Sasori wrote:

 Mavlun wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Mavlun wrote:
The Necron have without a doubt the most advanced technology, absolutely leagues above anything the Tau have at the moment. However that stems from the aid they got from the C'Tan, not the necrontyr race itself. And I am not aware of them advancing absolutely at all technologically since they destroyed the C'Tan and went to sleep...

Actually, Necrons had most of their technology before they contacted the C'tan.

In Oldcron fluff, they were just about pre-FTL when they contacted the C'tan, only held back by their foreshortened lifespans.

In Newcron fluff, they had an FTL empire spanning half the galaxy before they contacted the C'tan, and only spoke to the C'tan in order to get a trump card against the Eldar when their super-tech wasn't enough to overcome the Eldar warp powers.

Wut?

"Unable to find peace on their own planet, the Necrontyr blindly groped out towards other worlds. Using stasis-crypts aboard slow burning torch ships, they began to colonise other planets."
My original point was that without the C'Tan, there wouldn't have been any necrons at all in 40K, as it was the Deceiver that came up with the process of bio-transference (and also without the Burning C'Tan, they wouldn't have access to Dolmen Gates either). It's without a doubt that the necrontyr were still so far beyond current technology, it's not even funny. (fun fact: The celestial orrery was created before the War in Heaven)

That quote, is from the VERY beginning of their empire. They had a Galaxy spanning empire LONG before the C'tan came to them.

The Necrontyr had far superior technology to the other races, long before they became the Necrons. The Necrontyr had superior technology to the Old ones, who were considered the only rival to them in the galaxy at the height of their empire.

They also had all of the developed technologies except their body before the C'tan.

Canoptek Constructs
Living Metal
Superior Navy
Dimensional mastery.

All of this and more. The Necontyr also only got the knowledge of how to perform bio-tansfer from the C'tan. Szeras is the one who actually made it happen, with Necrontyr Technology.

EDIT: Missed this one.

Really? I mean, the Eldar and Necron lords have a lot of experience and a lot of knowledge, but what evidence do we have to suggest they're good at quick thinking, innovating, or original thought? Didn't the smartest smarty Eldar of all time get out-thought by the Armless Wonder? Doesn't Farsight have far more tactical insight- especially against Orks, which are marked by being incredibly cunning of a simple sort- than the oldest of old Necrons?

Keep in mind, that Necrons are now machines, and the better bodies can process millions of outcomes and secnerios in a fraction of a fraction of a second. Of all the races, Necrons have quick thinking. We have that several crypteks that are still innovating in this day and age. Tolhok and Szeras are good examples of this. To innovate shows original thought.

Farsight really has nothing on Imotekh and Zahndrekh. He's better at Orks compared to Imotekh, but Imotekhs campaigns span entire sectors at a time. No one currently alive has shown the sheer tactical genius that Imotekh has.

Kutlakh has shown a brutal display of tactics, conquering over sixty planets in less than a hundred days. Not even crusade era Space Marines had this kind of track record.

Zahndrekh has shown to win against multiple factions so far, everything from Orks to Multiple space marine chapters.

Keep in mind, that the Necrons have been playing at intergalactic warfare much longer than anyone else. The fact that the now have the immortality and processing power of Machines has only enhanced this.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:

 Banzaimash wrote:
From best to worst I reckon it's something like this:

- Eldar/ Necrons (their lords anyway)
- Tau
- Space Marines
- Humans
- Tyranids
- Orks

Space Marines do not have any implants that boost their mental capabilities. Their bodies are heavily augmented but their minds do not have any advantage over a regular human mind. They do have auto-senses in their armour which helps to boost their comprehension of battlefield data but I wouldn't say your average Marine will be 'smarter' than the average human. I'd personally suggest, nothing really to back this up it's just my personal thought, that due to the massive amount of unnatural changes their bodies go through over the years to become a fully-fledged Marine their mental capacities may be hindered as their mind struggles to deal with the physical and physiological changes as well as to learn everything a Marine is taught whilst in training.

remember though, it's an average. the Marines are picked from the best and brightest a chapter can find...

meanwhile well..... think about how stupid your average person is

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:

 Banzaimash wrote:
From best to worst I reckon it's something like this:

- Eldar/ Necrons (their lords anyway)
- Tau
- Space Marines
- Humans
- Tyranids
- Orks

Space Marines do not have any implants that boost their mental capabilities. Their bodies are heavily augmented but their minds do not have any advantage over a regular human mind. They do have auto-senses in their armour which helps to boost their comprehension of battlefield data but I wouldn't say your average Marine will be 'smarter' than the average human. I'd personally suggest, nothing really to back this up it's just my personal thought, that due to the massive amount of unnatural changes their bodies go through over the years to become a fully-fledged Marine their mental capacities may be hindered as their mind struggles to deal with the physical and physiological changes as well as to learn everything a Marine is taught whilst in training.

remember though, it's an average. the Marines are picked from the best and brightest a chapter can find...

meanwhile well..... think about how stupid your average person is

Marines tend to be from backwaters, actually.

I'd rate them thus:

Actual Intelligence

Spoiler:

Eldar - they live long lives and experience many different things, and they are disciplined because of it.
Necrons - nothing beats the precision of robotic logic.
Tau - Tau live relatively short lives (40 or so years I believe) and yet can become master tacticians and excellent inventors in those short years. They are completely at odds with eldar, and yet the result is the same.
Humans - Despite humanity seeming to be a stupid, recidivist group of people in 40k, they're generally quite smart. Humans may be dumber than eldar, but they still manage to beat eldar.
Chaos - Chaos warlords tend to be passable in intelligence and excellent fighters, except maybe marines leaders. Chaos demons are next to mindless IMO.
Dark Eldar - are the image of insanity. They saw their entire realm destroyed by lust and decadence, and yet they continue to do it.
Tyranids - not expressly intelligent, but that's by design. The thinkers of 'nids are hugely intelligent, with the swarmlord's tactical genius far outstripping that of even eldar commanders. However, their grunts and monsters are stupid beyond compare, intentionally.
Orks - Aren't technically intelligent, but their intelligence is programmed - so mekboys know as much or more about technology than a marine techmarine might, while a painboy is an excellently practiced field surgeon who, if not for his crude and humourous shenanigans, would probably be at least as skilled as a chapter apothecary.

