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It seems to be a commonly accepted fact in the world that Centurions, to be brief, suck. I'm sure the reasons are documented elsewhere, but I was wondering if there was a possible way to fix them?

It's clear that they were based on the Oblits and Mutilators. So why are the weapon options so limited? Why can't our Assault Cents have twin thunder hammers or something? What's wrong with the Dev Cents having twin HFs, ACs etc?

I know it's not much, but it may just help

While the general feeling maybe that the models suck and look bad. Dev cents are fine grav-cannons are great and used a fair bit in SM lists. Assault cents suffer from the same problem that almost all assault units face now, delivery problems.

I really don't think adding wepaon options would help as you still have the delivery problems and range options on the Dev cents wouldn't be used as grav-cannons are so good.

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
It seems to be a commonly accepted fact in the world that Centurions, to be brief, suck.

You've already lost me on your premise.

Devastator Centurions are actually pretty good, and I think that's the general consensus, as well. Grav Centurions, especially if backed by some Prescience, are grotesque.

Now Assault Centurions, on the other hand, blow chunks.

How to make them a choice I would take? Make vehicles tougher (thus making anti-vehicle choices more attractive), give them an invulnerable save, upgrade their flamers to heavy flamers, or reduce their points costs.

The issue with Centurions is they're comically expensive; anything they can do, a Devastator Squad or a Terminator Squad can do just as well at a cheaper pricepoint. They're functional at 2,500pt+ games, but anything smaller and you don't have three hundred points to throw at six Wounds worth of guys without an Invulnerable save.

They can do what terminators and devastators can't. Gravcannon spam. Basically, the only reason to take centurions imo. Mellee centurions are bad just cause mellee for slow models is bad in this edition no matter what.

Give 'em Earthshakers!

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Give 'em Earthshakers!

Curse you, I almost giggled like a maniac on a crowded bus.

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
It seems to be a commonly accepted fact in the world that Centurions, to be brief, suck. I'm sure the reasons are documented elsewhere, but I was wondering if there was a possible way to fix them?

It's clear that they were based on the Oblits and Mutilators. So why are the weapon options so limited? Why can't our Assault Cents have twin thunder hammers or something? What's wrong with the Dev Cents having twin HFs, ACs etc?

I know it's not much, but it may just help

Actually, they're more of an attempt to cash in on the success tau had. That's why they have the decimator protocol rule.

Also, devcents are great. Assault cents are meh, but 3 devcents with LC/ML gives you a solid anti-tank firebase, and GC/ML is a force to be reckoned with, especially if placed with good ol' tigglybits.

The only way that the Centurions can be fixed is if GW redesigns them to make them look better and allow everyone in the world to exchanged the old gakky looking ones for a better design model.

Rules wise I have no idea how they play, I refuse to learn them since I will never buy the models.

I honestly dont see a problem with the model itself...assuming it has a good paint job ive seen some incredible ones out there. Am I the only one here that actually likes these guys? i think my only complaint is that they're not pose able enough.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
It seems to be a commonly accepted fact in the world that Centurions, to be brief, suck. I'm sure the reasons are documented elsewhere, but I was wondering if there was a possible way to fix them?

It's clear that they were based on the Oblits and Mutilators. So why are the weapon options so limited? Why can't our Assault Cents have twin thunder hammers or something? What's wrong with the Dev Cents having twin HFs, ACs etc?

I know it's not much, but it may just help

Actually, they're more of an attempt to cash in on the success tau had. That's why they have the decimator protocol rule.

Also, devcents are great. Assault cents are meh, but 3 devcents with LC/ML gives you a solid anti-tank firebase, and GC/ML is a force to be reckoned with, especially if placed with good ol' tigglybits.

Gravspam is all well and good but we're talking a 24" range gun on a Slow and Purposeful model, they're way too easy to avoid. Lascannon/missile launcher Centurions are 280pts for three bodies, for the same price I could run two five-man Devastator squads with four guns each; they're more versatile in their weapon selection, they lose half as much firepower from each dead guy (multiple Wounds, higher Toughness, and Sv 2+ would mitigate this somewhat if we weren't living in an age with easy access to cheap AP2 blasts with good range), they're smaller (easier to get cover), and I can choose to buy a cheaper squad.

Devastator Centurions aren't strictly speaking bad, but they are a very expensive all-eggs-in-one-basket unit and are outperformed if you're on a points budget by plain, ordinary Devastators.

Give them Grav-Cannons!

