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motherbrain wrote:
Hey hey.to the OP: keep on keeping on man, a buddy of man posted a similar 2000 pt version, and the wise counsel of this site has him second guessing. I'm hoping to get a game in with him soon to test it out.

I can't fault the maths of the post above, but I did you factor in losses from the Eldar? I mean the orks are not going to sit idle for 5 turns...

At some point a largish number of boys will be in range, firng many innacurate shots, and you will lose a few models.

To say otherwise would beggar belief.

- motherbrain

Just to clarify, I never assumed that the Orks would sit idle for 5 turns. However the Ork shootas are an 18" range, assault 2, strength 4 gun. This gives the Orks a maximum effective range of 24" (6" move and 18" shooting). In every deployment setup the "No-Mans Land" is a 24" gap or 12" from the centerline in both players direction. So we know for a fact that the armies are at least 24" apart at the beginning of the game. All I've got to do is deploy 1" behind my deployment zone line and the Orks are out of range. This means that at minimum, I'll have two rounds of shooting where all I've got to do is back up and pull the trigger. Because almost every gun in my list has a range double that of a shoota, and the shootas are incapable of even hurting the front/side armor of a Wave Serpent/Fire Prism and can only glance a War Walker, all I've really got to do is work my shooting from one end of the Ork line to the other keeping an adequate kill-zone(24") between my units and the OP's. As an example: If thirty Orks fills up one square foot of table space. Then every turn, assuming thirty unsaved wounds (which is only 75% of capacity on average) and I'm working from one end of the Ork lines to the other, I've cleared an additional two square feet of table for my own units to redeploy into. This sort of tactic, in most cases, because we haven't even discussed terrain, will allow me to avoid most any shooting by my opponent give me an additional 2-3 turns to fire at full effect while remaining out of range. This still accounts for 150+ dead Orks by game end with few to no casualties to my army.

As previously stated I hope the OP continues on his lucky streak. There are several armies out there, including a lot of the MSU that you normally see in smaller games, that won't be able to laydown enough firepower to slow the green tide and will be completely overwhelmed. I know a lot of people will post tailored lists and say "I could beat your list with this one" and I find that extremely annoying. So posted my typical 1250 list and offered my opinion and a bit of warning about what kind of list to watch out for across the table. I really didn't think we'd have to math hammer/ range hammer out the results of a typical game, but it's of no matter. In my initial post you'll notice I never claimed I would win for sure (the dice gods are fickle), but rather I said I'd give the OP a good game in any case. Hope this helps to clarify my position and reasoning behind my posts. Have a blessed day and good luck at the gaming tables.

motherbrain wrote:

I can't fault the maths of the post above, but I did you factor in losses from the Eldar? I mean the orks are not going to sit idle for 5 turns...

At some point a largish number of boys will be in range, firng many innacurate shots, and you will lose a few models.

To say otherwise would beggar belief.

The strategy the OP described was basically to just hide behind LOS blocking terrain on his table side and wait for a last-turn breakout towards the objectives. So... no, the Eldar aren't going to be taking many losses.

Some of the eldar stuff posted in here is off, a WS with such load out is not 120 points, its 130+ squad inside so 195 minimum.

Tables are not infinitely big in all directions and without terrain, so the orks will get cover saves, will have LOS blocked to them sometimes, will be out of range [shuriken cannons are 24" range and scatter laser 36] and if they approach from more than one angle, since theres a lot of them its not hard, you will back to the table edge, and turn 3-4 be assaulted.

Warwalkers are nasty try, but they are slower than wave serpents, have 36" range, so turn 2-3 they are getting shot. 30 boys firing on a squad of warwalkers will glance 3-4 hps a turn on average, so 1-2 dead warwalkers from 1 unit firing.

The "how many orks will die" math is slightly off. Considering only orks 6+ save [which they get versus serpent shields..] and cover from KFF [which they get versus scatter lasers and shuriken cannon] on average 3 wave serpents will kill 92.5 boys in 5 turns of shooting if ALL of the guns are in range, and the boys are always completely in LOS and never get a better cover save than KFF grants. Those 3 serpents+ minimum non upgraded squads inside without hqs attached represent 45% of the eldar army.

