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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/07 05:44:50
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Such is often they way. We read something, internalise it to our headcanon, and start to believe that it's referenced canonically a lot more often than it is, because it's true, so why wouldn't people talk about it more?
I used to have the same issue with Miriael. I believed for years that she was mentioned in C:SoB 2e, but she isn't, anywhere'. She wasn't invented until years after that book was published.
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/07 07:33:37
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Apprehensive Inquisitorial Apprentice
High in the Rocky Mts.
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Hah! That explains the little "smart-link nubs" on the Vet/Termie guys temples maybe, eh?
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]=[DAGGER> |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/07 07:44:50
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Those are Long Service Studs, lol. Each one means the guy's been on active duty for 100 years.
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/07 07:45:11
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws
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I believe the Veteran Marines are given Terminator Honors, thus you see Sterna Guard with loads of Terminator Honors on their armor. The actual Veteran Marines using the Terminator armor are generally in the chapter's first company. I imagine they move about to squads needing veteran Sgt's etc.
The actual Terminator Armor was used in some sort of extremely hot, magma level of heat, environment for mining or some such. The military incorporated the suits, and I'm sure modified them to use in combat.
If you read some of the Horus Heresy novels you'll see the Sgt.s and captains move about the company as they are needed. So they may be assigned a squad in first company yet Terminators aren't needed for a particular raid.
I'm by no means correcting anyone in this thread just putting in my 2 cents, it was a very good read. Nice to reflect upon the fluff of the game here and again.
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Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and to hear the lamentations of the women.
Twitter @Kelly502Inf |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/07 08:16:33
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Terminator Armour was originally based off designs for suits worn while maintaining starship engines from the inside - IE, in a pure plasma environment.
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/07 08:29:14
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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Makes you wonder why they are as effective as cardboard against plasma had it not been for the Crux Terminatus forcefield, then.
I assume that fluffwise they are resistant to it, but hey, it would be ''''''''''''''''''''unfair'''''''''''''''''''' if the plasma spammers faced an infantry unit they couldn't reliably slaughter.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/07 08:30:27
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/07 08:39:21
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Oh, that's because the Crux Terminatus has absolutely nothing to do with the force field.
The 5++ invulnerable save just replaces the 3+ on 2d6 save from second edition. It's an inherent part of the armour.
Crux Terminatus - Terminator Honours - is just a symbol that says you've been trained to use terminator armour. Veterans wear it as well, and it doesn't give them a 5++ save.
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/07 08:51:27
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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Still, a 5++ seems a bit inadequate if you are to actually work inside a plasma reactor, doesn't it?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/07 08:51:46
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Hallowed Canoness
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BrotherHaraldus wrote:Makes you wonder why they are as effective as cardboard against plasma had it not been for the Crux Terminatus forcefield, then.
That is how you see it. Personally, I wonder how comes, if it was designed specifically against plasma, that it is so much better at stopping ballistic than actual suits designed to allows the wearer to survive in an extremely hot environment, like say this one :
This bit of fluff about Terminator armor makes no sens to me. Protecting the wearer from an extremely hot environment is so different from protecting it from all kind of weapons…
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/07 08:53:16
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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It said it was designed to protect from various sources of extreme hazards, not just plasma, afaik.
Such as hyper-corrosive chemical storage tanks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/07 09:14:52
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Still very different that protecting from a kinetic projectile.
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/07 10:03:14
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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It is also mentioned how the armour was enhanced before it was issued for warfare use.
Presumably this includes kinetic protection.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/07 16:10:27
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Yeah. And then this armor that was build for heat/plasma protection, and where kinetic protection was added as an afterthought, ended up the very best armor in the Imperium against kinetic weapons. Does not make much sense if you ask me.
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/07 17:04:48
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Leader of the Sept
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Plasma weapons are still not that common, so maybe the need to hang kinetic armour on the thing degraded its shielding ability against heat based stuff. Alternatively, weaponised plasma is worse than reactor plasma as its a more directed threat and harder to keep away with handwavium type "shielding"?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/07 17:05:58
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/08 00:35:21
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'
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Exo-armour, from which Terminator armour is derived, is able to withstand impacts from high speed orbital micro debris because it is made from heavy gauge plasteel plating. Exo-armour is also suitable for working within plasma reactors and chemical environments.
How Terminator armour works in the game is irrelevant to how it actually works in the background. Terminators should be nigh on impossible to kill in-game but extending the logic you would only need ten marines for your army so, for the sake of having an actual army to play in the game they were significantly weaker due to abstraction.
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Be Pure!
Be Vigilant!
BEHAVE!
Show me your god and I'll send you a warhead because my god's bigger than your god. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/08 00:44:32
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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And because if you only needed to buy twenty Tactical Space Marines to get a nice-sized army GW would not get as much cash from you.
This is probably the single greatest reason for the races being so 'equalized' in the game compared to fluff.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/08 00:45:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/08 07:51:49
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Single worst reason, you mean.
Just because it's most likely doesn't mean it's good.
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/08 12:03:04
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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I meant 'great' as in 'large'
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/08 12:09:07
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Gogsnik wrote:Exo-armour, from which Terminator armour is derived, is able to withstand impacts from high speed orbital micro debris because it is made from heavy gauge plasteel plating.
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Which exo-armor ? Because it is a very generic word. And not everything called exoarmor can withstand impacts from high speed orbital micro debris.