Oh wait.

My Mathhammer has my GC/HB Dev-Cents doing pretty well against a variety of targets. That, and I didn't have 30pts for Missile Launchers.

Crazyterran wrote:
Give them Grav-Cannons!

Oh wait.

My Mathhammer has my GC/HB Dev-Cents doing pretty well against a variety of targets. That, and I didn't have 30pts for Missile Launchers.

They do well, but it's 250pts for a minimum grav-squad and if the other guy shoots at them with something big and scary they lose a lot of effectiveness for each model removed. To reiterate the point the math says they kill a lot of stuff but they're also really, really expensive for a small game.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
Give them Grav-Cannons!

Oh wait.

My Mathhammer has my GC/HB Dev-Cents doing pretty well against a variety of targets. That, and I didn't have 30pts for Missile Launchers.

They do well, but it's 250pts for a minimum grav-squad and if the other guy shoots at them with something big and scary they lose a lot of effectiveness for each model removed. To reiterate the point the math says they kill a lot of stuff but they're also really, really expensive for a small game.

Hail, brother!

Is there any particular reason why DA don't have access to these guys? Not that I particularly want them to, but why do so many other Legions have the option and we don't?

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
Give them Grav-Cannons!

Oh wait.

My Mathhammer has my GC/HB Dev-Cents doing pretty well against a variety of targets. That, and I didn't have 30pts for Missile Launchers.

They do well, but it's 250pts for a minimum grav-squad and if the other guy shoots at them with something big and scary they lose a lot of effectiveness for each model removed. To reiterate the point the math says they kill a lot of stuff but they're also really, really expensive for a small game.

Hail, brother!

Is there any particular reason why DA don't have access to these guys? Not that I particularly want them to, but why do so many other Legions have the option and we don't?

It doesn't fit with our organization chart, I don't think. Our First Company tends towards mysticism/secrets/sneakiness in a manner that Terminators fit better with than Centurions.

Gravcents in a land raider with chief libby tiggy and you can have a unit with 15 shots re roll to hit re roll to would ignore cover, ignore armour, and they are AS 2+/inv 4+, AND T5.

They start 12" up in LR, zoom up 12" pop smoke, turn 2 move 6" they hop out 6" (the bottom of the model's base to the exit can add another 2") and they have range 24" so provided they don't die turn one, they can start deleting units turn 2+.

Note, tiggy can give their LR a 4+ inv with forewarning.

Cents are good as they are. LOS with the serg lets you spread wounds around the unit so they usually survive pretty well as long as you dont stick em out in the open.

Toughness 5, 2 wound models with a 2+ save is acctually pretty good againgst most things.

Your opponents shouldnt really be able to close on em if your army includes screening biker units or even scout squads.

And while they arent super good in melee, at least with str5 they can even drop things like killa kans in close combat.

I think they are (with the exception of the lazcannon/ML version) appropriately costed for what they can do.


Just dont go in thinking they will auto-win the game or be able to survive everything and you will learn to take advantage of what they can do.

 Arbiter wrote:
Gravcents in a land raider with chief libby tiggy and you can have a unit with 15 shots re roll to hit re roll to would ignore cover, ignore armour, and they are AS 2+/inv 4+, AND T5.

They start 12" up in LR, zoom up 12" pop smoke, turn 2 move 6" they hop out 6" (the bottom of the model's base to the exit can add another 2") and they have range 24" so provided they don't die turn one, they can start deleting units turn 2+.

Note, tiggy can give their LR a 4+ inv with forewarning.

And you're dropping what, seven hundred points on this blob?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Arbiter wrote:
Gravcents in a land raider with chief libby tiggy and you can have a unit with 15 shots re roll to hit re roll to would ignore cover, ignore armour, and they are AS 2+/inv 4+, AND T5.

They start 12" up in LR, zoom up 12" pop smoke, turn 2 move 6" they hop out 6" (the bottom of the model's base to the exit can add another 2") and they have range 24" so provided they don't die turn one, they can start deleting units turn 2+.

Note, tiggy can give their LR a 4+ inv with forewarning.

And you're dropping what, seven hundred points on this blob?

Yeah Deathstars are silly and never work... Just like all those 700 point+ Beastpacks, Seer Councils, O'vestars, Screamerstars, Tiggy in a blanket, Farsight/sun Bombs.