Strategic/Tactical Intelligence


Tau - Tau are excellently flexible tacticians and are very rarely caught off guard. This is why they can prevail over orks where necrons can't.
Tyranids - Adaptive Biology, Bitch.
Necrons - As good as tau, bar orks.
Chaos - Excellent at what they know, and what they know never changes.
Humans - Quite cunning, with just enough brutality in the mix to make them effective.
Dark Eldar - Brutally effective
Eldar - Not quite so cunning, and often headstrong enough that their plans

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:

 Banzaimash wrote:
From best to worst I reckon it's something like this:

- Eldar/ Necrons (their lords anyway)
- Tau
- Space Marines
- Humans
- Tyranids
- Orks

Space Marines do not have any implants that boost their mental capabilities. Their bodies are heavily augmented but their minds do not have any advantage over a regular human mind. They do have auto-senses in their armour which helps to boost their comprehension of battlefield data but I wouldn't say your average Marine will be 'smarter' than the average human. I'd personally suggest, nothing really to back this up it's just my personal thought, that due to the massive amount of unnatural changes their bodies go through over the years to become a fully-fledged Marine their mental capacities may be hindered as their mind struggles to deal with the physical and physiological changes as well as to learn everything a Marine is taught whilst in training.

remember though, it's an average. the Marines are picked from the best and brightest a chapter can find...

meanwhile well..... think about how stupid your average person is

Marines tend to be from backwaters, actually.

I'd rate them thus:

Actual Intelligence

Eldar - they live long lives and experience many different things, and they are disciplined because of it.
Necrons - nothing beats the precision of robotic logic.
Tau - Tau live relatively short lives (40 or so years I believe) and yet can become master tacticians and excellent inventors in those short years. They are completely at odds with eldar, and yet the result is the same.
Humans - Despite humanity seeming to be a stupid, recidivist group of people in 40k, they're generally quite smart. Humans may be dumber than eldar, but they still manage to beat eldar.
Chaos - Chaos warlords tend to be passable in intelligence and excellent fighters, except maybe marines leaders. Chaos demons are next to mindless IMO.
Dark Eldar - are the image of insanity. They saw their entire realm destroyed by lust and decadence, and yet they continue to do it.
Tyranids - not expressly intelligent, but that's by design. The thinkers of 'nids are hugely intelligent, with the swarmlord's tactical genius far outstripping that of even eldar commanders. However, their grunts and monsters are stupid beyond compare, intentionally.
Orks - Aren't technically intelligent, but their intelligence is programmed - so mekboys know as much or more about technology than a marine techmarine might, while a painboy is an excellently practiced field surgeon who, if not for his crude and humourous shenanigans, would probably be at least as skilled as a chapter apothecary.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Intellectually speaking Dark Eldar are being vastly over looked if we aren't counting warp magicks as tech. The dark city isn't just some hive of scum and villainy (well...it is) but they are villians they get stuff done. They have some tech far beyond what the craftworlders have accomplished and they did it without psykic cheating (examples being the shatter shard, the ability to 'turn off' suns, regeneration and also BLACK HOLES IN BOXES!). Tactically they are one of the most efficient forces there is, despite how black library likes to portray them, in codex most of their raids are conducted without a hitch to he letter of tactical genius. Simply look at Malys's battle for an example.

Haemonculi are some of the most knowledgeable scientists there are, behind crypteks in all but biology but still ahead of most other races. The way I see it, only counting races in how much they accomplish rather then living off old tech.

Tau/Tyranids
Dark Eldar
Necrons
Eldar
Humans
Orks

Tyranids are so high because they are easily the most accomplished in biological warfair, Tau because of how much they accomplish in so little time. Necrons and Eldar both mainly use tech that they already have, but still far ahead of those behind them. I understand Orks are hard to place, but the highest Imperial Tech is more advanced then the highest Ork tech so that's what I based that on.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
That depends on your definition of 'gods', I think.

They were omnipotent (but not omnipresent) reality warpers that fed off stars and consume souls, where the chaos gods are omnipresent (but not omnipotent) reality warpers that feed off emotions and consume souls.

Necrons id put at a draw since alot of their tech based on my memory is taken from the C'Tan

EmpNortonII wrote:
Are there specific descriptions in novels on how cunning and smart the main races of 40k are?

Tau are described to often outsmart Imperial commanders, holding off much-larger forces with smaller but better-coordinated forces commanded by seemingly smarted commanders, despite most of them dying of old age at 50.

The Imperium, despite holding millions of worlds, haven't managed to develop any technology on the same level as what they came up with before the Emperor was struck down. Chaos has had 10,000 years for the Dark Mechanicum to work without interference, and the best they came up with was the Obliterator virus, which they can't really claim most of the credit for.

The Eldar without the Webways (which they didn't create) seem to be worse off in most ways to the IoM... and almost every race would be crippled without 'technology' based on the Warp.

Tau, in contrast, were using spears 7,00 years before the current 40k date, and now they're fielding infantry guns stronger than any other race's standard issue... despite having an average lifespan much shorter than any other race's. Given how quickly Tau have to learn anything in order to accomplish things, is it fair to say Tau are, on average, much swifter learners than any of the other 40k races?