suprising is that this campaign has gone into the red several times already. Each time though at the end of the day they've gotten back into the positives.

Very true, I am not downing this, merely dissatisfied with the company. They don't even react to the negative flow...so they also aren't responsible for the bounce back on all the negative days...merely the backers.

Pulling a pledge at this point just seems like bad strategy to me. If you are unhappy with the reward levels/stretch goals, It doesn't hurt to let the pledge ride until the last day. If you leave it in, then it goes towards pushing the rewards to a more satisfactory level. When you pull the pledge in a struggling campaign you're just going to hurt any momentum it does have.

I think that if those that dropped over the last 3-4 days had stayed in, we'd probably be almost at the next SG and starting to build momentum into the final funding climb already.

Of course the current set of drops today could have been from people artificially inflating their pledges to get to the $350,000 surprise. Which is also kind of a jerky thing to do.

 CaulynDarr wrote:
Pulling a pledge at this point just seems like bad strategy to me. If you are unhappy with the reward levels/stretch goals, It doesn't hurt to let the pledge ride until the last day. If you leave it in, then it goes towards pushing the rewards to a more satisfactory level. When you pull the pledge in a struggling campaign you're just going to hurt any momentum it does have.

I think that if those that dropped over the last 3-4 days had stayed in, we'd probably be almost at the next SG and starting to build momentum into the final funding climb already.

Of course the current set of drops today could have been from people artificially inflating their pledges to get to the $350,000 surprise. Which is also kind of a jerky thing to do.

What other options do dissatisfied backers actually have though? There is a thread here and several on Board Game Geek debating the lack of value from this KS. People have sent PM's to the project creater or looked for answers in the comments section. Most of this have been for naught, the creators seem to be happy with just sticking their fingers in their ears and humming loudly.

I don't think what were getting is a horrible deal, but for the return I my investment I'll probably end up pulling my pledge and giving it to a smaller company rather then help out one of the self proclaimed big boys.

 CaulynDarr wrote:
Pulling a pledge at this point just seems like bad strategy to me. If you are unhappy with the reward levels/stretch goals, It doesn't hurt to let the pledge ride until the last day. If you leave it in, then it goes towards pushing the rewards to a more satisfactory level. When you pull the pledge in a struggling campaign you're just going to hurt any momentum it does have.

I think that if those that dropped over the last 3-4 days had stayed in, we'd probably be almost at the next SG and starting to build momentum into the final funding climb already.

Of course the current set of drops today could have been from people artificially inflating their pledges to get to the $350,000 surprise. Which is also kind of a jerky thing to do.

It takes all kinds of things for people to pull their pledges. However, if everyone left their pledge in, then Mercs would NEVER get the hint that there might be something wrong. This might be enough to give them a reality check that Mercs the game isn't a marketplace name, that Recon isn't a superb product on its own, and that they've really pulled a major boner with the Myth rulebook.

Will they make this game? Yes. Could they make it much better? Yes, but show no inclination to make Recon the Game better. Is this really a vehicle for Mercs migrating to plastics? Seems like it with every other update.

When they added Robocop, they said they had some more intermediate SGs. I don't really count this reveal at $350k as a SG. But they don't seem interested in actually driving up the backers. They are content....which mystifies me.

Catyrpelius wrote:

What other options do dissatisfied backers actually have though? There is a thread here and several on Board Game Geek debating the lack of value from this KS. People have sent PM's to the project creater or looked for answers in the comments section. Most of this have been for naught, the creators seem to be happy with just sticking their fingers in their ears and humming loudly.

I don't think what were getting is a horrible deal, but for the return I my investment I'll probably end up pulling my pledge and giving it to a smaller company rather then help out one of the self proclaimed big boys.

Salacious Greed wrote:
It takes all kinds of things for people to pull their pledges. However, if everyone left their pledge in, then Mercs would NEVER get the hint that there might be something wrong. This might be enough to give them a reality check that Mercs the game isn't a marketplace name, that Recon isn't a superb product on its own, and that they've really pulled a major boner with the Myth rulebook.

Will they make this game? Yes. Could they make it much better? Yes, but show no inclination to make Recon the Game better. Is this really a vehicle for Mercs migrating to plastics? Seems like it with every other update.

When they added Robocop, they said they had some more intermediate SGs. I don't really count this reveal at $350k as a SG. But they don't seem interested in actually driving up the backers. They are content....which mystifies me.

It's not like the deal ever got worse. Just didn't grow at a very fast rate.

This kickstarter does have version 2.0 problems. Where their efforts to do things better end up causing issues. Though I don't see them as being as serious as others. I've backed some projects that had really good management during the KS, only to continuously disappoint after the fact(I'm looking at you Relic Knights and Robotech). Myth hit pretty close to the projected ship date. That's a big incentive for me to back this as I had sworn off kick starers after those two disasters.