Since we are assuming the eldar stuff is firing unmolested lets look at some ork stuff below are 1 30 man shoota boy squads moving 6" and firing 18"

Average round of shooting from 30 boys versus dire avengers iso 60 shots, 20 hits, 13.3 wounds, with 4+ armor save is 6.8 dead dire avengers.

Average round of shooting versus warp spiders is 4.44 dead warp spiders.

Average round of shooting from orks against warwalkers [or rear wave serpent armor] is 60 shots 20 hits, 3.3 glances

But yes on a clear table with no terrain and your always in range of the orks and they never fire at anything you have, you will gun them down very very well.

in regards to the list I posted 3 kannons/weirdboy:

3 Kannons will do .75 hps a turn to a wave serpent with 36" range that has its shields up.
3 Kannons will do 1.26hp a turn to warwalkers considering only glancing hits.

Weirdboy warphead has a 30% chance to teleport with 1 unit of boys by deepstriking, at 1250 points there's not a lot of units to get in the way and cause mishaps, especially since you have ~200 points minimum of your eldar army sitting inside their transports.

30 boys teleporting within 18" of a wave serpent rear armor = 60 shots, 20 hits, 3.3 glances = dead wave serpent in 1 turn. Also there is no a boys mob behind you prolly where your other things like warwalkers wave serpents are.

Of course weirdboy also has a 30% chance to fire a 36" str 10 ap2 melta shot. if your in shuriken cannon range, the weirdboy will be in melta range. That shot auto hits, so if you fired your shields welcome to being also penned at ap2.

On the offchance a boys mob catches a wave serpent in assault. Which will happen, 10 boys is 30 attacks on the charge. Thats 20 hits, thats 3.3 glances... 30 boys is 9.9 glances average, just saying.

if one of the mobs I listed catches a WS thats 29 boys+nob with big choppa. Thats 87 boys attacks and 4 nob attacks, or 57 str 4 hits and 3 str 7 hits. Thats a dead waveserpent, maybe 2 if they were close together and theres a multi charge.. just saying

Because screw tactics, just throw 180 boyz at them for the auto-win. Sounds like a great game.

Hey hey. Fair enough points, bigbaboonass, hope my post didn't come off too stern.

And screw tactics dakkamite? Let's not begrudge a player for being interested in the green wave, while triptide, screamerstar, serpentspam lists are generally high fived, and the skies are too often blackened by drakes and croissants. These are all, I feel, no less point and click. This is 40k, land of cheese and neckbeards.

On topic: I'll agree that you will need some added punch, whether it come in the form of big shootas, or nobs with PKs or big choppas to increase flexibility. I would be 100 behind blaktoof's suggestions, but just from an army theme coherency stance, don't know about those big gunz..

Would love to hear how any recent games with this list have gone

- motherbrain

I very much like the list. There's nothing more fun than watching dozens of models get removed each turn only to be replaced by dozens more. I'd love playing against such a list, it'd be a blast.

However, a competitive Eldar list WILL make you sweat. People don't appreciate how truly obnoxious Eldar shooting is when they're not shooting at MEQ. If a list can kill 60 marines, it can kill 120 boys. My 1250 Eldar list can and will kill 60 marines over 5 turns.

And god forbid you're up against Farsight Crisis spam. Point is, it's not unbeatable, it's a typical rock-paper-scissors deal. People will either cry in despair when they see what they're facing, or they'll make you cry(if you're the crying sort).

I like the look of it. But just wondering if you have ever come up against a blood taloned death co dread or furioso with that list? I imagine that would be a terror unit for you... not that you would ever see such a model in a tournament setting...

Lol If OP gets the lead, he could move slower to conceal his win lol.

Manticores for pieplate spam, chimeras for LOTS of tank shocking lol.

