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2014/11/11 21:35:10
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
There are rumblings within the Hospital/Healthcare industry (ie, actual hospitals, Dr offices, ancillary services, etc...) to form a collective group to participate in offering their own "insurance-type" program.
So, instead of paying out to Blue Cross/Blue Shields or United Healthcare... you'd pay directly to something like the Mayo Clinic Health System and use their facilities.
Like existential HMOs and PPOs?
Somewhat... but, think more on regional scale where various organizations collaborate on this endeavour.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2014/11/11 21:47:42
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
You can choose to ignore your politicians if you want to but an informed electorate cannot be ignorant of the process of governing.
I never said that I ignore my politicians.I said that we, referring to Americans, elect politicians so that they can ignore us; also referring to Americans.
Politicians have a responsibility to not be ignorant of the subject matter the bills they vote on concern, accurately represent the content of the bills they propose and vote on to their constituents, know the content of the bills they vote on and vote in accordance with the best interests of their constituents.
Obama did all of those things, to the best of his ability.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2014/11/11 21:52:45
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
Politicians have a responsibility to not be ignorant of the subject matter the bills they vote on concern, accurately represent the content of the bills they propose and vote on to their constituents, know the content of the bills they vote on and vote in accordance with the best interests of their constituents.
Obama did all of those things, to the best of his ability.
Sure...
But, he's been weighed, measured and found wanting.
Wat: You have been weighed.
Roland: You have been measured.
Kate: And you have absolutely...
Chaucer: Been found wanting.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2014/11/11 21:53:21
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
You can choose to ignore your politicians if you want to but an informed electorate cannot be ignorant of the process of governing.
I never said that I ignore my politicians.I said that we, referring to Americans, elect politicians so that they can ignore us; also referring to Americans.
Politicians have a responsibility to not be ignorant of the subject matter the bills they vote on concern, accurately represent the content of the bills they propose and vote on to their constituents, know the content of the bills they vote on and vote in accordance with the best interests of their constituents.
Obama did all of those things, to the best of his ability.
Our politicians are supposed to govern on our behalf and represent our interests. I'm curious to know how you think they can do that while pretending we don't exist.
Obama spent millions of dollars across all forms of media to champion his ideal version A of the ACA and then went silent when the legislation eventually evolved into version D that directly contradicted his previous statements about the legislation. That's not informing the American people about the most important piece of legislation in your governing agenda to the best of his ability. Please show me one instance of Obama calling a press conference to tell the media and the public exactly what was in the ACA that he signed into law.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
2014/11/11 22:04:45
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
You can choose to ignore your politicians if you want to but an informed electorate cannot be ignorant of the process of governing.
I never said that I ignore my politicians.I said that we, referring to Americans, elect politicians so that they can ignore us; also referring to Americans.
Politicians have a responsibility to not be ignorant of the subject matter the bills they vote on concern, accurately represent the content of the bills they propose and vote on to their constituents, know the content of the bills they vote on and vote in accordance with the best interests of their constituents.
Obama did all of those things, to the best of his ability.
Our politicians are supposed to govern on our behalf and represent our interests. I'm curious to know how you think they can do that while pretending we don't exist.
Obama spent millions of dollars across all forms of media to champion his ideal version A of the ACA and then went silent when the legislation eventually evolved into version D that directly contradicted his previous statements about the legislation. That's not informing the American people about the most important piece of legislation in your governing agenda to the best of his ability. Please show me one instance of Obama calling a press conference to tell the media and the public exactly what was in the ACA that he signed into law.
You do realize that the ACA is 900 odd pages right? With lots of details that the average Joe either won't understand or doesn't care about anyway.
Edit: Obama did actually talk about ACA for some 47m to congress in 2009. linkjust the text Did he go into complete detail on the 900 odd page law? No, but that would have taken well more than 47m and would have lead to everyone in the room falling asleep after an hour or so. Did he make promises he didn't keep? Of course, but then again situations evolve and every politician makes promises they never keep.
Note this speech was on September 9th 2009, and law was signed march 2010. So the president was laying out his plan and trying to explain it before the law was done.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/11 22:18:17
2014/11/11 22:06:17
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
Somewhat... but, think more on regional scale where various organizations collaborate on this endeavour.
Like DuPage Medical Group, which collaborates with numerous service and insurance providers?
No.
Hypothetically, it'd be more like, DuPage would create partnerships with other regional service providers (ie, MRI offices, orthapedic outpatient surgery, etc...) and call it the "DuPage Partnerships™". Patients would pay DuPage Partnerships™ and use the facilities under that structure.
Not really all that different from the patient's perspective (except, potentially realizing cost savings)... but, the legal environment I don't believe can support that model right now.
Our politicians are supposed to govern on our behalf and represent our interests. I'm curious to know how you think they can do that while pretending we don't exist.
Politicians know people exist, that's why polling is such a lucrative industry.
Hypothetically, it'd be more like, DuPage would create partnerships with other regional service providers (ie, MRI offices, orthapedic outpatient surgery, etc...) and call it the "DuPage Partnerships™". Patients would pay DuPage Partnerships™ and use the facilities under that structure.
That's exactly what DMG does.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/11 22:19:05
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2014/11/11 22:23:24
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
Goes to show how ridiculous Pelosi's "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it" really is...
