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Need some clarification here if some can help me understand better. Before there was a topic on here about the process of becoming a tactical marine and that the orders were different in some chapters. For example out of training a marine becomes a devastator then a scout then tactical they then move up the ranks as assault and then vets? Plus do they then become terminators or are terminators bred differently and go through different training? Was always confused about this.

I am moving the thread to the 40K Background forum.

You start scout.
Then depending on chapter, you generally go tactical, then can be assigned to a specialized squad depending on your skills (devastator, assault...). If you're a good leader, you go up the management chain (sergent, captain....). If you're a good warrior, you make it up to the veterans of the chapter, 1st company. If you're one of the best veteran, you may be issued a terminator armour.

This is for a regular chapter (say ultramarines). Some have variation around this theme.

 Seb wrote:
You start scout.
Then depending on chapter, you generally go tactical, then can be assigned to a specialized squad depending on your skills (devastator, assault...). If you're a good leader, you go up the management chain (sergent, captain....). If you're a good warrior, you make it up to the veterans of the chapter, 1st company. If you're one of the best veteran, you may be issued a terminator armour.

This is for a regular chapter (say ultramarines). Some have variation around this theme.

It's scout, dev, assault, tac, vet. As the normal progression. Scouts graduate to being the spare bolter marines in the dev squads.

Vets can use terminator armor if the mission requires it and there are suits available. Otherwise the take the field in PA.

Listen to this man above (Nevelon). He is spot on.

The main exception is the Space Wolves as they start as bloodclaws, after experience is gained the whole squad becomes grey hunters. With even more experience they may become long fangs. If the squad is suffers big losses they may become wolf scouts (hence the better stats) and if there is just one left he becomes a lone wolf. At any time an individual may get transfered to the wolfguard if the wolf lord thinks he is deserving but the squad (pack) stay together their whole career otherwise.

Oh and Black templars tend to assign scouts to a specific marine to train with hence we get crusade squads. Marshalls may remove some marines to become sword bretheren who either lead crusader squads or work as a team like veterans. However sword bretheren do not train neophytes (scouts).

Yep, just view Terminator Armor as special wargear that is available to veteran marines. That's all it is.

I thought terminators were a whole foot taller than standard space marines is this just their armor making them bigger or is it more human mods?

No, no, nothing special about the Marines inside Terminator armour. It's just the armour making them appear taller because of the giant carapace.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
No, no, nothing special about the Marines inside Terminator armour. It's just the armour making them appear taller because of the giant carapace.

There's also some BL books where SM's continue to grow throughout their lives at an extremely slow rate. So your terminator may be five or so inches taller than the average fresh out of the 10th Company mook marine. Termie armor does boost the height via extremely thick soles, although it probably shaves off a couple inches of the maximum height by crunching the wearer's back at a very strange angle.




Either somebody has a very sore neck, or they have some rather sore shoulders.

 kerikhaos wrote:
For example out of training a marine becomes a devastator then a scout then tactical they then move up the ranks as assault and then vets?

Successful Marine candidates that qualify for (and survive) all the physical augmentation and genetic enhancements enter the Scout Company (10th). When they have enough experience/black carapace implant fully matured they graduate to full Marine status and a suit of Power Armour. Then they serve as Devastator, Assault and Tactical Marines in Companies 9-2. Finally, once a Marine has enough battles and/or enough acts of valour under their belt (and provided there's space), they may get bumbed into the Veteran Company (1st).

Plus do they then become terminators or are terminators bred differently and go through different training?

No, Terminators are simply 1st Company Vets who have selected a suit of TDA from the Chapter armoury for that particular mission/campaign. They're bigger because TDA is bigger, thicker and heavier than standard issue PA.

Imagine it's like an Ork Nob in his basic armor, versus a Nob in Mega armor. It's just massively bulky wargear.

Great stuff everyone thanks a million for all the info it's cleared up everything perfectly for me. Thanks again

 monkeypuzzle wrote:
Listen to this man above (Nevelon). He is spot on.

The main exception is the Space Wolves as they start as bloodclaws, after experience is gained the whole squad becomes grey hunters. With even more experience they may become long fangs. If the squad is suffers big losses they may become wolf scouts (hence the better stats) and if there is just one left he becomes a lone wolf. At any time an individual may get transfered to the wolfguard if the wolf lord thinks he is deserving but the squad (pack) stay together their whole career otherwise.

I'm pretty sure it's the same for blood angels, that are assigned in assault before anything else.

 Seb wrote:

 monkeypuzzle wrote:
Listen to this man above (Nevelon). He is spot on.

The main exception is the Space Wolves as they start as bloodclaws, after experience is gained the whole squad becomes grey hunters. With even more experience they may become long fangs. If the squad is suffers big losses they may become wolf scouts (hence the better stats) and if there is just one left he becomes a lone wolf. At any time an individual may get transfered to the wolfguard if the wolf lord thinks he is deserving but the squad (pack) stay together their whole career otherwise.

I'm pretty sure it's the same for blood angels, that are assigned in assault before anything else.

Blood Angels are scouts first then assault marines, Space Wolves become Bloodclaws instead of scouts.

Am I right in thinking that the SW aspirants tend to be older than other chapters?

I've read the SW Codex dozens of times, and the fluff comes accross as them being chosen well in to adulthood...