Would suck to play a purifier list with this one.
You could wipe out your own army in 2 turns if your not careful.

Trazyn could also be fun to use against this army.
He could be removing around 1/3 of a unit a turn on his own.

>motherbrain

No offense taken. As I said I love to see Orks win it's always fun and usually funny.

>Blaktoof

You seem a little defensive about some of my posts, and my intent wasn't to offend anyone, just to share some insight. You seem insistent on changing the OP's list to some variant of your own making. However nice this is, it is in no way what I was addressing. But to address some of your concerns (not your list) I'll continue. I completely understand that there will be terrain involved on the battlefields, even stated as much, saying that all of the math hammering/range hammering would be subject to other factors including fickle dice. As far as the deployment goes "Dawn of War" is the only setup that adds any weight to the argument of coming at me at all angles. "Hammer and Anvil" and "Vanguard Strike" only give me even more room to move back and shoot. We'll give Orks the benefit of the doubt and say that it is "Dawn of War" deployment. If I go first I deploy via refused flank. If the Orks spread out across the table to try and flank me on turn 3-4. Then half their army is completely ineffectual for the entire game due to them having to move more than half the length of the board and all I've got to do is focus on the immediate threat then move down the line. If they bunch up on the side that I've deployed on then my entire army takes a turn and relocates to the other side of the battlefield. This is relatively easy to accomplish with the Eldar's speed and proper deployment. I've accomplished this on more than one occasion so I know. If the Orks go first. I set up in a refused flank and accomplish the same result as stated earlier. I do like how you've assumed 30 Orks would get into range to fire unmolested by turn two. Considering that casualties are taken from the front of the units, it's completely reasonable to assume I've added an extra 8" to the distance the Orks have to move to be in range to shoot in the first place. It's also interesting how you've assumed my Dire Avengers would get out of the Wave Serpents for more than clean up work. The only reason I've been assuming the Eldar army unhurt is due to the fact that they out range the Orks. So it is reasonable to assume, through proper deployment, that they will be unhurt for at least 2-3 turns. Your assumption of rear shots on Wave Serpents/Fire Prisms is a little far fetched considering you have no way of getting behind them. The War Walkers will stay out of range for the most part so it's very unlikely you'd be able to bring the full weight of 30 Orks to shoot at them all at once so the numbers are off a bit, but assuming you did they have a 5++ so one of those glances would save anyway. The Warp Spiders are dependent on an average second jump and I'd never commit them to taking on a full unit of Orks by themselves, I mainly use them for clean up. However if I did as you stated they'd still be around and above 25%. To your credit your list is more viable than the OP's, but wasn't being discussed in any of my posts. Have a blessed day and good luck at the tables.

I can see this winning, but only just. and only in objective based scenarios. if you roll purge the alien the your screwed

Another issue would be necron flyer spam.

165 points gets you a basic troop unit in a flyer.
Throw in stormlord for a laugh and things get pretty messy.

So:

Stormlord - 225

5 warriors with nightscythe - 165
5 warriors with nightscythe - 165
5 warriors with nightscythe - 165

Annihilation barge - 90
Doomsday ark - 175
Doomsday ark - 175

1,250 on the nose.

All Ground based vehicles are AV13, rest are flyers.
Decent amount of shooting and great mobility.
Plus lightning from stormlord.

That army is ok for the lols. It'd just die horribly against my list though. It'll die to most armies with a bit of boom in their list. Like 2 Vindicators and a orbital bombardment will hurt those boys.

Venom spam DE could be a really painful match aswell.
Pretty much just sit back and shred the entire army in 2-3 turns at the most.