Sorry dude you fell for an easy republican trick. The actual law is only 906 pages, but people get confused as this article points out. link
So where did the 2,400-page number come from? The Affordable Care Act, as you’ll recall, was the subject of much debate and alternation in Congress during Obama’s first year in office. One early version of the bill (that’s the bill, not the law) -- known as House Resolution 3590, as amended by the Senate -- ran to 2,076 pages. A subsequent version of this bill, passed by the U.S. Senate Dec. 24, 2009, was 2,409 pages long. Voila! That’s where the elusive, often-cited figure comes from. So, while it’s not accurate to call the “Obamacare” law 2,400 pages, it is correct to call one version of the bill 2,400 pages. Confusing, I know.
Please show me one instance of Obama calling a press conference to tell the media and the public exactly what was in the ACA that he signed into law.
I never claimed that he did.
So you admit that Obama never told the public the content of the bill he signed into law but you still claim that he informed the public of the content of that bill
to the best of his ability
? If you go to great lengths to tell the American people that a piece of legislation is going to do X but then the final version doesn't do X but instead does Y and you deliberately avoid telling people about the change, that is both dishonest and irresponsible.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
2014/11/11 22:31:37
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
Goes to show how ridiculous Pelosi's "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it" really is...
Sorry dude you fell for an easy republican trick. The actual law is only 906 pages, but people get confused as this article points out. link
So where did the 2,400-page number come from? The Affordable Care Act, as you’ll recall, was the subject of much debate and alternation in Congress during Obama’s first year in office. One early version of the bill (that’s the bill, not the law) -- known as House Resolution 3590, as amended by the Senate -- ran to 2,076 pages. A subsequent version of this bill, passed by the U.S. Senate Dec. 24, 2009, was 2,409 pages long. Voila! That’s where the elusive, often-cited figure comes from. So, while it’s not accurate to call the “Obamacare” law 2,400 pages, it is correct to call one version of the bill 2,400 pages. Confusing, I know.
You forgot the additional regulations needing to implement the law.
Still a clusterfeth.
Fair, but those are not part of the law but "supplements". Kinda like how some games have a core rulebook and then a lot of supplements after the game has been out for awhile.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/11 22:44:26
2014/11/12 16:02:07
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
This video appears to be from a lecture Gruber gave at Washington University in St. Louis in October of last year, entitled “Cost of Health Care.”Gruber’s remarks can be heard around the 31-minute mark of the University’s video of the event saying that a part of the Obamacare passed because “the American people are too stupid to understand the difference.”
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2014/11/12 16:03:19
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
It's a long video and I only watched it once last night...
Something to the effect how the drafters (ie, the Democrats) crafted the language of the PPACAlaw so that it achieved their goals, by fooling the public
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/12 16:12:00
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2014/11/12 16:15:04
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
It's a long video and I only watched it once last night...
Something to the effect how the drafters (ie, the Democrats) crafted the language of the PPACAlaw so that it achieved their goals, by fooling the public
I'll have to check that out. I wasn't sure what it ment out of context.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
2014/11/12 16:58:15
Subject: US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
So far the president has been trying to put the Republicans on Defense by advocating for an outside the beltwy AG nominee and now is Climate Change talks. H eis inviting the R's to raise a political ruckus.
Of course, it is all theatre as the new Congress doesn't take office until 2015 IIRC.
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2014/11/14 17:37:47
Subject: US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
It requires 2/3 to convict a President in the Senate.
Barring that it would be fun to defund the Whitehouse.
What they should do?
1. Sue to enforce.
2. Pass a budget massively increasing border security. Pas it as a separate measure. Dare the President not to sign it.
3. Pass something more compreshensive but include #2. Dare the President not to sign it.
4. DOn't get you panties in a wad and move onto other business. This hasn't changed anything.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/14 18:50:09
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/11/14 18:49:23
Subject: US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
Easy E wrote: So, how about that supposed immigration related Executive Action eh? What will the Republicans do as the Pres waves a red cape in their face?
What they CAN do is to issue a normal Budget (w/o DHS funding).
Then, pass a specific budget for DHS expressly forbidding Obama from issuing executive amnesty.
If Obama vetos that... then, only essential people/functions will be funded. NEW immigration/amnesty functions will be defunct due to lack of funding.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2014/11/14 22:31:47
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
So you admit that Obama never told the public the content of the bill he signed into law but you still claim that he informed the public of the content of that bill
to the best of his ability
?
I admit Obama never recited it verbatim, as no politician ever has with respect to any legislation.
I mean, really, would you listen to Obama reciting legislation? I certainly wouldn't. Especially not given that the proposed legislation was freely available in textual format prior to its passage.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2014/11/14 22:46:34
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
So you admit that Obama never told the public the content of the bill he signed into law but you still claim that he informed the public of the content of that bill
to the best of his ability
?
I admit Obama never recited it verbatim, as no politician ever has with respect to any legislation.
I mean, really, would you listen to Obama reciting legislation? I certainly wouldn't. Especially not given that the proposed legislation was freely available in textual format prior to its passage.
So now you're retracting your claim that Obama informed the public of the content of the ACA "to the best of his ability"? Obama went on a massive multi media campaign making specific statements about the ACA that, once a the final version was passed by Congress, became false statements. Obama made no massive multi media effort to explain to the American people that the bill he had previously championed was not the bill he was signing into law. That's a lie of omission and is dishonest behavior.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
2014/11/14 22:56:50
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
Obama went on a massive multi media campaign making specific statements about the ACA that, once a the final version was passed by Congress, became false statements. Obama made no massive multi media effort to explain to the American people that the bill he had previously championed was not the bill he was signing into law. That's a lie of omission and is dishonest behavior.
Probably because anyone who cared was paying attention to Congress, rightly, and not Obama.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/14 22:58:24
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2014/11/16 20:02:34
Subject: US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