This may have been covered in BL novels, but they are the worse sort of badly written guano and I can't stomach reading them.

 monders wrote:
Am I right in thinking that the SW aspirants tend to be older than other chapters?

I've read the SW Codex dozens of times, and the fluff comes accross as them being chosen well in to adulthood...

This may have been covered in BL novels, but they are the worse sort of badly written guano and I can't stomach reading them.

The age of aspirants differs from chapter to chapter. Some chapters recruit their aspirants when they are children, others when they are teens, and others, like the SW, when they are adults.
So yes, SW aspirants are older than those from many other chapters.

I don't know if the age has ever been stated for the Space Wolves, but do they recruit adults- or is it more that on Fenris you are considered an adult at a much younger age? I mean, ona Deathworld full of tribal nordic warfare, would you be an adult at 15-18?

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I don't know if the age has ever been stated for the Space Wolves, but do they recruit adults- or is it more that on Fenris you are considered an adult at a much younger age? I mean, ona Deathworld full of tribal nordic warfare, would you be an adult at 15-18?

They might... as with almost all thing 40k, it's unknown the ages at which warriors are recruited from the local tribes.
The fluff on Arjac Rockfist might indicate him might have been an adult when he was recruited - being "renowned as a giant of a man possed of prodigious strength" before being taken in by the Space Wolves, and was able to hold off a thousand kraken spawns for two hours with but a dozen Iron priests around that time.
Then again, no age was given.

For all we know Fenris might be such a hellhole that kids around the age of ten would be considered full-blown tribal warriors.

space marine recruits are picked up BEFORE they mature fully otherwise they have trouble with the change.

So after puberty you have huge issues with becoming a marine. It isnt impossible, just you have a much larger chance of rejection of the new organs.

So idealy you get picked up at around age 11-14 and put through tests to see if your strong and smart enough to even get the first implants. Over the next 5-7 years you are given the rest of the implants, assuming your body accepted the first.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I don't know if the age has ever been stated for the Space Wolves, but do they recruit adults- or is it more that on Fenris you are considered an adult at a much younger age? I mean, ona Deathworld full of tribal nordic warfare, would you be an adult at 15-18?

More the latter. IIRC, 3E C:SW has Logan Grimnar getting recruited at the age of 8, following his near-death against the warriors of another village. Ragnar Blackmane was also recruited as a teenager.

Veterans given the honour of donning terminator armour into battle also require some additional surgery so that they can properly mesh with the armour's Sensorium.

Eihnlazer wrote:
space marine recruits are picked up BEFORE they mature fully otherwise they have trouble with the change.

So after puberty you have huge issues with becoming a marine. It isnt impossible, just you have a much larger chance of rejection of the new organs.

So idealy you get picked up at around age 11-14 and put through tests to see if your strong and smart enough to even get the first implants. Over the next 5-7 years you are given the rest of the implants, assuming your body accepted the first.

^This.

It's why Kor Phaeron was never a proper space marine, nor Luther.

Eihnlazer wrote:
space marine recruits are picked up BEFORE they mature fully otherwise they have trouble with the change.

So after puberty you have huge issues with becoming a marine. It isnt impossible, just you have a much larger chance of rejection of the new organs.

So idealy you get picked up at around age 11-14 and put through tests to see if your strong and smart enough to even get the first implants. Over the next 5-7 years you are given the rest of the implants, assuming your body accepted the first.

The canix helix that the space marines take before induction into the wolves drastically changes their bodies. This may account for them being able to recruit after puberty.

 Gogsnik wrote:
Veterans given the honour of donning terminator armour into battle also require some additional surgery so that they can properly mesh with the armour's Sensorium.

Citation needed.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Gogsnik wrote:
Veterans given the honour of donning terminator armour into battle also require some additional surgery so that they can properly mesh with the armour's Sensorium.

Citation needed.

Maybe he means the shoulder dislocation required to allow the head to fit where it goes on the model

DOOMONYOU wrote:

Eihnlazer wrote:
space marine recruits are picked up BEFORE they mature fully otherwise they have trouble with the change.

So after puberty you have huge issues with becoming a marine. It isnt impossible, just you have a much larger chance of rejection of the new organs.

So idealy you get picked up at around age 11-14 and put through tests to see if your strong and smart enough to even get the first implants. Over the next 5-7 years you are given the rest of the implants, assuming your body accepted the first.

The canix helix that the space marines take before induction into the wolves drastically changes their bodies. This may account for them being able to recruit after puberty.

Now that sounds about right, and if it doesn't 'take' they go all Wolfen...?!

Time for a re-read!

Generally, only members of the 1st company wear Terminator armor.

A marine can be given the honor of joining the 1st company. Then he can wear Terminator armor.

A veteran marine of the 1st company can deploy in one of 4 squad types. Either Sternguard or Vanguard if not wearing Terminator armor, or as Assault or Tactical terminators.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Citation needed.

"Most Marine chapters maintain some Terminator suits in their armouries, and train some squads in their use. Some adaptive surgery for the sensorium interface is also necessary."

White Dwarf 109, page 32

Thank you.

You know, I had to struggle a bit to find that. I could've sworn I've read it in several publications but since you put me on the spot I couldn't see it anywhere...