Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If you want to re-introduce a movement characteristic, I approve. However, reducing armies down from 6" as a minimum is a bad idea, unless you also increase the game length. One of the key improvements of 3rd over 2nd edition is that units can move further.

I advise you start with 6" and work up.

To back this up, let's say its a 6 turn game, and you're playing Imperial Guard with few chimera. One or more of the objectives are in your opponent's deployment zone. 6 turns of 4" movement is 24", which leaves you on the edge of your opponent's zone at best.

When infantry moved 3,4,and 5", transport vehicles had a valid purpose.

And if you allow unit to double time (2x movement no shooting) and assault ,(2 x movement into close assault.)

So transport double time moves 12" , then moves 6 and deploys unit , unit moves 4" ,thats 22" inches covered in 2 turns.


The ONLY reason GW increased movement rates was to counter the over effectiveness of shooting , when they removed the to hit modifiers!

Hormagaunts should have a much higher movement value than Space Marines.

I may have mis remembered but did hormagaunts not have a Movement of 6" in 2nd ed?(Charge range of 12")

Lanrak wrote:
I may have mis remembered but did hormagaunts not have a Movement of 6" in 2nd ed?(Charge range of 12")

Yes, and they also had a "leap" special rule that let them move another 6" and ignore intervening terrain (18" move total per turn). 2e hormagaunts were wicked fast.

Honestly there's no real reason to have a weapon skill and ballistic skill, pretty much 90 percent of models have the same stat line for Ws and BS.

Why bother with 2 different statistics? Have Ballistic skill absorbed into weapon skill and just give really amazing H T H units the ability to either have a +1 or give reroll a 1. Something similar to that. You could honestly just use the attack Characteristic for WS as well. 1 versus 1 is 4+ , 3+ on a charge. The higher your attack the more likely you are to hit with those attacks.

A high weaponskill rarely comes into play with the changes in the chart , I think the weapon skill has to be like 3 times your normal weaponskill to need a 6 to hit.

And what will you do with orkses, ig vets, tau, etc.

I would prefer to simply state the number the opponent has to roll to hit the model at range , and in close assault.

Eg
Stealth value of 4+.The opponent needs to roll 4+ to hit the model at range.(The Stealth value and dice roll are modified as required.)
Assault value 3+.The opponent needs to roll £+ to hit the model in assaults.(The Assault value and dice roll are modified as required.)

The assault value also determines the striking order in Assaults, highest first.

NO CHARTS OR TABLES !!! Just use the stats directly..

Hey guys, thanks for offering up all of the opinions, I know I haven't been able to update much of late. Because I HAD A BABY!!! woohoo!!! So, time for writing up about 40k has been cut to a minimum.

Starting to get into the swing of thing and coming up with me time here and there, so will be able to get some more rules and such written up, as well as hopefully do my first trial game. Very simple 500 point game. I'll post it here I guess? Probably shouldn't be over in battle reports.

My first dakka priority is to finally get all the pictures and write up done for my epic final game of 4000 points tyranids against SoB and guard.

I look forward to trying some stuff out and bouncing many more ideas off you guys. Everything is flexible and can be tried out as far as I'm concerned.

Congratulations!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lanrak wrote:
I would prefer to simply state the number the opponent has to roll to hit the model at range , and in close assault.

Eg
Stealth value of 4+.The opponent needs to roll 4+ to hit the model at range.(The Stealth value and dice roll are modified as required.)
Assault value 3+.The opponent needs to roll £+ to hit the model in assaults.(The Assault value and dice roll are modified as required.)

The assault value also determines the striking order in Assaults, highest first.

NO CHARTS OR TABLES !!! Just use the stats directly..

So you mean that a conscript that has picked up a lazgun for the first time in his life a day ago has the exact same chances of hiting a target as vindicare assasin with a sniper rifle?

@Koooaie.
No the OPPONENT has to roll over the target models skill.

So If a IG trooper wanted to hit a Tau in Close Combat he would need a 2+, a SM he would need a 4+ an chaos lord a 6+

And the same IG trooper shooting at a Land raider would need a 2+ to hit , at a Ork Mob 3+ chaos Cultist 4+ Eldar Rangers 5+ ratling sniper 6+

These values are modified by range and cover for shooting, and weapon types for close combat.

EG if models are in weapons range.

Alan' what is that units stealth value ?'
Bob '4+ but they are in cover and at long range so thats 6+'
Alan. ok , I need to roll 6s to hit.'

Alan 'What is you units assault value ?'
Bob '3+ .'
Alan, 'so if I charge them my Assault value will be higher . 2+ add 2 for charging , so my unit will strike first!'
Bob 'Yes, you need 3+ to hit my models, and I need 4+ to hit your models.'
Bob, '..but if i counter charge, I will strike first hitting your models on a 2+ , and you would need 5+ to hit mine...'