Gogsnik wrote:Terminators should be nigh on impossible to kill in-game
No. You only think so because you are horribly underestimating everything that is not a marine.
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/08 14:50:26
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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Or maybe you're just horribly underestimating everything that is a marine. =P
See the hole in this kind of argument?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/08 14:50:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/08 22:44:13
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Marines consider heavy bolter a strong weapon and use it to kill other marines. Hence, heavy bolter is capable of killing marines. Imperial Guard has many heavy bolter. Oh, and a lot of much more powerful weapons. Hence they can kill marines.
Genestealer have been able to kill terminators in close combat in the fluff since Space Hulk. Hence they can kill normal marines without troubles.
Obviously a lot of thing can kill marines. You are totally overestimating them.
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/08 23:06:39
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Marines consider heavy bolter a strong weapon and use it to kill other marines. Hence, heavy bolter is capable of killing marines. Imperial Guard has many heavy bolter. Oh, and a lot of much more powerful weapons. Hence they can kill marines.
Genestealer have been able to kill terminators in close combat in the fluff since Space Hulk. Hence they can kill normal marines without troubles.
Obviously a lot of thing can kill marines. You are totally overestimating them.
*Pulls up Brothers of the Snake*
See this?
This is just as 'canon' as your reasoning, your game mechanics or your old fluff.
That is why you are actually under- and overestimating them both.
At the same time.
Like we all do.
And heavy bolter comparisons, really now? Logic like that is as brittle as a Snotling's mind in 40K. I can give all kinds of justifications for that to be wrong one way (Perhaps Marines have much better heavy bolters or HB shells? Maybe other Marine weapons are also rather slow at killing Marines so it remains a viable option overall?) or the other (Maybe the -guard- has better heavy bolters?)
Plus, you seem to have quite the vendetta against the poor, poor Marines, given how much you like putting up 'X also kills marines really good!' and equivalent in your posts.
Did a Marine steal your candy when you were a kid (Assuming you are not a kid now)? (;
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/03/08 23:09:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/08 23:13:24
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Brothers of the Snake, where a full quarter of a chapter was wiped out in a single battle, you mean?
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/08 23:19:20
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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Furyou Miko wrote:Brothers of the Snake, where a full quarter of a chapter was wiped out in a single battle, you mean?
I may or may not have mixed it up with another novel.
I am not great on which name corresponds to which novel.
But I think you can see my point regardless.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/09 00:02:18
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Hallowed Canoness
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No. It is the internet. If you do not post a picture, I will not see. And I have not read every black library either. Actually, the only one I read has the main protagonist and his guard comrade kill marines without too much difficulty.
BrotherHaraldus wrote:And heavy bolter comparisons, really now? Logic like that is as brittle as a Snotling's mind in 40K. I can give all kinds of justifications for that to be wrong one way (Perhaps Marines have much better heavy bolters or HB shells? Maybe other Marine weapons are also rather slow at killing Marines so it remains a viable option overall?) or the other (Maybe the -guard- has better heavy bolters?)
Heavy bolters are heavy bolters. There may be small differences, but nothing game-changing.
They stole my codices and models release to make more of their rainbow offspring  .
You can see my age on my profile page.
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/09 00:33:54
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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I think I found the problem.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/09 01:54:06
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'
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Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Which exo-armor ? Because it is a very generic word. And not everything called exoarmor can withstand impacts from high speed orbital micro debris.
You have a quote to support this statement? No? I didn't think so. In the background as written for Terminator armour then exo-armour is exo-armour is exo-armour. There are no different types. It is the name given to civilian suits whose plasteel plating provides protection from micro-debris and has the primary function of being used within plasma reactor shields and hazardous areas aboard chemical carriers.
No. You only think so because you are horribly underestimating everything that is not a marine.
Wrong. This is not my opinion it is the background. For example: "Tactical Dreadnought armour [is] virtually invulnerable to most weapons." Index Astartes: Deep Strike. The same article also provides an example of a terminator surviving being stepped on by a warlord Titan. It should also be noted that terminator armour is available outside of Space Marine Chapters and when I say, 'Terminators should be nigh on impossible to kill in-game' I say so because we are talking about terminator armour and not just about Space Marines.
I repeat again, that game rules are irrelevant, as units, like terminators or genestealers, and weapons, like heavy bolters, are not accurately represented in the game.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/09 01:54:50
Be Pure!
Be Vigilant!
BEHAVE!
Show me your god and I'll send you a warhead because my god's bigger than your god. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/09 02:13:03
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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In before Gogsnik is called a 'fanboy'
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/09 12:34:58
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Hallowed Canoness
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I thought exo-armour was the stuff used by the Squats to prevent them getting stepped on by random orks?
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/09 16:10:08
Subject: Tactical marines & terminators?
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Lit By the Flames of Prospero
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Furyou Miko wrote:Those are Long Service Studs, lol. Each one means the guy's been on active duty for 100 years.
The studs can actually mean a number of different things and they vary from chapter to chapter.
Some veterans don't have them regardless of their service time.
Some marines are given them every 10 years, 50 years, and some every 100 years.
Service studs are actually set out in the codex astartes but they're not necessary...
I JUST HAD A THOUGHT. What if someone got them every ten years and was in service for 300 years. Hellraiser anyone?
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Muh Black Templars
Blacksails wrote:Maybe you should read your own posts before calling someone else's juvenile. |
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