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A broken image link?

 Furyou Miko wrote:
A broken image link?

Seems fine on my end... has the inquisition interfered with my plan for heresy?

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
So many game mechanics!

I know, I know. But I only referenced them to back up the fluff.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
I would challenge you to a match to settle this (And Miko too) but Britain is distant and I am too busy to travel!

Ha, likewise. That'd be fun. We could maybe even do one houseruled game where our respective armies are as powerful as we like to think they are.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Also, mind you, Astartes are just as likely to make surgical strikes against the SoB. In fact, that and boarding actions are one of their specialities, which is not happy news for the incoming SoB fleet (Sure, meltas and flamers are good on ships, but Marines are kings in space)

Possibly. Again, not saying that the Marines won't put up a fight or have their own edges. All depends on how it kicks off, I guess.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
A broken image link?

He was trying to link to this:

Protip: 1d4chan doesn't seem to allow linking images directly.

EDIT: oh, I can see it now. Weird,

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
it'd be closer to 10 Sisters per Marine. They are but humans after all.

(Frowning intensifies)

 Bobthehero wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
it'd be closer to 10 Sisters per Marine. They are but humans after all.

(Frowning intensifies)

*frowning is now full inverted v*

My dislike of the Space Wolves comes from the way long ago it seemed they were written like some fanboy Mary Sue, like some of the bad lists/ideas you see online where someone invents an army that's just super at everything. I don't mind the models, even the silly stuff like the wolf riders. But even 20 years ago their first proper codex in 2nd edition was full of 'Hurr, they don't follow any codex rules and do their own thing, hurr, they don't get on with anyone, hurr, they refuse to break up their chapter properly after the Heresy or follow orders' and then to cap it off they were given an over powered list in which they just had improved stat lines and abilities for marginal cost increases over marines.

Things that annoy about the Space Wolves, and that we're even having this discussion, result from the way they were written in their early days. There's not following codex rules, and then there's just being douchbags doing anything you like without repercussion. I'm sure other chapters in the fluff have deviated less than Space Wolves and been penalised, so the way Space Wolves don't give a damn about anything and are untouchable for it just makes the whole 'we're so special' shtick even more obvious.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
it'd be closer to 10 Sisters per Marine. They are but humans after all.

(Frowning intensifies)

Lel you mad bro

Oh, and if we take Guardsmen instead, it'd be like a hundred guys per marine. CCCCCCCCCCC:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and now I imagine a 1v4 game of 4000 points VS 4x1000 points- me VS Miko, Troike, Sydney and Melissia. I'd get crushed, sure, my army is horribly uncompetitive and Dominioncheese worries me, but it's a cool thought.

Hehe, oh, that would be glorious.

That said, it's often the 'uncompetitive' options that give Sisters armies trouble! (20-strong CSM squads, for example).

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
it'd be closer to 10 Sisters per Marine. They are but humans after all.

(Frowning intensifies)

Lel you mad bro

Oh, and if we take Guardsmen instead, it'd be like a hundred guys per marine.

Takes only one with a plasma gun, ah!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:
You mean like how the Fang + support fleet scared off Battle Fleet Pacificus (Of Segmentum Pacificus) and held out against an IG siege for 3 years.

Bucharis forces were not IG. They were thugs enlisted by the cardinal.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Because if they manage to wipe out a chapter and lose six orders while doing so, then sure, they succeeded, but not necessarily efficiently.

If those are one-hundred-strong ordo minoris, then they are pretty efficient, considering how they do not have any implant and are still able to kill almost twice their number in marines.

Sisters of Battle 2nd ed wrote:With almost every system consolidated under his rule over a vast track of space, he moved on. Three more Imperial Guard regiments had joined Gasto's mercenaries.

Not quite "Just Thugs".

 Troike wrote:
That wouldn't really work in-game, though. Somebody needs to be the HQ.