I would love to play against all of these armies. The Gaurd one sounds particularly ridiculous! I have already fought Necron Flyer spam, but with 4 Croissants, 2 with death beams, and (iirc) all 4 with that chain-lightning business. That game ended in my favor, by far.
BigBaboonAss seems quite confident that his Eldar list could take on my boys, which is something I would love to see. While it depends on table halves, terrain, how/when BigBaboonAss deploys, I would likely keep my army completely in reserve, and run on behind cover, trying to force focus fire shots, all while slowly and carefully slogging forward, attempting to jam objectives on turn 5, making a sea of dudes to prevent contestation. I would likely not even fire a single shot. It would be interesting for sure. BigBaboonAss, if you are ever in Fairbanks, Alaska I would host this tournament.
I also like the comment on Warpheads. I've been toying around with this idea myself. In my mind if you drop a single Mek, 1-2 (at least) squads of boys will be unable to effectively get in the KFF, and the unprotected ones would likely be picked off first, so I figure if I was to replace any meks, why not both? 2 Warpheads would be a really fun way to run it. I may toy with the list and drop some boys for rokkits/big shootas, but as it stands right now I enjoy just the pure fatness of the army.

I almost won a 1000 point grunts only tourney with 90 boys, 9 kannons and a SAG.

Only lost to a white scars bike list with thunderfire cannon.

One of the reasons I lost was I didn't utilize my two deffcoptas well. Should have turbo boosted them to the thunderfire cannon and tied it up


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fun list, I'd try this and see how it works

Big Mek - SAG
120 Shoota Boyz
Big mek's deff dred
3 deff coptas 1 with buzz saw each a separate unit
3 squads of 3 big kannons


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Araenion wrote:
I very much like the list. There's nothing more fun than watching dozens of models get removed each turn only to be replaced by dozens more. I'd love playing against such a list, it'd be a blast.

However, a competitive Eldar list WILL make you sweat. People don't appreciate how truly obnoxious Eldar shooting is when they're not shooting at MEQ. If a list can kill 60 marines, it can kill 120 boys. My 1250 Eldar list can and will kill 60 marines over 5 turns.

And god forbid you're up against Farsight Crisis spam. Point is, it's not unbeatable, it's a typical rock-paper-scissors deal. People will either cry in despair when they see what they're facing, or they'll make you cry(if you're the crying sort).

I wish I could put 60 marines on a table for 1250. Seriously what else do I have left after I put 6 ten man TAC squads?

you realize anyone that has artilery can easily deal with this army. As an ork player i have fielded 150 orks in a 1k tourny and got destroyed. Lets not forget about pyshic abilities as well

 mik339 wrote:
I would love to play against all of these armies. The Gaurd one sounds particularly ridiculous! I have already fought Necron Flyer spam, but with 4 Croissants, 2 with death beams, and (iirc) all 4 with that chain-lightning business. That game ended in my favor, by far.
BigBaboonAss seems quite confident that his Eldar list could take on my boys, which is something I would love to see. While it depends on table halves, terrain, how/when BigBaboonAss deploys, I would likely keep my army completely in reserve, and run on behind cover, trying to force focus fire shots, all while slowly and carefully slogging forward, attempting to jam objectives on turn 5, making a sea of dudes to prevent contestation. I would likely not even fire a single shot. It would be interesting for sure. BigBaboonAss, if you are ever in Fairbanks, Alaska I would host this tournament.
I also like the comment on Warpheads. I've been toying around with this idea myself. In my mind if you drop a single Mek, 1-2 (at least) squads of boys will be unable to effectively get in the KFF, and the unprotected ones would likely be picked off first, so I figure if I was to replace any meks, why not both? 2 Warpheads would be a really fun way to run it. I may toy with the list and drop some boys for rokkits/big shootas, but as it stands right now I enjoy just the pure fatness of the army.

Lel "Keep your army completely in reserve".

A.) This is against the rules. You may keep up to half of your force in reserve, not counting units that MUST start in reserves.
B.) Sure, reserve half of you army so they can focus on a smaller portion of your army first, as well as forcing your remaining boyz to slog on from your table edge. Tactical brilliance.
C.) Do you even 40K?
D.) You're getting closer to something with the weirdboyz, but even in the event that you do roll whatever it is to teleport a squad, do you have any idea how likely a mishap is with a 30 man unit?