Oh man, tell me about it. I dodged the bullet with Relic Knights, but got bent over the barrel with Robotech. I'm not so leery about them shipping late, this just doesn't seem to have the depth of play that Zombicide does as a board game. Their gameplay video was a bit rough, as the group was boisterous and fun, but didn't really seem to know how to play. Then they lost. Not the greatest video to get people interested in the game. Also, all the Mercs units are great, but you can't interchange 1 merc into the group, or let everyone pick who they want to play. You have to pick a faction, and someone will probably get stuck with a class they don't like. So all the factions here aren't a big positive for Recon. But that seems to be the major direction for the company, not improving Recon the basic game. Well, 17 more days, we'll see if they turn it around.

 Salacious Greed wrote:
Oh man, tell me about it. I dodged the bullet with Relic Knights, but got bent over the barrel with Robotech. I'm not so leery about them shipping late, this just doesn't seem to have the depth of play that Zombicide does as a board game. Their gameplay video was a bit rough, as the group was boisterous and fun, but didn't really seem to know how to play. Then they lost. Not the greatest video to get people interested in the game. Also, all the Mercs units are great, but you can't interchange 1 merc into the group, or let everyone pick who they want to play. You have to pick a faction, and someone will probably get stuck with a class they don't like. So all the factions here aren't a big positive for Recon. But that seems to be the major direction for the company, not improving Recon the basic game. Well, 17 more days, we'll see if they turn it around.

The updated gameplay video is a better. It's one guy running it single player, and he tries to explain why he does things a bit. Much of the game is randomly generated, and they really should have scripted their demo videos. I think it would have made the game play look a bit clearer.

As for mixing and matching mercs, I've found that groups that regularly play these types of co-op games are very open to adjusting to the right level of difficulty. For instance, Sentinels of the Multiverse is pretty popular with my group, and we completely ignore the official FAQ when it comes to resolving game effects. We find that using a ccg style FIFO resolution stack makes the game more challenging as opposed to their suggestion of resolving events in any order we choose. Altering the rules in a co-op game isn't the zero-sum situation it tends to be in a game like 40K.

There are also 8 (eventually maybe 10) MERCS per squad to chose from,... So it at least gives some options for people to chose from.

I'm most anxious to see how the factions play differently,... In TT game they are VERY different,... But I have a feeling that they will be less so in this,...

KemVar vid is said to be in editing and EU shooting today.

They have not quite talked much about the special actions (rules sheets) I'm not sure if these are specific to the faction or just the base box or mission box,... I guess we'll have to wait and see.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Salacious Greed wrote:

yamato wrote:You know, everyone reads things differently, So I'd bet the truth is somewhere between what the fan and the doubter believes upon reading.

Creator MERCS Miniatures on Feb 27
@Davinh Our thinking is along the same line. The competition out there is Fantasy. There is no Sci-Fi to compete with and (in our opinion) no KS right now is controlling the marketplace. Yes, there are some big names... but I think we have earned the right to be called a big name. The current KS seem to be rather slow and the momentum uninspired. And as you said, there will always be competition; right now, however, there is no competition in our genre.
If the competition comes down to the best product and minis, I think we win hands down. If it comes down to the best game, we'll have rules and videos available day one for you to make that decision.
We'll reevaluate over the weekend and make a decision early next week.
All the testers playing the game LOVE it.I think it will surprise people on the fence...our stretch goals are pretty good too .

**All highlights are by me.**

I agree with you, everyone reads things differently. But I don't see how you could read these highlighted parts differently.

That kind of makes my point for me,... When you highlight and take things out of context,... You put your own spin on them,....

I put my own spin on it as well,..... So I back off of defending it and saying that everyone else is wrong. Far from it,.... They surely need someone a bit more skilled on the PR side.

 Salacious Greed wrote:
Yeah, I saw that they're negative for the day today.

But Mercs seem to think this is a hiking expedition, and this is a valley that was expected. Good thing it isn't a KS...

When you compare to Myth, that never had a negative day, and in fact the lowest day was over 4k, and most days were 5-6k until the last couple, and they had over 20 new backers each day. In short, Myth didn't have a valley. It was pretty steady then had a rapid climb. When Mercs uses that final climb as their normal/assumption for this, they are ignoring the differences in day to day performance.

Quick question to those in the know.

How do you add additional purchases to a pledge or is this done separately to the pledge once you have signed up.

Not sure if I am meant to add additional purchases to the pledge amount in the beginning?

Bit of a grey area to a KS newbie.

Cheers.

Chim