If you take take Farsight, O'vesa, Torchstar, Sevrin Loth, 3+ Grav Cents. You now have a Twin Linked, Split Firing, Ignores Cover, Gate of Infinitied blob with a Riptide tanking any and everything.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
It seems to be a commonly accepted fact in the world that Centurions, to be brief, suck. I'm sure the reasons are documented elsewhere, but I was wondering if there was a possible way to fix them?

It's clear that they were based on the Oblits and Mutilators. So why are the weapon options so limited? Why can't our Assault Cents have twin thunder hammers or something? What's wrong with the Dev Cents having twin HFs, ACs etc?

I know it's not much, but it may just help

Actually, they're more of an attempt to cash in on the success tau had. That's why they have the decimator protocol rule.

Also, devcents are great. Assault cents are meh, but 3 devcents with LC/ML gives you a solid anti-tank firebase, and GC/ML is a force to be reckoned with, especially if placed with good ol' tigglybits.

Gravspam is all well and good but we're talking a 24" range gun on a Slow and Purposeful model, they're way too easy to avoid. Lascannon/missile launcher Centurions are 280pts for three bodies, for the same price I could run two five-man Devastator squads with four guns each; they're more versatile in their weapon selection, they lose half as much firepower from each dead guy (multiple Wounds, higher Toughness, and Sv 2+ would mitigate this somewhat if we weren't living in an age with easy access to cheap AP2 blasts with good range), they're smaller (easier to get cover), and I can choose to buy a cheaper squad.

Devastator Centurions aren't strictly speaking bad, but they are a very expensive all-eggs-in-one-basket unit and are outperformed if you're on a points budget by plain, ordinary Devastators.

Tigurius, Farsight. You build your army around them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zande4 wrote:

Yeah Deathstars are silly and never work... Just like all those 700 point+ Beastpacks, Seer Councils, O'vestars, Screamerstars, Tiggy in a blanket, Farsight/sun Bombs.

If you take take Farsight, O'vesa, Torchstar, Sevrin Loth, 3+ Grav Cents. You now have a Twin Linked, Split Firing, Ignores Cover, Gate of Infinitied blob with a Riptide tanking any and everything.

It took me a while to realise you were being sarcastic.

For the record, Deathstars are some of the more common armies in the game today. A well designed farsight bomb can easily clear everything within a 12" range, then move 24" away to repeat the process. Deathstars aren't bad armies, they just require closer inspection of the game situation than other armies do.

You can trust me. I've made four of the damn things.

We all know they were meant to be loyalist equivalents for Mutiliators and Obliterators. Go figure, the assault ones are just as bad as mutilators, and the shooty ones are pretty good (though I'd still take Oblits in a heartbeat).

Funnily enough, people seem to forget that the Siege Drills on assault centurions are NOT UNWIELDY. S9 AP2 at initiative 4 would be pretty amazing, especially on a T5 Sv2+ multi-wound model, if assaulting in general was worth it. From what I've seen at my FLGS, they perform really well when you get them to where they need to be. They are just dramatically too expensive to run because you have to spend another 200-250 points on a Storm Raven or Land Raider to utilize them.

It took me a while to realise you were being sarcastic.

For the record, Deathstars are some of the more common armies in the game today. A well designed farsight bomb can easily clear everything within a 12" range, then move 24" away to repeat the process. Deathstars aren't bad armies, they just require closer inspection of the game situation than other armies do.

You can trust me. I've made four of the damn things.

Haha, yeah Deathstars are great.

For the record, I came up with the Tiggy in a blanket title and I don't wan't to toot my own horn or anything but I think it's a pretty awesome name.

Heretic! You shall place me in no blanket!

Out of curiousity, what is this blanket? Centurions - Tiggy - Land Raider/Stormraven?

 Tigurius wrote:
Heretic! You shall place me in no blanket!

Out of curiousity, what is this blanket? Centurions - Tiggy - Land Raider/Stormraven?

Just anything bigger and stronger than he is. Centurions, Riptide + O'Vesa. All that good stuff.

 FirePainter wrote:
While the general feeling maybe that the models suck and look bad. Dev cents are fine grav-cannons are great and used a fair bit in SM lists. Assault cents suffer from the same problem that almost all assault units face now, delivery problems.

I really don't think adding wepaon options would help as you still have the delivery problems and range options on the Dev cents wouldn't be used as grav-cannons are so good.

Big Doors +10 mod for a rhino or drop pod (last which really shouldn't need it) Allows terminators and centurions to take as a transport, and to embark on the transport (for the rule lawyers).

My small group actually uses this.