Here's a list that would roflstomp all 180 of those boyz that you've won so many tourneys with:

Farseer, Jetbike
Warlock

5 Dire Avengers
5 Dire Avengers
5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent- holofields, Tl scatter laser
Wave Serpent- holofields, Tl scatter laser
Wave Serpent- holofields, Tl scatter laser
10 Guardians w/ BL platform
10 Guardians w/ BL platform

2 Warwalkers w/ TL scatter laser
2 Warwalkers w/ TL scatter laser

This is a basic TAC Eldar list that would mop the floor with 180 boys.
/thread

warwalkers dont get TL anything just a FYI

Tesla.

hmmm....3 vindicators? I feel that 3 vindicators and 3 heldrakes would be a good csm list against this, especially with some allied daemons for Tzeentch flamers and a herald for scriers gaze to get those drakes on the board asap

I mean, this is a spammy list. If your opponent has the counter to it, you're screwed, if he doesn't you may be able to beat him just by killing what he does have to deal with you and then sitting out the rest. This holds true for all spammy lists.

 mik339 wrote:
I would love to play against all of these armies. The Gaurd one sounds particularly ridiculous! I have already fought Necron Flyer spam, but with 4 Croissants, 2 with death beams, and (iirc) all 4 with that chain-lightning business. That game ended in my favor, by far.
BigBaboonAss seems quite confident that his Eldar list could take on my boys, which is something I would love to see. While it depends on table halves, terrain, how/when BigBaboonAss deploys, I would likely keep my army completely in reserve, and run on behind cover, trying to force focus fire shots, all while slowly and carefully slogging forward, attempting to jam objectives on turn 5, making a sea of dudes to prevent contestation. I would likely not even fire a single shot. It would be interesting for sure. BigBaboonAss, if you are ever in Fairbanks, Alaska I would host this tournament.
I also like the comment on Warpheads. I've been toying around with this idea myself. In my mind if you drop a single Mek, 1-2 (at least) squads of boys will be unable to effectively get in the KFF, and the unprotected ones would likely be picked off first, so I figure if I was to replace any meks, why not both? 2 Warpheads would be a really fun way to run it. I may toy with the list and drop some boys for rokkits/big shootas, but as it stands right now I enjoy just the pure fatness of the army.

I don't think I'll ever get to make it to Fairbanks, but the invite is appreciated. I'll return the invite to you with "If you ever make it to Memphis, Tn. give me a call, we'll get this match-up going".

On a side note as astro_nomicon pointed out you've got to deploy half your forces on the table rounding down. Independent characters count toward this so at least four of your units will need to be on the board to start. Also don't forget that a unit can only ever capture one objective at a time, no matter how many they can reach. Astro_nomicon is incorrect about the War Walkers by the way, their Scatter Lasers are not twin-linked, however they can be "Guided" by a Farseer. Anyway I hope to one day see this match-up on the table. Have a blessed day and may the dice be in your favor (Unless you're playing me ).

Its always interesting to see people posting "Undefeated" Lists. They are almost always spam. I for one like bacon, some tasty pork in my mouth, but spam just tastes bad.

That being said, I still think your fethed when you come against broadside spam, walker spam, wave serpent spam, or some Av 14. While this list may be amazing in your local meta, and is good at objectives its not unbeatable by any means, even with a non tailored list.

My venom spam list with 4 splinter cannons per venom between guys inside and venoms. 7 venoms with 25 shots per venom. This will make quick work of these... Night sheilds make your shoota boys 12 inch range. Lulz