Uh ? In game, it would just be about one squad who is painted differently from the others. No need for anything else. You do not even have the right to ally with your own codex anyway !

 Troike wrote:
Sure, but as Miko mentioned, the SoB recruitment rate is somewhat slow.

I do not think it is slower than the marine recruitment rate.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
The Marines have much better equipment (By virtue of having more different wargear for various situations), have bigger guns (YMMV on this one though), have better quality wargear (Where is your artificier armour?), have better aircraft (Arguably- does the SoB actually have any real aircraft on their own or will they have to poke the navy?), SoB completely lack anti-infantry artillery, snipers and light infantry, the Penitent Engines are jokes (The moment one is deployed it's going to be shot, the pilot is 100% exposed, same as repentia and arco-flagellants), Exorcists are strong but have limited utility, and if the battle ever reaches melee, SoB are very very outclassed. Marines also have drop pods, hell, they even have Centurions.

Ok, now you are comparing apples and oranges. The AS range is desperately sparse because GW never cared to add anything to it. That does not mean that the Sisters do not have more thing at their disposal than what is currently mentioned. Everything else while just be retroactively added, just like Centurions and Stormwhatever and all that were.
Beside, the Ecclesiarchy is extremely rich. You can be pretty sure they have money to buy much better equipment than even Astartes have if they want to. GW never cared to represent that aspect of the fluff in the actual army list, but that does not invalidate it. The Ecclesiarchy is sitting on a pile on money. They can get everything money can buy.

(And a DCA conclave with priest charging any non-terminator armor marine unit will mince it into small ribbons of bloody flesh )

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Hell, if it is a SW-like fight where the Marines are not actually corrupted, then the LOTD maybe shows up!

And ? If the Sisters manage to control themselves enough not to shoot those ghost allies out of reality, it might actually help them.

 Stonerhino wrote:
Not quite "Just Thugs".

Ok, thugs and dirty deserters !

Sororitas recruit maybe a hundred Sisters a year.

Those are then distributed between the Orders Sabine, Dialogous, Hospitaller, Pronatus and Militant.

Those are then further divided amongst the Major and Minor Orders within each subdivision.

This leads to each Major Order of the Adepta Soroitas maybe getting three recruits a year.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Sororitas recruit maybe a hundred Sisters a year.

Where does that comes from ?
I have always pictured the Adepta Sororitas as very decentralized. I know it is one of the most centralized organization in 40k, but given the setting (the difficulty and unreliability of communication and transport, the huge scale of the Imperium, along the archaic bureaucracy, etc), I still think it means something very decentralized by our standards. So, I would have expected many Scola Progenia in many worlds recruiting Sisters all over the galaxy. Hence more than a hundred a year.

Ok, now you are comparing apples and oranges. The AS range is desperately sparse because GW never cared to add anything to it. That does not mean that the Sisters do not have more thing at their disposal than what is currently mentioned. Everything else while just be retroactively added, just like Centurions and Stormwhatever and all that were.
Beside, the Ecclesiarchy is extremely rich. You can be pretty sure they have money to buy much better equipment than even Astartes have if they want to. GW never cared to represent that aspect of the fluff in the actual army list, but that does not invalidate it. The Ecclesiarchy is sitting on a pile on money. They can get everything money can buy.

Dark Heresy had an extensive list of Relics for the Sisters of Battle and the Ecclesiarchy, it was one of my favorite books because of how much faith could matter in making a simple tool powerful for the faithful, and I wish we had an extensive range like that. Even the bones of a saint, or Martyr could protect you as effectively as if you had a shield before you.

A hundred recruits a year is just impossible, they would have died out ages ago.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
A hundred recruits a year is just impossible, they would have died out ages ago.

IIRC the hundred is about how many get to swear the oath on Terra at a time. Still, they do have high recruitment standards - a Sister who takes up the bolter would meet the physical requirements for joining the Stormtrooper regiment.