The skill of the target sets the basic to hit score.This is modified by basic elements to give simple and intuitive results.
I am not very good at explaining things, but I hope that helps?

 seapheonix wrote:
Hey guys, thanks for offering up all of the opinions, I know I haven't been able to update much of late. Because I HAD A BABY!!! woohoo!!! So, time for writing up about 40k has been cut to a minimum.
My first dakka priority is to finally get all the pictures and write up done for my epic final game of 4000 points tyranids against SoB and guard.

Incorrect without derailing this tread too much, weight, name ? And congrats
We also have new arrival Kourtney jean, 9lb 13ozs. 24/2/14 Yup I,m a grandad again.

Marella Aird Coffin, 19 inches, 7Lb 15.8oz. born 0601 march 16th.

Thanks guys.

 seapheonix wrote:
Marella Aird Coffin, 19 inches, 7Lb 15.8oz. born 0601 march 16th.

Thanks guys.

Hot dog! Congrats!

Okay, I have plans for my first test game here. I'm going to be running 500 points of tyranids vs eldar. Here is the tyranid list, I think I updated the codex to match the appropriate units. The doom returns!

HQ
Doom of Malan'tai...115pts
Troops
Termagants (20) 10x devourer.............120pts
Tyranid warriors (3) venom cannon....100pts
Hormagaunts (18)....................................90pts
Genestealers (5).......................................80pts

FOC is percentage based.
25% cap on HQ, Elite, Fast attack, Heavy.
30% cap on dedicated transports.
25% minimum troops.

Eldar to come when I figure it out.

Okay, eldar list is
HQ
Autarch, warp spider jump pack, death spinner, power weapon.......120
troops
Jetbikes (3).....................................................................................................51
Dire avengers (5) exarch, defend...............................................................85

Fast attack
Warp spiders (5) exarch, double spinner...............................................120

Transport
Wave serpent, star cannon........................................................................120

First game link.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/587004.page#6671582

Okay, next planned game is going to be eldar vs chaos at around 1000 points. I'm going to use a handful of terminators, terminator lord, and maybe a terminator sorcerer to emphasize the re-powering of 2+ saves. A handful of regular marines, and a helbrute. Does anyone have some preconceived notions of how these things could stand to be changed.

So with terminators, they have two weakness'. Volume of small arms fire, and cheap proliferation ap2.

Changing the stats of marines across the board will really help with small arms fire, toughness five makes light strength wounds less reliable. Ap 2
Proliferation being made a touch more costly will help mitigate that.

Walkers are part of the change I looked to make with all the vehicles. Change the explosion Result on damage table to additional hull points. Explosions caused when hull points are brought below 0.

Also walkers capable of moving through cover with no penalty.

Updated the rule book, I've now completed both movement and shooting phases. Working on the very different assault phase next.

Eldar codex HQ is wrapped up, and assault phase in the main codex is almost there.

Finished the assault phase, and just about done with the morale. I believe psychic powers and vehicles will be next

Psykers: I was thinking blessings and maledictions can be countered by expending a warp charge. Psychic powers slightly tweaked.

Vehicles: Change the damage table to no explosion, makes vechicles much more durable, and no more one shot kills without a super gun. Instead rolls of a 6 on damage table are d3 hull points.
Explosions happen when you take a vehicle past 0 hull points. -1, etc... Perhaps a larger explosion with a larger deficit?

Took a break as the week or two leading up to seventh, got really excited at the prospect that the new edition might be everything we ever wanted. With reality setting in, I'm back to the books and continuing to work on things.

Something I do like is the psychic phase being it's own phase, however I don't like the way it was executed at all. Leadership tests for psychic powers will return, although some of the mechanic of denying any spell will continue.

Trying to figure out how I want to do the psychic phase. Leadership is definitely back in, and I would like to keep the ability to contest psychic powers, but without the awkward random warp charges and such.

I'm thinking warp charges equivalent to mastery level, psyker a in the same unit can share warp charges.

For anti-power: deny the with is upon successful hit or malediction, deny he witch on a 6, +1 for psyker within 12", +1 if that psyker has a higher mastery level then the casting psyker. +1 for adamantium will.

Instead of using a psychic power, a psyker may attempt to enervate an enemy units psychic power. Choose a unit within 18" and line of sight of one of your psykers, that has a blessing or malediction you would like to remove. Expend one warp charge to roll off against the original casting psyker. The psyker with the greater master level gets +1, maybe +1 for additional warp charges.

Well. With the impending doom of the new eldar release. I thought I would revisit this old mental exercise. Because working on three armies, playing in a blood bowl league and raising a one year old isn't enough for me. New nid powers and some going over of the main rules. Tons still to do.