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 mik339 wrote:
I would love to play against all of these armies. The Gaurd one sounds particularly ridiculous! I have already fought Necron Flyer spam, but with 4 Croissants, 2 with death beams, and (iirc) all 4 with that chain-lightning business. That game ended in my favor, by far.
BigBaboonAss seems quite confident that his Eldar list could take on my boys, which is something I would love to see. While it depends on table halves, terrain, how/when BigBaboonAss deploys, I would likely keep my army completely in reserve, and run on behind cover, trying to force focus fire shots, all while slowly and carefully slogging forward, attempting to jam objectives on turn 5, making a sea of dudes to prevent contestation. I would likely not even fire a single shot. It would be interesting for sure. BigBaboonAss, if you are ever in Fairbanks, Alaska I would host this tournament.
I also like the comment on Warpheads. I've been toying around with this idea myself. In my mind if you drop a single Mek, 1-2 (at least) squads of boys will be unable to effectively get in the KFF, and the unprotected ones would likely be picked off first, so I figure if I was to replace any meks, why not both? 2 Warpheads would be a really fun way to run it. I may toy with the list and drop some boys for rokkits/big shootas, but as it stands right now I enjoy just the pure fatness of the army.

Lel "Keep your army completely in reserve".

A.) This is against the rules. You may keep up to half of your force in reserve, not counting units that MUST start in reserves.
B.) Sure, reserve half of you army so they can focus on a smaller portion of your army first, as well as forcing your remaining boyz to slog on from your table edge. Tactical brilliance.
C.) Do you even 40K?
D.) You're getting closer to something with the weirdboyz, but even in the event that you do roll whatever it is to teleport a squad, do you have any idea how likely a mishap is with a 30 man unit?

Here's a list that would roflstomp all 180 of those boyz that you've won so many tourneys with:

Farseer, Jetbike
Warlock

5 Dire Avengers
5 Dire Avengers
5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent- holofields, Tl scatter laser
Wave Serpent- holofields, Tl scatter laser
Wave Serpent- holofields, Tl scatter laser
10 Guardians w/ BL platform
10 Guardians w/ BL platform

2 Warwalkers w/ TL scatter laser
2 Warwalkers w/ TL scatter laser

This is a basic TAC Eldar list that would mop the floor with 180 boys.
/thread

Wow, that was rude and arrogant.

Basic TAC list? Right. That statement just seethes of ignorance. You took the most highly competitive units in the Codex and mashed them together favourably in a way that tailors to beating the Ork list here. I very much doubt most players would take Wave Serpent squads and SL War Walkers, and that list is weak. Sure, it mullers infantry, but you've got a grand total of two weapons that can harm AV14, and hardly reliably if they're competent. That list would struggle to kill Riptides, I'd expect a Tau player to lose 1.5 a turn if you fired literally everything, which probably won't happen because you'll lose something before that happens, and you'd have to split your fire.

Seriously, my Mech/2LR/2Vendetta IG would probably present a considerable difficulty to that list, this whole stupid thing people in this thread have going on with specific armies beating the OP's is a joke.

I maybe mistaken but I thought orks gained +1 strength on a charge meaning they have S4 and would need 6s to glance rear armor on a WS with 20-30 orks this shouldn't be a problem glancing a WS to death so no need for a PC nob.

This list is not unbeatable but anyone pushing tailored lists is missing the point. This list played correctly would catch most of the current competitive tourney lists off guard because most will be built to stop Tau/ Eldar.

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Seriously, my Mech/2LR/2Vendetta IG would probably present a considerable difficulty to that list, this whole stupid thing people in this thread have going on with specific armies beating the OP's is a joke.

You're quite arrogant yourself, or at least you come off like it. Here's my 1250 list:

Farseer: Eldar Jetbike, Singing Spear

9 WRJ: 3 Shuriken Cannons

3 WRJ

5 Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent: Holofields, Scatterlasers, Shuriken Cannon

5 Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent: Holofields, Scatterlasers, Shuriken Cannon

6 Swooping Hawks: Exarch

Crimson Hunter

3 War Walkers: 6x Scatterlasers


I'd take this list against anything and anyone at this point level. And it kills 30 Orks per turn on average dice and around 40 per turn with Swooping Hawks and Crimson Hunter on the board.

People defending this list to a fault come off just as rude as those dissing it unreasonably. It's a good list, but anyone with tools to handle it will have absolutely no trouble defeating it, Just like any old monobuild list.