Five hundred, sorry, not one hundred.

http://web.archive.org/web/20071218114030/http://es.games-workshop.com/especialista/inquisitor/bestiario/repentia.html

Sadly the most detailed information about Sisters recruitment we have.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Oh, and now I imagine a 1v4 game of 4000 points VS 4x1000 points- me VS Miko, Troike, Sydney and Melissia. I'd get crushed, sure, my army is horribly uncompetitive and Dominioncheese worries me, but it's a cool thought.

Ha. Well, I don't yet have 1000 points of Sisters, so you might be at an advantage.
Also I am amused by the idea of a Dominion rush that huge.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I do not think it is slower than the marine recruitment rate.

It does take longer to produce a Battle Sister than a Space Marine, though.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Ok, now you are comparing apples and oranges. The AS range is desperately sparse because GW never cared to add anything to it. That does not mean that the Sisters do not have more thing at their disposal than what is currently mentioned. Everything else while just be retroactively added, just like Centurions and Stormwhatever and all that were.
Beside, the Ecclesiarchy is extremely rich. You can be pretty sure they have money to buy much better equipment than even Astartes have if they want to. GW never cared to represent that aspect of the fluff in the actual army list, but that does not invalidate it. The Ecclesiarchy is sitting on a pile on money. They can get everything money can buy.

I can agree with this. We probably only look under-equipped because or model range has gone un-updated for quite some time. If we're to go purely by fluff, then the Sisters can acquire pretty much any equipment they'd need.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

Hell, if it is a SW-like fight where the Marines are not actually corrupted, then the LOTD maybe shows up!

I'm not sure if it's a retcon, new fluff, or if it's always been the case (though I do think it's the latter. Pretty sure the LoTD has always been stated in the fluff to help "Imperial Forces", not just "marines"), but at least with the new LoTD codex, it's now likely "canon" that the LoTD helps all Imperial Armies, not just marines. So it's possible the LoTD would be on the sister's side, depending on how things go. At the very least, the LoTD can't be used as a factor in the Marine's advantage when the LoTD could help any Imperial faction, including sisters, not just Marines.

 Troike wrote:

It does take longer to produce a Battle Sister than a Space Marine, though.

It depends.

Marines are just recruited at an older age.

They also consume more resources (Longer lives, bigger means bigger wargear, rare tech required to make and maintain marine, etc.)

Training a Sister from entry into the Schola to deployment on the battlefield takes twelve to seventeen years. Training a Marine from recruitment to graduating from the Scout Company takes six to eight years.

While Space Marines are more-expensive to train than Sisters...

... there are more Space Marines in the galaxy than there are Sisters of Battle.

 Psienesis wrote:
While Space Marines are more-expensive to train than Sisters...

... there are more Space Marines in the galaxy than there are Sisters of Battle.

That's because the only - real - requirement to become a Marine is compatibility with the geneseed. Any selection rituals and tests a Chapter uses are in the end needless. The implants and hypnotherapy will lift them so far above what they were that it really makes no difference if one was a strong hunter or an anemic scavenger.

While that's true, it's all the additional requirements that (in part) limit who can be a Space Marine. After all, you gotta pass the basic training before you start getting the implants.

 Psienesis wrote:
... there are more Space Marines in the galaxy than there are Sisters of Battle.

… maybe. We do not have any precise figures on the total number of Sisters.

We have a pretty good picture of there being no more than 200K (at the outest of outsides) Battle Sisters in the galaxy. That's six Major Orders with many, many thousands and then a whole lotta Minor Orders capping out at a max of 1000 Sisters.

 Troike wrote:

Ha. Well, I don't yet have 1000 points of Sisters, so you might be at an advantage.

Vassal.

Vassal could be done. Vassal is not region specific.

Vassal seems rather clunky to me, and I've never really gotten into it. That said, it remains very viable. But let's take that to PM and let the thread go back to its topic, aye?

No, because I want in on this deal >:c

Them Sisters need proper artillery support