To give the OP credit, he actually never said the list is unbeatable, he said it's undefeated and tournament-winning, which I can believe.

You dont need a tailored list to beat this, there are alot of chaos lists out there that can steam roll this list. Case and point Demon prince w/ black mace and the nurgle pyhic power that reduces toughness and strenght. Easily can wipe a squad a turn in assault. Also any army with barrage wepon can snipe out the Big mekk yeah you can look out sir but they way you compact your army im going to hit 6 guys * how ever many barrage weapons i have.

As for weirdboys gate of infinity i have lost Old Zog once before because i scattered bad.

 Araenion wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Seriously, my Mech/2LR/2Vendetta IG would probably present a considerable difficulty to that list, this whole stupid thing people in this thread have going on with specific armies beating the OP's is a joke.

You're quite arrogant yourself, or at least you come off like it. Here's my 1250 list:

Farseer: Eldar Jetbike, Singing Spear

9 WRJ: 3 Shuriken Cannons

3 WRJ

5 Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent: Holofields, Scatterlasers, Shuriken Cannon

5 Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent: Holofields, Scatterlasers, Shuriken Cannon

6 Swooping Hawks: Exarch

Crimson Hunter

3 War Walkers: 6x Scatterlasers


I'd take this list against anything and anyone at this point level. And it kills 30 Orks per turn on average dice and around 40 per turn with Swooping Hawks and Crimson Hunter on the board.

People defending this list to a fault come off just as rude as those dissing it unreasonably. It's a good list, but anyone with tools to handle it will have absolutely no trouble defeating it, Just like any old monobuild list.

To give the OP credit, he actually never said the list is unbeatable, he said it's undefeated and tournament-winning, which I can believe.

You would really take that Eldar list against ANYTHING and EVERYONE? I like watching people make broad sweeping statements because I guarantee you that if you knew your opponent was bringing AV13-14 spam you wouldn't bring that list. You have the Crimson Hunter (Bright Lances I assume?) Which comes on turn two and at most gets what? 3 shots? So at your VERY VERY best possible game, you get 15 bright lance shots of which, 5 miss, and like 6 of the remaining 10 fail to do anything? That's one dead Land Raider or Leman Russ. Maybe. The only other thing that can hurt AV 13 is the Serpent shield which at it's VERY best will get 42 (or 84 for two) shots in a game of which, most of them will do nothing considering you need a 6 to glance or you won't be able to hurt them at all if they brought an AV14 vehicle.

And you may complain "WELL THAT WON'T EVER HAPPEN CUZ DUH METUH" let me explain to you that when you play a 4th or 5th edition codex your only viable tactic is to say "feth the meta" and bring 3 Land Raiders at 1250 pts or something crazy like that. Blood angels can do this easily and each of them will have a scoring unit inside (much like your Dire Avengers squads) and Orks can do this with Battlewagons if they're careful and Imperial Guard can bring Leman Russes and Space Wolves will be hard pressed to perform such a feat but they could do it as well though they're more likely to just shove drop pods and wolf cavalry down your throat.

We can play Rock papers scissors hammer all night. My point is: don't say "well this is the list I ALWAYS bring and it would wipe the table with your list!" Because I may very well run Trilando at 1250 and I could say "well this is my list I ALWAYS run and I could wipe the table with your list!" And on and on and on and you realize how stupid this gets and how stupid it sounds? If not you should probably rethink your ideas of positive human interaction because that kind of conversation doesn't fall into that category.

There are a lot of different lists, and a lot of different armies, and with allies the equation is more complicated.

Anyone can post any list, and anyone can build a list to try and counter it.

In essence this list is a counter list, its a counter to lists like eldar/tau and armies that are tailoring to beat eldar/tau lists, making it an "anti-meta" list for many areas metas.

Can you build an army to beat it? Sure.

If you look at many armies played in tournmanets which are "tac" but focus on anti tau anti eldar, this list would be a nightmare for most of those lists to face. Simply because the tools you take to stop "elite" expensive non horde armies are not the tools you use to stop a horde army usually.